Casio camera thread

[Chas Tennis]

Here are some settings for an FH100. Don't know if the FH25 has the same quirk as the FH100 - do not leave ISO setting on "auto" if you get unusually dark videos.

[quote name='Chas Tennis' timestamp='1299614590' post='3037425']
That show-how is great, the perfect way to display! I wish I had seen it before starting to use the camera.

The settings are good for the mentioned software but the 1/2000 will show some blur.

For a 100MPH golf club 1/2000 sec produces Motion blur of 1760 in/s X 1/2000 s -- almost an inch of blur. That is OK for most stroke analysis, I guess.

Outdoors there is plenty of light to be able to use faster shutter speeds. For outdoor video with the FH100 sample settings that produce small motion blur :

[b]MANUAL[/b]
[b]Aperture[/b]: f/3.2 or max aperture
[b]Frame Rate:[/b] HS 240 fps
[b]Shutter speed:[/b] 1/10,000 sec
[b]ISO[/b] - 1600 for starters (if the video is too bright use 800, if too dark use 3200, etc). DO NOT LEAVE ISO ON AUTO but set it manually as the FH100 will probably produce very dark videos because it chooses a lower ISO such as 200?

The idea is to use the fastest shutter speed possible and adjust ISO to get video with the smallest motion blur. Indoors the lighting is not enough and slow shutters must be used. Motion blur cannot be avoided with say 1/1000s shutter speeds.

The FH100 also shows moderate [i]Jello Effect[/i] that will make golf clubs appear curved regardless of the frame rate or shutter speed.

Chas Tennis
[/quote]

[Hstead]

I use the setting iteach recommended, which are apeture 2.8, shutter as high as i can go, at least 1/8000 and usually 1/40,000 when sun is bright, 120 fps, 1600 ISO.

[Chas Tennis]

referring to a Canon Powershot ELPH 110 HS model --

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1364928675' post='6745661']
I like it. It is really easy to use and the editing is slick. The down side with this camera is that you need sunlight for the Auto to select 1/2000 shutter or else you wind up with a blurry shaft. So on overcast days, it is limited. I use a SD Card reader with the laptop and iPad and it is cake to transfer videos fast so you can use V1 etc. I have only used it a few times but on sunny days I like it quite a bit. It serves the purpose for me and what I do.
[i][color=#ff0000]Youtube link not appearing. ?? Click link above on quote to see reply #781. [/color][/i]

This is 240 fps on a sunny day - youtube doesn't look as good as the camera LCD or computer. The LCD on the camera is really bright so you can see it well in the sun which is a plus too.


[/quote]

There is a need for a very low cost camera to get some high speed video. And maybe bright sunlight is needed also.....

Some people, as above, have said that they get good results using Canon Powershot ELPH HS cameras.

I have not used a Canon Powershot ELPH model. [b] Not all ELPH HS models have high speed video.[/b] From the specs of the models with HSV, there are some limitations:

1) Only records for nominally 30 seconds. (A trigger delay is adjustable up to 30 seconds to allow you to get in front of the camera and even practice a few swings.)
2) Resolution at 240 fps only 320 X 240, at 120 fps 640 X 480
3) Automatic exposure control that probably can set a shutter speed as fast as 1/2000 sec in bright sunlight. But actually it is unknown without testing. In less light - ??
4) When I have looked at the videos of Canon Powershot HS models in high speed video mode, the Youtube videos have looked blotchy with the contrast a little too overdone. See the contrast in the video in the quoted reply above.

Update 8/25/2013 - Now that I have the camera the videos do look better on the camera and PC than on the Youtubes as Hstead noted above.

I found an instructional video that discusses a setting [i]"i-Contrast" [/i]that might bear on the blotchy contrast.
Canon Powershot HS cameras instructional video. At 4:07 it discusses the contrast.





[color=#ff0000][i]Youtube link not appearing ?? Graham Houghton - Understanding Canon Powershot HS Compact Digital Cameras: part 2 "P mode"[/i][/color]

It says to set the i-Contrats to "OFF". Will check if that setting also applies to high speed video mode. ? [color=#008000]Update 8/9/2013- User's manual I interpret to mean iContrast is only for stills.[/color] [color=#008000]If anyone has other information please reply. [/color]

In looking at the models and reading customer reviews, the 100 HS had an unusual number of complaints of 'lens error'. Lens errors with another model, the S100. were related to a loose connector.
[url="http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51148353%20%20The"]http://www.dpreview....t/51148353[/url]
The 110 HS seemed OK. Ideally, I wanted a used camera that was cheap to test and resell.

The 110 HS refurbished was briefly offered by Canon for $119 and I ordered one. (Earlier I had ordered a new one from a company that had a very low price for a new 110 HS but then was out of stock. Check your supplier on the internet and get any camera from a reputable seller.)

The strange and interesting price history of the Canon 110 HS -
[url="http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-powershot-elph-110/4014-6501_7-35127709.html#priceHistory"]http://reviews.cnet....ml#priceHistory[/url]

Update 8/25/2013 - Jello Effect Test, Canon Powershot ELPH 110 HS / IXUS 125 at 240 fps, view 7.9 rps rotating bars.
[url="https://vimeo.com/72531589"]https://vimeo.com/72531589[/url]

Update 8/26/2013 - Shutter Speed & Jello Effect Tests, Canon Powershot ELPH 110 HS / IXUS 125 at 240 fps, view 21 rps rotating bars & motion blur target (for measuring shutter speed - rotating bars are much faster than golf swings)
[url="https://vimeo.com/73165189"]https://vimeo.com/73165189[/url]
[url="https://vimeo.com/73165190"]https://vimeo.com/73165190[/url]
[url="https://vimeo.com/73165104"]https://vimeo.com/73165104[/url]

[Chas Tennis]

Motion Blur Tests - Canon Powershot ELPH 110 HS / IXUS 125

[b]General High Speed Video Cameras with Automatic Exposure Control.[/b] To video tennis strokes, low priced, high speed video (> 60 fps) cameras are available. The currently available cameras all have [i]automatic exposure control[/i] (AEC). The shutter speed selected by the camera's automatic exposure control might not be optimized to minimize motion blur. In other words, you often get too much motion blur with automatic exposure control cameras. The amount of motion blur from these cameras is not predictable from available information but can be tested.

[b]Canon Powershot ELPH 110 HS/ IXUS 125 Tests.[/b] I purchased a low priced Canon Powershot 110 HS / IXUS 125 camera in order to test it for tennis stroke analysis. It does 240 fps at a reduced resolution of 320 X 240.

The automatic exposure control selects the shutter speed based on the light received from the scene. The specs list the fastest shutter speed as 1/2000 sec, but it is not known if that shutter speed is reached for high speed video mode. Unfortunately, predicting the shutter speed that this camera's AEC might select is not possible without testing.

To test for shutter speed/ motion blur in direct sunlight -
1) Observed the motion blur on a rotating disc.
2) Observed the motion blur on the tennis ball and racket of a tennis serve.

[b]I found that a very important setting for minimizing motion blur was the zoom setting on the lens. The widest angle zoom aperture setting has the fastest f#, probably 2.7. The wide angle zoom produces very small motion blur in direct sunlight - see videos below. The telephoto aperture setting is probably f# 5.9 and produces significant motion blur - see videos below. It might also be important for the AEC on [/b][b]these videos[/b][b] that more skylight was accepted by the wide angle field of view than by the telephoto's field of view .[/b]

To attempt single frame advance on Vimeo press the [i]play-pause[/i] control as fast as possible. The video quality after compression on Vimeo is not as good as viewing directly on my computer or on the camera's display.

Widest angle zoom setting - small motion blur
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060780"]https://vimeo.com/74060780[/url]
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060778"]https://vimeo.com/74060778[/url]
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060705"]https://vimeo.com/74060705[/url]

Most telephoto zoom setting - considerable motion blur
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060777"]https://vimeo.com/74060777[/url]
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060779"]https://vimeo.com/74060779[/url]

These tests were under direct sunlight to get a fast shutter. With less light the motion blur will increase. See also some other Canon high speed video tests of tennis serves and also a rotating disc test to show Jello Effect and shutter speed.

This camera cost $119, refurbished, with free shipping on sale from Canon. The one I received was in like new condition. [url="http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/powershot-elph-110-hs-red-refurbished"]http://shop.usa.cano....ed-refurbished[/url]

The Canon Powershot 110 HS camera is capable of showing the fastest parts of the tennis serve with wide angle zoom setting and under favorable lighting conditions. Other Canon Powershot cameras with high speed video might work in the same way. ? Other low cost cameras with high speed video might also produce small motion blur with wide angle lens settings and in direct sunlight. ?

[Chas Tennis]

[size=5]VIMEO Stop Action Single Frame using SHIFT & the Right/Left Arrow Keys[/size]


Just learned that Vimeo has a stop-action single-frame capability using the arrow keys.

When watching a Vimeo video online you can do stop action single frame forward and backwards using the arrow keys.

Hold [b]SHIFT KEY[/b] and use the [b]RIGHT & LEFT arrows[/b].

[b]Often, however[/b], when first hitting an arrow key it may skip to the next video in the account. This may be a new Vimeo capability....?

[LaterOn61]

I just got a Casio FH20. I am confused by one aspect of the camera and this thread. I read in here that the smart minds say use 210fps and the picture quality will be outstanding. Is that 210fps with an automatic shutter speed or do you need to manually set it? When I try indoors with a SS of 1/2000 or higher I get no picture quality. It s way too dark. If I set at 210fps can I just shoot indoors and get the crisp, clear golf shaft?

[Hstead]

Probably need to set the ISO higher, like 1600.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='LaterOn61' timestamp='1390970157' post='8555913']
I just got a Casio FH20. I am confused by one aspect of the camera and this thread. I read in here that the smart minds say use 210fps and the picture quality will be outstanding. Is that 210fps with an automatic shutter speed or do you need to manually set it? When I try indoors with a SS of 1/2000 or higher I get no picture quality. It s way too dark. If I set at 210fps can I just shoot indoors and get the crisp, clear golf shaft?
[/quote]

Bumping ISO will allow a little more light in but the picture will flicker, kind of like old time movies. You have to have A TON of light (T5 Fluorescent are usually the go to for this) to get good indoor results comparable to outdoor.

[LaterOn61]

I saw in the thread where Iteach had an indoor video that looked fine.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='LaterOn61' timestamp='1390973765' post='8556219']
I saw in the thread where Iteach had an indoor video that looked fine.
[/quote]

I don't know if he was using his FH20/25 in that video or not…..notice it had sound too? I own an EX-F1 and I'm just telling you they need a TON of light to get good indoor high speed.

Not a plug by any means for JC Video, but he does a good job of explaining Shutter Speed and light in this video:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW91r4SZ0W0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW91r4SZ0W0[/url]

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='LaterOn61' timestamp='1390970157' post='8555913']
I just got a Casio FH20. I am confused by one aspect of the camera and this thread. I read in here that the smart minds say use 210fps and the picture quality will be outstanding. Is that 210fps with an automatic shutter speed or do you need to manually set it? When I try indoors with a SS of 1/2000 or higher I get no picture quality. It s way too dark. If I set at 210fps can I just shoot indoors and get the crisp, clear golf shaft?
[/quote]

For the fastest shutter speed indoors -

MANUAL
Largest available aperture.
Use the [i]highest [/i]ISO available -- [color=#ff0000]set manually - not AUTO[/color].
Use the [i]widest[/i] angle zoom lens setting to get the 'fastest' lens setting.
Add light.
If daytime, allow any outdoor light in through windows.
Background to contrast golfer and club - white (bed sheet) or dark?
Wear clothing that helps show things, white gloves or wrist band with a Nike symbol, etc.
Take some videos without a swing just to see how fast a shutter can be used. Will 1/2000 sec produce a useable video? Forget about attractive videos just try to see arms, club, etc..

Good indoor light levels are roughly only 1% of outdoor direct sunlight.

You probably do not have enough light for 1/2000 sec indoors but you have to test it under optimal conditions as above to see.

With my FH100 I can get about a 1/1000 sec exposure at indoor tennis courts but I had not tried it with the widest angle zoom setting. The FH100 may be more sensitive than the FH20. ??

Update 1/30/2014 - just tested my Casio FH100 in an indoor tennis court with better than average lighting. I used the widest angle zoom setting, ISO 3200, and a shutter speed of 1/2000 sec. The videos were somewhat dark but are fine for analyzing the tennis serve with small motion blur.

For extra effort you can experiment with 3M retro reflective tapes, similar to road signs. Place it on important items, club shaft, hands, etc. Light very near camera lens or behind camera.

Use the FH20 in direct sunlight and you probably can pick any shutter speed that your like. Best solution is to video in sunlight when it is warm enough to do so.

[prestiege]

anyone use the nikon L830? was playing with one in the store and with the store lighting(pretty dang bright) it seemed to do great at 240fps. from playback on built in lcd it didnt look grainy at all

[midweston]

I'm trying to use a nikon d5200, which maxes at 60 fps. Any way to get rid of motion blur on those images? Iso up high?

[Hstead]

Getting rid of blur is all about shutter speed not fps. I can get a great image at 30 fps with my shutter speed at 1/40,000 sec. The fps rating is not what is going to get rid of the blur, especially face on. You need a minimum of 1/2000 sec on great lighting and really 1/8000 sec or faster.

[midweston]

Thanks Heath. Probably lighting. I can get up to 6400 is all.

[Hstead]

[quote name='midweston' timestamp='1393803691' post='8782186']
Thanks Heath. Probably lighting. I can get up to 6400 is all.
[/quote]

1/6400 should be pretty good with decent lighting.

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='prestiege' timestamp='1393795253' post='8780168']
anyone use the nikon L830? was playing with one in the store and with the store lighting(pretty dang bright) it seemed to do great at 240fps. from playback on built in lcd it didnt look grainy at all
[/quote]

Not familiar with that model. The Nikon J1 & V1's were very limited in recording time at 240 fps, only about 5 seconds. Check that spec for your model.

[midweston]

I looked into it. We wanted a really good photo camera, and i just wanted to see video capabilities. It was iso 6400, the other measurement is up to 1/4000. It does 60fps at 720p hi def

[midweston]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1393803477' post='8782136']
Getting rid of blur is all about shutter speed not fps. I can get a great image at 30 fps with my shutter speed at 1/40,000 sec. The fps rating is not what is going to get rid of the blur, especially face on. You need a minimum of 1/2000 sec on great lighting and really 1/8000 sec or faster.
[/quote] ran out of daylight. Hopefully the warm weather will come out and ill be on the range in a week.

[Hstead]

Can you manually adjust the shutter to 1/4000? If you can then you can get decent pictures in pretty good light, but anything other than sun light might be dark.

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='midweston' timestamp='1393796273' post='8780408']
I'm trying to use a nikon d5200, which maxes at 60 fps. Any way to get rid of motion blur on those images? Iso up high?
[/quote]

I'm not familiar with your Nikon d5200. A DSLR? Some DSLR cameras have manual exposure control for 60p fps video mode. Does yours?

I found that with a Canon Powershot 110 HS, that has [i]automatic exposure control (AEC),[/i] that the shutter speed became fast when:

For minimum motion blur-
1) used in direct sunlight
2) used with the widest angle zoom setting (the 'fastest' lens setting).
3) it might also be important to have some bright sky in the background so the metering selects a faster shutter. ?

These three conditions caused the AEC to select a fast shutter with small motion blur. With the most telephoto zoom setting there was motion blur.

See Canon Camera Test for Motion Blur -
[url="http://www.kinovea.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=3059#p3059"]http://www.kinovea.o...?pid=3059#p3059[/url]

This camera [i][b]might[/b][/i] be typical of how many high speed video cameras with AEC would perform. ??

If anyone can do this test to show sharpest motion blur for their AEC camera please post your videos here and on the Kinovea site.

[midweston]

I did manually do 1/4000, but it was indoors and not mid day sunlight. Also had iso up at 6400. Still had shaft blur. Not incredibly dark.

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='midweston' timestamp='1393807420' post='8782876']
I did manually do 1/4000, but it was indoors and not mid day sunlight. Also had iso up at 6400. Still had shaft blur. Not incredibly dark.
[/quote]

If the club is going 100 MPH that's 1760"/sec. Going across or up and down in the frame, as for a side view, then the motion blur is

1760"/sec X 1/4000 sec = 0.44" of motion blur

Are you seeing more than 0.44" of motion blur? If seeing a lot more than that, double check the shutter speed and if the camera has full manual exposure control in the video mode.

There might also be shaft bending from Jello Effect distortions. ?

Also, if indoors during daylight, windows may let a lot of sun light into the room. ?

[midweston]

I had it full manual on the settings above. Had windows open. Definitely more than an inch of blur.

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='midweston' timestamp='1393810092' post='8783392']
I had it full manual on the settings above. Had windows open. Definitely more than an inch of blur.
[/quote]

I'm not familiar with the Nikon D5200. Maybe it shoots movies in AUTO even when the Dial stays on M.

Page 54 of the manual describes a SHOOTING MENU item - "Movie Settings" screen where you select for movie mode to have it use the set "Manual Movie Settings". Is that set to "ON"?

I guess this is in addition to the "M" on the dial. ?? Maybe this is done so that the manual settings can be kept for stills and the camera quickly switched to take movies using AUTO.

It also says the camera has a "Hi 2" ISO setting of 25,600. pgs 54 & 37. Can you find Hi 2 in video mode?

[prestiege]

[quote name='Chas Tennis' timestamp='1393806610' post='8782698']
[quote name='prestiege' timestamp='1393795253' post='8780168']
anyone use the nikon L830? was playing with one in the store and with the store lighting(pretty dang bright) it seemed to do great at 240fps. from playback on built in lcd it didnt look grainy at all
[/quote]

Not familiar with that model. The Nikon J1 & V1's were very limited in recording time at 240 fps, only about 5 seconds. Check that spec for your model.
[/quote]

ive been using a canon elph 520 and at 120 fps record time is 16 sec, not sure what it is on 240 as its pretty much unusable, even in sunlight i couldnt get anything good at 240. the nikon i believe was 15 sec on 120 and 10 on 240. the nikon doesnt really have any manual controls, i think i seen iso setting and that was about it but at 240 in the store flapping a sheet of paper a foot in front of the lense the image was extremely clear. i couldnt test this in the store with a simlar canon to elph 520, the nikon had some built in memory, the canon's had none

[Chas Tennis]

[quote name='prestiege' timestamp='1393845779' post='8785792']
[quote name='Chas Tennis' timestamp='1393806610' post='8782698']
[quote name='prestiege' timestamp='1393795253' post='8780168']
anyone use the nikon L830? was playing with one in the store and with the store lighting(pretty dang bright) it seemed to do great at 240fps. from playback on built in lcd it didnt look grainy at all
[/quote]

Not familiar with that model. The Nikon J1 & V1's were very limited in recording time at 240 fps, only about 5 seconds. Check that spec for your model.
[/quote]

ive been using a canon elph 520 and at 120 fps record time is 16 sec, not sure what it is on 240 as its pretty much unusable, even in sunlight i couldnt get anything good at 240. the nikon i believe was 15 sec on 120 and 10 on 240. the nikon doesnt really have any manual controls, i think i seen iso setting and that was about it but at 240 in the store flapping a sheet of paper a foot in front of the lense the image was extremely clear. i couldnt test this in the store with a simlar canon to elph 520, the nikon had some built in memory, the canon's had none
[/quote]

Here are two videos using the Canon Powershot 110 HS. (there are some earlier in this thread on the 110 HS for golf swings)
Wide angle zoom setting close up in direct sunlight (see shadows).
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060778"]https://vimeo.com/74060778[/url]

Wide angle zoom setting overall view.
[url="https://vimeo.com/74060705"]https://vimeo.com/74060705[/url]

In bright sunlight and using the wide angle zoom setting, and also some sky in the background, causes the automatic exposure control to select the AEC's fastest shutter speed.

These are not attractive videos because of the low resolution but you can see the body, tennis racket and ball with small motion blur. It works. The camera is low cost refurbished from Canon. The videos look better on my computer and the camera's LCD screen, probably due to the compression used for Vimeo storage. The 110 HS has a recording time of 30 seconds at 240 fps. It has a trigger delay of 30 seconds.

Do you get similar videos using the elph 520 in direct sunlight and with the wide angle lens?

One problem is that if a golf club has a reflective chrome shaft and head and the golfer is surrounded by grass, the contrast could be very poor because the golf club shaft is reflecting grass and the background is grass. Higher resolution would help seeing the shaft if the contrast is very poor.

[midweston]

[quote name='Chas Tennis' timestamp='1393840635' post='8785732']
[quote name='midweston' timestamp='1393810092' post='8783392']
I had it full manual on the settings above. Had windows open. Definitely more than an inch of blur.
[/quote]

I'm not familiar with the Nikon D5200. Maybe it shoots movies in AUTO even when the Dial stays on M.

Page 54 of the manual describes a SHOOTING MENU item - "Movie Settings" screen where you select for movie mode to have it use the set "Manual Movie Settings". Is that set to "ON"?

I guess this is in addition to the "M" on the dial. ?? Maybe this is done so that the manual settings can be kept for stills and the camera quickly switched to take movies using AUTO.

It also says the camera has a "Hi 2" ISO setting of 25,600. pgs 54 & 37. Can you find Hi 2 in video mode?
[/quote]
I will check this out later. Thanks!!!!

[casiofh25]

I noticed fh25 is made in china while fh20 is made in japan. i'd assume fh20 is better quality and more reliable? what do you think? how much more would you willing to pay for fh25 over fh20 used in excellent condition?

[LaterOn61]

The cable that came with my fh20 plugs into a USB connection on the PC. However, I would prefer to take my Ipad to the driving range. However, the Ipad takes the wider connection that the standard USB. Does anyone know how to plug the fh20 into an Ipad?

Also, to help maintain the batteries, is there a power chord that you can plug the camera into the wall and keep the battery power up?