HELP! I am extremely flat!

[Kilmer030]

Here's my problem; since I played baseball for 6-7 years I've had a naturally flat backswing which I can usually manage. However, every now and then I tend to get extremely, extremely flat with my backswing. Then, I don't know how to get it back on plane.. even trying to hit a cut results in a flat backswing. So I leave you with this picture illustrating just how flat I am and hoping that you all know some drills or anything else that will help me to get back on plane.

[Furrankee]

How tall are you? You look pretty short. If that's the case, the flatter backswing is ok. Plus your using a long iron in that picture.

 

I played baseball for 14 years and I also have a flatter backswing than normal, but not like yours. Learn to keep your hands in front of your chest.

[Kilmer030]

I'm actually on the taller end, right in around 6'1 or 6'2.

 

Also, I know what I need to do, it's just a problem of actually doing it. As in, you can tell me all day what I'm doing wrong and it won't make a difference, as I am a feel player. So that's what I'm asking for: drills or suggestions of what has worked for you all to get back on plane. Thanks.

[ateupwithgolf]

My best advice is to pick up a copy of Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way and read his full swing thoughts. Jack had a very upright swing which obviously served him well and he details every movement of his swing from start to finish. For you I'd say think of your right shoulder working up and your left working down instead of around on your backswing. Go get a full length mirror and practice your halfway back position until you can ingrain the feel of being on plane.

 

Thought of something else: Make sure the butt of your club points along an extention of your target line in the photo that you have there ( the half way back position) In other words parallel to the ball. Put two clubs down behind your ball and point the butt of the club at the half way back position along the line formed. See in the picture there, the butt of your club would point way beyond the target line if you drew a straight line from the butt to the ground. Hope that helps. Oh, yeah a little more wrist hinge at that point in your swing would also be beneficial I think.

[tpariff]

Take your stance with your butt against a wall and make practice swings using a very slow motion. You will have enough room to make a more upright swing, and not near enough room to make that flat swing shown in the pic. It's a very simple drill that should help you "feel" what it's like to be more upright.

[taylormadefan]

Believe it or not, I think you're pretty close. It's okay to be flat with your arms and club.

 

However, the steepness has to come from somewhere. Let it come from your body. Can you post some pictures of you at address?

 

I think bending over a little more, and focusing on having your left shoulder point at the ball at the top of your backswing. It's pointing to the horizon in the above picture.

 

Here's a good drill that helps me when I get too flat with my shoulders:

[finalist]

I shouldn't be giving advice, but here goes nothing... to me you're left arm looks good, so just bend a little more at the waist. I think you look flat because you are standing so tall with a swing plane that is right on you shoulder plane. a little knee flex and waist bend (without hunching over) may look very good... but this may mess up the distance you need to stand from the ball and a chain reaction of bad swing motions can come about, so I'm withdrawing my advice and will nolonger give tips at the range

[Placebo]

I shouldn't be giving advice, but here goes nothing... to me you're left arm looks good, so just bend a little more at the waist. I think you look flat because you are standing so tall with a swing plane that is right on you shoulder plane. a little knee flex and waist bend (without hunching over) may look very good... but this may mess up the distance you need to stand from the ball and a chain reaction of bad swing motions can come about, so I'm withdrawing my advice and will nolonger give tips at the range

Thats classic! Sounds like the same arguments constantly battling in my own head haha.

[binneguru]

sure do.

 

don't think about anything. Take a shoebox with you to the range.

 

Hit balls with the shoebox ahead of the ball along your intended target line but away from the ball 3-4 inches just giving yourself enough room to swing and hit the ball without hitting the box. Basically it is like hitting up against a wall but with a little more give ;)

 

here is a crude example.

 

[___________]

o <-ball

 

u <-you

 

I sometimes get a little flat which gets me inside out.

 

The image i attached shows how I hit at the range. I won't hit my own golf club so I go ahead and use one of the clubs in the bag instead of the box. I have a pretty accomplished swing so you might want to go with something a bit more soft. Everything there is to scale and I leave the same gap as shown in the image regardless of which iron I am hitting.

 

There you go I just saved you 5 lessons.

[bobcat]

That's not a problem unless you are an unmarried woman, and even then there is a fix for it....(hint...nip, tuck)

[Kilmer030]

Here's a recent pic of me at address.

 

Sorry if it doesn't help you out any, this was the best pic I could find.

[taylormadefan]

Here's a recent pic of me at address.

 

Sorry if it doesn't help you out any, this was the best pic I could find.

 

It's hard to tell from that angle, but it looks like you could bend over a little more from the waist. Is the butt of the club pointed at your belt buckle or belly button? A pic from behind would be the best.

 

The big check I use to make sure my posture's okay is that the butt of the club is pointing at the middle of my zipper at about a fist's distance away. From there, I take the club back and want my left shoulder pointing at the ball, exaggerated with the short irons and wedges, and even so with the driver.

 

Take a look at Vijay's setup, it's texbook:

 

I'm guessing your contact is thin and misses are either big hooks or pushes?

[Kilmer030]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies and I am going to try them out tomorrow at the course.

 

And I will be sure to let everyone know how and what works out.

[taylormadefan]

Here's the best piece of advise I can give you. Go see a good teaching professional.

 

All the advise here is just meant as a starting point, a pro will be able to get you the changes you need to make.

 

finalist brought up a great point that making one change often times requires others. It can get frustrating without someone who knows what to expect and where to get you going.

 

Good luck!

[Furrankee]

weaken grip and thumbs up on backswing.

[Kilmer030]

Well everyone, I went out and played a few times in the past few days and I have figured out my what my problem was. It was that my stance was a little narrow and my weight distribution was way off. To begin with I had about a 70/30 percent weight distribution with the 70 percent on my front foot and that was not only causing me to be flat but also causing me to throw myself at the ball. So, thanks for all of your help and I will look to that if I ever get in trouble with this again.

[RWEEKS]

BEFORE YOU CHANGE ANYTHING, YOU NEED TO PURCHASE " THE PLANE TRUTH" BY JIM HARDY.

THE SINGLE PLANE SWING YOU HAVE IS WHAT YOU SEE ALOT OF THE PROS SWITCHING TO.

JIM HARDY ALSO HAS A WEBSITE "JIM HARDY GOLF.COM" WHERE THERE ARE FORUMS ON THE DIFFERENT

SWING PROBLEMS PEOPLE ENCOUNTER WHILE SWITCHING FROM A 2-PLANE TO A SINGLE PLANE SWING.

THERE IS ALOT OF INFORMATION ON THIS SITE THAT WOULD HELP.

HE HAS ALSO JUST COME OUT WITH THE DVD VERSION OF HIS BOOK AND GOES INTO MORE DETAIL

ABOUT THE TWO SWINGS, WITH DRILLS TO GROOVE THE PERTICULAR SWING YOU ARE WORKING ON.

 

HOPE THIS INFO. HELPS.

[GehenHerzog]

Vijay's setup is textbook? What are you smoking? Vijay's set up is one of the worst on tour.

[Jim_0068]

LOL...

 

None of the replies in the this thread even came close.

 

The reason why you are so flat, and yes flat is ok but not when you are drastically off plane in his photos, is because your left arm has over-rotated to the plane.

 

You have to understand that the left arm rotates to the plane, or clockwise, in the backswing. The more you allow this to happen the butt end of the club points "outside" the ball and you are flat and off plane. The more you don't allow this rotation to occur the more you will point "inside" the ball and be off plane.

 

You need to learn how much lead forearm rotation is enough for you to stay on plane.

[binneguru]

LOL...

 

None of the replies in the this thread even came close.

 

The reason why you are so flat, and yes flat is ok but not when you are drastically off plane in his photos, is because your left arm has over-rotated to the plane.

 

You have to understand that the left arm rotates to the plane, or clockwise, in the backswing. The more you allow this to happen the butt end of the club points "outside" the ball and you are flat and off plane. The more you don't allow this rotation to occur the more you will point "inside" the ball and be off plane.

 

You need to learn how much lead forearm rotation is enough for you to stay on plane.

 

What?

You can't look at a picture of his swing and see why he is so inside. Everyone has a theory. I have fought this for the past two years.

[Davkie]

Jim_0068 , is correct over-rotation of the left arm has caused this problem.

Look at the first picture his left elbow is pointed directly at the camera , should be pointing at the ground.

 

Also looking at the second picture your left elbow seems to be pointing towards the target side, so you have already set your left arm over rotated.

Get both the elbows pointed at there respective hips at address , should help get you started correctly.

[Jim_0068]

LOL...

 

None of the replies in the this thread even came close.

 

The reason why you are so flat, and yes flat is ok but not when you are drastically off plane in his photos, is because your left arm has over-rotated to the plane.

 

You have to understand that the left arm rotates to the plane, or clockwise, in the backswing. The more you allow this to happen the butt end of the club points "outside" the ball and you are flat and off plane. The more you don't allow this rotation to occur the more you will point "inside" the ball and be off plane.

 

You need to learn how much lead forearm rotation is enough for you to stay on plane.

 

What?

You can't look at a picture of his swing and see why he is so inside. Everyone has a theory. I have fought this for the past two years.

 

Not trying to be cocky here, i'm just right. I know the mechanics of the golf swing and know that in this particular situation (not all situations for a flat backswing) he has over rolled his left forearm. That's it.

[taylormadefan]

Not trying to be cocky here, i'm just right. I know the mechanics of the golf swing and know that in this particular situation (not all situations for a flat backswing) he has over rolled his left forearm. That's it.

 

What's the difference between Kilmer above and Mr. Hardy's picture on the left:

 

 

Once Mr. Hardy makes his full turn they both appear to be "too flat" (due to forearm rotation or whatever you're talking about). The only difference I see is that Mr. Hardy's left shoulder points at the ground and Kilmer's points at the horizon.

 

Why can one person do it and produce an efficient repeating swing due to a posture change while the other cant'?

 

Thanks for any info.

[GolfDrillGuru]

Typical problem with baseball players :crazy:

 

It all depends on what kind of swinging your trying to have. A one-planer swing is flatter, however your swing in that original picture is way too flat. The green line drawn shows where your swing would go if you were to stay on plane. Obviously to hit the ball you must drop it inside.. and attack the ball quite steeply at impact.

 

 

Taller players tend to have more upright swings, while more robust players tend to have flatter swings. Regardles sof whether your a one or two planer. That position at the top is way too flat. To get to that position you have to sweep it inside the target line on the backswing. Ideally, I would prefer to see you closer to the purple line.

 

You should try The Forced-On Path Drill To get rid of that inside motion.. and also check your left wrist position at the top.. it should be close to facing out in front of you.

 

Hope that helps.

[Jim_0068]

Not trying to be cocky here, i'm just right. I know the mechanics of the golf swing and know that in this particular situation (not all situations for a flat backswing) he has over rolled his left forearm. That's it.

 

What's the difference between Kilmer above and Mr. Hardy's picture on the left:

 

 

Once Mr. Hardy makes his full turn they both appear to be "too flat" (due to forearm rotation or whatever you're talking about). The only difference I see is that Mr. Hardy's left shoulder points at the ground and Kilmer's points at the horizon.

 

Why can one person do it and produce an efficient repeating swing due to a posture change while the other cant'?

 

Thanks for any info.

 

Kilmer is standing more upright.

 

Other than that, not much. The hardy "1 plane swing" IS an "off plane backswing." It just is.

 

That's why people who are true hardy "1 planers" mainly play a fade if they are doing the motion correctly because your hands never reach the top of the turned shoulder plane at the top in his type of backswing. So what happens? You have to find that location on your downswing which is a slight over the top move and then once you do that the only thing left to do is swing a little too far left through impact which creates the pull and as long as you "hold off" impact it will fade.

 

not saying it's a 'bad motion,' Olin Browne plays golf this way i just feel it isn't nescessarily the greatest idea for bad players who are generally already too flat and over the top to begin with.

[taylormadefan]

Kilmer is standing more upright.

 

Other than that, not much. The hardy "1 plane swing" IS an "off plane backswing." It just is.

 

That's why people who are true hardy "1 planers" mainly play a fade if they are doing the motion correctly because your hands never reach the top of the turned shoulder plane at the top in his type of backswing. So what happens? You have to find that location on your downswing which is a slight over the top move and then once you do that the only thing left to do is swing a little too far left through impact which creates the pull and as long as you "hold off" impact it will fade.

 

not saying it's a 'bad motion,' Olin Browne plays golf this way i just feel it isn't nescessarily the greatest idea for bad players who are generally already too flat and over the top to begin with.

 

I still don't understand why all the forearm rotation stuff you were talking about is okay for someone who's bent over, but not for ther other??? Not trying to be argumentative here, just tyring to understand things from your point of view.

 

As far as Hardy one planers playing mainly a fade, you picked the only one I could think of who does, and Olin does this by coming more "across the line" through impact (hecen the reason why he looks OTT even though he's not). I can show you it in person, but it's hard for me to describe.

 

All the other Hardy one plane poster boys (Jacobsen, Pernice, McCarron, Pooley) play either a TINY draw or dead straight ball. When you're coming so hard in to in with your hips it's easy to hit a pull or big draw by letting your arms get too active, but it's damn near impossible to hit a fade unless you switch over to Olin's method.

 

Just the $.02 of someone who's spent the last six months switiching over the Hardy one plane approach.

[300_yard_drives]

it looks like your feet are below the ball, which makes your swing look so flat.

[Jim_0068]

Kilmer is standing more upright.

 

Other than that, not much. The hardy "1 plane swing" IS an "off plane backswing." It just is.

 

That's why people who are true hardy "1 planers" mainly play a fade if they are doing the motion correctly because your hands never reach the top of the turned shoulder plane at the top in his type of backswing. So what happens? You have to find that location on your downswing which is a slight over the top move and then once you do that the only thing left to do is swing a little too far left through impact which creates the pull and as long as you "hold off" impact it will fade.

 

not saying it's a 'bad motion,' Olin Browne plays golf this way i just feel it isn't nescessarily the greatest idea for bad players who are generally already too flat and over the top to begin with.

 

I still don't understand why all the forearm rotation stuff you were talking about is okay for someone who's bent over, but not for ther other??? Not trying to be argumentative here, just tyring to understand things from your point of view.

 

As far as Hardy one planers playing mainly a fade, you picked the only one I could think of who does, and Olin does this by coming more "across the line" through impact (hecen the reason why he looks OTT even though he's not). I can show you it in person, but it's hard for me to describe.

 

All the other Hardy one plane poster boys (Jacobsen, Pernice, McCarron, Pooley) play either a TINY draw or dead straight ball. When you're coming so hard in to in with your hips it's easy to hit a pull or big draw by letting your arms get too active, but it's damn near impossible to hit a fade unless you switch over to Olin's method.

 

Just the $.02 of someone who's spent the last six months switiching over the Hardy one plane approach.

 

let's take to private message to discuss more so thread can stay on topic cool? i'll send you one quoting this post to keep discussing

[honorerdieu]

Here's my problem; since I played baseball for 6-7 years I've had a naturally flat backswing which I can usually manage. However, every now and then I tend to get extremely, extremely flat with my backswing. Then, I don't know how to get it back on plane.. even trying to hit a cut results in a flat backswing. So I leave you with this picture illustrating just how flat I am and hoping that you all know some drills or anything else that will help me to get back on plane.

 

 

You would hit a decent shot if something was supporting the ball at chest level. However, being that the ball is on the ground, you need to bend over at the waist until you feel a slight stretch in your hamstrings. The Jim Hardy rule is to bend over, with your spine angle 35 to 45 degrees less of vertical, until your shoulder plane is within the 48 inch zone distance from your feet. That will allow your arms to work UP with minimal forearm rotation away from the ball, and deliver the the clubface to the ball on plane.

 

The very fatal mistake is to rotate the arms so that the club is wrapping around your right thigh during backswing. Committing this fatal mistake will result a very flat backswing which is often a precursor to slicing the ball from behind stuck behind, or flipping over with the hands to square the clubface (hooking). The correct sequence is to keep the clubshaft OUTSIDE of your hands while the hands go by the right thigh, getting behind the hips, then up and behind your head with the arms matching your shoulder plane. At the top of the backswing, your right elbow will be tucked underneath and BEHIND the side seam of your shirt.

 

You aren't likely to grasp this entire concept because we all process information differently. Purchase a copy of The Plane Truth for Golfers, or better yet, pre-order the 4-set DVD by Jim Hardy at www.planetruthforgolfers.com .

 

Tim C.