PGA Tour and the Average Golfer

jportz · July 15, 2006

You guys are talking about no way because they couldn't hit it far enough off the tee but the difference maker is that you get 4 attempts around the greens and at every putt. Who cares if they're still 230 out on a par 4...one of them is going to get it close and then with 4 tries to get up and down they would "almost" always make par. I say that the scramble team above might not make a bunch of birdies but I doubt they would ever (or rarely) take a bogie. I've played in 4 man scrambles with a bunch of friends that are all single digit hc's and our goal is to shoot 20 under every tournament. We have done it once but feel disappointed if we only shoot 15 under.

The handicap range mentioned in the first post would easily be able to shoot 4 or 5 under at ANY course. We have 4 man teams with all 4 players in the double digit handicap range and they still shoot 8 under (on an easy course) but my point is that when you have 4 guys getting to putt....come on....always getting the read....you guys know how it is. You let the high handicappers hit first, get the read and then the 2 single digit guys get a chance at it. They would never 3 putt and if one of the first guys lags one close then the other guys can be aggressive which means they would make a few of the longer ones.

I agree that this is something we must see on TV......I would bet on the scramble team but it sure would be entertaining to watch.

Good post....let's put some pressure on ESPN to put it together. :drinks:

shoe295 · July 15, 2006

Interesting topic indeed! I don't think you'd see the scramble guys do that well. We're talking playing in front of people for real money against guys who can really play on greens that are slightly slower than the linoleum of a rental units kitchen floor. I'd say 2 of the guys start the day with their raisens in their throats and about the 3rd time the last to hit has a do or die shot his raisens join the others. What you wind up with is a bunch of amatuers who can barely breath talking in high squeaky voices, much less hit a 3/4 7 iron to a pin that's 9 paces from the edge of a green set right next to a lake. This would be great TV I agree but it would wind up scrambled toast.

jportz · July 15, 2006

Well I guess the bottom line would be the abilities of the players. Not all 5 handicappers are alike and not all 15 handicappers are alike.

Let me pick my scramble team and I'll be the guinea pig..... :drinks:

CowtownTexas · July 16, 2006

After day one of our clubs two man scramble, I feel pretty certain that the scramble would dominate when it just comes to playing ability. The scores were pretty low with just two many teams and would only be magnified by 4 man teams.

The equalizer would be the mental side, but there's no way to judge that without actually doing it. We have players with PGA level talent in our club, but for whatever reason they haven't made it on tour (well, a few have, but they aren't the guys playing in a scramble this weekend and most aren't on tour anymore).

Even the two-man teams in the last flight (most handicaps 18 and above) were shooting near par gross. The guys in the championship flight (single digit guys) were going very low. Even in my flight (3rd), the leaders under par. If you were to make a team of two guys in my flight and two from the lower flights (similar to the qualifications in the initial post), they would shoot very, very low.

This is all being done at a course that typically has one of the 5 highest cut lines on tour. The typical cut is +2 or +3 every year with most winning scores being in the -10 to -13 range. I'd be surprised if the winners of the championship flight don't get in that range after just two days.

CowtownTexas · July 16, 2006

Okay, we finished our tournament. The two guys who won the flight with handicaps between 5 and 10 shot -13 for two days gross. The two who won the flight with handicaps of 15 and 17 shot 1 over for two days gross.

Let them all combine and the scores would definately drop on putts alone. The two lower handicapped guys hit the ball far enough that distance wouldn't be a problem on any course.

The mental side might make it tougher, but really only on the guy hitting last if the other three screwed up royally. Even then, it wouldn't be for more than a shot or two per day.

A scramble foursome would dominate across the board from what I've seen. It would definately make for a great off-season tv tournament. I'd imagine every hack in the country would tune in to see how it stacks up.

mji009 · August 16, 2006

Bump.

Look for news of a PGA best ball amateur tourney where regional qualifiers will go against pros in a best ball format in 2007. Looks like we will get an answer to the OP's question next year.

dukesweb · August 16, 2006

There is no way that some of the 15-25 handicappers I play with could even help the team with more than 1-3 shots per round. Hell, these guys would not even get the ball on long par 4's to the fairway cut. The 15-25 handicappers you play with must be sandbagging it. :help:

CowtownTexas · August 16, 2006

There is no way that some of the 15-25 handicappers I play with could even help the team with more than 1-3 shots per round. Hell, these guys would not even get the ball on long par 4's to the fairway cut. The 15-25 handicappers you play with must be sandbagging it. :help:

Based on some of their scores recently, the term "sand-bagging" definitely comes to mind. One of our "17" handicappers recently fired a nice little 79 at us for a net 62. Definitely raised some eye brows.

The best-ball tournament sounds interesting, but if it's gross I'd go with the PGA guys. A good bit more pressure in best-ball compared to a scramble.

Raggedclaw23 · August 16, 2006

Really an interesting thread! I agree with many here who said that the foursome as stipulated (two <10, two 10>) doesn't stand a chance of surviving on tour. Putting and pressure would eat them up (and it would be very dangerous for the galleries!). Now, I think four sub-fives might do OK. There's a lot more consistency in that kind of game to start with.

I could definitely see a silly season event like this. Challenge the tour! You and your buddies take on the pros. 4 guys versus one pro. Every once in awhile the ams would catch a pro on a bad day.