CLEVELAND hiBORE (FAILURE ON TOUR)

[golfsll]

well the more i dont see the hiBORE in play by the cleveland crew the more im glad a didnt fork out that cash. what are you opinions of the non-visabilty of the Cadillac of Cleveland on tour? not what are your opinions about the club (no personal testimonies). can the club be saved and revived and how soon do you think it will hit the 299.99 mark in retail? well thanks i look forward to reading your comments.

[LionGolfer]

Have you tried it? Maybe it'll suit your swing which is more important that "what's on tour" don't you think. The TM 460 hardly has any play on tour as well but it does suit quite a few non-tour players. I have not tried the Hi Bore or the TM 460 but won;t rule them out just because they are not "on tour" :)

[clint6760]

I have heard alot of good stuff about it myself. I haven't hit it but I plan on trying. I need something that hits it higher than normal. I could care less if it is on tour or not because clubs for them aren't suited for me so it doesn't matter.

[pitbull808]

Since the first time I saw the Hi Bore at the Sony Open and posted the first pictures of it anywhere on the internet here at Golfwrx, I knew I had to get one.

 

I recently did just that the other day with not even a care about my own personal bias towards import clubs or what the Pro's Play. I'm not a Pro and really don't give a darn what they play. I play what I like and what works for me.

 

Is the Hi Bore a failure? or at least a failure for me? That's to be learned tomorrow when I finally can get some swings on it now that I've got a shaft that fits me in it.

 

I would look at a clubs success not by what the Pro's play but how it works for the amature and weekend golfer. I'll bet that they've sold more Perfect Club's or even the original Adams Tight Lies then any other single club that a Pro plays.

 

Oh and by the way...anyone notice TM R7 425's are going for cheap dollars at Sports Authority and they've been reasonably successful on the Tour.

[dbdave]

What expsosure is the Hi-Bore getting on the tour presently? Are Singh and Toms playing it now? Any others?

[pitbull808]

What expsosure is the Hi-Bore getting on the tour presently? Are Singh and Toms playing it now? Any others?

 

 

Neither one is currently using it. Does it mean anything? I don't think so...look how long it took Luke Donald to use MP32's.....even after all the rave reviews on golf forums everywhere.

[CRutherford]

What expsosure is the Hi-Bore getting on the tour presently? Are Singh and Toms playing it now? Any others?

 

 

Neither one is currently using it. Does it mean anything? I don't think so...look how long it took Luke Donald to use MP32's.....even after all the rave reviews on golf forums everywhere.

Very true, and Luke won with them too. Regardless of what I think about the Hibore, I'd never down grade someone who uses it, because if it works for them, that's what they should use.

[HipCheck]

You can't say if it's a failure yet. Too soon to tell.

 

With the amount that they've been promoting it with all the Vijay commercials, though, it's definitely not good press.

 

"I've been hitting it straighter...and longer." Well, if you've switched, then we can only assume you aren't hitting it straighter and longer lately.

 

Remember when Tiger went back to the D from the Ignite? The Ignite went 'bye bye'.

[nikemike]

The general consumer doesn't know or probably even care what club is used on tour. The masses buy more on word of mouth than a commercial or Pro endorsement.

 

Now for folks like us, who keep up with equipment and it's tour usage, it could have an affect on a small percentage.

[golfernut78]

i think cleveland needs to have a hi-bore and hi-bore tour, similar to the nike sq max and sq max tour (the tour model not the retail tour model). the sq is dead straight as well, but nike got it worked for the pros to like it.

 

not seeing any pros play the hi-bore doesn't make me question the driver or the design, but does make me question clevelands design team for not having something more "pro friendly" or the fitters for being able to find a setup the player likes.

[tylerbrowder8-4]

maybe the driver is hard to fit the right specs for them and the cleveland crew are just trying to make them just right for them................. just like tiger and his sasquatch

[HipCheck]

i think cleveland needs to have a hi-bore and hi-bore tour, similar to the nike sq max and sq max tour (the tour model not the retail tour model). the sq is dead straight as well, but nike got it worked for the pros to like it.

 

not seeing any pros play the hi-bore doesn't make me question the driver or the design, but does make me question clevelands design team for not having something more "pro friendly" or the fitters for being able to find a setup the player likes.

 

They do have a Tour, plus Vijay's is bent like 4° open, so it's definitely modified for him.

[dpwrx]

Remember when Tiger went back to the D from the Ignite? The Ignite went 'bye bye'.

 

I don't think that was the Ignite, but rather Nike's original Forged driver. Once he went to the Ignite, he only swapped to go to the SQ.

 

As for the HiBore, kudos to Cleveland for thinking outside the box and genuinely trying to innovate, but I have a sinking feeling that both the professional and amateur markets are too slow to adopt new concepts to really make HiBore a hit.

 

Hopefully, sales will lag by a couple of years, but eventually innovative driver geometry will become more acceptable to the average eye and ear. If hybrids took as long to catch on as they have, what chance does the HiBore have in 4 short months?

[papichulosteve]

less people should care about 'what the pros use' and ad's and just go out and hit the clubs for themselves. the hi-bore is definately ahead of its time and it needs to be on the market for a little more time before a proper conclusion can be made.

 

i remember that when the sasquatch first came out everyone said it was going to be a flop and the club was garbage but the more people got to hit the more it gained in popularity and people are starting to realize that this is the next big step for drivers

[kenfuji]

imho cleveland golf is the most inovative yet a very traditonal manufacture.

 

I believe the hi-bore is something all manufactures will eventually look into copying in one way shape or form due to the 460cc and moi restiction. The tour does have a huge impact on sales, but marketing has a bigger impact for the consumers to try and have them create the buzz that generally make or break the product. ie the slingshots are very popular with amatures but not may low hcp and tour pros play them, yet they are a very popular club. why? Nike is the master of marketing.

 

Ultimtely the consumer will make the decide if the Hibore is a failure or not.

[DemolitionMan]

Make no mistake, if there is a lack of tour success of the HiBore it will trickle down in lots of ways that are not good for Cleveland. They do care about tour success, that's way they put so much money into it. Money into R&D, money into player contracts, money into advertising, money into demo days, etc...it all adds up.

 

If Cleveland staffers are not even into it, then how do you sell it to the public? It's not like the TM strategy. TM markets TM drivers, they market R7s, they get a ton of tour usage to maximize exposure and results. You do not see them market too specific. You go to the store, and then you have a ton of choices.

 

But as Callaway has learned, and now Cleveland is learning for the 2nd go around, it gets pretty expensive to be a front runner in so called new technology without large volume sales behind it.

 

HiBore is a flop and there is not much chance of saving it. Maybe they can tweak the model and get their staff to go wild with it, but that's not looking too likely.

 

Cleveland is on the wrong side of the trend in drivers. Big OEMs are going after each other around the $299 price point, and while they have more expensive models, you get something for that extra price. What does HiBore offer at the higher price point? A spooned out top? You have to be pretty stupid to think you can convince the public to buy a driver that looks identical to another driver except the funky top and charge more. How is the technology visible to the average person? At least with the Comp, you got carbon fiber, same as Cally FT-3 approach, with TP series of TM you get more accessories and better shafts. But with Cleveland you get the same vanilla shaft, a funny look and trying to fight the perception that at first glance you get less driver for more money.

 

Cleveland has been pretty smart the last few years and have done well, but they made a mistake with HiBore. Oh well, you can't win them all, they will survive.

[golfgolf05]

I noticed Vijay was using the comp with Bassara shaft at the Byron Nelson. Anyone know if he's used that shaft before.

[DemolitionMan]

less people should care about 'what the pros use' and ad's and just go out and hit the clubs for themselves. the hi-bore is definately ahead of its time and it needs to be on the market for a little more time before a proper conclusion can be made.

 

i remember that when the sasquatch first came out everyone said it was going to be a flop and the club was garbage but the more people got to hit the more it gained in popularity and people are starting to realize that this is the next big step for drivers

 

Only knuckleheads on internet forums thought the SQ was going to be a flop. A couple of wins by TW and the rest of the Nike staff getting on board (and winning) answered any questions in a hurry. The driver is ugly, no doubt, but here is a case where pro usage does affect the market. Pros use it, they win with it, and weekenders go buy it. Ugliness was not such a big deal to a pro, why should it be to the average consumer? Nike had good sales on SQ from the get go, mainly because they did a lot to repair their reptuation with the Ignite after the 1st generation Nike drivers were truly a flop.

 

I know we all want to think that we should buy what is best for us and who cares what the pros use, blah, blah, blah, but that's not reality. How many Repsonse putters were sold the year after Nicklaus won the '86 Masters? Pro use has a big impact on consumer sales. Lack of HiBore tour success hurts.

[puresurfr]

the response putter was slated for sales of 1500-2500, but when nicklaus won the masters with it, i believe 750,000 were sold that year....

[Evil R1]

The general consumer doesn't know or probably even care what club is used on tour. The masses buy more on word of mouth than a commercial or Pro endorsement.

 

Now for folks like us, who keep up with equipment and it's tour usage, it could have an affect on a small percentage.

 

I agree with you on this. I love to see what's in Pro's bags and what setup they have, but when it comes down to what goes in my bag, it's all about what appeals to me, and what I play well with. I like Tiger, but I can't get over the Ugly of the SQ so it will not find it's way into my bag even if that club won every toury this year.

 

Thanks,

[DemolitionMan]

The general consumer doesn't know or probably even care what club is used on tour. The masses buy more on word of mouth than a commercial or Pro endorsement.

 

Now for folks like us, who keep up with equipment and it's tour usage, it could have an affect on a small percentage.

 

I agree with you on this. I love to see what's in Pro's bags and what setup they have, but when it comes down to what goes in my bag, it's all about what appeals to me, and what I play well with. I like Tiger, but I can't get over the Ugly of the SQ so it will not find it's way into my bag even if that club won every toury this year.

 

Thanks,

 

Marketing 101, before you can have word of mouth, you have to have early adopters. Early adopters are reached through target marketing, which in this case tour usage is one of those methods.

 

Someone please post here the history of the R500 series for TM and its path from early adoption to massive sales.

 

Do you people honestly think pros are paid to use equipment and money is spent on tv / print ads for the hell of it? OEMs are just so flush with cash they advertise as an act of benevolence?

[DemolitionMan]

the response putter was slated for sales of 1500-2500, but when nicklaus won the masters with it, i believe 750,000 were sold that year....

 

750K units is an exaggeration. Still, the sales of the putter were the stuff of dreams. Incredible. 6,000 units forecast for 1986, 20,000 sold by the Masters, 5,000 sold on the Monday after Jack's win, 150,000 sold in 1986, 200,000 sold in 1987. In all, 350,000 putters in two years of one model. Scotty Cameron can't touch that.

[HipCheck]

Remember when Tiger went back to the D from the Ignite? The Ignite went 'bye bye'.

 

I don't think that was the Ignite, but rather Nike's original Forged driver.

 

:crazy: Hey, y'know you're right! I proved my point with out even trying to. It was move forgetable that even I thought! :)

[tbowles411]

Interesting. As I read this, I remember that Vijay was hitting the crap out of his Hi-Bore early in the season. 340 yard drives and all that. Now he can't hit the broadside of a barn. He switched back to the Comp. Guess what? Still can't hit the broadside of a barn.

 

Is this the driver's fault? No. Sounds like a swing issue to me. El Tigre had swing issues for 2 or 3 years. He didn't ditch his Ignite, he fixed his swing. 2005 speaks for itself. So what did he do this year, he switched drivers. He didn't have do, but when he did, everyone followed him.

 

I own both drivers. Both are excellent for what they are asked to do. My SQ is not Tiger's and my Hi-Bore is not Vijay's. They are fitted for me and me alone. No V2 shaft or Fujikura stock. My swing said something different for both. I know whatever driver I grab will do what I need it to, mostly. Most folks here (not all mind you) need a higher launch angle. Both drivers are made to do that. You don't see Titlelist, TM or any other of the OEMs panicking. For goodness sake, Cobra (Titleist's Volkswagen) won on tour this year! I also own a Comp. My Hi-Bore carries farther than my Comp. An excellent driver, but the numbers don't lie.

 

Before we send the Hi-Bore off as a failure and off the cliff, remember there are guys (and gals) using Ram and Adams and Pinemeadow Golf sticks for goodness sake. If it works for them, God bless them. Next year, I'm sure everyone will have another flavor that they will love and talk up. Use what you like. For everyone that declares the Hi-Bore a failure, that's your right. But I can point to a number of posts here that will say otherwise.

[tarik]

Just looking at the Cleveland players directory; of the thirty people listed on the PGA, 20% have put the Hibore in their bags.......not counting Vijay.

[JumboJack]

I don't care who is playing the Hibore..All I know is that it took the place in my bag of my R5 TP( and that is a great club)..The Hibore is long and straight,,Thats all I care...

[Geo]

I don't care who is playing the Hibore..All I know is that it took the place in my bag of my R5 TP( and that is a great club)..The Hibore is long and straight,,Thats all I care...

 

And that's all that should matter. Good on you for sticking with what works, you should talk to pitbull. The HiBore is very much working for him, but he'll take it out as soon as he gets his other club back from the shop. Players play what works. Posers look good for the camera. Me, I can't play and look terrible while trying. :) Such is life.

 

beruo

[pitbull808]

I don't care who is playing the Hibore..All I know is that it took the place in my bag of my R5 TP( and that is a great club)..The Hibore is long and straight,,Thats all I care...

 

And that's all that should matter. Good on you for sticking with what works, you should talk to pitbull. The HiBore is very much working for him, but he'll take it out as soon as he gets his other club back from the shop. Players play what works. Posers look good for the camera. Me, I can't play and look terrible while trying. :) Such is life.

 

beruo

 

 

Jumbo..if it works for you great. Reviews and PGA use can help you decide on the initial monetary investment but if it does/doesn't work for you is all that matters.

 

I was initially very intrigued with the Hi Bore when I saw it at the Sony Open and that curiosity led me to purchasing it. My review on the first day outing with it today is posted in the Driver section. :crazy:

 

***EDIT....my second day..playing 36 holes with the Hi Bore review has been added to the drivers section. ;)

[Ultimate]

I have to admit that what the tour players use is a big part of wht gets my attention.

But what I actually put into play depends on what workd for me. I know the pros play with X and XX flex shafts, but I don't and I don't think I ever will want to.

Same with the HiBore. The fact that Vijay had one got my attention. I tried it. It is not the longest driver I have ever hit, but it is the straightest driver I have eevr hit. For me, straighter is more useful than longer. So I am happy to put a HiBor inot play, whether or not the tour players do.

Their swings are better than mine. They control spin better than I do. They want a little extra distance more than I do. I can see why they might not play with a HiBore. I'd bet that the tour players would understand why I would want a HiBore, too.

[Mr3Putt]

I love mine, it's actually been in my bag for an entire month..a new single season record. It feels like a sledge hammer and goes straight,but I can hit a cut with it and get plenty of carry.

 

I could care what Vijay or Tiger are playing, when I am earning $3 million ayr on tour I may start.