Quite Possibly The Worst And Silliest Golf Instruction Ever

[DoctorLoomis]

Mods....please do not lock this thread nor move it into another topic. I ask this because people need to see this. They need to know the truth and what is not the truth in order to get better. I am not posting this to personally bash the instructor...and I will not mention his name. However, this instructor was the 2000 NATIONAL PGA Teacher of the Year and is ranked in Golf Digest's top 20 as we speak. This instruction is inaccurate, silly, and flat out wrong. I hope at least one person can improve from seeing it.

 

In the first photo he says, "because of the inside out swing path the ball starts out to the right of the target." That is absolutely patently wrong. Then he says one of the silliest things I have ever read or heard from a so-called world class instructor. He says, "a draw produces a TUMBLING FORWARD SPIN, SIMILAR TO TOPSPIN IN TENNIS!!!" Good lord! Then he says, "a draw hits the geen with the same FORWARD SPIN." Unreal.

 

In the second photo he says, "because of the left swing path the ball starts out left of the target." Once again that is patently wrong.

 

In the third photo he says, "the ball's initial direction is determined by the clubface path through impact." Wow.....wow.

 

As I said above, I am not here to bash this man. He is helpless...he knows not what he speaks of. I am here to maybe expose what is wrong and incorrect with mainstream golf instruction....and help someone improve.

[farmer]

Of course you're bashing, and you have bashed this to death already.

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1281055017' post='2621441']
Of course you're bashing, and you have bashed this to death already.
[/quote]
You are focusing on calling me a basher....which I am not....and not focusing on a so called world class teacher telling people that a draw has freaking topspin. Yes....topspin.

[larrybud]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1281055017' post='2621441']
Of course you're bashing, and you have bashed this to death already.
[/quote]

So what's the point of posting this if we don't know who it is and when it was written?

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1281055379' post='2621453']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1281055017' post='2621441']
Of course you're bashing, and you have bashed this to death already.
[/quote]

So what's the point of posting this if we don't know who it is and when it was written?
[/quote]

Larry, the last time I publicly named someone...Mr Harmon...and I publicly exposed him as not knowing what he is talking about...I was accused of personal attacks, bashing, and the like. So, today I decided to not name this world class teacher so we could concentrate on the absolute wrongness and silliness of the teaching....and not the teacher. I do not want to be accused of attacking someone personally.

[Harry Longshanks]

It's Dr. Jim Suttie.

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='Harry Longshanks' timestamp='1281056624' post='2621506']
It's Dr. Jim Suttie.
[/quote]


Harry, I didn't say that name..you did...lol.

A DOCTOR wouldn't dare say that a draw creates topspin.....would he?

[KevCarter]

TVF, Your posts have become excessively arrogant, and you are going to drive people further from S&T. It's a shame, IMHO, S&T teachers have been gentlemen here, and you are going to destroy their good work in this community.

Kevin

[mtsmith]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1281055017' post='2621441']
Of course you're bashing, and you have bashed this to death already.
[/quote]

AMEN

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1281057506' post='2621542']
TVF, Your posts have become excessively arrogant, and you are going to drive people further from S&T. It's a shame, IMHO, S&T teachers have been gentlemen here, and you are going to destroy their good work in this community.

Kevin
[/quote]


Kevin I am not arrogant. I simply am stating truth and fact. Is there something wrong with revealing silly and preposterous golf instruction. Should we just simply pat him on the head and overlook it? Secondly, this post has abolutely nothing to do with S&T. Nothing. This post is 100000% about showing people the awful instruction thats out there..and the reasons that make it hard to improve at this game. Nothing more.

For you to refer to me as arrogant when you do not know me...and to wrongly and falsely tie this post to S&T....is not fair at all.

[larrybud]

I don't think anyone in this thread is bashing anyone. The instruction is ridiculous. The only golf balls that have top spin are balls that are topped, and they certain aren't going to get airborne. It's kinda funny that he mentions tennis, because tennis players purposely hit ball with topspin so they'll nosedive into the court!

I don't know when this book was written, but for many pga pros it was a long time misconception that the ball started in the same direction as the club head path. I guess I'll sorta give him a pass on this one.

[mtsmith]

Are we REALLY going to go back to EVERY book/video/magazine/etc and try and show how these guys don't know what they are talking about when it comes to making the ball curve.

There is about 50 threads on this site explaining the "New Ballflight Laws." Do we really need another one?

The horse is so, so beaten to death

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1281058401' post='2621584']
[b]I don't think anyone in this thread is bashing anyone. The instruction is ridiculous. [/b]The only golf balls that have top spin are balls that are topped, and they certain aren't going to get airborne. It's kinda funny that he mentions tennis, because tennis players purposely hit ball with topspin so they'll nosedive into the court!

I don't know when this book was written, but for many pga pros it was a long time misconception that the ball started in the same direction as the club head path. I guess I'll sorta give him a pass on this one.
[/quote]


Larry thank you. I am not here to bash this guy....he has done enough damage to himself. He needs no help from me. You are correct...the instruction is absolutely ridiculous. Tell you what....to Kevin and others that think I am too hard on this guy...we willl give him a pass on the fact the he has no idea about face and path. We will chalk those things up to whatever you want. Nevermind that many teachers had the face angle/path relationship correct as far back as 40+ years ago. However, I absolutely refuse to give this guy a pass on his asonine preposterous statement that a draw creates TOPSPIN. You guys that accuse me of bashing....can you honesty sit there and overlook this topspin stuff? Honestly??? How can you sit there...knowing that he is ranked 15th in the world....and makes statements that a 9th grade physics student know are foolish....and tell me I am wrong to expose this jackassery????

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281058719' post='2621604']
Are we REALLY going to go back to EVERY book/video/magazine/etc and try and show how these guys don't know what they are talking about when it comes to making the ball curve.

There is about 50 threads on this site explaining the "New Ballflight Laws." Do we really need another one?

The horse is so, so beaten to death
[/quote]

mtsmith....forget the curve...forget drawing and fading. Let it go. But TOPSPIN....are you serious? You honestly think telling someone a golf ball has TOSPIN is acceptable in ANY forum??? Really?

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1281058401' post='2621584']
I don't think anyone in this thread is bashing anyone. The instruction is ridiculous. The only golf balls that have top spin are balls that are topped, and they certain aren't going to get airborne. It's kinda funny that he mentions tennis, because tennis players purposely hit ball with topspin so they'll nosedive into the court!

I don't know when this book was written, but for many pga pros it was a long time misconception that the ball started in the same direction as the club head path. I guess I'll sorta give him a pass on this one.
[/quote]

I don't have a skin in this thread or argument. I actually find the topic intriguing, but I think there has been multiple threads started by the OP which has incited quite a bit of angst. Based on my observations, it has less to do with the actual topic, but more the tone.

Again, I don't really care either way. I actually enjoy the topic as it's something that opens my eyes from how I was originally taught, but I can see why quite a few people find the tone less than enlightening or encouraging of good dialogue. Maybe if the original post focused more on how proper information (the "new laws) could help golfers instead of showing how silly a top professional's instruction is, then it would be better received...

[grahler]

Let's all be like Tall and exhaustively search through golf documents throughout history and find fundamental flaws and categorically list every one of them right now on this thread!!!!!

[mtsmith]

No it is not right. Topspin is not possible unless a topped shot.

My point is, we have SO many of these he/she does not know how the golf ball flies threads it is just insane.

We get it. Lots of the teachers don't tell it right.

Maybe if the guys that know the 'new ball flight laws' would stop posting 'bash threads' and start teaching them then they could replace these top 20 teachers that know nothing.



BTW, Go Vols!

[msturkie]

Another one of these threads? I'm sorry, I don't know you either, but your posts do come off as arrogant and you do seem to be bashing the guy, even though you claim you're not. I know he's wrong, but I'm willing to overlook it as this was the common way of thinking for however many years and I have no idea when this book was written. I also have no idea if this teacher still teaches this or if he's familiar with the "new laws" at all. I'm not taking lessons from him, so it doesn't bother me one bit. However, reading yet another post on the same topic has me coming out of my usual lurking.

[mtsmith]

[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1281059277' post='2621631']
Let's all be like Tall and exhaustively search through golf documents throughout history and find fundamental flaws and categorically [b]list every one of them right now on this thread[/b]!!!!!
[/quote]

NO, start a DIFFERENT thread for each one of them!!!

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1281059277' post='2621631']
Let's all be like Tall and exhaustively search through golf documents throughout history and find fundamental flaws and categorically list every one of them right now on this thread!!!!!
[/quote]


I have a better idea...lets close our eyes to foolish statements. Lets give people free reign to write silly preposterous things and dont call them out on it. Lets walk around blind and instead of seeing truth..lets make fun of and badmouth those that have the guts to call it like they see it. Its easy to sit there and not be willing to stand up and put your a** on the line....as I have. Its easy to not have the guts to call someone out and be willing to prove the person is wrong with facts. I am willing to get flamed by some of you .....if it means I am exposing stupidity and ignorance.....then so be it.

[mtsmith]

Then why don't you, TallVol, go to a PGA/Nationwide/LPGA/European/etc Tour event and preach it there? I would love to see you be a top 10 teacher one day, seriously. But you aren't going to get there by posting on a website.
There is plenty of info on GolfWRX for people to learn the new laws.

[square]

Worst instruction ever ?
That would be anything related to TGM, S&T, discussion of "ball flight laws", "swing patterns", "face angles" etc... Basically any instruction focused on in motion swing position (s) is counter productive.

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281052941' post='2621384']
Mods....please do not lock this thread nor move it into another topic. I ask this because people need to see this. They need to know the truth and what is not the truth in order to get better. I am not posting this to personally bash the instructor...and I will not mention his name. However, this instructor was the 2000 NATIONAL PGA Teacher of the Year and is ranked in Golf Digest's top 20 as we speak. This instruction is inaccurate, silly, and flat out wrong. I hope at least one person can improve from seeing it.

In the first photo he says, "because of the inside out swing path the ball starts out to the right of the target." That is absolutely patently wrong. Then he says one of the silliest things I have ever read or heard from a so-called world class instructor. He says, "a draw produces a TUMBLING FORWARD SPIN, SIMILAR TO TOPSPIN IN TENNIS!!!" Good lord! Then he says, "a draw hits the geen with the same FORWARD SPIN." Unreal.

In the second photo he says, "because of the left swing path the ball starts out left of the target." Once again that is patently wrong.

In the third photo he says, "the ball's initial direction is determined by the clubface path through impact." Wow.....wow.

As I said above, I am not here to bash this man. He is helpless...he knows not what he speaks of. I am here to maybe expose what is wrong and incorrect with mainstream golf instruction....and help someone improve.
[/quote]

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281060308' post='2621673']
Then why don't you, TallVol, go to a PGA/Nationwide/LPGA/European/etc Tour event and preach it there? I would love to see you be a top 10 teacher one day, seriously. But you aren't going to get there by posting on a website.
There is plenty of info on GolfWRX for people to learn the new laws.
[/quote]


mtsmith....I have no issues with you whatsoever. I welcome your comments and feedback.

[grahler]

Tall- you said
Its easy to sit there and not be willing to stand up and put your a** on the line....as I have.
Are

[grahler]

You related to a guy named Keern-I think qwe are trying to say ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!

[anth]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281059767' post='2621656']
[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1281059277' post='2621631']
Let's all be like Tall and exhaustively search through golf documents throughout history and find fundamental flaws and categorically list every one of them right now on this thread!!!!!
[/quote]


I have a better idea...lets close our eyes to foolish statements. Lets give people free reign to write silly preposterous things and dont call them out on it. Lets walk around blind and instead of seeing truth..lets make fun of and badmouth those that have the guts to call it like they see it. Its easy to sit there and not be willing to stand up and put your a** on the line....as I have. Its easy to not have the guts to call someone out and be willing to prove the person is wrong with facts. I am willing to get flamed by some of you .....if it means I am exposing stupidity and ignorance.....then so be it.
[/quote]

Lucky all of us luddites have you to show us the error of our ways then. It's not easy to put your a** on the line. But it's not hard to show a little respect and humility either.

Maybe you want to exhume all the flat-earthers and parade them around in the town square so we can throw rotten fruit at them?

[SpinMill75]

Wow.....are we grown ups here?

[HenryBall]

This is borderline comical.

[bfactor]

Wow, even frozen_rope's alias manages to chime in with some TGM hate. This thread has become a perfect compilation of swing discussion caricatures!

Also, to be fair to Suttie, he has evidently been working extensively with Trackman technology since that was published. Contact him and ask if he still agrees with the book if it so concerns you.

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='bfactor1282' timestamp='1281063127' post='2621794']
Wow, even frozen_rope's alias manages to chime in with some TGM hate. This thread has become a perfect compilation of swing discussion caricatures!

[b]Also, to be fair to Suttie, he has evidently been working extensively with Trackman technology[/b] since that was published. Contact him and ask if he still agrees with the book if it so concerns you.
[/quote]


First, even with a Trackman nowhere in sight, no half decent golf instructor would dare say a golf ball has topspin. Its simply absurd.

Second, Butch Harmon has a Trackman nearby everyday and still does not know how and why a ball flies the way it does.