Casio camera thread

[midgiteyehigh]

There was a thread about swing capture and it turned into a which Casio is best. I can't seem to find it.

 

thanks in advance

[Hoselfade]

I can tell you from my own experience that the Casio EX-F1 produces the best quality slow motion movies. BUT it is also the most expensive of the bunch and LARGE. You want to carry it in your pocket? Go with the smaller ones. You want the best slomo quality? Go with the EX-F1 and use a tripod.

[DeaconEsq]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...40&start=40

[larrybud]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=227475

 

But this might be good to break that discussion off into this thread, no?

 

From what I can tell (I did a fair amount of research before buying the FH20), the main differences between the Fc100 and FH20:

 

Optical Zoom:

FC100: 5X

FH20: 20x

 

Continuous Shooting Mode (where you push the button once and several pics are taken)

FC100: 30fps at 6 megapixel

FH20: 40fps at 7 megapixel

 

I don't know if the FC100 has it, but the FH20 can also be set up with a first in/first out buffer. So you could set it up so that you hold down the button half way, and the buffer starts recording, say 25 frames. Then once the button is fully pressed, the remaining 15 pictures will be taken. This way, if you're a little slow on the take, you won't miss the action.

 

This feature is not a movie, but several stills taken one after another.

 

Resolution:

Resolution of both is 480x360 at 210 fps.

 

LCD

Fc100: 2.7"

FH20: 3"

 

I don't know about the FC100, but the FH20 has an EXCELLENT LCD screen. I have reviewed golf swings in the middle of the day with the sun hitting the screen, and had no problem viewing.

 

Size:

The FC100 is much smaller: 5 oz

FH20: 17 oz.

 

------------

My review:

So I've played around with the FC20 for a week or so and am very impressed. I'll get some vids posted as soon as I have some time. First note that I'm not a photographer, and really don't know the full features of what's out there on other models. I'm looking at this mostly as a camera for golf, but it certainly is an all in one.

 

This camera, and it looks like almost all cameras nowadays, use an SD card for it's memory. I bought a 16 gig (!!!) card for around $32 from Amazon, which also came with a USB adapter. Some card readers built into computers won't read over 4 or 8 gig, even with a driver update. Note that you need a "Class 6" card, which is a faster variety. Before my card came I tried my standard 2 gig card in the camera, and it wasn't fast enough for the high speed capture, and it would drop frames. Once I put the faster card in, it works great.

 

4 GIG Limitation

At first I thought it was a Casio bug in their firmware, but it turns out AVI files cannot be larger than 4 gig in size (once I read that, that lost tidbit of info in my memory was refreshed). The problem is, if you're recording long times of high speed or High Def Video, you're limited on the amount of time that one "take" can be. HS can be around 11 minutes, High Def about 18 minutes.

 

I really think Casio should update their firmware to seemlessly transistion to a new file so that your video does not stop after this limit. I don't think filming more than 18 minutes of high def in one take is out of the question. I wrote to Casio about this limitation... who knows, maybe they'll update their firmware to handle this (if they did I'd be a customer for life!)

 

Another great feature is that the FH20 takes standard AA rechargable batteries. You can buy a 4 pack from your local drug store for about $12. Heck of a lot better than some cameras which have proprietary $50-$75 battery backs. The battery life seems quite good, but I'm sure much of it has to do with how much or little zooming you're doing, since that's actually moving a motor, which would draw more power.

 

As a still camera, it has some cool features such as the Continuous shooting mode. The quality of the photos are OK, but not as good as my Canon Powershot (I can't recall what model I have....). But with the 20x optical, I have definitely captured some pics that I wouldn't have with the Canon at 6x optical. The colors just seem to be a little fuzzier than I would have expected, but I need to jack up the quality setting as well to get a better comparison.

 

The High Def video option will record 720p (1280x720) at 30fps. It's pretty decent video, but don't expect your shots to look like The Masters or CSI. You also have the problem of playing back video on your high def TV. You'll have to have a computer hooked up, as the Casio has no provision of playing back high def video through the camera. That would have been a cool thing to have, but every little feature they would have added would have increase cost and size of the camera.

 

The High Speed is quite cool. You have different frame rate settings

30-210fps

210fps

420fps

1000fps

 

The 30-210 fps allows you to change the frame rate *on the fly* while recording. Note that if you're shooting in this mode, you're automatically at the 480x360 resolution, so it's not like you'd get full resolution at 30fps.

 

I think the 210 is what most people would use for everyday swing analysis. At 30 FPS, a lot of information would be missed on the downswing. The clubhead (depending on your clubhead speed) would go from about 3 or 4 o'clock position to impact. In other words, the clubhead would travel 2-3 feet between frames.

 

At 210fps, an object moves about 8 inches at 100mph. At 30fps, an object moves about 58"!!! Yes, you may still miss impact, but you'll get VERY close to it at 210fps.

 

Note that any high speed video requires a lot of light, so using it in a dome is out of the question. The FH20 forces a minimum shutter speed depending on the frame rate, but I usually stick the shutter speed at 1/1000 or 1/1650 when doing 210fps, depending on the light level. I was even too dark in my house to record putting when using incadescant bulbs.

 

Quick side note on that: Many people don't realize, but fluorescent bulbs flicker 120 times per second (in the US our power is 110V, 60hz). In Europe the flicker rate would be 100 times per second (they're on 220, 50hz). So if you're recording high speed video under fluorescents, you will have a LOT of flicker in your recordings!

 

You can play back the video on the camera using some built in on screen controls to playback at 30fps (which means you're seeing things 7x slower than normal at 210fps). You can also pause, FF, and rewind the playback all on the LCD screen. You can also zoom in on a section of the video. It's all very usable, but certainly not as good as having a laptop and analysis software right there.

 

Speaking of which... I use CSwing, and it handles this video just like any other, because the playback rate is 30fps. One problem, however, is that you cannot play the swing back at full speed.

 

You connect the camera to your computer either with the USB cable, or by popping out the card and inserting it into your laptop. I haven't run a speed comparison, but both ways were pretty fast. I could even do the swing analysis when leaving the video file on the card, so there was no need to copy the file over. You cannot keep the camera connected to the computer and film at the same time though.

 

Also, the proprietary USB connection on the camera has a lot to be desired. It's difficult to insert into the camera. I don't know why companies insist on coming up with proprietary connections. The USB cable that comes with the camera is maybe 18-24" long, so hooking up a laptop at the range is pretty much out of the question.

 

Thankfully, the design of the camera is so that you can pop the card out without having to take it off the tripod mount, so that's what I've been doing. Only takes a second.

 

 

Some things I don't like:

The AVI limit, which limits recording time per "take".

 

No carrying case! C'mon! I had to drop 25 bucks at BestBuy for a case.

 

The LCD screen is in a fixed position. This is fine for a still camera, but it can be a little bit of a pain with video recording. You're generally not going to put the camera at eye level when recording your swing. More like waist high. So when viewing back on the camera, you'll have to bend down. Ideally you'll have a chair handy.

 

On my old Canon video camera you also could flip the view finder around, so it was easy to frame myself in while standing at the location of where I was going to hit the balls. A little more trial and error with this camera.

 

I also wish the screen was recessed just a bit, maybe 1/8" or so. It just seems like it's very exposed, and may get scratched easily.

 

All in all, if you're into analysis and need a camera, this line of Casios is the one to get. There's really nothing else out there at this point for under $500, it's really quite remarkable... there must be some big-wig at Casio that likes to golf and video himself!

 

Anyway, I'll try and get some video and stills up for everyone to take a look at.

[DeaconEsq]

Is there a DVCam (digital camcorder) that can do high fps? Even 210 fps would be fine.

 

The Casios are nice, but I'd prefer a dedicated dvcam to another camera.

[larrybud]

No, but what's the difference? This IS a digital camcorder, which happens to be a good still camera, and it does high def!

[DeaconEsq]

No, but what's the difference? This IS a digital camcorder, which happens to be a good still camera, and it does high def!

 

Well, besides the fact I already have a camera (or 3 :P), I'm concerned about size, and the position of the viewfinder. With a dvcam it's fairly easy to flip the viewfinder so I can see it while I film myself.

 

And it just seems odd that NO ONE seems to make a digital camcorder that can do the same thing the casio line of cameras do.

[midgiteyehigh]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=227475

 

But this might be good to break that discussion off into this thread, no?

 

From what I can tell (I did a fair amount of research before buying the FH20), the main differences between the Fc100 and FH20:

 

Optical Zoom:

FC100: 5X

FH20: 20x

 

Continuous Shooting Mode (where you push the button once and several pics are taken)

FC100: 30fps at 6 megapixel

FH20: 40fps at 7 megapixel

 

I don't know if the FC100 has it, but the FH20 can also be set up with a first in/first out buffer. So you could set it up so that you hold down the button half way, and the buffer starts recording, say 25 frames. Then once the button is fully pressed, the remaining 15 pictures will be taken. This way, if you're a little slow on the take, you won't miss the action.

 

This feature is not a movie, but several stills taken one after another.

 

Resolution:

Resolution of both is 480x360 at 210 fps.

 

LCD

Fc100: 2.7"

FH20: 3"

 

I don't know about the FC100, but the FH20 has an EXCELLENT LCD screen. I have reviewed golf swings in the middle of the day with the sun hitting the screen, and had no problem viewing.

 

Size:

The FC100 is much smaller: 5 oz

FH20: 17 oz.

 

------------

My review:

So I've played around with the FC20 for a week or so and am very impressed. I'll get some vids posted as soon as I have some time. First note that I'm not a photographer, and really don't know the full features of what's out there on other models. I'm looking at this mostly as a camera for golf, but it certainly is an all in one.

 

This camera, and it looks like almost all cameras nowadays, use an SD card for it's memory. I bought a 16 gig (!!!) card for around $32 from Amazon, which also came with a USB adapter. Some card readers built into computers won't read over 4 or 8 gig, even with a driver update. Note that you need a "Class 6" card, which is a faster variety. Before my card came I tried my standard 2 gig card in the camera, and it wasn't fast enough for the high speed capture, and it would drop frames. Once I put the faster card in, it works great.

 

4 GIG Limitation

At first I thought it was a Casio bug in their firmware, but it turns out AVI files cannot be larger than 4 gig in size (once I read that, that lost tidbit of info in my memory was refreshed). The problem is, if you're recording long times of high speed or High Def Video, you're limited on the amount of time that one "take" can be. HS can be around 11 minutes, High Def about 18 minutes.

 

I really think Casio should update their firmware to seemlessly transistion to a new file so that your video does not stop after this limit. I don't think filming more than 18 minutes of high def in one take is out of the question. I wrote to Casio about this limitation... who knows, maybe they'll update their firmware to handle this (if they did I'd be a customer for life!)

 

Another great feature is that the FH20 takes standard AA rechargable batteries. You can buy a 4 pack from your local drug store for about $12. Heck of a lot better than some cameras which have proprietary $50-$75 battery backs. The battery life seems quite good, but I'm sure much of it has to do with how much or little zooming you're doing, since that's actually moving a motor, which would draw more power.

 

As a still camera, it has some cool features such as the Continuous shooting mode. The quality of the photos are OK, but not as good as my Canon Powershot (I can't recall what model I have....). But with the 20x optical, I have definitely captured some pics that I wouldn't have with the Canon at 6x optical. The colors just seem to be a little fuzzier than I would have expected, but I need to jack up the quality setting as well to get a better comparison.

 

The High Def video option will record 720p (1280x720) at 30fps. It's pretty decent video, but don't expect your shots to look like The Masters or CSI. You also have the problem of playing back video on your high def TV. You'll have to have a computer hooked up, as the Casio has no provision of playing back high def video through the camera. That would have been a cool thing to have, but every little feature they would have added would have increase cost and size of the camera.

 

The High Speed is quite cool. You have different frame rate settings

30-210fps

210fps

420fps

1000fps

 

The 30-210 fps allows you to change the frame rate *on the fly* while recording. Note that if you're shooting in this mode, you're automatically at the 480x360 resolution, so it's not like you'd get full resolution at 30fps.

 

I think the 210 is what most people would use for everyday swing analysis. At 30 FPS, a lot of information would be missed on the downswing. The clubhead (depending on your clubhead speed) would go from about 3 or 4 o'clock position to impact. In other words, the clubhead would travel 2-3 feet between frames.

 

At 210fps, an object moves about 8 inches at 100mph. At 30fps, an object moves about 58"!!! Yes, you may still miss impact, but you'll get VERY close to it at 210fps.

 

Note that any high speed video requires a lot of light, so using it in a dome is out of the question. The FH20 forces a minimum shutter speed depending on the frame rate, but I usually stick the shutter speed at 1/1000 or 1/1650 when doing 210fps, depending on the light level. I was even too dark in my house to record putting when using incadescant bulbs.

 

Quick side note on that: Many people don't realize, but fluorescent bulbs flicker 120 times per second (in the US our power is 110V, 60hz). In Europe the flicker rate would be 100 times per second (they're on 220, 50hz). So if you're recording high speed video under fluorescents, you will have a LOT of flicker in your recordings!

 

You can play back the video on the camera using some built in on screen controls to playback at 30fps (which means you're seeing things 7x slower than normal at 210fps). You can also pause, FF, and rewind the playback all on the LCD screen. You can also zoom in on a section of the video. It's all very usable, but certainly not as good as having a laptop and analysis software right there.

 

Speaking of which... I use CSwing, and it handles this video just like any other, because the playback rate is 30fps. One problem, however, is that you cannot play the swing back at full speed.

 

You connect the camera to your computer either with the USB cable, or by popping out the card and inserting it into your laptop. I haven't run a speed comparison, but both ways were pretty fast. I could even do the swing analysis when leaving the video file on the card, so there was no need to copy the file over. You cannot keep the camera connected to the computer and film at the same time though.

 

Also, the proprietary USB connection on the camera has a lot to be desired. It's difficult to insert into the camera. I don't know why companies insist on coming up with proprietary connections. The USB cable that comes with the camera is maybe 18-24" long, so hooking up a laptop at the range is pretty much out of the question.

 

Thankfully, the design of the camera is so that you can pop the card out without having to take it off the tripod mount, so that's what I've been doing. Only takes a second.

 

 

Some things I don't like:

The AVI limit, which limits recording time per "take".

 

No carrying case! C'mon! I had to drop 25 bucks at BestBuy for a case.

 

The LCD screen is in a fixed position. This is fine for a still camera, but it can be a little bit of a pain with video recording. You're generally not going to put the camera at eye level when recording your swing. More like waist high. So when viewing back on the camera, you'll have to bend down. Ideally you'll have a chair handy.

 

On my old Canon video camera you also could flip the view finder around, so it was easy to frame myself in while standing at the location of where I was going to hit the balls. A little more trial and error with this camera.

 

I also wish the screen was recessed just a bit, maybe 1/8" or so. It just seems like it's very exposed, and may get scratched easily.

 

All in all, if you're into analysis and need a camera, this line of Casios is the one to get. There's really nothing else out there at this point for under $500, it's really quite remarkable... there must be some big-wig at Casio that likes to golf and video himself!

 

Anyway, I'll try and get some video and stills up for everyone to take a look at.

 

Wow! Dude you spent some time on this. Very much appreciated.

[pure285]

Wow Great info. anyone know were to find the casio ex-f1 or the fh-20 for the best price I saw the ex-f1 on cameraattic.com for 899.99

[Deadpool_25]

Kudos larrybud. GREAT review. The FH20 is on my list of must haves. Thanks!

[MrMorganUSC]

I got the FC100 and so far so good.

 

I videoed some of my buddies......using my J33R as a stand on the tee...hehe

 

I am not very knowledgeable about camera at all so I don't know what some of the settings are under the menu button and the instructions that come with it don't tell you.......so i have to play around with it to figure those out.

 

Scott

[iteachgolf]

I chose the FC100 due to price and size. It is easier to carry during playing lessons and lighter. Specs are similar and plenty good enough for me. Ill be doing pretty much all my lessons at 210 FPS.

[larrybud]

Wow Great info. anyone know were to find the casio ex-f1 or the fh-20 for the best price I saw the ex-f1 on cameraattic.com for 899.99

Be SUPER careful about buying consumer electronics online. There's a line of stores out of NY or NJ who are complete ripoff artists. Almost always, they come up with the lowest prices on the search engines. For some reason these guys usually specialize in cameras.

 

Do yourself a favor and go to

 

www.resellerratings.com

 

to see reviews of online shops. Many of these guys perform the ol' bait and switch. They'll tell you to call them after your order has been placed to do a hard sell, ship you wrong versions of the camera, lots of shady stuff.

 

In fact, I tried to look up your store name, but it wasn't listed. I'd be VERY wary of that.

Here's an example of some of the ripoff artists:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Camera_Addict

[nickpoz]

I got my FH20 at Best Buy a month ago for 475. There is a great review of the cameras on http://www.mytpi.com/ check out the featured articles page. It gives some great comparisons.

 

THanks for teling us about the flickering, I was wondering what caused it :)

[martinez]

My thanks to Larrybud for that great comprehensive review. I'm going to get the FH-20 next week. I'll have 12 days off golf to figure out how to use it. :D

[nickpoz]

My thanks to Larrybud for that great comprehensive review. I'm going to get the FH-20 next week. I'll have 12 days off golf to figure out how to use it. :D

very easy to use. I still havent used the instructions yet :)

[DeaconEsq]

Be SUPER careful about buying consumer electronics online. There's a line of stores out of NY or NJ who are complete ripoff artists. Almost always, they come up with the lowest prices on the search engines. For some reason these guys usually specialize in cameras.

 

Do yourself a favor and go to

 

www.resellerratings.com

 

to see reviews of online shops. Many of these guys perform the ol' bait and switch. They'll tell you to call them after your order has been placed to do a hard sell, ship you wrong versions of the camera, lots of shady stuff.

 

In fact, I tried to look up your store name, but it wasn't listed. I'd be VERY wary of that.

Here's an example of some of the ripoff artists:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Camera_Addict

 

Dead on. Be VERY careful of some of the online retailers...especially if the price is too good to be true.

 

For camera equipment, 3 of the more reputable and reliable ones are: adorama.com, bhphotovideo.com, and abes of maine. No matter what, check resellerratings before you make a purchase.

[Body_Visions]

Hoganfan has the FC 100 and it is all most would ever need.

[DeaconEsq]

Yay I ordered my FC-100 today. Can't wait for it to get here!!

 

I still opted to get the FC-100 because of the compact size and because I needed a new point and shoot anyway. But, Sanyo makes a dvcam that does 300 fps @ 448 x 336 It's the Xacti HD1010: films at 1080i and costs around $500.

 

It's a decent alternative if you want slo-mo in a digital camcorder format.

[bacc]

One other difference between the FH20 and the FC100 that may be important for some:

 

The lens on the FH20 is wider at the bottom end of the range (26mm on the FH20 vs 37mm for the FC100) which means you can put the camera closer and still get the full swing in frame. For folks recording in tight quarters, this will be important.

[Bomb500Plus!]

Yay I ordered my FC-100 today. Can't wait for it to get here!!

 

I still opted to get the FC-100 because of the compact size and because I needed a new point and shoot anyway.

 

I have the FC-100 too. It's definitely small enough to be a pocket point and shoot. That's one of the things that drew me in...if it was big, I couldn't really justify the purchase. But since it's small, it's so versatile and I'll use it much more often.

[jimmyc8000]

Amazon has these cameras for $459.99, I have had very good luck with them. I have had this camera for 3 months and I am amazed at all the cool features this camera offers. Another item to consider is a 16 GB SD card which is a must for this camera. I can honestly say that filming in the 210 fps mode is way more than enough to get a real good look at your swing but that is just one of the features of this camera. You guys will like it

[UTGolf73]

When filiming in say 30-210 mode, is it true that you when you go back and review the video, you can click the shutter to then get a still frame picture out of that video?

 

Sorry...Total fancy camera newbie!!!

[MrMorganUSC]

Is their any instructions out there that go more in depth about the features of this camera unlike the instructions that come with it?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[js1010]

Hello, just ordered the FC100 and am looking at buying a 16 Gig Memory card for it.

 

I see there are different speeds of memory cards and wanted to see what others have purchased that will work correctly in it. Manual says its SDHC compliant - want to make sure I can take advantage of the high speed rates for video with the memory card I end up with.

 

 

I was looking at a Transend 16 gig Class 6 card at Amazon and wanted to know if anyone has this one or can recommend another one that is working fine with this camera.

 

Does anyone know if buying the Sandisk Extreme III which is about 3 times the cost of the one I mention above has any advantages besides maybe transferring the images to the computer faster.

 

thanks

[jimmyc8000]

I have been using the sandisk II and it works fine for me. A friend of mine also purchased this camera with the transcend 16 and it does everything he needs it to do without any problems. I also have one of thin a those sandisk III cards in a 4GB and I don't see a noticeable difference between the supposed cheap card and the mega expensive card but that it just my opinion. I can't wait to go to a professional ball game to really try this puppy out

[bacc]

I was looking at a Transend 16 gig Class 6 card at Amazon and wanted to know if anyone has this one or can recommend another one that is working fine with this camera.

 

I bought the 16GB Transcend Class 6 card at http://www.newegg.com for $35 and it works fine with my FH20.

[aviator]

So does the Casio do a whole lot better job of recording the golf swing than a MiniDV camcorder that shoots in "sports" mode or higher FPS?

[iteachgolf]

Sports mode changes shutter speed. It does not increase the framerate of the camera. Most mini dv cameras are only capable of 60 fps. These are way better and can offer more information than a mini dv can.

[nickpoz]

Sports mode changes shutter speed. It does not increase the framerate of the camera. Most mini dv cameras are only capable of 60 fps. These are way better and can offer more information than a mini dv can.

Ive heard or thought most only captured 30 fps. Either way there are many gaps in a recorded swing.