Driver face surface affect ball flight and spin?

[Ward]

907 D2

Everyone complains about the spin that the D2 puts on the ball, and I'm not sure about my spin figures, but my ball goes SKY HIGH. even with a stiff shaft and supposed 9.5 loft. The face on this driver is a very rough brushed face, as opposed to the face on the TM SQ which is a pretty smooth surface. Does this have any effect on how the ball compresses and leaves the face of the driver? I know that I should have gotten a tip stiff shaft, but this is just annoying now because I am probably leaving 20+ yds carry on the table.

[TheCapedAvenger]

I know that, at some point, tiger's driver was buffed vertically instead of horizontally to supposedly make the ball have more sidespin and less backspin. Keyword there is "supposedly", because you're running a very sticky ball into a very hard surface fast enough to make it deform pretty badly, so I'm pretty sure that face texture matters very little.

 

Maybe some vaseline on the face, las vegas gambling style?

[Ward]

I know that, at some point, tiger's driver was buffed vertically instead of horizontally to supposedly make the ball have more sidespin and less backspin. Keyword there is "supposedly", because you're running a very sticky ball into a very hard surface fast enough to make it deform pretty badly, so I'm pretty sure that face texture matters very little.

 

Maybe some vaseline on the face, las vegas gambling style?

 

 

I would think that a ball that stays on the face longer would be affected enough to alter spin figures. I'm sure that a shaft change or swing change is 100x more important for this issue.

[hoganfan924]

Actually, this has some merit and I think it is one of the few remaining areas left for golf club design research to explore, given the USGA limits on clubhead design. I think higher lofts with low friction coatings is probably something that the manufacturers are already experimenting with.

[hbear]

point is the ball is only on the driver face for such a short time it won't matter as much....not like the ball "runs" up the face ala wedges.

 

I'd look more towards a swing issue....coming into the ball too steep?

[TheCapedAvenger]

It's not a question of how much it's on the face so much as ball deformation and surface area.

 

When a ball deforms a lot and a lot of it's surface area is on the face, it seems like the face surface would matter less because you've got more "grip" in both directions.

 

It probably also matters more on balls with harder covers than softer ones, because they wouldn't "grip" a smooth face as well as a softer cover.

[KMeloney]

If you hadn't mentioned the D2 in this thread, I'd have thought that you could be on to something here... And you could be... But I, too, had crazy spin issues with the D2, in 9.5° and 8.5° lofts, and with "lower launching" shafts. I WAS leaving yards on the table -- and more than 20.

 

Now, could the roughness of the D2's face be such that it's worse than most other clubs', and it IS a spin-promoter? Maybe. But, I'd think that it's more than that, and that this head does just spin a ton.

 

/< / /2 /<

[SoPure92]

This is odd, Im a fairly high-spin player and I never had spin problems with the 907D2 and 907D4 (yes it was an amazing club, but fairly difficult to hit really pure every time). I think it must be a shaft or swing problem. Have your specs checked out.

[ej002]

I think there is merit. Aside from head design, I think the Titleist has a "grainy" face. My 905 seems rough compared to my R7 which seem very very smooth. I know that that the heads are designed for different flights, but I cant help but think that the grain has something to do with it.

[chunker]

I found this

"Understand, this is only true of clubs lofted at 20 degrees or under. So, what does this mean to the average golfer? The application would be this, if you want more back spin with your driver, fairway driver, or low lofted irons, buff the faces smooth. There is no USGA rule against a smooth face. The USGA is only concerned with how rough the face may be. If you do not want as much backspin created with your low lofted clubs be sure the face does not become worn smooth. If they are worn have them sand blasted so they are cosmetically rough again. I say cosmetically rough, because the USGA states that the roughness of a face can only be for cosmetic purposes and not to impart spin"

 

http://www.patryangolf.com/2006/pat_ryan_g...face_driver.htm

 

Basically states that the smoother the face of the driver, the more backspin.

[stevesxm]

I found this

"Understand, this is only true of clubs lofted at 20 degrees or under. So, what does this mean to the average golfer? The application would be this, if you want more back spin with your driver, fairway driver, or low lofted irons, buff the faces smooth. There is no USGA rule against a smooth face. The USGA is only concerned with how rough the face may be. If you do not want as much backspin created with your low lofted clubs be sure the face does not become worn smooth. If they are worn have them sand blasted so they are cosmetically rough again. I say cosmetically rough, because the USGA states that the roughness of a face can only be for cosmetic purposes and not to impart spin"

 

http://www.patryangolf.com/2006/pat_ryan_g...face_driver.htm

 

Basically states that the smoother the face of the driver, the more backspin.

 

 

that may be what he says but there is no way that that is true. think about it. aside from what you would intuitively know to be true, people spend half their lives getting the chrome and slippery finishes off their wedges... why do you think that is ? the force and contact area of a driver face on the ball is such that any change in surface finish will give a significant chage... both direction of the grain and the final finish. and rougher will give you more spin.

[hbear]

Perhaps you should actually read the article...

 

“For lofts under 20 degrees, the period of contact between the ball and the club face can be divided into two stages. During the first stage of contact the ball is compressed on the club face, making the ball stick to the club surface. As it compresses, the ball experiences some deformation as the loft of the club causes the ball’s center of gravity to move up the club face. As the ball tends to move upwards, the club exerts a downward frictional force on the ball surface, creating the ball rotation that becomes backspin. Due to the large normal force at impact resulting from the relatively low loft angle, this frictional force is independent of the surface roughness of the club face. This backspin increases until, at the end of the period, the ball experiences such a large backspin that its surface in contact with the club actually starts to move downward.”

 

Art went on to explain, “During the second contact period, while the ball surface is moving downward, the club exerts an upward frictional force on the ball. This upward force acts against the direction of the ball’s backspin, reducing the overall spin with which the ball leaves the club face. Where the downward force experienced during the first stage was independent of the surface properties of the club face, the upward force during the second stage is entirely related to the roughness of the face material. This is because the forces acting on the ball at this time cause it to slide along the club face instead of sticking.”

 

This means that the face roughness, or coefficient of friction, does not contribute to the backspin produced during stage 1 but contributes significantly to the forces acting against backspin in stage 2. So, a rough surface, such as rough steel, retards the overall spin of the ball more than a lower friction material such as Teflon. Therefore the smoother surface generates greater backspin.

 

At higher lofts, such as over 40 degrees, the nature of the contact period changes. The ball experiences only the first stage of contact, except this time the increased loft means that the ball never sticks to the club face. Instead, it only experiences a sliding up the club surface. This means that the downward frictional force exerted on the ball is proportional to the surface roughness; a rougher club face creates a larger downward force, resulting in increased backspin.

 

Many individuals attending the seminar questioned the study stating the results were questionable at best and the study needed to be replicated. That is when Frank Thomas, Technical Director for the USGA stated it had been replicated and was absolutely true. After his comments the attitude in the room changed from disbelief to trying to understand the research better.

 

Interesting for sure.

[Mheav]

That is hard to believe, but if it is true then I am glad that the 907D2 doesn't have a smooth face because we would back it up in the fairway!!!!

[Sid Vicious]

So, if you can't cut groves into a titanium face because it will weaken, what will happen if you sandblast the face?