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Wedges: Move on to CB wedges?


Rbsiedsc

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I have gamed the original RTX zipcore tour racks for the last 4 years and love them. Sadly I believe they are to the point where spin retention is on the out, especially with playing in damp morning dew. I am looking to get new wedges. I have a great offer on ebay for a CBX zipcore SW head still in plastic that I could just swap the head with my current 54. I am also trying to get a 58* zipcore (either CBX-like or blade) as a replacement. However, I am also on the fence if I should go the DTC route and get 2 Sub70 wedges that I could match with the 8i spinner with my actual shaft (vs the DG spinner in my wedges now). Anyways, I guess I am asking multiple questions. 

 

People going from blade wedges to CB like wedges, are you much happier?

Should i change things up and freq match my wedges to my iron set with the same shaft family?

DTC vs OEMs, i know there are several threads bout this. Basically, anyone move from Cleveland wedges to Sub70 and are happy?

 

Edit: My short game is probably the strongest part of my game at the moment and since I started tracking with Shotsope (2022) I have improved from -4 SG vs a 15 cap to 0.04 SG. I presume a CB wedge likely can help bump me up as sometimes I do have a fat miss that comes up just short.

Edited by Rbsiedsc
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Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with KBS TD Cat 4 44.5" 

4w: '22 Rogue ST LS 16.5  Tensei AV Blue 75x

7w: '22 Callaway Apex UW 21 80s MMT

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH 95

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long MOI matched

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid 

Putter: DF2.1 35"69* in blue

Ball: Snell Prime 4.0

 

 

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I'm only 1 round into my new Sub70's (48/52/56/60) so don't take this for full face value, came from RTX zipcores. Reason i switched was to get in the right shaft and didnt want to spend retail on them. I ordered the four heads and colored ferrules from Sub70 and got them all put together over the weekend. Spin was there, feel was solid yet soft, and they look fantastic. 

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The advantage of blade wedges is the variety of different grinds out there to seemingly meet every course condition.

The more I practice the less important it is to have a particular wedge in my  hands.

 

A lot of short game is confidence.  I've always been confident I could get out of the bunker in one swing if I had a good lie in nice fluffy grass.

With experince I having a nice lie in the bunker is less important as well! 

Especially since I don't hit the ball hard enough to get those nasty fried egg lies!

 

Rolling the ball into a low quaity bunker rarely leads to a nasty lie.  The kind not seen on TV we mere motals play. Sometimes the ball will continue rolling itself out of the bunker!!!

 

Edited by ShortGolfer
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2 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

I have gamed the original RTX zipcore tour racks for the last 4 years and love them. Sadly I believe they are to the point where spin retention is on the out, especially with playing in damp morning dew. I am looking to get new wedges. I have a great offer on ebay for a CBX zipcore SW head still in plastic that I could just swap the head with my current 54. I am also trying to get a 58* zipcore (either CBX-like or blade) as a replacement. However, I am also on the fence if I should go the DTC route and get 2 Sub70 wedges that I could match with the 8i spinner with my actual shaft (vs the DG spinner in my wedges now). Anyways, I guess I am asking multiple questions. 

 

People going from blade wedges to CB like wedges, are you much happier?

Should i change things up and freq match my wedges to my iron set with the same shaft family?

DTC vs OEMs, i know there are several threads bout this. Basically, anyone move from Cleveland wedges to Sub70 and are happy?

 

Edit: My short game is probably the strongest part of my game at the moment and since I started tracking with Shotsope (2022) I have improved from -4 SG vs a 15 cap to 0.04 SG. I presume a CB wedge likely can help bump me up as sometimes I do have a fat miss that comes up just short.

I have played all Vokey wedges for years and just recently switched to Mizuno S23 52* and 56* wedges that are engineered to move the CG much closer to the center of the clubface and I couldn't be happier. My distance control has improved and after practicing chipping a few sessions, my short game has vastly improved. I wouldn't go back to the Vokeys at this point, although I am still gaming the Vokey 60*

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I just got a Mizuno T24 54/8D as my Sand Wedge that I can use for everything else if I have to.  54* is a sweet spot for my slow swing speed.

Glad I waited as this wedge is marked like my other wedges. Something new for Mizuno. Not being able to see the markings would bother me.

Edited by ShortGolfer
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Being cavity back really isnt going to help you much at all with wedges. Has nothing to do with a fat miss- that would be grind and bounce angle. As far as matching to your set, I think it depends on the use. A lot of full swings? Then yes makes sense. Alot of half swings and partials? No not really.

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I was looking to get a club I was a little more comfortable hitting 100-105 yards. For me, that's my sand wedge slot. I wanted to get something forged but also cavity back so that led me to the JDM realm. Ended up going with a DJ-5 from Fourteen. Went with a 52* and had it bent to 54* since it has a low bounce and to my eye needed some of the offset taken out.

Results so far are promising! Only one round under my belt but a memorable shot. Had a tricky 100 yard forced carry Par 3 to a tucked flag and nearly dunked it. Spin was pretty good but the greens were solid rock so ended up roughly 18 feet for my birdie.

I guess the most important part about the shot is that it was not struck well. I caught it real thin. I have to imagine that if I were of to had my traditional bladed wedge in the bag, I would have probably been chipping from way off the back of the green, if not dropping another ball on the teebox to play 3 because I skulled my first one into the hazard I was trying to carry. Pretty much the exact situation I was hoping to get help with and it worked out famously.

Bonus: Shipping from eBay (Golf Partner) was shockingly fast, like 2 days to California from time I ordered. Great condition stuff on there marked as average (similar to the good ole callaway pre-owned grading method). If success continues with the DJ-5, I'll probably going to start the hunt for a Fourteen RM-Alpha in a 58* to round out the set. 

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4 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

I have gamed the original RTX zipcore tour racks for the last 4 years and love them. Sadly I believe they are to the point where spin retention is on the out, especially with playing in damp morning dew. I am looking to get new wedges. I have a great offer on ebay for a CBX zipcore SW head still in plastic that I could just swap the head with my current 54. I am also trying to get a 58* zipcore (either CBX-like or blade) as a replacement. However, I am also on the fence if I should go the DTC route and get 2 Sub70 wedges that I could match with the 8i spinner with my actual shaft (vs the DG spinner in my wedges now). Anyways, I guess I am asking multiple questions. 

 

People going from blade wedges to CB like wedges, are you much happier?

Should i change things up and freq match my wedges to my iron set with the same shaft family?

DTC vs OEMs, i know there are several threads bout this. Basically, anyone move from Cleveland wedges to Sub70 and are happy?

 

Edit: My short game is probably the strongest part of my game at the moment and since I started tracking with Shotsope (2022) I have improved from -4 SG vs a 15 cap to 0.04 SG. I presume a CB wedge likely can help bump me up as sometimes I do have a fat miss that comes up just short.

The CBX Zip and S23 wedges are really good. There are several tests showing these have a tighter shot area, and less deviation on launch, spin, and carry distance. The drop off from off center hits perform much better. 
 

 

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TaylorMade Sim Max 9* @ 7* Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg
Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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CBX is a great wedge.  I've gone from old school CB11's, to CBX, now to RTX6.  Honestly the biggest difference with each change is the new grooves.

 

The CBX has very slightly more forgiveness, and the RTX has slightly better feel.  Nothing to really sway me one way or the other.

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13 hours ago, GoldenAges said:

I have played all Vokey wedges for years and just recently switched to Mizuno S23 52* and 56* wedges that are engineered to move the CG much closer to the center of the clubface and I couldn't be happier. My distance control has improved and after practicing chipping a few sessions, my short game has vastly improved. I wouldn't go back to the Vokeys at this point, although I am still gaming the Vokey 60*

 

The S23's are great. I don't see myself ever going back to Vokeys either.

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I'm using my second set of CBX's.  Outstanding control and forgiveness.  I play 50/54/58 and they are so easy to hit that sometimes it looks like cheating, especially longer pitches and chipping.  Slightly off the sweetspot distance is almost the same.  The only shot harder to control with those wedges is the no sand bunker because of bounce.

 

Overall these are superforgiving and versatile wedges.  They also match your set of irons if you game CB's or GI irons.  If the short game is not a problem for you, you may pick from a wider range of options.  

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12 hours ago, hammergolf said:

The CBX Zip and S23 wedges are really good. There are several tests showing these have a tighter shot area, and less deviation on launch, spin, and carry distance. The drop off from off center hits perform much better. 
 

 

Thanks. That’s an awesome video. The thing that worries me slightly on the s23 ( which I am sold on) is the relatively less bounce on them. My 54 is 12° and 58 is 10°. The way I configured the wedges on 2nd swing, both would be 8° but with different grinds (d grind on 54 and C grind on 58). 

Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with KBS TD Cat 4 44.5" 

4w: '22 Rogue ST LS 16.5  Tensei AV Blue 75x

7w: '22 Callaway Apex UW 21 80s MMT

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH 95

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long MOI matched

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid 

Putter: DF2.1 35"69* in blue

Ball: Snell Prime 4.0

 

 

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Anyone try this to combat chipping . . .  ahem . . . I don’t want to use the word.  
 

A year or so back, I started getting a bit too steep with my chips that caused me to dig the cub into the ground. Now, I’m so scared of digging that I decelerate and lift. I either skull the chip or skip the leading edge just after contact. I have more “double hits” than clean chips. I know it is a technique issue, but the poor technique is caused by the fear of digging. I need a wedge that won’t allow the leading edge to get stuck in the ground. Wondering if these high bounce, wide sole CB options might be the trick. 
 

Tell me more about the s23s, too please. I have some Pro 221s in the bag and love them. I hit my irons really well. I just can’t chip!!!!

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1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Thanks. That’s an awesome video. The thing that worries me slightly on the s23 ( which I am sold on) is the relatively less bounce on them. My 54 is 12° and 58 is 10°. The way I configured the wedges on 2nd swing, both would be 8° but with different grinds (d grind on 54 and C grind on 58). 

Yeah since Mizuno uses one stock head then adjusts the lofts doesn’t work for everyone. However, I’ve found that they play like they have more bounce than what is shown. 

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Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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1 minute ago, hammergolf said:

Yeah since Mizuno uses one stock head then adjusts the lofts doesn’t work for everyone. However, I’ve found that they play like they have more bounce than what is shown. 

I see you play the CBX zipcores. (or you didn't update your sig). Which between them and the S23 did you prefer? I love the copper finish of the S23,

Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with KBS TD Cat 4 44.5" 

4w: '22 Rogue ST LS 16.5  Tensei AV Blue 75x

7w: '22 Callaway Apex UW 21 80s MMT

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH 95

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long MOI matched

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid 

Putter: DF2.1 35"69* in blue

Ball: Snell Prime 4.0

 

 

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Just now, Rbsiedsc said:

I see you play the CBX zipcores. (or you didn't update your sig). Which between them and the S23 did you prefer? I love the copper finish of the S23,

I LOVE my CBX Zips. They do everything well for me so I never considered the S23s. However, if I was looking for new wedges they would definitely be in consideration.

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TaylorMade Sim Max 9* @ 7* Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg
Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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26 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

I LOVE my CBX Zips. They do everything well for me so I never considered the S23s. However, if I was looking for new wedges they would definitely be in consideration.

cool. Thanks. Now, I just need to figure out do i try and get heads and swap in my current setup (which were part of the MOI matching to my irons), or do I try the8i spinner trick and keep the wedges at the same length as my current ones. My irons are soft stepped 1x, So my current GW (set) has a PW (9i) shaft KBS 120s. So I think I should go 7i in XS KBS tour if I want a different GW and then same 7i in SW and LW since I use those for partial swings.

Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with KBS TD Cat 4 44.5" 

4w: '22 Rogue ST LS 16.5  Tensei AV Blue 75x

7w: '22 Callaway Apex UW 21 80s MMT

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH 95

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long MOI matched

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid 

Putter: DF2.1 35"69* in blue

Ball: Snell Prime 4.0

 

 

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Just now, dlow206 said:

this thread is not good for me, making me ponder my life choices in wedges. on any given day, i may be thinking about purchasing anything from CBX 4s to the new Miura wedges... Once in a while considering buying a chipper.

are you still rocking the S23?

Driver: Callaway Epic Max LS with KBS TD Cat 4 44.5" 

4w: '22 Rogue ST LS 16.5  Tensei AV Blue 75x

7w: '22 Callaway Apex UW 21 80s MMT

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH 95

4-AW: PXG OG 0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long MOI matched

Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore 54 Full/58 Mid 

Putter: DF2.1 35"69* in blue

Ball: Snell Prime 4.0

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

cool. Thanks. Now, I just need to figure out do i try and get heads and swap in my current setup (which were part of the MOI matching to my irons), or do I try the8i spinner trick and keep the wedges at the same length as my current ones. My irons are soft stepped 1x, So my current GW (set) has a PW (9i) shaft KBS 120s. So I think I should go 7i in XS KBS tour if I want a different GW and then same 7i in SW and LW since I use those for partial swings.

If you like your wedge shaft feel, I would just set up new wedges the same.

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Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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A couple of thoughts...

 

My understanding is that with the size of the clubhead on wedges and the amount of loft that they have, MOI differences and the effect on forgiveness is pretty minimal.  So, you're best off picking a wedge based on whatever gives you the confidence you need to hit good shots, whether that be looks, feel, grinds, sole width, etc.

 

Regarding that "best wedge" video, I'd say it is basically useless.  There are so many things wrong with it that I don't feel like taking the time to go into all of them, but here's the big one: they had one person test 26 different wedges in one day and he was hitting off of a mat, indoors, using 3/4 swings.  I don't know about you, but I think most people would have a hard time hitting hundreds of 3/4 shots with any kind of consistency in their delivery, so variations in wedge performance is probably as much due to the fact that a human was hitting shots as anything else.

 

In their review they say that most golfers should use CB wedges because we're too dumb to figure out all of the bounce and grind options offered with blade wedges, but then say that everyone should be using the wedge fitting apps from PING or Titleist to figure out what wedges to use, even though those companies have tons of loft and grind options and don't offer CB wedges.

 

Lastly, their recommendations make no sense given their "data" which makes me think they realize their data is crap.  For example, their top recommendation (https://www.todays-golfer.com/equipment/best/wedges/) is the CBX 4 and they talk like CB wedges are way better than blade wedges, but the data for the RTX6 is remarkably similar to the CBX 4, so it shouldn't be ranked 9th.  The Mizuno S23 (a "CB" offering) has the best shot area and carry distance drop off, but it is only their 8th choice?  On the other hand, Vokey, which in their tests has some of the worst performance numbers, is their #2 choice?  It shouldn't even rank in the top 10 based on the data they provide.  Or, at the very least, the More MOD 1 (https://moregolf.com/mod-wedges/) should have been ranked similarly.

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I like CBX Zipcore. 

I play a 44 (@43*) & 48 CBX Zipcore.  
I also play ES-21 54w & 58. 


I tried putting a 54 CBX Zipcore in play but I liked the Mizuno better. 
 

CBX Zipcore is a great full swing club but can be a little jumpy on touch shots compared to others. 
 

I would definitely replace my ES-21 wedges with S-23. The ES-21 wedges give good results all over the face. 

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4 hours ago, Opie Taylor said:

If you get a little wristy with wedges you may not like the wider sole. 
 

Also if you are a feel player you lose some feel with CB wedges. 

The feel part is not true. The CBX is made the same material as the RTX, and the S23 is forged from the same material as the T24 wedges……

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Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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      Kevin Streelman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2024 John Deere Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #3
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Jason Day - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Josh Teater - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Michael Thorbjornsen - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      C.T. Pan - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Albertson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Seung Yul Noh - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Blake Hathcoat - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jimmy Stanger - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Cole Sherwood - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Larson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bill Haas - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Tommy "2 Gloves" Gainey WITB – 2024 John Deere Classic
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Garrick Higgo - 2 Aretera shafts in the bag - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jhonattan Vegas' custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      2 new Super Stroke Marvel comics grips - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag blade putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag Golf - Joe Dirt covers - 2024 John Deere Classic
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Nate Lashley - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Hayden Springer - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Jackson Koivun - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Callum Tarren - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
      Luke Clanton - WITB - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jason Dufner's custom 3-D printed Cobra putter - 2024 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 11 replies

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