What's next for the lpga???

DavePelz4 · March 24, 2009

And to the folks that have questioned the "preferences/orientation" of LPGA members consider that there were NFL players like Esra Tuaolo, Dave Pupay, Roy Simmons and John Amiaci in the NBA that had different preferences than you. Did you really stop watching football in Sundays because one guy slapped another's arse? Has there been a better shot ever in competition than Karrie Webb holing a wedge on the 18th hole of a major to force a playoff?

While I really dont care all that much, and dont know how valid of an argument the lesbian tendency of the lpga is - one poster saying close to 50% on the tour and then arguing by naming 4 players from 2 leagues of hundreds of players - where at least 1 and probably more of the 4, came out or knowledge of their sexuality became known after they retired - is like comparing apples to oranges bowling balls

LB...apparently you do care because in the context of the entire discussion you've chosen to focus on one point...preference. You can't name anyone on the LPGA tour who has stated a preference. There are hundreds of women on the tour as there are hundreds of guys in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc. There is going to be a percentage in every sport that is black, white, male, female, straight, gay, has a favorite color of red, whatever.

My take is if you don't want to watch women's golf, don't watch it. I'll respect you and your choices. My guess is the advertisers and sponsors of women's events aren't marketing to your preferences anyway.

DavePelz4 · March 24, 2009

90% is a little strong....you can't tell me that Cialis holds ONLY 10%.....

I'd say it's more like 50/50.

I was referring to the commercials that advertise golf products. Sorry if I phrased that in a confusing way. Maybe 90% is a little high- there are also some commercials for FootJoy shoes- but for the most part, drivers and long flying golf balls are what golf manufacturers advertise. Even commercials for golf grips go the route of "grip it and rip it."

i was poking fun at the bathtub commercials. LOL.

Yo Crabby...you and I have agreed with each other a few times recently...what's up with that???

imsocrabby · March 24, 2009

pelz......you're one of the very few then...LOL...

DavePelz4 · March 24, 2009

pelz......you're one of the very few then...LOL...

I'll take it as a momentary lapse.

longballjs · March 24, 2009

I personally just don't enjoy womens golf - maybe its the sexist in me but i don't find it as exciting or entertaining as the PGA

Given the option I'd watch:
1. PGA Tour
2. Senior Tour
3. Nationwide tour
4. Magnum PI on DVD

How was I not surprised at all to see that someone who says this plays ALL Titleist equipment

Why?

you've already admitted that you don't like women's golf. but saying you don't care and then keeping the posting up is sort of....well you know.

Keeping the posting up is the point of a discussion board - i can very easily not care about the lpga tour and still talk about it

none of us know the numbers of gay/straight/bisexuals in any given sport.....and it doesn't really matter. this thread is about the LPGA and how it can market itself better. Sexual Orientation is the least of it's problems. We're all out of the stone age...you should try it too.

I hope you read the thread first - I have no problems with the sexual preferences...lesbians can be sexy too :)

LB...apparently you do care because in the context of the entire discussion you've chosen to focus on one point...preference. You can't name anyone on the LPGA tour who has stated a preference. There are hundreds of women on the tour as there are hundreds of guys in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc. There is going to be a percentage in every sport that is black, white, male, female, straight, gay, has a favorite color of red, whatever.

My take is if you don't want to watch women's golf, don't watch it. I'll respect you and your choices. My guess is the advertisers and sponsors of women's events aren't marketing to your preferences anyway.

No, I only focused on that part of your discussion because I did not agree with your logic or rationale in light of the previously raised comment (whether or not 50% is even close to a legitimate estimate). The part of the entire discussion that I chose to focus on was how i felt it were different from other tours, similar to the wnba, and how more sex appeal might increase the tour's marketability

I don't know what they market or who they market to as I obviously don't watch

But why not stop arguing about something that has no relevancy to the success/failure of the lpga tour and get back to topic - goodnight

ac130nav · March 25, 2009

An estimate of more than 50% lesbians is a flawed application of probability. A block of a couple hundred simply will not deviate to that extreme from the societal norm.

In Las Vegas I'm undefeated in man-to-man bets, something like 12 for 12, and it's always been a case like that, an extreme overstatement. Like when a home run hitter gets traded to a friendly ball park and suddenly the conventional wisdom is his tally will jump 50% or more. That's what the Jim Rome types thrill to spew, playing to the bar stool crowd. Just give me the under and I'll take my chances on normalcy prevailing. Same thing in this case, although obviously there is no way to establish actual percentage.

What is the societal norm for gays? I believe it is somewhere around 10%, give or take a few. I would be willing to state in a man-to-man bet the percentage would be closer to 50% than the “societal norm” of gays on LPGA Tour. I would stand by my statement as being accurate. First, the information comes from a good source, a former player and current teaching Pro. Second, having attended several LPGA Tournaments there is a high draw of gay women at the gate (same for the WNBA), the women’s first Major in Palm Springs is the “spring break” for lesbians. It didn’t just happen because a bunch of straight women with their boyfriends, husbands and families were playing golf in town. As for the “societal norm,” have you ever been to a women’s softball tournament? The number of gay women participating far exceeds the “societal norm,” the same would be true for Professional Golf. If not so, only 1of the 10 women on the field would be gay, simple observation tells me different. Plus, my wife played college softball and half the women on the team were gay, way above the “societal norm.”

All that being said, I stated it is an underlying problem for the LPGA, spoken or not. Right or wrong. You can do a story and put pictures of Tiger Woods and his family in Golf Digest, but if you did a story and pictures of some LPGA player and her life partner the letters to editor and cancellations would be rampant. The gay issue causes Corporate America to pause is all I’m saying. JMO.

Awsi Dooger · March 25, 2009

What is the societal norm for gays? I believe it is somewhere around 10%, give or take a few. I would be willing to state in a man-to-man bet the percentage would be closer to 50% than the “societal norm” of gays on LPGA Tour. I would stand by my statement as being accurate. First, the information comes from a good source, a former player and current teaching Pro. Second, having attended several LPGA Tournaments there is a high draw of gay women at the gate (same for the WNBA), the women’s first Major in Palm Springs is the “spring break” for lesbians. It didn’t just happen because a bunch of straight women with their boyfriends, husbands and families were playing golf in town. As for the “societal norm,” have you ever been to a women’s softball tournament? The number of gay women participating far exceeds the “societal norm,” the same would be true for Professional Golf. If not so, only 1of the 10 women on the field would be gay, simple observation tells me different. Plus, my wife played college softball and half the women on the team were gay, way above the “societal norm.”

All that being said, I stated it is an underlying problem for the LPGA, spoken or not. Right or wrong. You can do a story and put pictures of Tiger Woods and his family in Golf Digest, but if you did a story and pictures of some LPGA player and her life partner the letters to editor and cancellations would be rampant. The gay issue causes Corporate America to pause is all I’m saying. JMO.

Your friend may be a good source in terms of same occupation but she's making a typical error, trying to impress a point to an outsider and wildly exaggerating the math in the process.

There are fewer gays than conventional wisdom in women's sports. My dad was a psychology and sociology professor for 40+ years and I remember reading several related papers and chapters. The women in those fields, like softball, often have body types that are not the most confidence inspiring to begin with, in terms of dating, and the needs of the sport can push them further in that direction. Obviously this is slippery territory on a forum like this one. I'm trying to summarize what I read years ago but I can't find the sources. Consequently, those women often begin dating later than typical, and sometimes not at all. Meanwhile, a straight teammate or friend will see a woman in her 20s or later, not in a relationship and spending the bulk of her time having fun with female teammates, and assume she is gay. It's lousy handicapping.

But in that regard it's not much different than the friends of mine, who see a 35 home run guy switch to a new ballpark and all of a sudden proclaim he's going to smack 60 next year. I tell him he's nuts and we end up betting with an over/under of 50. Meanwhile, an actual betting line would be something like 40. He's giving me massively the best of it and doesn't even realize it.

Same thing here. If you had estimated 20 or 25% I wouldn't have peeped, even though I certainly would favor the under. There are going to be fewer gays in male sports than the societal norm, and a higher percentage of gay females. But not to exponential extremes. There's an incredible burden to that 50%. That's what I'm saying. It's not widely understood. If you ran it down person by person among a large sample size it would quickly be gulp apparent that the foundational aspect of typical percentage of gays in society is more relevant than the field in question.

Sigh. This is a roundabout. In sports and politics the debate ends in an actual result, to button the argument. No such potential here.

DavePelz4 · March 25, 2009

What is the societal norm for gays? I believe it is somewhere around 10%, give or take a few. I would be willing to state in a man-to-man bet the percentage would be closer to 50% than the “societal norm” of gays on LPGA Tour. I would stand by my statement as being accurate. First, the information comes from a good source, a former player and current teaching Pro. Second, having attended several LPGA Tournaments there is a high draw of gay women at the gate (same for the WNBA), the women’s first Major in Palm Springs is the “spring break” for lesbians. It didn’t just happen because a bunch of straight women with their boyfriends, husbands and families were playing golf in town. As for the “societal norm,” have you ever been to a women’s softball tournament? The number of gay women participating far exceeds the “societal norm,” the same would be true for Professional Golf. If not so, only 1of the 10 women on the field would be gay, simple observation tells me different. Plus, my wife played college softball and half the women on the team were gay, way above the “societal norm.”

All that being said, I stated it is an underlying problem for the LPGA, spoken or not. Right or wrong. You can do a story and put pictures of Tiger Woods and his family in Golf Digest, but if you did a story and pictures of some LPGA player and her life partner the letters to editor and cancellations would be rampant. The gay issue causes Corporate America to pause is all I’m saying. JMO.

Your friend may be a good source in terms of same occupation but she's making a typical error, trying to impress a point to an outsider and wildly exaggerating the math in the process.

There are fewer gays than conventional wisdom in women's sports. My dad was a psychology and sociology professor for 40+ years and I remember reading several related papers and chapters. The women in those fields, like softball, often have body types that are not the most confidence inspiring to begin with, in terms of dating, and the needs of the sport can push them further in that direction. Obviously this is slippery territory on a forum like this one. I'm trying to summarize what I read years ago but I can't find the sources. Consequently, those women often begin dating later than typical, and sometimes not at all. Meanwhile, a straight teammate or friend will see a woman in her 20s or later, not in a relationship and spending the bulk of her time having fun with female teammates, and assume she is gay. It's lousy handicapping.

But in that regard it's not much different than the friends of mine, who see a 35 home run guy switch to a new ballpark and all of a sudden proclaim he's going to smack 60 next year. I tell him he's nuts and we end up betting with an over/under of 50. Meanwhile, an actual betting line would be something like 40. He's giving me massively the best of it and doesn't even realize it.

Same thing here. If you had estimated 20 or 25% I wouldn't have peeped, even though I certainly would favor the under. There are going to be fewer gays in male sports than the societal norm, and a higher percentage of gay females. But not to exponential extremes. There's an incredible burden to that 50%. That's what I'm saying. It's not widely understood. If you ran it down person by person among a large sample size it would quickly be gulp apparent that the foundational aspect of typical percentage of gays in society is more relevant than the field in question.

Sigh. This is a roundabout. In sports and politics the debate ends in an actual result, to button the argument. No such potential here.

Awsi...your direction with the topic is a great one. Candace Parker is now considered the sexiest woman in the WNBA and she's about to be a mom. Brandi Chastain (thanks I'm so...) pulled her shirt off and was the darling of the soccer world and she's a mom. Jenny Finch was on posters for both men and young women all over the world because of her softball prowess and she's now a mom. Anika was the best in the world and is about to be a mom. You can make the numbers and the math say whatever you want.

So to again go back to the OP...make it a global game...push talent...push the game...make the pro-am's much more accessible to the average 14 HDCP'er...market the game in second tier cities in the US where there are no other professional events...make it easier to meet Paula than it is to meet Tiger. The more the game is personal and the more people are pulled into the LPGA because of their personal experience, the higher the ratings for the LPGA will go. It's not difficult...