Hogan's Secret...what is it? what is it not? (Hogan Threads Merged)

[fats]

One day some tilted fool will come to golfwrx and say .....

 

 

Didn't say a word...Triple ROFL

 

 

[fats]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

[dminn23]

Dminn23

 

No offense to anyone .

Just a casual golfer no teaching pro . Tiger 's driver swing finish looks similar as the right ahng back . You put on a short iron swing where he is moving targetwards . Comparing the two driver swing , they looks similar , specially the right leg to me ..

Please explain with some arrows as to how they are different ..

 

Thanks

 

EZ, none taken. I think Tilt did a good job of explaining it. That Tiger swing was circa 2000 and your not going to see a huge difference there with his driver. Look in real time how he is getting through it.

 

When I'm looking at these, I'm not looking as much at the right leg. You can get off of that right heel and still hang back, thats not the issue. Its the upper body hanging back. Just to be consistent, look at Tigers finish with iron or driver in 2000, and look at Hogan's finish in the power golf video. My back would prefer Tiger's finish.

[Ezgolfer]

I am afraid this thread is going to get locked ....

 

Texan golf , i think that you posted those three swing video's to show the ??hang back and assume you are not saying those are rotary swing...

[dminn23]

Texan, dude....where is all of this coming from. No one is pushing you into a corner....we're having a debate. No need to get bent out of shape. I've been wrong before, I usually prefer to be wrong because its going to help me get better.

[breakinpar]

Everyone needs to calm down and stop acting like a tilted fool :)

 

"Just the facts, ma'am"

[breakinpar]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Ain't it interesting? He does that only with the driver tho and only when he really goes after one.

 

And Happy New Years Fat. May I be lucky enough to be as old and cranky (but not too tilty) as you. :)

Hahaha...

[ryanandrew_golf]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Would seem to be difficult wouldn't it!

 

Edit: Could you push off and then drag the foot after the weight went left?

[Tiltswing]

I think someone said that Hogan kept weight right pre-secret because he didn't push off his right foot (referring to Sevam's idea of keeping pressure on the ball of the right foot). That doesn't make sense to me because Hogan's head starting moving backwards in the downswing pretty early back then. Weight is going to stay right no matter what with the head going back like that.

[Swoosh-Thud]

I think someone said that Hogan kept weight right pre-secret because he didn't push off his right foot (referring to Sevam's idea of keeping pressure on the ball of the right foot). That doesn't make sense to me because Hogan's head starting moving backwards in the downswing pretty early back then. Weight is going to stay right no matter what with the head going back like that.

 

 

Gotta be one helluva toe.............................

 

 

[breakinpar]

I think someone said that Hogan kept weight right pre-secret because he didn't push off his right foot (referring to Sevam's idea of keeping pressure on the ball of the right foot). That doesn't make sense to me because Hogan's head starting moving backwards in the downswing pretty early back then. Weight is going to stay right no matter what with the head going back like that.

 

 

Gotta be one helluva toe.............................

 

 

 

Bad evidence. The clubhead has past the right leg. Thanks for trying.

[Swoosh-Thud]

Bad evidence. The clubhead has past the right leg. Thanks for trying.

 

Best I could do w/out trying........I was more after the punchline anyway :)

[Poke]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Fats,

 

Far be for me to tell you anything about the swing, but if you carefully watch the video, you can see his right heal torquing the ground counter-clockwise (everting) during the down swing and the right foot being dragged/scratched by the force of the finish, spent after supporting the strike.

[Tiltswing]

I think someone said that Hogan kept weight right pre-secret because he didn't push off his right foot (referring to Sevam's idea of keeping pressure on the ball of the right foot). That doesn't make sense to me because Hogan's head starting moving backwards in the downswing pretty early back then. Weight is going to stay right no matter what with the head going back like that.

 

 

Gotta be one helluva toe.............................

 

 

 

Bad evidence. The clubhead has past the right leg. Thanks for trying.

 

I've already posted all the evidence, Hogan's secret was not keeping more weight on his right foot so he could push off of it. You can clearly see that he ALWAYS did that. Pre-secret, post-secret, it's right there in the footage. Sevam's argument is "sometimes he did sometimes he didn't." Seems like a pretty cheap way to make your point, especially when you back it up with no evidence. Again, Sevam trying to keep weight right is probably the reason that he doesn't transfer he COGs very well, looks nothing like Hogan post impact (or any other part of the swing for that matter).

[Tiltswing]

I think someone said that Hogan kept weight right pre-secret because he didn't push off his right foot (referring to Sevam's idea of keeping pressure on the ball of the right foot). That doesn't make sense to me because Hogan's head starting moving backwards in the downswing pretty early back then. Weight is going to stay right no matter what with the head going back like that.

 

 

Gotta be one helluva toe.............................

 

 

 

Bad evidence. The clubhead has past the right leg. Thanks for trying.

 

I've already posted all the evidence, Hogan's secret was not keeping more weight on his right foot so he could push off of it. You can clearly see that he ALWAYS did that. Pre-secret, post-secret, it's right there in the footage. Sevam's argument is "sometimes he did sometimes he didn't." Seems like a pretty cheap way to make your point, especially when you back it up with no evidence. Again, Sevam trying to keep weight right is probably the reason that he doesn't transfer he COGs very well, looks nothing like Hogan post impact (or any other part of the swing for that matter).

 

But I have more evidence anyway, this is from VJ Trolio's book:

 

"If you doubt that Ben Hogan really did use "the final missing piece," than get a copy of John Schlee's 1986 book Maximum Golf and read the bottom middle two paragraphs on page 80. According to his long-time club designer and friend Gene Sheeley, Ben Hogan "...discovered that the more weight he got onto the left foot and the turning point, the faster he could spin level left. He discovered that it was impossible to generate maximum speed unless he was on the turning point." On this same page in Maximum Golf you can also read that many years before the invention of the radar gun and launch monitor, Ben Hogan came up with a machine which would accurately measure his club head speed. With this machine, he proved to himself that he had to get his weight left."

[DemolitionMan]

Seems like for the most part you guys are reining yourselves in. However, the big bold face shouting and the personal attacks are not such a great idea. And I am particularly getting tired of the one-liners and the repeated requests to see someone's swing posted across multiple thread - you know who you are.

 

Let's keep the thread open for once. It would be a shame to get a thread locked so soon. If this one gets locked, then the Hogan debate will have nowhere to go - that would be a problem.

[Swoosh-Thud]

Which swing you talking about Poke, the Pre/Post leg brace are the same.

[Swoosh-Thud]

"If you doubt that Ben Hogan really did use "the final missing piece," than get a copy of John Schlee's 1986 book Maximum Golf and read the bottom middle two paragraphs on page 80. According to his long-time club designer and friend Gene Sheeley, Ben Hogan "...discovered that the more weight he got onto the left foot and the turning point, the faster he could spin level left. He discovered that it was impossible to generate maximum speed unless he was on the turning point." On this same page in Maximum Golf you can also read that many years before the invention of the radar gun and launch monitor, Ben Hogan came up with a machine which would accurately measure his club head speed. With this machine, he proved to himself that he had to get his weight left."

 

 

BINGO! Haven't I said that all along, but I guess I need an E-Book to be believable.

 

But in all honesty I do have both the Max golf book and video that's where I got it from. If anybody oughtta know it'd be Schlee.

 

And the secret is a visible maneuver:

 

Hogan said "it's plain to see if you knew where to look." I guess he didn't know there'd be videotape.

 

I've been told after Schlee went to Hogan the players smirked at his new swing, til they saw they saw the results. They didn't smirk anymore.

[ryanandrew_golf]

"If you doubt that Ben Hogan really did use "the final missing piece," than get a copy of John Schlee's 1986 book Maximum Golf and read the bottom middle two paragraphs on page 80. According to his long-time club designer and friend Gene Sheeley, Ben Hogan "...discovered that the more weight he got onto the left foot and the turning point, the faster he could spin level left. He discovered that it was impossible to generate maximum speed unless he was on the turning point." On this same page in Maximum Golf you can also read that many years before the invention of the radar gun and launch monitor, Ben Hogan came up with a machine which would accurately measure his club head speed. With this machine, he proved to himself that he had to get his weight left."

 

 

BINGO! Haven't I said that all along, but I guess I need an E-Book to be believable.

 

But in all honesty I do have both the Max golf book and video that's where I got it from. If anybody oughtta know it'd be Schlee.

 

And the secret is a visible maneuver:

 

Hogan said "it's plain to see if you knew where to look." I guess he didn't know there'd be videotape.

 

I've been told after Schlee went to Hogan the players smirked at his new swing, til they saw they saw the results. They didn't smirk anymore.

 

As you know, Slice has just simplified the "Final Missing Piece" (years ago, I might add) so no need for the COG shift. Set up and pivot as Slice advises and you can rotate as fast as want and knock the snot out of it!

[Tiltswing]

"If you doubt that Ben Hogan really did use "the final missing piece," than get a copy of John Schlee's 1986 book Maximum Golf and read the bottom middle two paragraphs on page 80. According to his long-time club designer and friend Gene Sheeley, Ben Hogan "...discovered that the more weight he got onto the left foot and the turning point, the faster he could spin level left. He discovered that it was impossible to generate maximum speed unless he was on the turning point." On this same page in Maximum Golf you can also read that many years before the invention of the radar gun and launch monitor, Ben Hogan came up with a machine which would accurately measure his club head speed. With this machine, he proved to himself that he had to get his weight left."

 

 

BINGO! Haven't I said that all along, but I guess I need an E-Book to be believable.

 

But in all honesty I do have both the Max golf book and video that's where I got it from. If anybody oughtta know it'd be Schlee.

 

And the secret is a visible maneuver:

 

Hogan said "it's plain to see if you knew where to look." I guess he didn't know there'd be videotape.

 

I've been told after Schlee went to Hogan the players smirked at his new swing, til they saw they saw the results. They didn't smirk anymore.

 

As you know, Slice has just simplified the "Final Missing Piece" (years ago, I might add) so no need for the COG shift. Set up and pivot as Slice advises and you can rotate as fast as want and knock the snot out of it!

 

Judging by the video I've seen of his students I'd agree! Pretty sure the only result of trying to keep weight right is shown right here:

 

 

[fats]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Fats,

 

Far be for me to tell you anything about the swing, but if you carefully watch the video, you can see his right heal torquing the ground counter-clockwise (everting) during the down swing and the right foot being dragged/scratched by the force of the finish, spent after supporting the strike.

 

Thanks...My feeling is he is wider with the driver and the foot gets dragged by movement to the left side and rotation of the hips.

I do not however, believe Sevam1 has found anything important...I praise him for his imagination though. He's convinced he's correct and apparantly has helped some people. Another Hogan Secret...How many is that now?

 

Funny...the only person I see teaching where his students show some very important features of Hogan's swing is Slicefixer and he doesn't claim Hogan's secret...

[Tiltswing]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Fats,

 

Far be for me to tell you anything about the swing, but if you carefully watch the video, you can see his right heal torquing the ground counter-clockwise (everting) during the down swing and the right foot being dragged/scratched by the force of the finish, spent after supporting the strike.

 

Thanks...My feeling is he is wider with the driver and the foot gets dragged by movement to the left side and rotation of the hips.

I do not however, believe Sevam1 has found anything important...I praise him for his imagination though. He's convinced he's correct and apparantly has helped some people. Another Hogan Secret...How many is that now?

 

 

121323024923. You're dead right about the foot dragging, result of rotation/width of stance.

[Swoosh-Thud]

As you know, Slice has just simplified the "Final Missing Piece" (years ago, I might add) so no need for the COG shift. Set up and pivot as Slice advises and you can rotate as fast as want and knock the snot out of it!

 

Release left = the secret

 

You're preachin to the choir my friend. Proper angles at setup, stretch and give 'er hell at the bottom!

 

I go even one step further and practice in sneakers on a mat. I play in sneakers as well; balance is key........I've even hit balls in crocs, though you need to wear socks with those.

 

Now if we can only get those Morad boys to set up in a reverse K.......................they're close......he he he

 

 

Hey Tilt.

Didn't Mac say he played his best golf when his stance was only 13" apart.....goes along with the stay left theory don't it?

[Tiltswing]

As you know, Slice has just simplified the "Final Missing Piece" (years ago, I might add) so no need for the COG shift. Set up and pivot as Slice advises and you can rotate as fast as want and knock the snot out of it!

 

Release left = the secret

 

You're preachin to the choir my friend. Proper angles at setup, stretch and give 'er hell at the bottom!

 

I go even one step further and practice in sneakers on a mat. I play in sneakers as well; balance is key........I've even hit balls in crocs, though you need to wear socks with those.

 

Now if we can only get those Morad boys to set up in a reverse K.......................they're close......he he he

 

 

Hey Tilt.

Didn't Mac say he played his best golf when his stance was only 13" apart.....goes along with the stay left theory don't it?

 

Narrow stance=greater COG transfer. I've seen Mac do all kinds of stuff, sometimes he sets up with tilt (reverse K) sometimes he doesn't depends on the shot. It's a bit easier to release left with less tilt. Too much axis tilt causes swings out to the right as we can all see:

 

 

[Swoosh-Thud]

Funny...the only person I see teaching where his students show some very important features of Hogan's swing is Slicefixer and he doesn't claim Hogan's secret...

 

He doesn't need to claim it, just look at his student's swings. Proof's in the puddin.........

 

As Kid rock says: "It ain't braggin ______ if you back it up............"

[breakinpar]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Fats,

 

Far be for me to tell you anything about the swing, but if you carefully watch the video, you can see his right heal torquing the ground counter-clockwise (everting) during the down swing and the right foot being dragged/scratched by the force of the finish, spent after supporting the strike.

 

Thanks...My feeling is he is wider with the driver and the foot gets dragged by movement to the left side and rotation of the hips.

I do not however, believe Sevam1 has found anything important...I praise him for his imagination though. He's convinced he's correct and apparantly has helped some people. Another Hogan Secret...How many is that now?

 

 

121323024923. You're dead right about the foot dragging, result of rotation/width of stance.

 

1-213-230-2493 ext 3 ???

Hogan's secret hotline?

[Poke]

Which swing you talking about Poke, the Pre/Post leg brace are the same.

 

Post/Pre was not how I read Fat's post--he was commenting on contridiction of leveraging with the right foot while scratching.

[Tiltswing]

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Love this clip...thanks...haven't seen the *floor scratch or turf scratch* featured before...very nice..one would wonder how a person could turf scratch with their big toe and push at the same time...thanks again...I'll put that one in my files.

 

Fats

 

Fats,

 

Far be for me to tell you anything about the swing, but if you carefully watch the video, you can see his right heal torquing the ground counter-clockwise (everting) during the down swing and the right foot being dragged/scratched by the force of the finish, spent after supporting the strike.

 

Thanks...My feeling is he is wider with the driver and the foot gets dragged by movement to the left side and rotation of the hips.

I do not however, believe Sevam1 has found anything important...I praise him for his imagination though. He's convinced he's correct and apparantly has helped some people. Another Hogan Secret...How many is that now?

 

 

121323024923. You're dead right about the foot dragging, result of rotation/width of stance.

 

1-213-230-2493 ext 3 ???

Hogan's secret hotline?

 

 

No, lol, that's the number of secrets.

[Swoosh-Thud]

Narrow stance=greater COG transfer. I've seen Mac do all kinds of stuff, sometimes he sets up with tilt (reverse K) sometimes he doesn't depends on the shot. It's a bit easier to release left with less tilt.

 

You got that right.......I got too wide never got to my (left) pivot point had to block it to keep 'er straight. A well struck ball went 40 yds left even with a non DTL release. Slice said sic "you're fightin physics, hit it like we want and you'll go left of left off the planet." He told me of Mac's stance, been narrow ever since.

 

What keeps on repeating here....left?

 

PS I've seen similar hands on another video?

[fats]

Tilt, Cavallo

 

Slice has said many times he liked Mac's old stuff...

 

All this Hogan stuff is interesting...it was the greatest alltime swing for sure...but attempting to cash in on someone elses name is BS.