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Yet again, fairways don't mean jack.......


nikemike
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Rory pulled off his win with a total of 46.4% fairways hit for the week. I wish they would factor in first cut and discount anything in the true rough. Half the time I would rather be in the first cut as some fairways are super tight.

 

Here is the total driving accuracy percentage of the winners this year.

 

Rory 54.9%

Arron 60.4%

JB 51.7%

Tiger 48.8%

Chad 56.3%

David 68.6%

Stuart 55.3%

 

The guys with higher accuracy are lower on the distance totem pole too...... ;)

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If you've ever played a course just after a championship, some of the places these guys hit the ball is worn or trampled from spectators... if you play the course before hand or long after where Tiger hit a 2 iron from the rough, you can't even see the ball never mind get a sand iron on it!

 

I think the rough should be allowed to grow unabaited, there's not enough punishment involved these days for missing a fairway.

 

Should be that each time the Pro's miss a fairway into the rough it's a hack out and struggle to make par, I'd also keep the spectators away from the obvious areas where pros bail out, many of them aim where they know that if it does slide they'll have a nice flattened lie to play off.

 

I'd also do away with the line of sight rule, you end up in a grandstand, you play it or take a penalty drop... hitting a shot 40 yds wayward then getting a drop next to the green in a DZ is a joke just like the Pros themsleves are a joke, one trick Long drive ponies who can't work

a golf ball to save themselves.

 

The game has been deskilled.

 

Making courses longer is nonsense, make them tougher! I don't give a toss about TV ratings and catering for some beer gutted muppet in his lazyboy chair that doesn't play the game or put money into the sport. Let's get the sport back for the purists, not the unwashed masses

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If you've ever played a course just after a championship, some of the places these guys hit the ball is worn or trampled from spectators... if you play the course before hand or long after where Tiger hit a 2 iron from the rough, you can't even see the ball never mind get a sand iron on it!

 

I think the rough should be allowed to grow unabaited, there's not enough punishment involved these days for missing a fairway.

 

Should be that each time the Pro's miss a fairway into the rough it's a hack out and struggle to make par, I'd also keep the spectators away from the obvious areas where pros bail out, many of them aim where they know that if it does slide they'll have a nice flattened lie to play off.

 

I'd also do away with the line of sight rule, you end up in a grandstand, you play it or take a penalty drop... hitting a shot 40 yds wayward then getting a drop next to the green in a DZ is a joke just like the Pros themsleves are a joke, one trick Long drive ponies who can't work

a golf ball to save themselves.

 

The game has been deskilled.

 

Making courses longer is nonsense, make them tougher! I don't give a toss about TV ratings and catering for some beer gutted muppet in his lazyboy chair that doesn't play the game or put money into the sport. Let's get the sport back for the purists, not the unwashed masses

while we are at it why don't we put chicken wire and barbed wire along the fairways and build moats around greens?? the game just seems to be getting easier because the players are that much better. golf has become a sport of athletes, where some of the pga tour players could pass themselves off for football and baseball players....long lean and muscular.

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I was at Riviera Friday and Saturday. Watched a lot of the 15th hole where both Couples and Sabbatini hit it left into the rough and had a hard time with it. Both hit hooks left of the green. I think Rivera is plenty tough. Just no. 15 looking from the tee: large bunker right, trees all down the right side, rough left, into the wind and dog leg right. I saw so many pros hit unbelievable shots from that rough with 3-4 irons. Oh and it was not short rough. Arron Oberholser (sp?) made a remark Sat. that another 3 iron into a par 4. Over 200 out into the wind. I guess I am kinda disagreeing with you guys about Riviera. IMO that course is brutal and pretty easy to miss the fairway, but the pros recovery shots with the irons are unreal. Besides imo I think GIR is more important than driving accuracy. That course punishes you with bad shots but those pros usually make one bad one than a great one.

 

Just my 2¢

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Actually the game is getting easier because courses are getting easier. If you can hit the balls 300+ yards you do not have to hit fairways because the rough anymore is a joke. Look at Ben Hogan. Pound for pound he was probably the longest hitter ever and he hit the fairways at the same time. That is why in his prime almost no one could touch him. In the 40s and 50s when he, Byron and Snead were dominant the courses were harder than they ever were. If you didn't hit the fairway in a US Open you were dead. The rough was at times 8" long during the Opens. If the rough gets longer than 3" now the pros start crying about how the course is unfair and too hard. In '55 at Olympic the average drive the first two rounds was less than 220 because missing the fairways was not an option and the players were hitting irons off the tees. In the first round something like 11 or 12 guys broke 80 out of a field of 162 players. The cut was 155. Riviera was on average 7000 yards long when Hogan won two LA Opens and a US Open there in 1947 and 48. That was when par meant something and people were awed by how a true golfer could control his shots not by how far he could hit it off the tee. Today's game is still about putting but more emphasis needs to be placed on shotmaking and accuracy on a weekly basis. A great example is the last two weeks on tour. Pebble and Riviera are by no means short but you have to shape shots and be accurate. I don't recall seeing many of the "longbombers" up high on the leaderboards.

 

Just my thoughts.

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Be interesting if someone came up with a "modified" scoring system, where you got points for fairways, GIR, sandies, etc. and not just strokes.

 

We all have a lot of these betting games, but I wonder if anyone's ever come up with some type of alternative scoring based on these factors (besides Stableford).

 

At the very least, it'd be an interesting thing to wager...

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And then there's Johnny Miller in this month's issue of Golf Digest saying that they need to make the major setups more fair...this from the king of easy track scoring (noting his legendary Oakmont performance was lift, clean and place...)

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Here's what I think. Make the first cut about 10 feet wide and 4 inches high. Made the second cut a jungle, as in "slash it back to the fairway". Shouldn't there be a penalty for hitting a loose tee shot, beyond simply have a slightly lower chance of making a birdie?

Taylormade r11s 9 Penley Stealth 70x 44.5" D-3 ------> Taylormade 16 M1 8.5 GD AD TP6x 44.0" D3 [s]PX Hzrdus Black 75 6.0 44.5" D-3[/s]
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Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18 Grafalloy CNote ProtoX
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Vokey SM6 56-14/60-04M DG x-100 Sensicore 1xss D-5 ------------> Vokey SM6 56/10 60/4M DG 120 S300 35" D-5
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I think they should make the roughs longer and move some of the fairway bunkers to where the players are now hitting the ball. Remember most of the courses were set up when no one ever dreamn't of hitting the ball 300 yards +.

 

So lets make the players including you and I concentrate on shot placement. If you hit it in the rought you should be penalized and rewarded for hitting it in the fairway.

 

I don't agree with lenghtening the course lets just make some minor alterations to make it a test of ones abilites and not a long drive contest every week.

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And then there's Johnny Miller in this month's issue of Golf Digest saying that they need to make the major setups more fair...this from the king of easy track scoring (noting his legendary Oakmont performance was lift, clean and place...)

 

You sure about that? I've never heard of a Major being played under lift clean and cheat rules, especially a US Open where the USGA doesn't seem to care what others think of the set up.

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Here's what I think. Make the first cut about 10 feet wide and 4 inches high. Made the second cut a jungle, as in "slash it back to the fairway". Shouldn't there be a penalty for hitting a loose tee shot, beyond simply have a slightly lower chance of making a birdie?

 

 

how about keep it the same until you get about 330 out. then you make the rough out side the intermediate cut like a foot deep

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Fill the ponds with crocodiles....

 

Fill the bunkers with scorpions and sand fleas....

 

Let the rough grow out to 3 feet and stock it up with pissed off kangaroos wearing 16oz. boxing gloves....

 

Ratings would soar!!!

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Funny statement about courses and how they play compared to the 40's & 50'...1st US OPEN Bethpage Black the rough was atleast 8" thick. The carry on 15 was 265 uphill into the wind. Most Narrow fairways in Open History.

 

Very Generational statement to say that courses are set up easiser now??? AUGUSTA NATIONAL???

 

;) :D :fool:

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And then there's Johnny Miller in this month's issue of Golf Digest saying that they need to make the major setups more fair...this from the king of easy track scoring (noting his legendary Oakmont performance was lift, clean and place...)

 

You sure about that? I've never heard of a Major being played under lift clean and cheat rules, especially a US Open where the USGA doesn't seem to care what others think of the set up.

i am pretty sure that is true.. it rained alot that week.

 

 

i believe that the 3rd of the 2005 masters was lift clean and place...

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People love to bash the long ballers. How boring IMO it would be to go to a PGA tournament and watch them hit irons off tees all day and putter around a 6500 yd track. Its fun to watch a guy hit it far. Its not so much fun to watch the same guy have to tone it down to hit an unnaturally narrow fairway with a 4 iron. Golf was not better way back then, when a bunch of out of shape fat guys in bad polyester pants chased a ball around. Todays players are true athletes that have chosen golf over a host of other sports I am sure they could also play and be successful. Yesterdays players were not athletes per say. Unlike today where the out of shape fat guy is the exception in years past it was the rule. There were a few guys who could play something else but most were only golfers. Gone also are the stuffy days when golf was thought of as a rich white guy's sport. That is a good thing too. All you purists you need to know there aren't enough of you to support all those great golf courses springing up all over the place. Remember there are a lot more hacks paying green fees than there are single digit handicappers. As a single digit guy myself I think I forgot that. I believe golf is headed in the right direction. The equipment as made it easier for the masses to play and the tour has become more exciting for the masses to watch. And since the masses pay the damn bills, not a bunch of cranky old timers, thats a good thing. So to get back on point don't bash the long hitter, instead revel in the fact they can do something so well, (we do it with every other sport) and even if you can't hit it 250 realize thats why there are several sets of tees to choose from.

Oh and by the way there is no statistical cooralation whatsoever between driving distance and scoring on the PGA tour so the shotmakers and putters still rule not the bombers.

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I was at Riviera Friday and Saturday. Watched a lot of the 15th hole where both Couples and Sabbatini hit it left into the rough and had a hard time with it. Both hit hooks left of the green. I think Rivera is plenty tough. Just no. 15 looking from the tee: large bunker right, trees all down the right side, rough left, into the wind and dog leg right. I saw so many pros hit unbelievable shots from that rough with 3-4 irons. Oh and it was not short rough. Arron Oberholser (sp?) made a remark Sat. that another 3 iron into a par 4. Over 200 out into the wind. I guess I am kinda disagreeing with you guys about Riviera. IMO that course is brutal and pretty easy to miss the fairway, but the pros recovery shots with the irons are unreal. Besides imo I think GIR is more important than driving accuracy. That course punishes you with bad shots but those pros usually make one bad one than a great one.

 

Just my 2¢

 

I agree with you that G.I.R is much more important than driving accuracy. If you look at the leaderboards in most tournaments there is usually a close correlation between who's up front and who's hitting the most G.I.R. In short the ability to recover from a missed fairway is as important if not moreso than hitting fairways.

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Oh and by the way there is no statistical cooralation whatsoever between driving distance and scoring on the PGA tour so the shotmakers and putters still rule not the bombers.

 

 

Actually Hank Kuehne and Scott Hend two of the longest hitters on tour last year are struggling. Hend actually lost his tour card for this year and Kuehne is stronging to make cuts.

 

The guys that consistently score well on tour may or may not be bombers but they definitely have got to be able to get up and down consistently from 100 yards in and they have to putt well.

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I think they should shorten courses. Which would give player's more options in terms of shots to hit. Thus making it more entertaining. Plus more fun for the golfers so more top names will enter tournaments.

 

That actually makes the most sense of all the posts here. Play from the white tees and get more driveable par 4's, that will bring some risk/reward back into the game.

 

Then of course when the next tour players shoots 59 on a short course, everyone will clamor for an asterisk like it was the equivalent of Barry Bonds.

 

Roll back the distance on the ball!

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And then there's Johnny Miller in this month's issue of Golf Digest saying that they need to make the major setups more fair...this from the king of easy track scoring (noting his legendary Oakmont performance was lift, clean and place...)

 

You sure about that? I've never heard of a Major being played under lift clean and cheat rules, especially a US Open where the USGA doesn't seem to care what others think of the set up.

i am pretty sure that is true.. it rained alot that week.

 

 

i believe that the 3rd of the 2005 masters was lift clean and place...

The attached link written about the 2005 Players Championship mentioned that lift clean and place has never been done at either the US Open or the Masters. I know the 3rd round of the Masters last year wasn't lift, clean, and place because I remember Tiger talking about the great break he got on the 10th hole, his last on Saturday. There was a huge clump of mud on the ball and he chose to mark it and resume the round Sunday morning. Went on to birdie 10,11,12,and 13 and we all know what happened then.

 

http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/032605/2913134.shtml

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Let me preface by saying I am in no way and expert and I am sure that there are many here with expertise and expert knowledge on professional golf past and present way beyond myself. Now having said that it seems in every sport or endevour in life the past, the players, the people and the times had it tougher.

 

Somebody right or wrong wants to return to the past or "glory years." The problem I have with that is that in the 80's someone would be wishing it was a return to era's past like Jones, Hagen etc. Now it is return to era like Nicklaus, Player and Palmer. The fact is with time althletes and technology both improve. Take putting for instance: who putts with that wristy pop shot anymore? No one... atleast no one on tour with success. Why did it change? could be agronomy of greens (hope that is the correct term) or scientific study through video. I say it is a combination of all those things.

 

I personally think that the players swing a lot harder and full-on than in the past. Perhaps it is equipment or perhaps they just have a different mind set. I saw Steve Jones at the Nissan with new modern day equip and he just wasn't as long as the younger guys. Why? maybe he just learned to swing differently and not just unleash on the ball.

 

I like the past as history and would hate to see going back. I dont' think equipment is the only thing to blame. Nicklaus complains and wants a new ball yet he was the longest hitter of his time. Length of the tee and athleticism should not be a bad thing imo. Besides we are all playing the same equip and is there a rule that courses can't change along the way. not just lengthening but bunkering, green speed etc.

 

I dont' think golf courses or atleast ones as good as Riviera are in trouble. Yes 12-13 under isn't nothing but it was fair and rewarded great shots and punished poor ball striking.

 

sorry for long rant.

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I think they should shorten courses. Which would give player's more options in terms of shots to hit. Thus making it more entertaining. Plus more fun for the golfers so more top names will enter tournaments.

 

That actually makes the most sense of all the posts here. Play from the white tees and get more driveable par 4's, that will bring some risk/reward back into the game.

 

Then of course when the next tour players shoots 59 on a short course, everyone will clamor for an asterisk like it was the equivalent of Barry Bonds.

 

Roll back the distance on the ball!

 

The thing is scoring hasn't increased along with driving distances. So I really don't understand why people are upset about guys you can bomb it.

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I think they should shorten courses. Which would give player's more options in terms of shots to hit. Thus making it more entertaining. Plus more fun for the golfers so more top names will enter tournaments.

 

That actually makes the most sense of all the posts here. Play from the white tees and get more driveable par 4's, that will bring some risk/reward back into the game.

 

Then of course when the next tour players shoots 59 on a short course, everyone will clamor for an asterisk like it was the equivalent of Barry Bonds.

 

Roll back the distance on the ball!

 

The thing is scoring hasn't increased along with driving distances. So I really don't understand why people are upset about guys you can bomb it.

 

Yeah! So really what's the fuss all about. If players wanna bomb it off the tee let them. Besides what do you like more, crushing a drive or hitting a perfect four iron with a slight draw.

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