Hogan comparison over 10 years

[golfbulldog]

 

Mexico City 1956

 

Augusta 1946-7 ie post his secret in April 1946 (as Dodson states in his biography - but please correct me if you have facts to back it up - I do not believe it was done in 1945)

 

What differences do you see?

 

Do the differences relate more tp wreck compensations or fine tuning of the swing as he develped?

 

Comments please - thanks

[ej002]

In the older version, I get the feeling (at least it looks to me) like there is some active arm action going on (not a lot), but TO ME, it looks like that may be the case. This is why I think that, (1) he is a little more up right and takes the arms higher and (2) it looks like he is pulling a little bit more to the inside. I am sure this comment will get someone upset, but I dont intend to, it is just what it looks like to me. The mexico city footage is just perfect, he has more of a laying off motion in transition too, much flatter, to me more in synch looking. JMO and it counts for nothing! LOL!

 

Great job on the slow mo edit! Is there anyway to get a side by side?

[golfbulldog]

In the older version, I get the feeling (at least it looks to me) like there is some active arm action going on (not a lot), but TO ME, it looks like that may be the case. This is why I think that, (1) he is a little more up right and takes the arms higher and (2) it looks like he is pulling a little bit more to the inside. I am sure this comment will get someone upset, but I dont intend to, it is just what it looks like to me. The mexico city footage is just perfect, he has more of a laying off motion in transition too, much flatter, to me more in synch looking. JMO and it counts for nothing! LOL!

 

Great job on the slow mo edit! Is there anyway to get a side by side?

Thanks EJ, not sure about side-by-side - need more software than I have!

 

I think that it is always fun to compare his patterns - arguments will always follow over angles of view etc... but there seem to be a few things that are true irrespective of angles.

 

I agree about the flatter more laid off look in Mexico city.

 

It seems also that his shoulder plane motion in Mexico was more "rotated" (like in MORAD styles) than the flatter shoulder turn in the ealier Augusta footage. This would probably fit with a variation of plane angle - "double shift" in TGM....maybe?

 

Also his pelvis rotates more through impact in Mexico.

 

KOC might know about side-by-side editing software.

[Dariusz J.]

 

Mexico City 1956

 

Augusta 1946-7 ie post his secret in April 1946 (as Dodson states in his biography - but please correct me if you have facts to back it up - I do not believe it was done in 1945)

 

What differences do you see?

 

Do the differences relate more tp wreck compensations or fine tuning of the swing as he develped?

 

Comments please - thanks

 

I am sorry to disappoint you, GB. The second swing is pre-secret one, pressuming that the DTL one is recorded at the same day as the FO one in this clip:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNgMNK3CtWU

 

I know what you meant - to compare the post-secret but pre-accident swing with a post-accident one, yes ? It would be difficult to find his 1947-49 swing vids, except the only one I know (FO driver swing from the BH Collection DVD).

 

Cheers

[golfbulldog]

Darius, by rising to the bait you did not disappoint me!

 

Yes, it would appear to be the same sequence shot at Augusta as the Face on driver in the mystique Youtube you mentioned.

 

But why do you say that that is pre-secret??? Without reference to your own interpretation of the secret....

[Dariusz J.]

Darius, by rising to the bait you did not disappoint me!

 

Yes, it would appear to be the same sequence shot at Augusta as the Face on driver in the mystique Youtube you mentioned.

 

But why do you say that that is pre-secret??? Without reference to your own interpretation of the secret....

 

GB, there are a lot of evidences judging by technical aspects of the very motions, but the most spectacular one is the grip. If we may assume that the FO vid is from the same sequeence as the DTL one that you include in your analysis, you can clearily see his grip that is different (right hand is not in a weak position) - and as you know, the grip change is one of the most characteristic changes that accompanied the "secret".

 

Cheers

[golfbulldog]

I agree that is not as weak as the grip he demonstrates in 1955 Life...but it is not as strong as the one that he appears to have started on tour with.

 

He does cup the left wrist in the earlier footage in the video though...

 

There is a near impossible task to seperate the natural evolutionary changes which would have occured post secret without wreck....from those changes which had to occur post wreck...unless Hogan kept diary of all his work which we have access to ...we will never know...and the forum will continue to debate...

[Dariusz J.]

I agree that is not as weak as the grip he demonstrates in 1955 Life...but it is not as strong as the one that he appears to have started on tour with.

 

Do you have a pic of his early days grip to compare ? Just curious to see it...

 

Cheers

[golfbulldog]

I agree that is not as weak as the grip he demonstrates in 1955 Life...but it is not as strong as the one that he appears to have started on tour with.

 

Do you have a pic of his early days grip to compare ? Just curious to see it...

 

Cheers

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

 

looks like Henry Picard was doing some left hand grip work here in 1939...well before the Augusta footage was taken...not going to be making that grip "stronger"....

 

Also if you compare the grip photo in Power Golf to that taken in 1947 here:-

 

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=b...9bdaa7e01808e30

 

They look very similar IMO - strange angle but it is obviously one that Hogan liked - same angle as Power Golf. Further circumstantial evidence that Augusta video was about 1947 IMO.

[KOC]

golfbulldog,

 

Long time no chat chat...in an interview of Henry Picard, Picard stated that in 1940, Hogan came to him saying "I am playing great..but I don't win enough. What can I do?" (indeed big hook)

 

Henry got some lessons to Hogan and rotated Hogan's left hand grip to the left...as shown in the Life image, then Hogan in that summer, won 5 titles.

 

In 1948, Hogan dedicated his first book to Picard. You are so right, the Life image grip photo you linked just look almost the same as in page 11, Power golf.

 

Good to have you here.

[golfbulldog]

golfbulldog,

 

Long time no chat chat...in an interview of Henry Picard, Picard stated that in 1940, Hogan came to him saying "I am playing great..but I don't win enough. What can I do?" (indeed big hook)

 

Henry got some lessons to Hogan and rotated Hogan's left hand grip to the left...as shown in the Life image, then Hogan in that summer, won 5 titles.

 

In 1948, Hogan dedicated his first book to Picard. You are so right, the Life image grip photo you linked just look almost the same as in page 11, Power golf.

 

Good to have you here.

 

Thanks for Picard details, KOC.

 

I agree with Darius that the grip in 1948 Power Golf is not the weak grip that he advocated in 1955 Life - but it seems that the grip that he used in 1947 (as per Martha Holmes photo) was similar to the Power Golf Grip and, given the fact that we know Picard helped him weaken his pre WWII grip , we must assume that his early grip was stronger than Power Golf grip.

 

I think that one of yor youtube clips has a great shot of a Hogan hook

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vke_C8AWI

 

I find it very interesting to try and follow the flight on this shot - then recreate his D plane. More footage of his misses would be great - and that early Sequoyah CC footage is great (even though I don't think I would say it was really him from the swing! who would have thought that such an ugly duckling would become the swan of 1946-55)

[tm22721]

In the older version, I get the feeling (at least it looks to me) like there is some active arm action going on (not a lot), but TO ME, it looks like that may be the case. This is why I think that, (1) he is a little more up right and takes the arms higher and (2) it looks like he is pulling a little bit more to the inside. I am sure this comment will get someone upset, but I dont intend to, it is just what it looks like to me.

This is the only swing that eliminates my over the top move. Suck the club inside then deliver it on an extreme inside path to the inside rear quadrant of the ball. My neck position stays steady so rotation around the cervical spine is textbook. There is no ball side spin so it goes dead straight down target line. Extremely unintuitive. It feels as if you are swinging at a right angle to the target line (but you aren't).