Scotty Cameron question

[tarik]

mill marks

I'm looking at sending a Mizuno M-200 to the Scotty custom shop to be refinished. My question is; can Scotty make deeper mill marks on the face of the putter while changing the finish?

[taylormadefan]

I'm looking at sending a Mizuno M-200 to the Scotty custom shop to be refinished. My question is; can Scotty make deeper mill marks on the face of the putter while changing the finish?

 

Mill marks are the result of speed and sharpness of the bit, basically it's a crap shoot as to how deep and well defined the marks are unless you know the guy running the CNC machine. Give them a call and see what they say. I'll bet it'll be something along hte lines of "all our putters are milled in the same fashion sir"

 

However, take a look at retail camerons and there are some pretty shocking differences between them (even between the same models).

 

BTW, mill marks do nothing in terms of performance and in real world machining are a sign of poor craftsmanship (too slow a speed or too dull a bit). The things golfers pay for . . . :)

[tarik]

Thanks for the info TaylorMadefan.

 

Many here would argue as to the better performance of a putter with deeper mill marks (but thats a different thread). I feel they look better with deeper mill marks, and when my putter looks better I feel more confident with it. I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for it but I figure if they have the putter stripped already, why not add deeper mill marks to it.

 

Almost all the Circle T's, 009's, Proto's, ect....have deeper mill marks, and they are considered to be the highest quality putters around. I doubt that the marks are there from lack of craftsmanship.

 

Anyone else try to get Scotty to putt some deeper mill marks on their putter?

[rj_12]

One thing to watch out for when getting your putter refinished is the weight of the putter. The remilling process can take off up to 10 grams (especially if you want deep defined mill marks) and since scotty's are already a little light, this is a factor you might want to consider before you decide on getting it done.

[nochct]

now i'm confused, why would you want deeper circular mill marks. seriously, do you think it actually does anything for performance?? all i've read is that lots of mill marks means sloppy work. of course you probably want a circle t stamp as well b/c we all know that makes a huge difference.

[taylormadefan]

Here's a good article on the mill marks from the studio itself:

http://www.scottycameron.com/articles/details.asp?id=86

 

I still stand by my statement that mill marks aren't neccessiarily a good thing. Ask any CNC machinist what they think about leaving pronounced mill marks on their parts . . .

[tarik]

now i'm confused, why would you want deeper circular mill marks. seriously, do you think it actually does anything for performance?? all i've read is that lots of mill marks means sloppy work. of course you probably want a circle t stamp as well b/c we all know that makes a huge difference.

 

Please feel free to post any info that you have read about the correlation between mill marks and poor craftsmanship. From what I read on the Scotty website (as posted by Taylormadefan), mill marks are neither a sign of poor craftmanship or good, it is just different. Until then I will still want them on my putter, not for performance, but for aesthetic appreciation. As stated about three lines up, when my putter looks good to me I putt better with it. I have no intention on putting a stamp on my putter, it is only to enhance its original beauty.

[sergizmo]

As previous posters have said, deep millmarks are a sign of poor work in the machining world. They could also negatively effect performance, as the metal is being pushed and distorted. This results in a face that is less than flat.

[taylormadefan]

Straight from Wikipedia's article on machining.

 

The inferior finish found on the machined surface of a workpiece may be caused by insufficent clamping, cutting conditions or perhaps an incorrectly adjusted machine. It is evident by an undulating or irregular finish, and the appearance of waves on the surface

 

Scotty knows what he's doing, and so does Bob Vokey, and Jose Milaflor from TaylorMade. They wouldn't put these things on their putters, wedges, and irons if they thought they were truly poorly made.

 

I was just trying to find some humor in the fact that many golfers find pleasure in what trade machinists abhor. :)

[tarik]

This is basically the look I am going for:

 

 

 

As opposed to this:

 

 

I just feel they look better with the deeper, clearer looking mill marks. This thread wasn't about the pros and cons of having them, it was simply a question of "can Scotty do this for me?". So please, lets keep all future posts relevent to this question.

[bma725]

Please feel free to post any info that you have read about the correlation between mill marks and poor craftsmanship. From what I read on the Scotty website (as posted by Taylormadefan), mill marks are neither a sign of poor craftmanship or good, it is just different.

 

Mill marks don't mean poor craftsmanship, they mean incomplete process. In any industrial milling work if you leave marks like Cameron or even larger ones like Slighter or Grace, you'll get your a** chewed out by your boss because you didn't finish the job. No finished piece would ever be allowed out with mill marks showing because that would mean it isn't as good as it could be. Industrial grinders are taken to pieces after the milling because they can make the piece even smoother and closer to perfectly flat than any mill in the world. Grinders can take metal off in much more precise amounts than a mill.

 

"can Scotty do this for me?".

 

Probably not if you want to be able to use it. Figure there going to smooth out the nicks and bumps in the head which will cause some weight lose, then they probably grind out the old milling marks instead of just going over them, and then they'd re-mill the head. Thats a lot of weight to lose if you plan on using the putter. If you wanted to keep it playable you'd be better off sending it to someone who'd add tungsten in the head and then do the milling just to keep the weight standard.

[tarik]

Thank you bma725, that is exactly what I needed to know. :)

[sergizmo]

Please feel free to post any info that you have read about the correlation between mill marks and poor craftsmanship. From what I read on the Scotty website (as posted by Taylormadefan), mill marks are neither a sign of poor craftmanship or good, it is just different.

 

Mill marks don't mean poor craftsmanship, they mean incomplete process. In any industrial milling work if you leave marks like Cameron or even larger ones like Slighter or Grace, you'll get your a** chewed out by your boss because you didn't finish the job. No finished piece would ever be allowed out with mill marks showing because that would mean it isn't as good as it could be. Industrial grinders are taken to pieces after the milling because they can make the piece even smoother and closer to perfectly flat than any mill in the world. Grinders can take metal off in much more precise amounts than a mill.

 

"can Scotty do this for me?".

 

Probably not if you want to be able to use it. Figure there going to smooth out the nicks and bumps in the head which will cause some weight lose, then they probably grind out the old milling marks instead of just going over them, and then they'd re-mill the head. Thats a lot of weight to lose if you plan on using the putter. If you wanted to keep it playable you'd be better off sending it to someone who'd add tungsten in the head and then do the milling just to keep the weight standard.

 

Not all milled surfaces are ground though. A very nice surface finish can be obtained by using fresh inserts (carbide cutter), coolant, proper feeds and speeds, making sure the clamping prevents vibration and using a finishing pass after the initial cut. There will still be milling marks, but they will be VERY faint (ie MUCH shallower and closer together). Overall flatness will also be much better.

 

Grinding is much more precise than milling (dimensionally and with regards to flatness), but in terms of something like a putter, is total overkill. Do you really need the face to be flat within .0001" on a putter?

 

Faces on some milled putters look as though they loosened an insert, put in worn/burnt/chipped inserts, or fed it way too fast with no coolant. In other words, doing it improperly on purpose to satisfy this fetish that some golfers have with deep millmarks.

[tarik]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it! :)

[iroc]

I just came back from a michine shop in which i had 2 scotty's with me one being an sd1 and the other a new circa 62 #2 the michineist told me the same thing. Scotty is mass producing these putters so his blades get dull and therefore cut in deeper he also told me that the mill marks on my circa 62 looked like crap in machinest world. I went in there looking to see if he could copy my 62's mill marks onto my sd1 as they arent as visable as they once were.

 

I also brought in a crap putter for him to try out on and he basically put it through in 5 min but the milling was extremely close together like you guys are stating. looked good but not what i want, he then stated he would put some dull blades on and try it again at a quicker speed here ar some pics of te crappy putter t through this head is also ss the others are carbon which may make a little difference. the milling is hard to see as it is so close together.