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Balls: TaylorMade TP Red/TP Black Ball Review


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By Erik J. Barzeski via TheSandTrap.com
A challenger to the throne that Titleist built? TaylorMade, surprisingly, has more than this: they have a potential successor.

taylormade_tp_ball_sleeves.jpgTitleist has ruled the "premium ball" roost since, well, since there was a roost to be ruled. In the pre-Tiger era, I remember seeing advertisements that said "The last 47 U.S. Opens have been won with a Titleist ball" (or something like that). Eventually, Tiger and his Nike R&D chums managed to put a stop to that streak, but Titleist still owns darn near 85% of the premium ball market, leaving Callaway, Nike, Bridgestone, and others to pick up the scraps.



Today, a new player officially enters the market: TaylorMade. We covered the launch of TaylorMade's "Tour Preferred" line of golf balls in several articles (here, here, here, and here), and since then we've been playing with both the TP Red and the TP Black.



Here, finally, are our exhaustive thoughts on the newest challenger to the throne the Pro V1 built.

Design and Technology
taylormade_inergel_ball.jpgThe name of the game in golf ball design is patents: who has them, who wants them, and who feels that they can sue to keep theirs intact and competitors at bay.



TaylorMade's last ball effort was as big a dud as the industry has seen in the past two decades. Remember the "InerGel"? These balls came in their very own plastic "freshness guaranteed" sleeves. By most accounts they worked well… for one hole. Then they got, well, mushy.



In 2002, TaylorMade acquired struggling ball company Maxfli and, with it, a long list of patents. Dean Snell, designer of the Pro V1, was already on board having joined TaylorMade after leaving Titleist in 1997.
Maxfli's patents and Dean Snell's knowledge was apparently a marriage made in heaven, even if did take nine years to see results. (As an interesting aside, Titleist didn't release the Pro V1 until after the Nike Tour Accuracy and the Callaway Rule 56 balls started to get play on the PGA Tour, falsely believing that Tour pros would not accept a solid-core ball.)



taylormade_ball_launch_rose_snell.jpg
Pro V1 designer Dean Snell, seen here talking with TaylorMade staff member Justin Rose, designed the TP Red and Black.



As you'll see below, and as you might suspect, the TaylorMade TP balls and the Titleist Pro V1 are quite similar. Where the balls differ (by law) is in the areas covered by patents: formulation of core materials, dimple patterns, and the various processes used to manufacture the balls themselves.



Both the TP Red and the TP Black - which are designed to compete with the Pro V1 and the Pro V1x respectively - are built around a core made of a proprietary rubber compound called NdV4. This material uses the metal neodymium as a means to increase the density and to create what TaylorMade says is a core that is both highly elastic and low in compression, yielding high COR and soft feel. The TP Red has a slightly larger core than the TP Black.



taylormade_tp_ball_pdp_dimples.jpg
The "PDP" or "pentangular di-pyramidal" design employs 322 dimples in six different sizes.



Between the core and cover of each TP ball is a firm ionomer mantle layer that is built to boost ball speed. TaylorMade says that all golfers - at least those with swing speeds of more than 60 MPH - will be able to take advantage of the ball velocity characteristics of the TP balls. The mantle layer of the TP Red ball is thinner than the TP Black's, giving the TP Red ball slightly softer feel and sound properties. Meanwhile, the thicker mantle layer of the TP Black allows it to slightly "slide up" the clubface at impact, which results in a higher launch angle and lower spin with all clubs - the formula for increased carry distance.



TaylorMade has elected to use a proprietary thermoset urethane material for the cover of the TP golf balls. This is a more durable, yet softer, formulation of urethane than the thermoplastic urethane used in some golf ball covers. TaylorMade says the use of thermoset urethane was crucial to creating the spin, feel, and performance that tour players expect out of a golf ball. The TP balls also have a paint system that is different and more advanced that the system employed by Maxfli balls (allaying our fears of yellowing TP balls).



The dimple pattern of the TP balls is called the Pentangular Di-Pyramid (PDP) pattern. It consists of 322 dimples that have been designed with multiple shapes, sizes, depths, and edging characteristics to increase lift at the beginning of a ball's flight and decrease drag toward the end. TaylorMade's goal was to increase the amount of time the ball spends in the air, especially in the last third of the ball's flight, to increase carry distance.



taylormade_tp_ball_ndv4_logo.jpg
The neodymium in the "NdV4" core simply increases the density of the core.



In the end, the TaylorMade TP Red and TP Black balls each have the same core, mantle layer, and cover materials, but in different thicknesses to create distinct performance characteristics. The TP Red is engineered to create a lower ball flight on iron shots than the TP Black, and both models are constructed to create high-launch, low-spin conditions off the driver.



Some folks may see these balls as updated versions of the Maxfli BlackMAX, and in many ways they are. While the BlackMAX has a neodymium core, it's not the NdV4 core. A change in the size of the core necessitated a different formulation for not only the core but the mantle and cover as well. And, if nothing else, it's obvious to anyone viewing two balls side by side that the dimple pattern has been upgraded in the TP balls to alleviate the "wounded duck" third stage of flight that plagued the the BlackMAX.



Feel and Spin
While these balls were undergoing testing, their code names were the "TPV" and the "TPX." You can imagine which turned out to be which, as both the TP Red and the TP Black are aimed to compete squarely with Titleist's front-running Pro V1 and Pro V1x. A quick word to the wondering: though the Pro V1x has red numbers (which have historically been used for the lower-compression balls), the TP Red corresponds to the Pro V1 while the TP Black corresponds to the Pro V1x, righting the color-scheme ship that wrecked somewhere off the coast of Fairhaven, MA.



I was able to test the TP Red in early April as several balls marked "SERGIO" were made available to the press at the official launch of the TP balls in Greensboro, GA the weekend before The Masters. We've been using the TP Black for the past three weeks.



As of April 1, I played the Pro V1x. I have no problems getting the ball up in the air and generating a lot of spin, so the harder, lower-spinning V1x works for me. Last year, I tried the Pro V1 and, while I appreciated being able to work the ball left and right with ease, I stopped using the ball when I sucked back a 20-yard chip shot. From wet rough. Hop, hop, and suck back three feet. It was actually quite scary…



taylormade_tp_ball_four_balls.jpg
The Pro V1x, TP Black, TP Red, and Pro V1 feature 332, 322, 322, and 392 dimples, respectively. The TP balls, like the Pro V1 and V1x, are seam-stamped "<TP/RED>" and "<TP/BLACK>".



With trepidation, I put the TP Red into play in Greensboro. If Sergio could switch from the Pro V1x to the TP Red, I figured, it couldn't be too bad. And, truth be told, it wasn't. I found that the TP Red doesn't spin quite as much as the Pro V1, and that's a good thing. I could work the ball reliably without over-spinning the ball nearly as much as I can a Pro V1. Don't get me wrong - I sucked my share of full sand wedges off of receptive greens, but chips and pitch shots behaved far more predictably with the TP Red than they ever had for me with a Pro V1.



Still, I looked forward to laying the TP Black. The lower-spinning ball, I reasoned, should reduce the number of times I impressed my playing partners by sucking a ball 30 feet back off the front of the green and into bunkers. And it did - my playing partners ceased to be awed by the tremendous "suck" I could put on a ball. Instead, my ball would land, hop once, and sit down immediately with nearly every club in my bag, including my wedges. That's the kind of control I like, making the TP Black a winner in the "spin" category for me.



On partial shots, the same story held: the Pro V1 spun the most, the TP Red followed, and the Pro V1x and TP Black finished relatively close to each other towards the "lower spin" end of the spectrum. Staff member (and scratch golfer) Dave Koster, who helped me to review these balls, feels that the Pro V1x spins a bit more on partial shots than the TP Black, while I feel they're virtually identical.



Off the putter, the TP Red and Black offer a firm "click" that sounds a bit harder than both Pro V1 models. A significant portion of "feel" is actually auditory, and this points to the Pro V1 and Pro V1x "feeling" softer off the putter than their respective TP cousins.



taylormade_tp_ball_trajectory.jpg
The TP Black launches a bit higher and spins a bit less than the TP Red.



Distance and Durability
The USGA has an overall distance standard (ODS) that carefully defines how far a ball can travel. Every premium ball goes approximately the same distance, give or take a yard or two.



The "mother" ball in the TP lineage was the BlackMAX, which shares a lot of the same technology in the TP balls. But the BlackMAX had a small problem: it fell out of the air in the third stage of flight (descent) too rapidly, robbing people of distance. The problem may have existed largely due to the BlackMAX's dimple pattern, because the PDP pattern seen on the TP balls is significantly different than the pattern used on the BlackMAX. The TP's larger dimples reduced the dimple count from 372 (BlackMAX) to the 322 present on the TP balls.



What does this mean? The TP balls no longer fall out of the sky quite like the BlackMAX, sustaining their height further down the fairway. And while I realize that just about every premium ball goes about as far as the next, I can't overlook one very simple fact: the six longest drives I've hit this year have been with the TP Black. Despite only playing the TP Black for about six rounds of golf, roughly 1/5 of my rounds this year, my six longest drives have been with this ball.



In fact, the drives I've hit with the TP Black have been some of the longest drives of my life on certain holes at my home club: I was within 35 yards of the pin on a 360-yard par 4, was within 50 yards of the green in two on a 570-yard par 5, and reached a par five I've only ever reached three times in five years of play with a 7-iron (though, I admit, the wind was with me that day). I normally carry the ball about 250 yards, but some of these drives clocked in at over 300 yards of carry and roll. And it's still springtime where I live, so we're not exactly playing firm and fast conditions!



Dave, who swings at about 110 MPH compared to my 105, felt that the TP Black was "as long" as the Pro V1x. I must admit that I never quite felt like I was getting everything I could out of the Pro V1x, so perhaps the TP Black performs better at slower swing speeds. In either case, my anecdotal evidence of 320-yard drives should be regarded as such: anecdotes, not scientific proof.



For those who prefer the "spinnier" version of the ball, Dave and I both feel that the TP Red is significantly longer than the Pro V1. As you'll see in the charts below, we both believe it's because the TP Red is more similar to the TP Black than the Pro V1 is to the Pro V1x. If you love all the spin the Pro V1 provides, you may not be willing to give that up for a few extra yards with the TP Red.



taylormade_tp_ball_box_angle.jpg
The TaylorMade TP Red and TP Black feature some of the coolest golf ball boxes you have ever seen.



In addition to pushing the limits of the ODS, the Pro V1, Pro V1x, TP Red, and TP Black have another thing in common: their covers are made of thermoset urethane measuring 0.031 inches. Anyone who's ever hit a full wedge shot with a $40/dozen ball has seen the "cheese grater" effect modern grooves have on a ball. The TP Red and TP Black, like every modern thin-covered ball, are not immune to this effect. However, Dave felt that the TP Red outperformed the TP Black in this regard, and he played a scuff-free nine holes with the TP Red after going through two TP Blacks on the front nine.



The TP Red is billed as the "lower launch, higher spin" version of the TP ball, while the TP Black is the "higher launch, lower spin" sibling. Though the launch angle off the driver is roughly the same, the TP Black does launch noticeably higher off of irons, while the TP Red starts out lower and rises just a bit. It would be unfair to describe the TP Red's trajectory as "ballooning," but I can say that someone who spins their irons plenty will want to avoid using the TP Red in windy conditions. The TP Black, on the other hand, launched high but got through the wind with relative ease. The higher trajectory helped to counter the lower spin rates, yielding soft-landing approach shots with every iron in the bag.



Challenger to the King
taylormade_tp_red_logo.jpgI've said a few times now that "all premium balls" do one thing or another, like "push the ODS to its maximum." While that's true, it's also true that the Titleist Pro V1/V1x are the 800-pound gorillas in the premium ball space, the kings of the hill.



taylormade_tp_black_logo.jpgAs such, I thought it would be interesting to share some graphs with you that I hope will illustrate with images how Dave and I feel the TP balls perform relative to those large primates.



These graphs show three things: Driving Distance, Greenside Softness, and Spin from Irons. They use a relative scale of 1-10. This scale has no actual measurements, but for the sake of this comparison, we restricted our consideration to only premium golf balls - the Nike One, the Callaway HX Tour, the Bridgestone B330, etc. Though no balls except Titleist's and TaylorMade's appear on the graph, we considered all premium balls in placing the balls along the 1-10 scale.



First off, let's see how the balls are constructed:



TP Red TP Black Pro V1 Pro V1xConstruction 3 pc 3 pc 3 pc 4 pcCore Size 1.510 1.480 1.550 1.550Core Compression 70 70 70 90Mantle Size 1.620 1.620 1.620 1.620Mantle Thickness 0.055 0.070 0.035 0.035Mantle Hardness 69 69 64 64Cover Thickness 0.031 0.031 0.031 0.031Cover Hardness 58 58 57 57Ball Compression 90 98 82 94COR 0.815 0.815 0.808 0.808

You can view a more complete chart here (.jpg, 123 KB). As you can see, the Titleist and TaylorMade balls have a very similar construction, right down to the sizes and hardness of the covers, mantles, and cores.



Let's get to the graphic charts, now:



taylormade_tp_ball_driving_distance_chart.jpg



While Dave feels that the TP Black and the Pro V1x are "equally as long," my testing leads me to place the TP Black ever so slightly ahead of the Pro V1x. In reality, they should probably be overlapping, but that would make for a sloppy looking graph.



Dave and I both feel that the TP Red is longer than the Pro V1 because it spins less than the Pro V1 and has a higher compression. Dave and I both work hard to reduce the backspin off our drivers, though, so golfers who have trouble getting enough backspin on drives would likely come up with an entirely different looking graph.



taylormade_tp_ball_spin_irons_chart.jpg



The Pro V1 is the spin-winner of the bunch, that's for sure. The TP Red spins a good bit less than the Pro V1, but Dave and I feel that the TP Black spins nearly the same amount or slightly more than the Pro V1x. The graph holds up pretty well on everything from drives and long irons to full wedges and partial shots around the greens.



taylormade_tp_ball_softness_greenside_chart.jpg



The "firm" sound I wrote about above shows up here: off short pitch shots, chips, and putts the Titleist balls feel softer than their respective TP ball. How much of this is audible "feel" versus tactile feel Dave and I can't say. Combined with the spin characteristics above, though, we're confident in saying that the Pro V1 will give you the most action around the greens, the TP Red will come next, and the Pro V1x and the TP Black will be very similar to each other in their greenside manners.



Conclusion
TaylorMade gave these balls the coveted "TP" label because, unlike the InerGel or the BlackMAX, they felt that these balls would perform to Tour levels. And, perhaps more importantly, they got Sergio Garcia to play them, validating that belief.



taylormade_tp_ball_two_balls.jpg



Though it's impossible to declare an outright winner in the premium ball category, the TaylorMade TP balls exceeded every expectation that I had for them. They're long, they spin, and they're durable. I've never imagined playing anything but a Titleist, but these balls have changed my mind. I like hitting the occasional 320- yard drive. I like having the option to play a higher-spinning ball (TP Red) that doesn't over-spin (Pro V1).



And, while I can't come right out and declare these balls a winner, I can put them in my bag.



The TaylorMade TP Red and TP Black hit stores today and sell for $44.95/dozen.

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Great Review, and good info on Dean Snell and the history of the design of the V1 and TP...

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BTW, the full review (it looks prettier) can be found here.

 

I have to figure out how to enable email notification of replies, or where to find my proper email address, or something...

 

 

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BTW, the full review (it looks prettier) can be found here.

 

I have to figure out how to enable email notification of replies, or where to find my proper email address, or something...

 

 

Erik, I read your comments and couldn't agree more with your assessment of the TP BLACK. An absolute great wind ball along with its other fine performance features. It's to bad that it is taking so long to get in the public's hands.......but since they built it , they will come!!!! :)

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Erik, I read your comments and couldn't agree more with your assessment of the TP BLACK. An absolute great wind ball along with its other fine performance features. It's to bad that it is taking so long to get in the public's hands.......but since they built it , they will come!!!! :)

It just came out today! :-)

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Nice review, but any Taylor Made ball is destined for failure.

I think that's a rather short-sighted statement. They lead a lot of equipment categories and they have a lot of big-name people already using the ball. They also have the Pro V1 designer designing their balls.

 

Put some money where your mouth is... but define "failure" first. Nobody's expecting them to overtake Titleist within a year. Or even a decade. Not Mark King, not you, not me.

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A great review of the new balls, thanks for that. It sounds like TM has the potential to have 2 premium ball offerings for many of us. While I prefer a softer feeling ball it seems like the TP Black may be the better option for my game. Looking forward to giving them a try when I can get my hands on some here. I know they were released here yesterday but unfortunately I was not able to acquire any yet, there are very limited quantities available in Canada at this time, I guess I will have to be patient.

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Thanks for the great review.....I was leaning to trying the Red version but since the ProV1 X and newer HX Tour are my current ball of choice I may try the Black first.

 

It sounds like they are really trying to get things right.

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Thanks for the great review.....I was leaning to trying the Red version but since the ProV1 X and newer HX Tour are my current ball of choice I may try the Black first.

 

It sounds like they are really trying to get things right.

I tried to stress in a comment on my review (at the original URL, not here obviously) that the TP Red and the TP Black are nearly interchangeable. They're very close in terms of performance. I don't know that many people outside of single digits could even really tell them apart reliably.

 

While I could never play a Pro V1 (I spin the crap out of it), I played yesterday with the Red despite being more of a Black kinda guy, and I really suffered no ill except once or twice over-working the ball, and that could have been the swing more than the ball itself.

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I continue to play the Black Max; I haven't experienced the "wounded duck" in flight that you mention. I find that for my level of play and income the Black Max is the best bag for the buck(since the price drop on the Black Max). So until I run out of my two dozen Black Max I stay put.

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Very nice detailed review. TM does indeed have a winner on their hands...now if they can only start producing in larger quantities...

 

... ironically you don't need larger quantities. i have played one red tp for 36 holes and it still looks almost brand new. i am lucky to get 18 out of any previous ball. no question i can get another 18 out of it. never thought i'd play a taylor made ball, i am just blown away by the to red. i picked up a dozen black too, but wil wait for a windy day to test it against the red.

Driver:       TM Qi10 ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
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There's a difference between shortsighted and brief. We've seen the hype surrounding TM balls in the past. The Black Max was touted as the resurgence of the Maxfli name. We've seen TM staff players put the ball in play, and we've seen boxes of Black Max sitting on Pro Shop shelves gathering dust. That is what I mean by failure. Getting a ball into a tour players bag is not a success imo. They chances they're playing a ball you can buy are slim.

The BlackMAX was a good, but not great, ball.

 

Success to me means getting into the bag of joe public, and I don't think a TM ball is going to do that. They've tried in vain in the past, and I just don't see this being any different unless the ball is 20 yards longer than the ProV1, and feels like a tour balata.

You're missing the point. These balls SAY "TaylorMade" on them. Even the InerGel, despite horrible performance and a larger price, sold really well for quite awhile. And TM is in a more dominant spot now than it was then.

 

Despite what you and I may know, not many knew Maxfli == TaylorMade. TaylorMade is the leader in drivers and very high up in every other category. If balls from Callaway, Nike, Bridgestone, and even Srixon can stand up to the heat Titleist brings to this particular game, all TaylorMade would have to do is get some of the people who love their r7s or their RAC LTs to play this ball and they'll be successful.

 

And, from what they've told me, the pros really like this ball. It isn't going anywhere.

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If these balls end up a failure then TM may want to consider getting out of the ball business permanently because the golf gods are conspiring against them.

 

TM is arguably the only OEM with pent up demand. With their brand name, TM is very late to the premium ball party and the likes of Nike, Cally, Srixon, others have it pretty good wo/ TM in the marketplace. Now that should change.

 

As it was pointed out before, it's not like they will outsell Titleist any time soon. But TM has a niche in the market all ready for them if they can just take advantage of it. Perhaps this ball is it. Seems logical to me now is the time.

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Very nice detailed review. TM does indeed have a winner on their hands...now if they can only start producing in larger quantities...

 

... ironically you don't need larger quantities. i have played one red tp for 36 holes and it still looks almost brand new. i am lucky to get 18 out of any previous ball. no question i can get another 18 out of it. never thought i'd play a taylor made ball, i am just blown away by the to red. i picked up a dozen black too, but wil wait for a windy day to test it against the red.

 

Sorry, I should have been a little more specific...right now it's currently taking 20min. to manufacture a single ball. Thus, the limited quantities stores are receiving.

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I would find that hard to believe. At that rate production would be less than 150,000 Dozen in a year, and that's with a plant running 24/7/365.

Huh? That doesn't even make sense. It's not like the plant makes ONE ball at a time. It makes thousands at a time. That doesn't change the fact that each individual ball takes 20+ minutes.

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TM is arguably the only OEM with pent up demand. With their brand name, TM is very late to the premium ball party and the likes of Nike, Cally, Srixon, others have it pretty good wo/ TM in the marketplace. Now that should change.

 

I agree. All the TM junkies out there will give the ball a try and the benefit of the doubt. To me this cuts right into mostly the Titleist slice of the pie, but I guess we'll see. TM is bringing the really big guns out this time so I'm assuming that have finally made a ball to compete with the big boys. Good review and I have always loved every review I have read on the thesandtrap.com. However, I can't help but say that this review seemed more like an infomercial than an unbiased review.

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I've played two rounds with the Black and 9 holes with the Red. Here are my basic thoughts...

 

Distance

 

Black - Unbelieveable. This weekend I hit the longest drives I've ever hit. On one par 5, 500 yards, I usually have 190-200 into the green. I had 110 yards left after the drive. The ball just seems to stay in the air forever. I lose sight of it in the air sometimes because I expect it to keep coming down. On solid drives, I was averaging around 315-320. I normally hit the ball pretty low, so the added height of this ball is perfect for me.

 

Red - Not too shabby either. It is longer than the HX Tour 56 that I was playing previously. On the front 9 yesterday I hit both the black and red on every hole, swapping which one I would hit first off the tee. It is not as long as the black. The trajectory is noticably lower than the black as well. On the same 500 yard par 5, I had 145 left to the hole. The ball does roll quite a bit further than the black too. I tee'd off with the red first on that hole and thought, "wow that was a huge drive". Then I watched the black ball land where the red one finished... ;)

 

Irons

 

Black - Since I normally hit it lower, I usually play higher spin balls. Because of the trajectory of the Black, I don't need the big spin. For example. On a par 5, I had 188 yards to the middle of the green. Normally when I play the up tee's I am in this position. From the back tee's, this is new... Anyway, I usually will take one club less because the front of the green and frindge is pretty firm and anything that lands there will hit and roll to the back of the green, where the pin happened to be that day. So I take out a 7 iron and hit a nice slight fade that is going right at the pin. I expect the large kick, but it doesn't occur. The ball lands softly and ends up on the front frindge. I was baffled. That has NEVER happened on that hole. I realized its due to the higher flight. Once again, perfect for my game.

 

Red - Trajectory once again is noticeably lower than the black. My problem? The fact that the Red really doesn't spin much more than the Black. With a lower trajectory, I need more spin. I'll need to play it some more to really give a complete detail opinion of it though. I didn't hit too many great iron shots on the 9 holes I played yesterday.

 

Chipping

 

Black - Consistent. That is the word I like. Does not check much at all, but usually lands pretty soft and rolls well. Once I got used to not getting any check in the ball, I was chipping awesome. I must have consistency around the greens. I either want the ball to check every time or not check at all. Also, even from bunkers the ball would not spin much, but it does land softly. It is not like a Top Flight or anything like that.

 

Red - This is a little tricky. Once again, I feel that there still isn't much more spin in the Red than the Black. But I can get the Red to check up somewhat. That kind of scares me due to the whole consistentcy thing that I obsess about. My biggest complaint about the ProV1x was the inconsistent spin around the greens. I fear the Red may have this problem too. Once again, I'll need to play more with the Red to get a full feel of it.

 

Putting

 

Both feel the same and both have a brighter sound than most balls.

 

Feel

 

Black - Suprisingly, it feels pretty good. I thought it would feel much harder than it does. Very impressed.

 

Red - Slightly softer than the Black. The only category that the Red really wins for me.

 

Durability

 

Bother are very durable. No cuts or shredding. The logo paint can be scratched off a little bit. But that is the only thing I find wrong with either ball. Much better than the HX Tour, Nike One Platnium, or the Blackmax. It might be a little better than a ProV1 too. If it isn't better, it is the same.

 

 

Overall

 

I am suprised that I like the Black as much as I do. This is a amazing golf ball. Huge distance, and soft landings. To me, it blows away the ProV1x. I really thought I would hate the Black and lean more towards the Red, but so far this does not hold true. I came into the testing with an open mind and I think I finally have found my ball. The only thing that still bugs me is TM making us pay the same as a ProV1. Titleist can charge that much because they have a legion of fans and buyers who will pay whatever Titleist asks them to pay. TM does not have that. The ball should be priced the same as the Nike One and HX Tour. Am I still going to pay the extra money to get this ball? Hell yes I am. The Black rocks any other ball I've played. But TM needs to realize that a higher price isn't going to bring them a ton of fans.

Ping G400 LST Ping Tour Stiff 63
Callaway Epic Fash Sub Zero 15 Hzrdus Smoke 6.5
Titleist 818 H1 19 Evenflow Blue 6.5 85
Titleist T100s Black 4-PW Dynamic Gold AMT Tour White
Titleist SM8 52 Dynamic Gold S200
TM High Toe 58 KBS Hi Rev 115 Stiff
TM High Toe 64 KBS Hi Rev 115 Stiff
TM Spider X

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm confused... It seems like the the Red is comparable to the V1 and the Black is compareable to the V1x.

 

But, trajectory seems opposite.... the Red is low and the V1x is low and vice versa.

 

I like a ball that spins well for chipping, but need a higher flying ball. I don't like the V1x so it seems like the V1 might be best for me rather than one of the TPs.

 

I've got a dozen Reds so I'll just have to play them and see.

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got a tp red from a mini tour player i know, they are money, i got to play about 16 holes before i pull yanked it out of bounds it did have a very resilient cover and just seemed to hang in the air forever but i had trouble controlling the spin around the greens. could be a winner depending if they hit more of the proV price or the callaway HX price. I love me a quality ball for $35-40 a doz. I've played the proV since it was introduced but I hate paying $4.50 a ball.

Aerojet LS 9* - Aerojet LS 14.5* - Baffler 17.5* - Sub 70 Pro 23* - i525 6-U - SM9 54* / 58* / 62*  - F22
 
 
 
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