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where did tiger's execution go ? no more roar


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He's not intimidating anymore, I would have to say phil is a better player right now. Tiger needs a hybrid because he cant hit long irons or mid irons. Dont understand why he hit an 8 iron in the drink on 11 in the 3rd round. He needs butch, not haney! He needs to revamp his swing again, back to what it was? Then we can see how good he can be again. :stop:

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This is the problem with being so dominante...everyone expects him to win every tournament hes in...

 

I'm sure the same thing happened to Jack in his prime...

 

Folks...he finished in the top 10 in a major AGAIN...hes won 4 Green Jackets before he turned 30...let the man be...

 

He's not going to make every putt when he needs to, hes not going to win every major, but hes always going to be in contention.

 

You can't think his "clutchness" is gone because he didnt shoot a 66 on Sunday to win in the toughest tournament there is to win.

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He's not intimidating anymore, I would have to say phil is a better player right now. Tiger needs a hybrid because he cant hit long irons or mid irons. Dont understand why he hit an 8 iron in the drink on 11 in the 3rd round. He needs butch, not haney! He needs to revamp his swing again, back to what it was? Then we can see how good he can be again. :stop:

 

why does tiger need a hybrid? look at what he did on #13 today from 240 with a 3-iron. whats a hybrid going to get him? he took the 2-iron out for a 5-wood. tiger plays some of the weakest lofted irons on tour.

 

his 8 iron ended up in drink on 11 because he pulled his shot. not even tiger can execute every shot absolutely perfect. there is nothing wrong with his swing. look how well this week and at the players he was with the driver.

 

right now, his big weakness is his putting. butch didn't have anything to do with his putting. its his dad who helped him be the great putter he is/was. i would be willing to bet my right arm that if his father were healthy enough to be there in augusta and there at the course, tiger would have put on a putting clinic.

 

the only coach tiger needs to be as dominanat as he once was is earl. its not haney, or butch or anyone else.

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I don't think its fair to act like Phil is the new man to beat. I mean I like both golfers and am extremely happy to see PM win, BUT you can't take away what Tiger has done/will do. He is the best golfer, and it will take more than one (3 now) wins to take that title away. Phil is an awesome golfer yes, but he's not Tiger... no one is.

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"This is the problem with being so dominante...everyone expects him to win every tournament hes in...

 

I'm sure the same thing happened to Jack in his prime...

 

Folks...he finished in the top 10 in a major AGAIN...hes won 4 Green Jackets before he turned 30...let the man be...

 

He's not going to make every putt when he needs to, hes not going to win every major, but hes always going to be in contention.

 

You can't think his "clutchness" is gone because he didnt shoot a 66 on Sunday to win in the toughest tournament there is to win."

 

I agree with you completely except for the fact that the Masters plays as the hardest tournament in golf. Although the dry conditions in the first two rounds and the course lengthening does add to Augusta National's difficulty, it still is not as difficult as the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open is typically played on longer and dryer courses than Augusta with much more difficult rough, therefore offering a harder challenge.

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Tiger's putting stats this year

 

Putts per GIR - 1.79 (129 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

Putts per rd - 29.73 (146 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

 

I have always found him to be a streaky putter. No where in the same league as Phil. Now that Phil is playing smart, we finally have a rivalry to look forward to at every major.

 

Not to take away anything from his victory today, but Phil is not exactly putting master either. From 10 - 20 feet I would not bet against him, but for a guy who claims to practice until he makes 100 3 footers in a row he misses more than his fair share of short ones.

 

Who has the better of Tiger and Phil in the same group over history. It's not even close.

 

The reality of today is that Phil got the Green Jacket, Tiger and Fred Couples needed an an inch here or there for about 6 putts and one of them wins by four.

 

Still, it's not a lot of fun watching Tiger these days. His new swing looks like it does not match his body type, he is not as dominant as 2000-2001. Remember winning the US Open by 15? That was another world compared to TW today.

 

For a guy has nothing left to prove other than going after Nicklaus' record of 18 majors, maybe he can mix in a major win coming from behind for once.

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The U.S. Open is typically played on longer and dryer courses than Augusta with much more difficult rough, therefore offering a harder challenge.

 

 

Longer course?

 

The only course longer than augusta national in major championship history was whistling straits and that was by a few yards, dryer course just means its shorter, when augusta got wet it got longer.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't agree that the U.S. Open is a better test of golf, I judge the type of players who rise to the top at a major as a judge of the course and I don't think there is or will ever be a better leader board than we saw at augusta on this magical sunday.

 

Adam

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He's not intimidating anymore, I would have to say phil is a better player right now. Tiger needs a hybrid because he cant hit long irons or mid irons. Dont understand why he hit an 8 iron in the drink on 11 in the 3rd round. He needs butch, not haney! He needs to revamp his swing again, back to what it was? Then we can see how good he can be again. :stop:

 

I'm sorry but it is these comments that really get on my nerves. HE DOES NOT NEED BUTCH. Tiger's swing now is much better and more consistant. Almost every single one of his misses on sunday were pin high, with the exception of a couple. Phil is not the better player right now. Tiger is struggling with his putting, not his swing. If he can't hit long or mid irons, then how do you explain two eagle putts from 12 feet or less. Tiger was in a "slump" with Butch's swing and it put waaaayy too much stress on his knee. Tiger's swing now doesn't have that stress on his knee, and he has gained more distance now. Maybe it's just me but 6 wins last year with 2 majors seems pretty good for someone who is only a year into a swing change, especially on tour.

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He's not intimidating anymore, I would have to say phil is a better player right now. Tiger needs a hybrid because he cant hit long irons or mid irons. Dont understand why he hit an 8 iron in the drink on 11 in the 3rd round. He needs butch, not haney! He needs to revamp his swing again, back to what it was? Then we can see how good he can be again. :)

 

 

:) :cheesy: :cheesy: :blink: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

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Tiger's putting stats this year

 

Putts per GIR - 1.79 (129 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

Putts per rd - 29.73 (146 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

 

I have always found him to be a streaky putter. No where in the same league as Phil. Now that Phil is playing smart, we finally have a rivalry to look forward to at every major.

 

Not to take away anything from his victory today, but Phil is not exactly putting master either. From 10 - 20 feet I would not bet against him, but for a guy who claims to practice until he makes 100 3 footers in a row he misses more than his fair share of short ones.

 

for comparison's sake....

 

Phil Mickelson

 

Putts per GIR - 1.70 (2nd out of 184 on the PGA tour)

Putts per rd - 28.61 (34th out of 184 on the PGA tour)

 

I would say Phil is a much better putter than Tiger.....much better.

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Tiger's putting stats this year

 

Putts per GIR - 1.79 (129 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

Putts per rd - 29.73 (146 out of 184 on the PGA tour)

 

I have always found him to be a streaky putter. No where in the same league as Phil. Now that Phil is playing smart, we finally have a rivalry to look forward to at every major.

 

Not to take away anything from his victory today, but Phil is not exactly putting master either. From 10 - 20 feet I would not bet against him, but for a guy who claims to practice until he makes 100 3 footers in a row he misses more than his fair share of short ones.

 

for comparison's sake....

 

Phil Mickelson

 

Putts per GIR - 1.70 (2nd out of 184 on the PGA tour)

Putts per rd - 28.61 (34th out of 184 on the PGA tour)

 

I would say Phil is a much better putter than Tiger.....much better.

 

Say it all you want. But the only stats that matter are wins and world rankings. You cannot cheat the system. TW makes more putts when they count then PM ever has.

 

TW may not be putting so great right now but if my life were on the line and I had to choose one person to make a 6 footer to save me, I would only choose TW or KascoPro. If PM were my choice, I would be dead.

 

Has TW ever 5 putted on TV? Phil has.

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Plain & simple.....putting. Tiger is not making the putts he was making in 2000 when he DOMINATED the golf world. He is a better iron player now in regards to distance control & GIR, but the putts 10 ft & under that used to be automatic, are not falling. Tiger is still #1 and will once again dominate. Phil is a great player, but a distant 2nd to Tiger. JMO

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He's not intimidating anymore, I would have to say phil is a better player right now. Tiger needs a hybrid because he cant hit long irons or mid irons. Dont understand why he hit an 8 iron in the drink on 11 in the 3rd round. He needs butch, not haney! He needs to revamp his swing again, back to what it was? Then we can see how good he can be again. :)

 

He hits the best long irons in the game (and don't forget.. they're blades too)

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Plain & simple.....putting. Tiger is not making the putts he was making in 2000 when he DOMINATED the golf world. He is a better iron player now in regards to distance control & GIR, but the putts 10 ft & under that used to be automatic, are not falling. Tiger is still #1 and will once again dominate. Phil is a great player, but a distant 2nd to Tiger. JMO

Exactly.....and when did I say that Tiger is not #1 in the world? Turn the clock a few years back, Tiger used to be so far ahead of the pack in driving distance, that there was little pressure on his putter when he was hitting 8 iron to the green while everyone else in the field had at least a 5 iron.

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I disagree...avg. putts per gir is not a useless stat.....if you miss the green, it's not a GIR.....why is this so hard to understand? I'm saying Phil is a much more consistent and better putter. Tiger is a streaky putter. Now, I bet someone else tells me that Phil has less wins than Tiger this year.....:) Since when did Phil become a putting hack?

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I disagree...avg. putts per gir is not a useless stat.....if you miss the green, it's not a GIR.....why is this so hard to understand? I'm saying Phil is a much more consistent and better putter. Tiger is a streaky putter. Now, I bet someone else tells me that Phil has less wins than Tiger this year.....:) Since when did Phil become a putting hack?

 

It's not useless, but it CAN BE misleading. If you hit 18 greens and happen to make 2 of those putts, your avg doesn't look that great. If I hit only 2 greens, and happen to luck those 2 into the cup, my stats look great... Does that make me a better putter? Of course not. If I'd hit 18 greens, who's to say that I woulnd't have missed the other 16, and even 3-putted a few...

 

Phil became a putting hack when he began ROUTINELY missing 2.5 footers when under anything EVEN CLOSE to pressure... I've never seen such a great putter who sucks so bad inside 5 feet over his career. Yes he made them at the Masters, but again, there was no pressure (which wasn't his fault, agreed). If someone (particularly someone in a pink shirt) had made a charge, my money would have been on Phil to throw up on himself over the short ones, just as he's done his entire career.

 

And on top of all this, he's a jerk.

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Tiger is still number 1 and for a reason 10 majors 30 years old. Just because someone else actaully started winning some multiply majors doesnt mean tiger is done. I think now the favorites are in this order Tiger then Phil to win the majors. But tiger is still way in front and for a reason, he is that good. Also remember he is using a 5 wood cause it hits it higher and lands softer and these ever firmer greens. He still hits his long irons and mid irons like know one else. Tiger still has a lot of major titles in his future, barring injury, or personal problems.

 

 

 

Like i said i also think Phil is going to win a bunch of majors, do i think he is chaseing Jack, No. But he will get more then three and i bet less then 12. hehehheheh IMO

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When Tiger was "dominating" a lot of people complained about his having no rivals like Jack did. Recently, though, players have stepped up in general, working out and committing to practicing etc. They closed the gap, sure...but Tiger still remained #1. VJ stepped up and Tiger responded. Phil apparently has stepped up and there's no reason to believe Tiger won't find ways to respond.

 

Now that the PGA is more competitive and there are more worthy rivals to Tiger should not suggest that Tiger is somehow less of a golfer. I like it better that every big tournament is better contested. But I still believe Tiger will win 1-2 majors a year and the field will share the rest. This would not make any of the others the #1 golfer after each win...they have a ranking system to determine that. Tiger, therefore, is #1.

 

I have another question which I think is a better debate. In terms of competition to and for each other, Tiger is to Jack as Phil is to whom? Watson? Miller? How do you see the other Big 5 in this regard?

 

What are your thoughts?

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I just miss tiger's dominance days of beating up the field by alot of strokes. Mostly just disapointed he didnt win. I thought for sure he was gonna win, I give phil credit for winning. I still think tiger's swing is good, but I personaly dont see the difference besides less leg action. I just want tiger to break jacks record but, I dont think so, have to side with Jim thorpe. Go tiger, find that magic

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This is the problem with being so dominante...everyone expects him to win every tournament hes in...

 

I'm sure the same thing happened to Jack in his prime...

 

Folks...he finished in the top 10 in a major AGAIN...hes won 4 Green Jackets before he turned 30...let the man be...

 

He's not going to make every putt when he needs to, hes not going to win every major, but hes always going to be in contention.

 

You can't think his "clutchness" is gone because he didnt shoot a 66 on Sunday to win in the toughest tournament there is to win.

 

I completely agree with you. No one can have their A game every week, or turn it on just beacuse it's the week of a major. I'm sure he was distracted a little with his dad's health problems also.

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i haven't posted in a while, but i feel the need to right now. remember a couple of years ago when everyone was saying that tiger wasn't the best and he needed to go back to butch b/c vijay had become better. well where's vijay now? every so often guys are going to challenge tiger as they play the best golf of their careers. right now phil is playing his best golf and he's playing great, but tiger has been at the top for 8 years now. phil will probably continue to play well and then he'll fall back to the pack the same way ernie did and the same way vijay did.

 

and please, never say that phil is a better putter than tiger. phil has continually missed 4 footers under pressure that may have won him majors.

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  • 1 month later...

The U.S. Open is typically played on longer and dryer courses than Augusta with much more difficult rough, therefore offering a harder challenge.

 

 

Longer course?

 

The only course longer than augusta national in major championship history was whistling straits and that was by a few yards, dryer course just means its shorter, when augusta got wet it got longer.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't agree that the U.S. Open is a better test of golf, I judge the type of players who rise to the top at a major as a judge of the course and I don't think there is or will ever be a better leader board than we saw at augusta on this magical sunday.

 

Adam

 

Hey Muir,

 

this is hala from the thread on tiger's clutchness about a month and a half ago. yes, i was wrong in my statement. the u.s. open has always been played on shorter courses than augusta, which this year played to 7445 yards. However, the PGA Championship eclipsed this last year at Whistling Straits. This year, the PGA will once again pass its own mark at Medinah, stretching the Illinois track to 7,561 yards. Rumors are that in 2012, the PGA could stretch the length of the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island in S.C. to 7800 yards!!! Getting to my point, I still don't think that the Masters is as difficult to win as the U.S. Open. For one, the Masters field is usually between 90-100 players. Yes, this allows the tournament to only include the world's most elite golfers, but tell me, how many of these players don't play in the U.S. Open. The answer is zero, or close to it. The U.S. Open has all of these great players, plus an additional 60 or so players. Also, the Masters is played on Augusta every year. Yes, Augusta is a difficult course, but would you rather play a difficult course (Augusta) every year and grow accustomed to it, or play a new difficult course every year (U.S. Open), facing new challenges each year. Most sane people would take their chances in the Masters, because they could find ways to play to their game at Augusta. In the U.S. Open, you can't find a way to handle the tournament. Each course every year brings new obstacles, and players have a hard time adjusting. The scoring averages are different as well. The winning score of the U.S. Open last year was even par by Michael Campbell, while the winning score of the Masters this year was 7 under by Lefty on a course almost three hundred yards longer!!!!!! If that isn't justice enough for the difficulty of the U.S. Open, the fact that the winner shot seven strokes worse on a shorter course, then I don't know what is. I rest my case, and can't wait for Winged Foot!!!

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