Need Some Help From the PHX Gents

[Zooko23]

Which Course

Alrite guys got the 2 year anniversary coming up and was looking to play somewhere in phx around noonish on the 24th, which is a saturday. We are driving up from Tucson so for a noon round leave about 830ish find the place eat and play. From there we are gonna head to the dbacks game. Yes they suck but I get free tickets so I dont care. Any ideas to where we should play. Thinking of walking TPC Champions. Other places maybe Papago, The Duke, or Ahwatukee CC. Wanna keep the price of it around 120-175 for the two of us, since we are going to the game after. She can play and at her best was a 3 now maybe an 8 so she can hack it. What do you guys think? Any and all advice would help. Played A.C.C and the TPC, but I dunno what to pick

[ckguy914]

How about ASU Karsten? Not too far away from downtown Phoenix from Tempe.

[teejaywhy]

So much to choose from... which kind of golfer are you?
- Play golf for fun?
- Play golf for the challenge?
- Play golf for the beautiful scenery?

End of April you should have some great choices with your budget.

I might be inclined to pick someplace that has locker room and shower facilities only because I would hate going to the game and spending the rest of the night all sweaty and sticky. Unfortunately, I'm at a loss to suggest any because I don't normally pay attention to these things. I did notice they had a nice locker room at Whirlwind and it seems I've seen others...

[puttnforthe8]

Legacy is a good choice too...on the way in...Shower facilities and enjoyable course in great shape. Not desert golf, but good golf.

Whirlwind is on the way and you would hit that before you even got to town..so good choice there. Good food too.

Red Mountain Ranch is not too far off the route for you as well and might be an alternative.

BTW...the Dbacks are not that bad...get webbie back and they will be contending!

[Zooko23]

We play mostly for the challenge. Always wanna try something new. And yeah I know the dbacks arent that bad but the game last nite was brutal! They will win more games if they get a closer

[troonnorth]

Go play Southern Dunes in Maricopa. Fred Couples design. Great track, full locker rooms so can shower. Pace of play is excellent and it's on the way for you.

[KobeRothlisberger]

I 2nd Troonnorths comment on Southern Dunes! Its only a lil bit off the 10 coming from Tucson. It is a sweet track as I just played it for the first time couple weeks ago. Its the nicest links course in the desert! Looks a bit brown but you get great lies and the greens roll true and straight. Very reasonably priced too. I played for $39 during the week. If you check golfnow you might even be able to get a twosome out for under $100 on the weekend. Heck after talking about it I'm going to try and get out there this next week to play

[Zooko23]

Say if we had a 2 tee time at southern dunes would we be able to get to the game by say 630?

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Zooko23' date='16 April 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1271481486' post='2384551']
Say if we had a 2 tee time at southern dunes would we be able to get to the game by say 630?
[/quote]

That would be pushing it. Maricopa is about 50 minutes to downtown with no traffic. On a Saturday, best case would be 4 hr round.

[Zooko23]

Thats cool. I am thinking about just playing golf and kinda saving the game for another day. I can tickets to the game whenever I want so its not end all be all. But Seriously thinking about southern dunes. Cause I heard its a great track

[fore_life]

Ahwatukee gets pretty slow on the weekend, and I think the Duke is the same. Southern Dune def gets less play then alot of other places and is a sweet course.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='troonnorth' date='16 April 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1271447884' post='2383703']
Go play Southern Dunes in Maricopa. [s]Fred Couples [/s]design.
[/quote]

Lee Schmidt and Brian Curley.

(Fred Couples adds the "name" and gets a nod as a design consultant but let's be fair, Freddy is a golfer, not a golf course architect)

Southern Dunes in my Arizona top 10 public access.

[KobeRothlisberger]

Go play Southern Dunes in Maricopa. Fred Couples design.

 

Lee Schmidt and Brian Curley.

 

(Fred Couples adds the "name" and gets a nod as a design consultant but let's be fair, Freddy is a golfer, not a golf course architect)

 

Southern Dunes in my Arizona top 10 public access.

 

Actually Freddy designs some sick courses! He might have been a consultant on Southern Dunes but he designed a couple killer courses I've played in Cali. He likes the rolling links style courses with lots of undulations all around the course. Which is what I like to play. Makes for great tee shots and approaches.

[gotj1]

Played Southern Dunes on Sunday morning. Bring bug repellent, got eaten alive by mosquito's. It seems they punched the greens a while back so the green were still shaggy a bit, but still rolled great. $49 on golfnow for a 7am on Sunday was a screaming deal on that course. The range balls were included. It's a great course. And whatever you do, hit it over the bunker on 14! Otherwise it's a blind approach shot to a narrow green that has more sand around it than Normandy. Love this course.

[fore_life]

+128274189641285612875625815 on bug spray for southern dunes. I got DESTROYED there last April at the first WRX outing.

[Clueless]

I travelled to Souther Dunes yesterday eager to play this track after all the buzz on this board. What a buzz kill. Goofy design with lots of blind shots and landing areas that feed into bunkers. Most disapointing was the condition of the course. By far the worst Troon course I have ever played. Greens were bumby with bare spots, fairways and rough with bare spots and lots of weeds. The nice clubhouse and great staff didn't make up for course condition and design. I guess we all have our own opinions and expectations when we hit the links. I'll stick to the tried and true Scottsdale area courses I am familiar with.

[KobeRothlisberger]

Thats crazy that it was in such bad shape! When I played it a couple weeks ago the greens were a bit bare but rolled fairly true. And the fairways were sweet with nice tight lies. Guess they let it go from what it sounds like. Yeah the course definitely isn't set up for the higher handicappers. I was hitting it pure when I played it and I loved the layout and thought it was visually nice and had some sweet pin placements on the elevated greens. I guess everyone likes different tracks. For the $$ its one of the best tracks I've played out in the valley and I've hit up the top 10 according to lists. Guess its hit and miss with the greens maybe? Who knows?!

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Clueless' date='25 April 2010 - 07:26 AM' timestamp='1272205593' post='2399417']
I travelled to Souther Dunes yesterday eager to play this track after all the buzz on this board. What a buzz kill. Goofy design with lots of blind shots and landing areas that feed into bunkers. Most disapointing was the condition of the course. By far the worst Troon course I have ever played. Greens were bumby with bare spots, fairways and rough with bare spots and lots of weeds. The nice clubhouse and great staff didn't make up for course condition and design. I guess we all have our own opinions and expectations when we hit the links. I'll stick to the tried and true Scottsdale area courses I am familiar with.
[/quote]

Unfortunate that the conditioning was not up to par. I do think some folks put too much emphasis on conditioning but I haven't been out there recently so I can't speak to what is going on.

But I'm having trouble digesting the statement: [i]"Goofy design with lots of blind shots and landing areas that feed into bunkers."[/i]

As you said, we all have our opinions about what makes a good course. Some like to stick to the familiar. Others, like myself, enjoy seeking out and playing different courses and experience different styles and design elements.

I will grant you that Southern Dunes does not fit the mold of the typical tourist/resort/country-club-for-a-day type course. It was designed as a member's course for a private club. And perhaps where you see goofy, I see quirk and fun that makes for an interesting layout that lends itself to repeat play.

I expect you might be one of those that prefer the "it's all in front of you" type designs. Where each hole presents itself directly and the strategy is easily determined. Hit to the obvious landing area, then hit to the green, avoiding the obvious hazards along the way. You can play it once or you can play it 50 times, the basic strategy remains the same. Pretty boring if you ask me.

On the other hand, there are courses that don't easily reveal themselves on the first play. Sometimes it takes multiple plays to figure out the best strategy for a hole. Some courses actually use the land to influence the play. Some designers use visual tricks to fool the golfer and making a shot look easier or harder than it really is. What looks like the obvious landing area might feed the ball into a bunker. There can be contours that can be used to put the ball into the proper position or put the ball into a bad position if improperly executed. Firm and fast conditions actually accent these features and make the ground game strategy much more important. Strategy that is not needed on the soft green tourist courses where you can pretty much expect the ball to stop close to where it lands.

So these are some of the things I like about Southern Dunes. It is not the typical design that seems to be found on most modern courses. It has some unusual features and interesting character. It is wide and without a lot of rough. The fact that it does not reveal itself with a single play makes it all that more interesting.

But that's me.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Without copying TJY's statement I agree completley. I find that from a design perspective Southern Dunes is one of the best in the valley and can be played a few different ways depending on wind and pin placement.
They have a great mix of holes out there not just the same bland yardage hole after hole. There is a lot of risk/reward shots that become easier after you have played it a time or two and know what bunkers to carry off the tee and when to layup on the par 5's is the best play even if you can get it home in two. The design team does leave plenty of options but in the end its how you take advantage of those options.

Southern Dunes just fits my eye to a T and even with the back tees playing a little longer than I would normally prefer to play at 7337 I have always been able to score very well out there even from my first time out. You have to hit smart shots especially into the greens where being above the hole is not really an option.

Should add that this time of year you also have quite of few courses sanding the greens. I could see how that coupled with playing a dormant bermuda course that has not fully grown in yet could be a bit displeasing to the eye. The last time I played it in Jan I fully enjoyed myself and thought the course was great(but maybe that was just the 76 on the score card)

[KobeRothlisberger]

I travelled to Souther Dunes yesterday eager to play this track after all the buzz on this board. What a buzz kill. Goofy design with lots of blind shots and landing areas that feed into bunkers. Most disapointing was the condition of the course. By far the worst Troon course I have ever played. Greens were bumby with bare spots, fairways and rough with bare spots and lots of weeds. The nice clubhouse and great staff didn't make up for course condition and design. I guess we all have our own opinions and expectations when we hit the links. I'll stick to the tried and true Scottsdale area courses I am familiar with.

 

Unfortunate that the conditioning was not up to par. I do think some folks put too much emphasis on conditioning but I haven't been out there recently so I can't speak to what is going on.

 

But I'm having trouble digesting the statement: "Goofy design with lots of blind shots and landing areas that feed into bunkers."

 

As you said, we all have our opinions about what makes a good course. Some like to stick to the familiar. Others, like myself, enjoy seeking out and playing different courses and experience different styles and design elements.

 

I will grant you that Southern Dunes does not fit the mold of the typical tourist/resort/country-club-for-a-day type course. It was designed as a member's course for a private club. And perhaps where you see goofy, I see quirk and fun that makes for an interesting layout that lends itself to repeat play.

 

I expect you might be one of those that prefer the "it's all in front of you" type designs. Where each hole presents itself directly and the strategy is easily determined. Hit to the obvious landing area, then hit to the green, avoiding the obvious hazards along the way. You can play it once or you can play it 50 times, the basic strategy remains the same. Pretty boring if you ask me.

 

On the other hand, there are courses that don't easily reveal themselves on the first play. Sometimes it takes multiple plays to figure out the best strategy for a hole. Some courses actually use the land to influence the play. Some designers use visual tricks to fool the golfer and making a shot look easier or harder than it really is. What looks like the obvious landing area might feed the ball into a bunker. There can be contours that can be used to put the ball into the proper position or put the ball into a bad position if improperly executed. Firm and fast conditions actually accent these features and make the ground game strategy much more important. Strategy that is not needed on the soft green tourist courses where you can pretty much expect the ball to stop close to where it lands.

 

So these are some of the things I like about Southern Dunes. It is not the typical design that seems to be found on most modern courses. It has some unusual features and interesting character. It is wide and without a lot of rough. The fact that it does not reveal itself with a single play makes it all that more interesting.

 

But that's me.

 

 

Well said brother! You couldn't have put it any better! I hate cookie cutter golf courses that are all right in front of you. Courses that you can play just as well the first time out as the 20th. Southern Dunes really fits "MY" eye well. Challenges you to think of where you are going to land the ball and on what line. Rather than just grab the driver and rip it! Plus handicappers can have fits there I'm sure. Especially if they can't hit soft shots into the greens.

 

I'm looking forward to playing it for the second time soon as I can really attack some holes differently.

 

 

[gotj1]

I think I mentioned that they had punched the greens a couple of weeks ago, so it made for some bumpy putts and inconsistent speeds. The grass was green again and there were still tight lies around the place. To add to the others here, once you've been playing around here the desert courses can get monotonous. If you've seen one pellet riddled Saguaro you've seen them all. Southern Dunes gets away from that and it's challenging and fun what more could you ask. FYI, don't miss all the greens on the back nine it makes for a long day....just sayin'.

[Ohiogolfer1]

I am far from a high handicapper i play to about a 3 right now. I dont like courses like what your are describing at southern dunes. Sounds a lot like troon north pinnicle and I cant stand that course. A lot of troon courses to me are gimmic courses and if you like that by all means these courses are for you. I dont mind the occasional par 4 where you dont hit driver due to a bunker or a perferred spot but at troon north i hit driver 3 times all day all on par 5s and we played from the tips that is just no fun. I think from time to time these courses are fun but i perfer a challange and a clean layout any day of the week. Take a course like TPC champions that is exstreme easy layout. everything right in front of you and a boring layout. but take a track like legends trail requires shapping and thinking but you can get your grip and rip on a hole to and not be pentalized for a great drive. I think you both have great points and it truly is preferance. for me I will play any course with great greens and length maybe this is why Talking Sticks South is one of my favorite tracks. just putting my thoughts out there

[fore_life]

IMO, southern dunes is a track that you'd better be ripping your driver well off of the tee. Its not gimmicky whatsoever, no 500 yard par 4's that force you to hit 5 iron off the tee. Its a great design, and I totally agree with tjy

[Ohiogolfer1]

I have never played the dunes so cant say you arent telling the truth just from the description sounded very gimmicy like most troon tracks

I came from Ohio and for anyone that lived there or played there it has a course called blue heron. it is a troon course and if you ever go is rated the number 1 hardest course in the midwest bring 2 boxes of balls the first time you play.

that is what southern dunes sounded like

[KobeRothlisberger]

[quote name='Ohiogolfer1' date='27 April 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1272412144' post='2404949']
I am far from a high handicapper i play to about a 3 right now. I dont like courses like what your are describing at southern dunes. Sounds a lot like troon north pinnicle and I cant stand that course. A lot of troon courses to me are gimmic courses and if you like that by all means these courses are for you. I dont mind the occasional par 4 where you dont hit driver due to a bunker or a perferred spot but at troon north i hit driver 3 times all day all on par 5s and we played from the tips that is just no fun. I think from time to time these courses are fun but i perfer a challange and a clean layout any day of the week. Take a course like TPC champions that is exstreme easy layout. everything right in front of you and a boring layout. but take a track like legends trail requires shapping and thinking but you can get your grip and rip on a hole to and not be pentalized for a great drive. I think you both have great points and it truly is preferance. for me I will play any course with great greens and length maybe this is why Talking Sticks South is one of my favorite tracks. just putting my thoughts out there
[/quote]

Southern Dunes is nothing like Troon North Pinnacle! First off its a links course with heather all over the place and bunkers strategically placed along each hole. Pinnacle definitely has some "Mickey Mouse" holes like the first par 5 on the front with that huge boulder in the middle that you have no clue where to hit it! Southern Dunes you can pound driver off every hole if you want which I did when I played it. The longer the better as the fairways run forever on big hits. Its hella long too from the tips(7500 yards). Don't let what some gripe about from you experiencing it for yourself. If you are a 3 you will have plenty of fun at this place. For the $$ it can't be beat IMO. Just wish it wasn't so damn far out in BFE otherwise I'd try and play it a lot more.

[Ohiogolfer1]

you are thinking of troon monument that is the one with the retarded no purpose bolder in the middle of the fairway. if you thought that was mickey mouse try pinnicle. i wanted to set it on fire

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Kobe that par 5 you are describing is now part of the Monument course. Troon rerouted the holes a while back and now the Pinnacle is awesome, and Monument has the goofy holes now.

[KobeRothlisberger]

Yup you are right. I mixed up the 2 courses! I actually liked Pinnacle much better than Monument. Although I loved that driveable par 4 15th on monument! I bombed a 3 metal to 2 feet off the tee!

[KobeRothlisberger]

[quote name='One_Putt_Blunder' date='27 April 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1272413131' post='2404993']
Kobe that par 5 you are describing is now part of the Monument course. Troon rerouted the holes a while back and now the Pinnacle is awesome, and Monument has the goofy holes now.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree! Pinnacle is way better than Monument IMO. Heard they used to have the 9s different. I played it last summer when I moved out here and was very impressed with that track. One of my favs out here! It had the purest greens I've seen in the desert so far

[fore_life]

Ohio, FYI Southern Dunes is only a Troon course because they bought it after the course went bankrupt. Now its open to the public, and women,too. You should def go out there and play it, or just look at the course flyover/one_putts pictures.