Traveling to Phoenix.....Some course info for you

[Vikingdrewby]

most people regard Saguaro as better than Cholla, fyi.

[az2au]

Honestly, Cholla kinda sucks. Repetitive and uninteresting design.

[azgolfer44]

I respect your opinion on Arizona golf, but it definitely does not suck. I think every hole out there is interesting. Par 5's have a ton of strategy options. Changes in elevation. I could play there everyday and not get sick of it. Also, there is a really good variety of tees.

[az2au]

No problem at all. I do not find it interesting in the least but I realize there’s always some level of subjectivity in course rankings. The first couple of times I played it I thought it was pretty good but over time I just felt that it gets redundant and lacks a lot of strategy. I will give them credit for fixing 8. It used to be a terrible hole and now it is at least Ok.

[AzSuperHack76]

Speaking of Panks. I have never played Raven until today. One of the few courses I haven’t played for some odd reason. Thought it was a fun and very playable layout. The conditions of the fairways were some of the best summer conditions I’ve played, super lush and green, some soggy spots but nothing crazy. Greens were thin but rolling well and were fast. Overall I enjoyed it. Fun course to play!

[SilverBullets]

cholla has the worst collection of par 5’s on any course I have played. All of them are forced and contrived. They provide basically 1 way to play them.

Now with that said, I think Cholla has a really interesting collection of par 4’s. I actually think a better collection of par 4’s than saguaro (even though I like saguaro more overall).

I think cholla gets too much flak on here.

[cbbaron]

Agree on your assessment like the par 3s as well but the 5s are stupid plus I score better on Cholla

[azgolfer44]

There are several options on hole 2, especially on the layup. 8 is better than before but pretty tough to get home in 2. You can definitely get home

on 2 on 10 and 17 depending on how aggressive you want to be off the tee. I actually really like them except 8, but 8 is one of the prettiest holes in Arizona hitting into a neat canyon. All 4 can definitely be birdied but require exacting shots.

[cbbaron]

Have to say I like 14-18 as finishing holes

[az2au]

So, I thought I'd at least justify my comments about Cholla as I don't want to just say it sucks without saying why. I'll go ahead and skip the par 5s and 3s as I think we all mostly agree there. The 3s are pretty good. The 5s, as a collection, are about as bad as could be done with the land available (which always kills a course for me). All comments are about the back tees.

1-Terrible hole of little interest that theoretically should be a good risk/reward hole. Instead it is too wide near the green and as the opening hole fails in the mission of being a place people will try something so it is mostly just a layup/wedge for a lot of people

4-Fine, no issue there

6-Again, fine but a bit of paint by numbers hole. Drive it over the right bunkers to the widest part of the fairway and then hit a wedge

7-Split fairway with no purpose. It is a 350 yard hole so why bother. I did once see a buddy of mine putt into the bunker but he's bad so other than comedy that's all I have for that hole.

9-Oh look, it is a split fairway but at least this one requires you to hit a shot. Don't care for this hole either but it is followed with yet another split fairway at 10

12-Like this hole

13-Stop me if you heard this before but it is a par 4 with something in the middle of the FW...

15-No problem here either, actually think this may be my favorite hole on the course because it often plays downwind and gives you a reason to go after it

16-It is a brute. No real problem here but don't think it is great because there's no option to be aggressive from the back tees and the fairway is massive so it just requires a bit of length and you're fine. I do remember thinking this was one of the better greens on the course though

18-And let's close with another "risk/reward" hole where's there's really very little risk and very little reward. It isn't terrible but I don't love it either because it doesn't really serve a purpose of what it should.

OK, that's my problem with the course and why I find it a bit repetitive. The par 5s are not very good, I'm not big on 5 of the 10 par 4s but I do think the par 3s, especially 3 are pretty good (and, yes, I actually like 11 too). Perhaps my "kinda sucks" isn't fair but I wouldn't put it in the top 30 or so of the courses in the Valley and also don't think it would be in my top 15 public. Sagurao, OTOH is easily in the top 10. I think the variety in the design and the shot options along with the green contours make it one of the better courses in the state.

 

 

[cbbaron]

Drove 15 once and 4 putted pin was in front I was back of green must of been at least 100 foot eagle putt

[SilverBullets]

2 and 8 are among the short list of worst designed par 5’s I have played.

[puttnforthe8]

Move to pinned!

[asianplow]

I understand it's a pretty crappy time to play, but still want to try to get a round in. I'm coming out later this week to Scottsdale and thinking about getting a round in on Friday. Any suggestions? Just looking at some courses, it looks like I can book times at TPC Champions, Grayhawk Talon (says Raptor also, but it says they open on the 25th), WeKoPa Cholla (looks to be first day open), and Troon North (both courses). 

[Kuhndogg8]

58 minutes ago, asianplow said:

I understand it's a pretty crappy time to play, but still want to try to get a round in. I'm coming out later this week to Scottsdale and thinking about getting a round in on Friday. Any suggestions? Just looking at some courses, it looks like I can book times at TPC Champions, Grayhawk Talon (says Raptor also, but it says they open on the 25th), WeKoPa Cholla (looks to be first day open), and Troon North (both courses). 

 

Talon's reopen was the earliest out of that list, with October 4th.  Friday gets you almost 3 weeks out.  Probably still not great, but as you said, crappy time to play.  I'd base my criteria on that - whoever is the furthest out from their reopen, but it'll probably still be wet and likely CPO.

[asianplow]

15 minutes ago, Kuhndogg8 said:

 

Talon's reopen was the earliest out of that list, with October 4th.  Friday gets you almost 3 weeks out.  Probably still not great, but as you said, crappy time to play.  I'd base my criteria on that - whoever is the furthest out from their reopen, but it'll probably still be wet and likely CPO.

Just tracked down reopening dates posted in one of the threads here.

 

Grayhawk Talon (10/4)

TPC Scottsdale Champions (10/4)

Troon North Pinnacle (10/8)

Kierland Ironwood (9/28)

 

Based off longest since open, Kierland Ironwood?

[Kuhndogg8]

8 minutes ago, asianplow said:

Just tracked down reopening dates posted in one of the threads here.

 

Grayhawk Talon (10/4)

TPC Scottsdale Champions (10/4)

Troon North Pinnacle (10/8)

Kierland Ironwood (9/28)

 

Based off longest since open, Kierland Ironwood?

 

Kierland has 3 9's, so that's just a 9 and why that one has such an early re-opening date. 

[asianplow]

1 minute ago, Kuhndogg8 said:

 

Kierland has 3 9's, so that's just a 9 and why that one has such an early re-opening date. 

Gotcha. Didn't realize that, thanks! Just working down a list of courses of overseeding schedules.

 

So between Grayhawk Talon and TPC Champions. I've only played Raptor and Stadium. On a good day, which way would you go?

[Kuhndogg8]

7 minutes ago, asianplow said:

Gotcha. Didn't realize that, thanks! Just working down a list of courses of overseeding schedules.

 

So between Grayhawk Talon and TPC Champions. I've only played Raptor and Stadium. On a good day, which way would you go?

 

Talon 8 out of 10.

[asianplow]

28 minutes ago, Kuhndogg8 said:

 

Talon 8 out of 10.

Awesome. Booked! Thanks for your help!

[Hooded7]

This is a great pin, by the way.

 

We're taking our first trip out there the first week of November (staying near Troon North).  I've booked tee times at the following locations based on overseeding schedules and recommendations (seems everyone has opinions...)

 

Day 1 - Short Course at Mountain Shadows

Day 2 - Troon Monument

Day 2 - Grayhawk Talon

Day 3 - TPC Champions

Day 3 - TPC Stadium

Day 4 - Legend Trail

 

I tried to book courses with the most recovery time from overseeding.  Unfortunately that knocks a lot of quality courses off. 

 

TPC Stadium is the only late overseed, but we want to play a course we've seen so much on TV.  I've heard good things about Sunridge Canyon as well, and they overseed early too.  Should we substitute one in our schedule?  What about a Boulders course?  Quintero?  Am I considering overseeding too much?

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hooded7

[puttnforthe8]

5 hours ago, Hooded7 said:

This is a great pin, by the way.

 

We're taking our first trip out there the first week of November (staying near Troon North).  I've booked tee times at the following locations based on overseeding schedules and recommendations (seems everyone has opinions...)

 

Day 1 - Short Course at Mountain Shadows

Day 2 - Troon Monument

Day 2 - Grayhawk Talon

Day 3 - TPC Champions

Day 3 - TPC Stadium

Day 4 - Legend Trail

 

I tried to book courses with the most recovery time from overseeding.  Unfortunately that knocks a lot of quality courses off. 

 

TPC Stadium is the only late overseed, but we want to play a course we've seen so much on TV.  I've heard good things about Sunridge Canyon as well, and they overseed early too.  Should we substitute one in our schedule?  What about a Boulders course?  Quintero?  Am I considering overseeding too much?

No Sunridge, Not really on Boulders, but for out of towners, maybe.  For out of towners Quintero - YES.  You will prefer Quintero over Champions, Legend Trail and even Monument.  

 

No - you must consider overseed - you need to be far enough out to at least enjoy playing.  You don't want to put on greens running 6 or plugged balls in the fairway.  Etc.

5 hours ago, Hooded7 said:

 

 

[Hooded7]

Thanks for the response.

 

Unfortunately, I think the drive to Quintero may kill our 36 hole day since the days are short.  They overseed later than our selections as well.

 

I really don't know much about Legend Trail.  Do you have an opinion on that course?

 

Also, as far as 19th holes go, which is better...Troon or Grayhawk?  

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hooded7

[puttnforthe8]

15 minutes ago, Hooded7 said:

Thanks for the response.

 

Unfortunately, I think the drive to Quintero may kill our 36 hole day since the days are short.  They overseed later than our selections as well.

 

I really don't know much about Legend Trail.  Do you have an opinion on that course?

 

Also, as far as 19th holes go, which is better...Troon or Grayhawk?  

Legend is a very good course, just not as scenic and in a housing community.  Plus very easy. 

 

19th hole:  I think Grayhawk because of the better patio. 

[Soloman1]

TPC Stadium course is so boring that you might want to bring a book or something to read. The 16th isn't the same without the grandstands. It's known as the most boring course on tour.

 

Legend Trail is not bad. A couple of funky lines off the tee that you might not see the first time playing it. Grayhawk has more outdoor seating - which is pretty important in AZ... if you catch my drift.

Troon is overrated and not a particularly friendly place, in my experience.

[Hooded7]

Bummer about the Stadium Course, but I figured as much.  My group is excited about it though.

 

Does "easy" equate to boring for Legend Trail?  Boulders North finished overseeding on 10/11.  Legend Trail finished on 9/27.  Still stick with Legend Trail?

[Bonneville85308]

32 minutes ago, Hooded7 said:

Bummer about the Stadium Course, but I figured as much.  My group is excited about it though.

 

Does "easy" equate to boring for Legend Trail?  Boulders North finished overseeding on 10/11.  Legend Trail finished on 9/27.  Still stick with Legend Trail?

 

I've played Legend Trail dozens of times and don't find it boring at all. I'd recommend it to anyone. 

 

Stadium isn't a bad course IMO, but the majority of the holes are forgettable and it's not worth paying even half of what they charge during winter. 

[azgolfer44]

2 hours ago, Hooded7 said:

Bummer about the Stadium Course, but I figured as much.  My group is excited about it though.

 

Does "easy" equate to boring for Legend Trail?  Boulders North finished overseeding on 10/11.  Legend Trail finished on 9/27.  Still stick with Legend Trail?

Boulders doesn’t overseed greens which are bent grass. Should be pretty good shape. Personally I prefer boulders over LT.

[puttnforthe8]

6 hours ago, Hooded7 said:

Bummer about the Stadium Course, but I figured as much.  My group is excited about it though.

 

Does "easy" equate to boring for Legend Trail?  Boulders North finished overseeding on 10/11.  Legend Trail finished on 9/27.  Still stick with Legend Trail?

Not boring at all...just an easy course.  

[Soloman1]

The rates have been jacked up 20-30% this season since more people playing now. Some of the courses are just not worth the greens fee now, since nothing is better. Same courses; much more money.