Quite Possibly The Worst And Silliest Golf Instruction Ever

[kanzaclimber]

[DoctorLoomis]

Its funny that the people that criticize me for "bashing" and taking personal shots....are the very ones that are doing that to me right now. The problem is I am not bashing...I am simply showing, revealing, divulging, and proving error, incorrectness, and lack of knowledge and understanding. My claims are not false, baseless, nor wrong. If you guys feel the need to flame me even though I am 100% correct....then by all means proceed.

[zukszoo]

I would be more concerned with what he teaches today. If he is still teaching that a draw has topspin, then call him out on it. But do it to him personally first, in a private discussion. Doing this on the internet does make it look a bit like an attack. What does he currently teach? That is what I want to know first.

[DoctorLoomis]

Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....

[mtsmith]

TallVol, May I ask you what is keeping you from going out and TEACHING this. Prove these people wrong with your TEACHING. How do you expect to teach people the correct way to flight the golfball by telling others what certain teachers are teaching incorrectly. Hell, they are teaching it wrong, good, why tell your enemy what they are doing wrong. Go out and teach it, become the best teacher, write your own book.

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='zukszoo' timestamp='1281063549' post='2621809']
I would be more concerned with what he teaches today. If he is still teaching that a draw has topspin, then call him out on it. But do it to him personally first, in a private discussion. Doing this on the internet does make it look a bit like an attack. What does he currently teach? That is what I want to know first.
[/quote]


I dont care if he was teaching golf 50 years ago. To say that a LOFTED golf club...yes lofted....creates TOPSPIN is silly. Pure silliness. Period. Dont mean to be blunt....but his statement borders on pure stupidity.

[mtsmith]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063691' post='2621819']
Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....
[/quote]

I said and so did Kevin that we agree with what you are saying.

It is the manner of which you go about it that we disagree with.

[ttaylor0024]

[quote name='kanzaclimber' timestamp='1281063496' post='2621805']

[/quote]

After reading through the whole thread and laughing, this was by far the best post

[bfactor]

It's written that a "draw produces a tumbling, forward spin"... Tumbling to me evokes images of a ball bounding forward after landing. I don't read that statement in such an absolute way as to imply that the ball has topspin while in flight, just that he thinks it has less backspin and it will roll out more. You're holding him to unreasonable absolutes.

Of course, we know that a draw is not necessarily delofted nor does it have to have less spin, unless it's a pull-draw. That's where it would be interesting to hear from him on his current understanding of the face/path relationship.

[mtsmith]

This is who we want you to take on this topic with, not us.

Dr Jim Suttie

Toll-Free: 800-765-3838

Business Mailing address:
Suttie Golf Academies
PMB 202, Ste. 212
24600 S. Tamiami Trail
Bonita Springs, FL 34134

[DoctorLoomis]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281064025' post='2621830']
[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063691' post='2621819']
Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....
[/quote]

I said and so did Kevin that we agree with what you are saying.

It is the manner of which you go about it that we disagree with.
[/quote]


mtsmith....I agree that I am not soft in my actions. Never have been. I was raised to tell it like it is. I dont pull punches.....I call a spade a spade. People might not like me....but at least respect me for being absolutely brutally honest and forthright. With me you know what you are getting....everyday. In todays world thats not easy to come by.

[SooperLooper]

Okay, so I'm pretty new to this whole forum thing. If someone finds a thread antagonistic, boring, repetitive, worthless, etc. - - isn't the best thing just to ignore it?

Once you post in a thread you are contributing to it. Seems pretty simple to me: if you don't think a thread is of value just move along, no?

[KevCarter]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281064025' post='2621830']
[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063691' post='2621819']
Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....
[/quote]

I said and so did Kevin that we agree with what you are saying.

It is the manner of which you go about it that we disagree with.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Others have worked around the "old" laws for years, and have been very successful, see the record of Mr. Nicklaus, but knowing the truth of the "new" laws has been HUGE to my understanding of the game. Where did I learn the new laws? From Mike and Andy on the DVD's. I still think their description is by far the easiest to understand and share.

Thanks mtsmith.

Kevin

[elrey23]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281064239' post='2621841']
[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281064025' post='2621830']
[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063691' post='2621819']
Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....
[/quote]

I said and so did Kevin that we agree with what you are saying.

It is the manner of which you go about it that we disagree with.
[/quote]


mtsmith....I agree that I am not soft in my actions. Never have been. I was raised to tell it like it is. I dont pull punches.....I call a spade a spade. People might not like me....but at least respect me for being absolutely brutally honest and forthright. With me you know what you are getting....everyday. In todays world thats not easy to come by.
[/quote]

Why do you keep starting these inane threads? Who gives a hairy rat's butt what some teacher who was teacher of the year 10 years ago is saying? Go back in history and find EVERY instance where a teacher is stating these "laws" incorrectly and report back once you have ALL instances of this. Hopefully this will keep busy for awhile.

[logan91201]

[quote name='rcl' timestamp='1281064298' post='2621846']
Okay, so I'm pretty new to this whole forum thing. If someone finds a thread antagonistic, boring, repetitive, worthless, etc. - - isn't the best thing just to ignore it?

Once you post in a thread you are contributing to it. Seems pretty simple to me: if you don't think a thread is of value just move along, no?
[/quote]


Post of the year in my opinion!

[mtsmith]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281064239' post='2621841']
[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281064025' post='2621830']
[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063691' post='2621819']
Before my truthful and correct thread gets locked....I will say its quite sad that only one person had the fortitude to agree with me that the topspin comment was ridiculous and absurd. That in itself is sad. Oh well.....
[/quote]

I said and so did Kevin that we agree with what you are saying.

It is the manner of which you go about it that we disagree with.
[/quote]


mtsmith....I agree that I am not soft in my actions. Never have been. I was raised to tell it like it is. I dont pull punches.....I call a spade a spade. People might not like me....but at least respect me for being absolutely brutally honest and forthright. With me you know what you are getting....everyday. In todays world thats not easy to come by.
[/quote]

I do respect that and appreciate it. I am just a country boy that tends to speak my mind without thinking first, so I feel ya.
Unfortunately I just feel you are fighting a losing battle by preaching on a golf blog.
I respect what you are trying to do (help golfers golf), I just wish it was done differently, that's all.

Edit: I'm out for the night. Will be interesting to pick this thread up tomorrow.

[hoolio99]

It seems to me these high profile teachers don't give a toss about what they tell the general public in their books and DVDs and they don't seem to be updating their information in light of the new laws.

I recently found an old DVD I had by a high profile UK teacher and his tag line on shaping shots was [b]"The path sends it and the face bends it"[/b]. This DVD is still available on his website for 25 pounds!!!

[mtsmith]

[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281086474' post='2622147']
It seems to me these high profile teachers don't give a toss about what they tell the general public in their books and DVDs and they don't seem to be updating their information in light of the new laws.

I recently found an old DVD I had by a high profile UK teacher and his tag line on shaping shots was "The path sends it and the face bends it". [b]This DVD is still available on his website for 25 pounds!!!
[/b][/quote]

I'm sure you can still find books to buy that are teaching that there are 9 planets orbiting our sun but that doesn't mean that you have to buy it.

[KMeloney]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281063542' post='2621808']
The problem is I am not bashing...I am simply showing, revealing, divulging, and proving error, incorrectness, and lack of knowledge and understanding.
[/quote]

Here are a few of your statements regarding his "lack of knowledge":

silly and preposterous
awful
absolutely ridiculous
asonine preposterous
jackassery
foolish
stupidity and ignorance
simply absurd
pure stupidity

I can't imagine how anyone would think you're bashing the guy. You've merely stated the facts while keeping your opinions out of it.

[hoolio99]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281099040' post='2622269']
[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281086474' post='2622147']
It seems to me these high profile teachers don't give a toss about what they tell the general public in their books and DVDs and they don't seem to be updating their information in light of the new laws.

I recently found an old DVD I had by a high profile UK teacher and his tag line on shaping shots was "The path sends it and the face bends it". [b]This DVD is still available on his website for 25 pounds!!!
[/b][/quote]

I'm sure you can still find books to buy that are teaching that there are 9 planets orbiting our sun but that doesn't mean that you have to buy it.
[/quote]

That's true. But don't you think these people should be updating their material that is still for sale to the public? I guess they think we will not know any better.

[mtsmith]

[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281103556' post='2622396']
[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281099040' post='2622269']
[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281086474' post='2622147']
It seems to me these high profile teachers don't give a toss about what they tell the general public in their books and DVDs and they don't seem to be updating their information in light of the new laws.

I recently found an old DVD I had by a high profile UK teacher and his tag line on shaping shots was "The path sends it and the face bends it". [b]This DVD is still available on his website for 25 pounds!!!
[/b][/quote]

I'm sure you can still find books to buy that are teaching that there are 9 planets orbiting our sun but that doesn't mean that you have to buy it.
[/quote]

That's true. But don't you think these people should be updating their material that is still for sale to the public? I guess they think we will not know any better.
[/quote]

They probably have updated there material, or atleast some have in the ball flight case, but it costs alot of money to destroy every book, video, etc that is already out on the market that states the 'wrong laws.'
Maybe just put the incorrect items at a nice sale price, huh?

[RJC59]

I've spoken with Jim on numerous occassions and he has accumulated more knowledge about the game than likely any of us ever will, and I don't think you even read exactly what you posted? he said closed relative to PATH which is TRUE. Wow.

[hos]

Heheheheheeh!

[MacBooky]

[quote name='RJC59' timestamp='1281104222' post='2622426']
I've spoken with Jim on numerous occassions and he has accumulated more knowledge about the game than likely any of us ever will, and I don't think you even read exactly what you posted? he said closed relative to PATH which is TRUE. Wow.
[/quote]

Correct, but also states that the ball starts right because of the path ...... wow

[hoolio99]

[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281103960' post='2622417']
[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281103556' post='2622396']
[quote name='mtsmith' timestamp='1281099040' post='2622269']
[quote name='hoolio99' timestamp='1281086474' post='2622147']
It seems to me these high profile teachers don't give a toss about what they tell the general public in their books and DVDs and they don't seem to be updating their information in light of the new laws.

I recently found an old DVD I had by a high profile UK teacher and his tag line on shaping shots was "The path sends it and the face bends it". [b]This DVD is still available on his website for 25 pounds!!!
[/b][/quote]

I'm sure you can still find books to buy that are teaching that there are 9 planets orbiting our sun but that doesn't mean that you have to buy it.
[/quote]

That's true. But don't you think these people should be updating their material that is still for sale to the public? I guess they think we will not know any better.
[/quote]

They probably have updated there material, or atleast some have in the ball flight case, but it costs alot of money to destroy every book, video, etc that is already out on the market that states the 'wrong laws.'
Maybe just put the incorrect items at a nice sale price, huh?
[/quote]

Yip, just keep peddling the old stuff to the golfing masses. Not sure I would take it for nothing, given that it is incorrect. I guess that's just me.

[JD3]

[quote name='TallVolFan' timestamp='1281052941' post='2621384']
Mods....please do not lock this thread nor move it into another topic. I ask this because people need to see this. They need to know the truth and what is not the truth in order to get better. I am not posting this to personally bash the instructor...and I will not mention his name. However, this instructor was the 2000 NATIONAL PGA Teacher of the Year and is ranked in Golf Digest's top 20 as we speak. This instruction is inaccurate, silly, and flat out wrong. I hope at least one person can improve from seeing it.

In the first photo he says, "because of the inside out swing path the ball starts out to the right of the target." That is absolutely patently wrong. Then he says one of the silliest things I have ever read or heard from a so-called world class instructor. He says, "a draw produces a TUMBLING FORWARD SPIN, SIMILAR TO TOPSPIN IN TENNIS!!!" Good lord! Then he says, "a draw hits the geen with the same FORWARD SPIN." Unreal.

In the second photo he says, "because of the left swing path the ball starts out left of the target." Once again that is patently wrong.

In the third photo he says, "the ball's initial direction is determined by the clubface path through impact." Wow.....wow.

As I said above, I am not here to bash this man. He is helpless...he knows not what he speaks of. I am here to maybe expose what is wrong and incorrect with mainstream golf instruction....and help someone improve.
[/quote]
Good grief that's nasty ... that "Doc" is obviously a quack. TVF, sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I urge you to keep posting your discoveries. It's not right that people are wasting their time and money being taught this junk.