Hogan's Secret...what is it? what is it not? (Hogan Threads Merged)

[Tiltswing]

Hogan did not hook then.

 

The reason he hooked in the old swing is because YES he would swing DTL some in old swing becaus he was way underneth and higher hands, re-routed, but the majority of the time he would hit the ball with a close toe and a little DTL.

 

 

He didn't hook when?!?!? I know he didn't hook in that video you posted, but he ALWAYS had lot of lag, look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . Whether or not his hands were higher it doesn't matter, his hooks were a result of the hang-back.

[Tiltswing]

OLD, where is the hang back???

 

 

You give me pictures of him at address, the top, and half way down and say where's the hang-back? Watch this video and you tell me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . His head starts falling back and he has a major reverse C at the finish.

 

EDIT: And probably because you won't even watch it, here's a pic:

 

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1p_NuPnW8...UwMc_Srh1MJEctU PRE SECRET HANG BACK

[sevam1]

OLD, where is the hang back???

 

 

You give me pictures of him at address, the top, and half way down and say where's the hang-back? Watch this video and you tell me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . He head starts falling back and he has a major reverse C at the finish.

 

I watched the video. Great video, but I don't agree with what you conclude from the video. I watched the whole thing and all I can tell you is that the more I watch the footwork in those swings the more easy it is to class them by date and actually the more convinced I am of my position on this.

 

Sevam1

[Tiltswing]

OLD, where is the hang back???

 

 

You give me pictures of him at address, the top, and half way down and say where's the hang-back? Watch this video and you tell me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . He head starts falling back and he has a major reverse C at the finish.

 

 

Yea that was kinda funny...

 

He does not stay on his right side in that first frame, he stays behind the ball and swings DTL. The right shoulder is the main problem look at the see-saw move he has going well trhough impact. Way under...

 

You're kidding right?? Are you telling me he doesn't stay on his right side in that picture? He stays on his right side the whole swing, and finishes there. That is exactly why Sevam's theory makes no sense. Seems staying right didn't prevent hooks. Also, those pics look post-secret to me, left wrist is cupped.

[Tiltswing]

OLD, where is the hang back???

 

 

You give me pictures of him at address, the top, and half way down and say where's the hang-back? Watch this video and you tell me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . He head starts falling back and he has a major reverse C at the finish.

 

 

Yea that was kinda funny...

 

He does not stay on his right side in that first frame, he stays behind the ball and swings DTL. The right shoulder is the main problem look at the see-saw move he has going well trhough impact. Way under...

 

You're kidding right?? Are you telling me he doesn't stay on his right side in that picture? He stays on his right side the whole swing, and finishes there. That is exactly why Sevam's theory makes no sense. Seems staying right didn't prevent hooks.

 

 

Right Heels off the ground how could he be hanging back? He would have to have the right leg in a position that I feel would look like Arnold Palmer.

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/swin..._palmer?slide=9

 

I really don't know what to say........You really can't see this??? He literally FALLS BACKWARDS ONTO HIS RIGHT LEG INTO THE FINISH. You can have your heel off the ground and still have weight on it. His spine is tilted back AWAY from the target. He is HANGING BACK. If you won't believe me, here is a post by dfw1500 saying the same thing as me:

 

"In the footage that I have PRE the "secret" you see Mr Hogan has got a tremendous amount of lag BUT he is fighting to try and release it as you see his head work backwards a lot and he is no where near as over his left side and posted as he is post the "secret"...........his grip was stronger BUT he had his head working backwards as the club was attacking from the inside and the head moving backwards meant that the leverage he had created could not be maintained and the club would be shutting down/going a bit more down the line and the legs are driving more.

 

IMOP he did not know how to release the lag he had created (he created as much as anyone in the history of the game) his head working backwards was his way of releasing the lag..........post the secret he was much more posted up on his left side and he was never seen in a reverse "C" finish......... he learnt to release his lag by taking the club low and left getting the butt of the club to work low and to the left to release the lag via the unwinding of the body......allowing the club to release as opposed to making it release.

 

This all resulted in him getting over his left side/pivot point earlier in the downswing which allowed him to go more around it and end the swing more posted onto his left side."

[Ezgolfer]

That 's strange looking left arm position ...

Is that preset pronation ...

[scores]

Tiltswing that is a powerfull pic for u r arguement... I call it as I see IT and he is hanging back..

[Swoosh-Thud]

Tilt.

 

Weight right, don't get to the pivot point, stay back/back out etc you'll hit a hook no matter what the release.

[Tiltswing]

Where in that video do you see Hogans left hip back up? His left hip if up against a wall would have to retreat for him to be hanging back. Now I will agree he is staying back with is upper like he is suppose too, but anyone that says he is hanging back does not understand what hanging back is.

 

 

Really? Then you are going against every reasonable person on this forum, including SF and dfw1500, who are the Hogan experts. Do you literally not see Hogan fall backwards after he hits the shot???? His head is working backwards and he has way too much weight on the back leg.

 

Compare Hogan's finish here:

 

 

With his finish here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Stop it at 0:07. I hope for the sake of everyone that has ever taken a lesson with you that you see the difference.

[Tiltswing]

Tilt.

 

Weight right, don't get to the pivot point, stay back/back out etc you'll hit a hook no matter what the release.

 

 

I assume you mean the left pivot point? That's what I'm saying, for some reason texan_golf seems to think that Hogan didn't have a hang-back in his pre-secret swing.

[scores]

Hello Texan Golf

 

In the video I would say the very first swing he hangs back...not the same release as others clips however the pic tiltswing posted its pretty clear .. anyway .. thats what I see.. or thats what I understand hanging back is ...????

[dminn23]

Definitely looks like hanging back to me in the Power Golf video. Look at his finish and how his weight is bouncing around in that video.

 

Its certainly not the 1 or 2 (can't remember which) iron at Merion. That picture is of a guy that got into his left side and finished balanced with everything going towards the target. He could've stood there all day.

[moehogan]

OLD, where is the hang back???

 

 

You give me pictures of him at address, the top, and half way down and say where's the hang-back? Watch this video and you tell me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU . He head starts falling back and he has a major reverse C at the finish.

 

 

Yea that was kinda funny...

 

He does not stay on his right side in that first frame, he stays behind the ball and swings DTL. The right shoulder is the main problem look at the see-saw move he has going well trhough impact. Way under...

 

You're kidding right?? Are you telling me he doesn't stay on his right side in that picture? He stays on his right side the whole swing, and finishes there. That is exactly why Sevam's theory makes no sense. Seems staying right didn't prevent hooks. Also, those pics look post-secret to me, left wrist is cupped.

 

 

Mr. Tilt,

 

If you have stayed on your right side, you probably have not pushed off of it.

 

MH

[Tiltswing]

Where in that video do you see Hogans left hip back up? His left hip if up against a wall would have to retreat for him to be hanging back. Now I will agree he is staying back with is upper like he is suppose too, but anyone that says he is hanging back does not understand what hanging back is.

 

 

Really? Then you are going against every reasonable person on this forum, including SF and dfw1500, who are the Hogan experts. Do you literally not see Hogan fall backwards after he hits the shot???? His head is working backwards and he has way too much weight on the back leg.

 

Compare Hogan's finish here:

 

 

With his finish here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Stop it at 0:07. I hope for the sake of everyone that has ever taken a lesson with you that you see the difference.

 

 

So I guess you are saying Tiger Stays on his right side.???

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you see the difference between Tiger's right heel angle with the ground and Hogan's pre-secret right heel angle with the ground? Buddy, this is so simple, I don't understand how you cannot understand this, I don't think there is a single person who cannot see this.

 

ANSWER THIS QUESTION: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT SEE HOGAN LITERALLY FALL BACKWARDS, ALMOST COMPLETELY LOSING BALANCE, ON THAT PRE-SECRET FACE ON DRIVER SWING????

[Ezgolfer]

I think they look similar to my eye ....

[dminn23]

Where in that video do you see Hogans left hip back up? His left hip if up against a wall would have to retreat for him to be hanging back. Now I will agree he is staying back with is upper like he is suppose too, but anyone that says he is hanging back does not understand what hanging back is.

 

 

Really? Then you are going against every reasonable person on this forum, including SF and dfw1500, who are the Hogan experts. Do you literally not see Hogan fall backwards after he hits the shot???? His head is working backwards and he has way too much weight on the back leg.

 

Compare Hogan's finish here:

 

 

With his finish here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Stop it at 0:07. I hope for the sake of everyone that has ever taken a lesson with you that you see the difference.

 

 

So I guess you are saying Tiger Stays on his right side.???

 

 

Poor example, Tiger has always had everything moving TOWARDS the target in the downswing. Is this evidence enough. That looks nothing like Power Golf downswing.

 

[Swoosh-Thud]

Tilt.

 

He's actually brushing back the dirt to hide his secret.

 

From the other thread:

 

Tilt.

 

In Bob Torrence's book he talks about "heel to toe" and "toe to heel" players with respect to the divot patterns being 3 til 12 and 3 after 12 respectively. He goes on to say the heel to toers are body players and toe heelers armsy players and talks about path to impact, finishes etc.

 

Do you suppose that is where the "secret is in the dirt" came from as Hogan was a body player? And that the heel leading the toe prevents a hook?

 

As I said earlier forgot where. Hogan discovered the way to use the pivot instead of the hands to reliably release the club (left). If you don't use your hands, you won't Harley 'em left.

[Tiltswing]

Tilt.

 

He's actually brushing back the dirt to hide his secret.

 

From the other thread:

 

Tilt.

 

In Bob Torrence's book he talks about "heel to toe" and "toe to heel" players with respect to the divot patterns being 3 til 12 and 3 after 12 respectively. He goes on to say the heel to toers are body players and toe heelers armsy players and talks about path to impact, finishes etc.

 

Do you suppose that is where the "secret is in the dirt" came from as Hogan was a body player? And that the heel leading the toe prevents a hook?

 

As I said earlier forgot where. Hogan discovered the way to use the pivot instead of the hands to reliably release the club (left). If you don't use your hands, you won't Harley 'em left.

 

I think secret is in the dirt could be referring to the divots, but really I think Hogan was just commenting on practice.

[Tiltswing]

Where in that video do you see Hogans left hip back up? His left hip if up against a wall would have to retreat for him to be hanging back. Now I will agree he is staying back with is upper like he is suppose too, but anyone that says he is hanging back does not understand what hanging back is.

 

 

Really? Then you are going against every reasonable person on this forum, including SF and dfw1500, who are the Hogan experts. Do you literally not see Hogan fall backwards after he hits the shot???? His head is working backwards and he has way too much weight on the back leg.

 

Compare Hogan's finish here:

 

 

With his finish here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Stop it at 0:07. I hope for the sake of everyone that has ever taken a lesson with you that you see the difference.

 

 

So I guess you are saying Tiger Stays on his right side.???

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you see the difference between Tiger's right heel angle with the ground and Hogan's pre-secret right heel angle with the ground? Buddy, this is so simple, I don't understand how you cannot understand this, I don't think there is a single person who cannot see this.

 

ANSWER THIS QUESTION: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT SEE HOGAN LITERALLY FALL BACKWARDS, ALMOST COMPLETELY LOSING BALANCE, ON THAT PRE-SECRET FACE ON DRIVER SWING????

 

 

 

 

Nope, I guess you have magic golf eyes that see more than the best teachers or researers of the game. Thats what I was saying before I really think people jump into conversations, and say things sometime that they have mixed information on. You do not really understand hangback in a golf swing.

 

(Hitting From the right side, right leg)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc2JgeyRgfE...player_embedded

 

How's this for the definition of hang-back considering there are no standard definitions for golf terminology. Backing out of the shot with the head and upper body in the downswing which leads to weight left on the right side rather than being posted on the left.

[snkramer]

For my own edification, do we know whether Hogan always had the recoil swing like that with the driver pre-secret? If not, I'm not sure how persuasive it is to focus on that one particular sequence to prove the point, even assuming it is evidence of what you say it is.

[Tiltswing]

For my own edification, do we know whether Hogan always had the recoil swing like that with the driver pre-secret? If not, I'm not sure how persuasive it is to focus on that one particular sequence to prove the point, even assuming it is evidence of what you say it is.

 

 

Snkramer, I've posted two swings that show him leaving weight on the right leg. This statement about Hogan's pre-secret hang-back has been stated by both SF and dfw1500.

[dminn23]

Where in that video do you see Hogans left hip back up? His left hip if up against a wall would have to retreat for him to be hanging back. Now I will agree he is staying back with is upper like he is suppose too, but anyone that says he is hanging back does not understand what hanging back is.

 

 

Really? Then you are going against every reasonable person on this forum, including SF and dfw1500, who are the Hogan experts. Do you literally not see Hogan fall backwards after he hits the shot???? His head is working backwards and he has way too much weight on the back leg.

 

Compare Hogan's finish here:

 

 

With his finish here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Stop it at 0:07. I hope for the sake of everyone that has ever taken a lesson with you that you see the difference.

 

 

So I guess you are saying Tiger Stays on his right side.???

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you see the difference between Tiger's right heel angle with the ground and Hogan's pre-secret right heel angle with the ground? Buddy, this is so simple, I don't understand how you cannot understand this, I don't think there is a single person who cannot see this.

 

ANSWER THIS QUESTION: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT SEE HOGAN LITERALLY FALL BACKWARDS, ALMOST COMPLETELY LOSING BALANCE, ON THAT PRE-SECRET FACE ON DRIVER SWING????

 

 

 

 

Nope, I guess you have magic golf eyes that see more than the best teachers or researers of the game. Thats what I was saying before I really think people jump into conversations, and say things sometime that they have mixed information on. You do not really understand hangback in a golf swing.

 

(Hitting From the right side, right leg)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc2JgeyRgfE...player_embedded

 

 

With all do respect, I hardly think that Charles Barkley's "personal joke" golf swing is hardly worth noting and really has no value in the argument. Could you explain what your interpretation is of "hanging back". You have only told us that we don't understand it but you haven't made any attempt to educate us.

[Swoosh-Thud]

Nope, I guess you have magic golf eyes that see more than the best teachers or researers of the game. Thats what I was saying before I really think people jump into conversations, and say things sometime that they have mixed information on. You do not really understand hangback in a golf swing.

 

(Hitting From the right side, right leg)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc2JgeyRgfE...player_embedded

 

 

What no hangback. That's about as opposite a Gary Player move as can be. My wife's a drunk, believe me I know a fall back when I see one.

 

Those Barkley videos belong in the other thread I see legs screwing and corcksrewing clockwise and counterclockwise.

[dminn23]

Tilt, do you consider hanging back and backing out one in the same? I've always interpreted backing out as a humping motion, or as Slice calls it, humping the goat. Upper body backs out and the toosh line is lost, when looking DTL.

 

Hanging back I just consider not getting the weight transfered left and the upper body hangs back, into that painful looking finish.

[Tiltswing]

Tilt, do you consider hanging back and backing out one in the same? I've always interpreted backing out as a humping motion, or as Slice calls it, humping the goat. Upper body backs out and the toosh line is lost, when looking DTL.

 

Hanging back I just consider not getting the weight transfered left and the upper body hangs back, into that painful looking finish.

 

 

I have the same definition for hanging back as you. I'm saying backing out because Hogan's head moves backwards in the downswing to release the lag (pre-secret).

[Ezgolfer]

Dminn23

 

No offense to anyone .

Just a casual golfer no teaching pro . Tiger 's driver swing finish looks similar as the right ahng back . You put on a short iron swing where he is moving targetwards . Comparing the two driver swing , they looks similar , specially the right leg to me ..

Please explain with some arrows as to how they are different ..

 

Thanks

[breakinpar]

For my own edification, do we know whether Hogan always had the recoil swing like that with the driver pre-secret? If not, I'm not sure how persuasive it is to focus on that one particular sequence to prove the point, even assuming it is evidence of what you say it is.

Amen.
Maybe Hogan was really going after one.

One day some tilted fool will come to golfwrx and say .....

[Swoosh-Thud]

Tilt, do you consider hanging back and backing out one in the same? I've always interpreted backing out as a humping motion, or as Slice calls it, humping the goat. Upper body backs out and the toosh line is lost, when looking DTL.

 

Hanging back I just consider not getting the weight transfered left and the upper body hangs back, into that painful looking finish.

 

 

Does it matter? Either way you need to block it/fight physics or you'll go LEFT -> LEFT as Slice would say.

[Tiltswing]

Dminn23

 

No offense to anyone .

Just a casual golfer no teaching pro . Tiger 's driver swing finish looks similar as the right ahng back . You put on a short iron swing where he is moving targetwards . Comparing the two driver swing , they looks similar , specially the right leg to me ..

Please explain with some arrows as to how they are different ..

 

Thanks

 

Compare Tiger's finish here:

 

With Hogan here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

Or here: http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1p_NuPnW8...UwMc_Srh1MJEctU

 

There is a big difference, although, Tiger does drop his head back in the downswing. At impact his head is further away from the target than it was at address. Hogan's is further forward at impact than at address, so that could be partly responsible for what you're seeing. Again, here is the quote by dfw1500:

 

"In the footage that I have PRE the "secret" you see Mr Hogan has got a tremendous amount of lag BUT he is fighting to try and release it as you see his head work backwards a lot and he is no where near as over his left side and posted as he is post the "secret"...........his grip was stronger BUT he had his head working backwards as the club was attacking from the inside and the head moving backwards meant that the leverage he had created could not be maintained and the club would be shutting down/going a bit more down the line and the legs are driving more.

 

IMOP he did not know how to release the lag he had created (he created as much as anyone in the history of the game) his head working backwards was his way of releasing the lag..........post the secret he was much more posted up on his left side and he was never seen in a reverse "C" finish......... he learnt to release his lag by taking the club low and left getting the butt of the club to work low and to the left to release the lag via the unwinding of the body......allowing the club to release as opposed to making it release.

 

This all resulted in him getting over his left side/pivot point earlier in the downswing which allowed him to go more around it and end the swing more posted onto his left side."

[breakinpar]