What Was Ben Hogan's Swing Speed?

[jeffblais09]

heres what i did at school on the simulator

Mcgregor Tourney Driver not sure on the loft, D-7 swing weight 43.5in X flex steel.

Nike One Tour- spinniest ball i could find

119 SS

carry = 281 yds

carry+ roll = 289yds i was actually suprised it didnt roll more

my average numbers with my driver are

127mph SS

carry= 323

carry+roll= 334

hope that gives somewhat of an idea

edit- i slowed my swing down a little with the Macgregor because of how small it is, but seemed like i was hitting more spinners with it, which i found odd. felt nice though.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297271920' post='2962987']
heres what i did at school on the simulator

Mcgregor Tourney Driver not sure on the loft, D-7 swing weight 43.5in X flex steel.

Nike One Tour- spinniest ball i could find

119 SS

carry = 281 yds

carry+ roll = 289yds i was actually suprised it didnt roll more

my average numbers with my driver are

127mph SS

carry= 323

carry+roll= 334

hope that gives somewhat of an idea


[/quote]

Very nice! I'd like to know about spin, angle of attack, smash factor, height, and what the ball flight was. Try to find a more spinny ball if you can!

[jeffblais09]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1297272166' post='2962995']
[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297271920' post='2962987']
heres what i did at school on the simulator

Mcgregor Tourney Driver not sure on the loft, D-7 swing weight 43.5in X flex steel.

Nike One Tour- spinniest ball i could find

119 SS

carry = 281 yds

carry+ roll = 289yds i was actually suprised it didnt roll more

my average numbers with my driver are

127mph SS

carry= 323

carry+roll= 334

hope that gives somewhat of an idea


[/quote]

Very nice! I'd like to know about spin, angle of attack, smash factor, height, and what the ball flight was. Try to find a more spinny ball if you can!
[/quote]

the simulator here at the Golf Academy is spot on distance wise. I'll try and get on our trackman here in the next few days. I actually am in my computer class right now, im cruisin the forums and thought id do this experiment real quick for you guys that were interested. Ill see what i can do

[TCMP]

[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297272336' post='2963012']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1297272166' post='2962995']
[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297271920' post='2962987']
heres what i did at school on the simulator

Mcgregor Tourney Driver not sure on the loft, D-7 swing weight 43.5in X flex steel.

Nike One Tour- spinniest ball i could find

119 SS

carry = 281 yds

carry+ roll = 289yds i was actually suprised it didnt roll more

my average numbers with my driver are

127mph SS

carry= 323

carry+roll= 334

hope that gives somewhat of an idea


[/quote]

Very nice! I'd like to know about spin, angle of attack, smash factor, height, and what the ball flight was. Try to find a more spinny ball if you can!
[/quote]

the simulator here at the Golf Academy is spot on distance wise. I'll try and get on our trackman here in the next few days. I actually am in my computer class right now, im cruisin the forums and thought id do this experiment real quick for you guys that were interested. Ill see what i can do
[/quote]

I bet you hit driver mid iron into the green on hole #5 don't you? I am very jealous of that swing speed.

[drewspin]

Jeff - PM me your address, I will send you a couple wound balatas to test on the sim.

[jeffblais09]

[quote name='TCMP' timestamp='1297470084' post='2969503']
[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297272336' post='2963012']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1297272166' post='2962995']
[quote name='jeffblais09' timestamp='1297271920' post='2962987']
heres what i did at school on the simulator

Mcgregor Tourney Driver not sure on the loft, D-7 swing weight 43.5in X flex steel.

Nike One Tour- spinniest ball i could find

119 SS

carry = 281 yds

carry+ roll = 289yds i was actually suprised it didnt roll more

my average numbers with my driver are

127mph SS

carry= 323

carry+roll= 334

hope that gives somewhat of an idea


[/quote]

Very nice! I'd like to know about spin, angle of attack, smash factor, height, and what the ball flight was. Try to find a more spinny ball if you can!
[/quote]

the simulator here at the Golf Academy is spot on distance wise. I'll try and get on our trackman here in the next few days. I actually am in my computer class right now, im cruisin the forums and thought id do this experiment real quick for you guys that were interested. Ill see what i can do
[/quote]

I bet you hit driver mid iron into the green on hole #5 don't you? I am very jealous of that swing speed.
[/quote]


you mean #5 at Trilogy haha, im usually driver, 3 or 4 iron into that green from the tournament tees its like 608yds it always depends on wind though ive hit a 5 iron and hit the green, but ive also hit driver, 3 wood and came up 30 yards short. it all depends on the wind lol

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1297473297' post='2969643']
Jeff - PM me your address, I will send you a couple wound balatas to test on the sim.
[/quote]


will do

[jak_bot]

Hogan's SS was fast enough to drive the 292 yard par 4 17th pin high at Oakmont during the final round of the US Open in 1953.

[drewspin]

Whatever the speed, Hogan's SMASH FACTOR was off the charts.

[bunkerputt]

Ben Hogan woke up every day, ate a pound of bacon, and chopped down a tree with his bare hands. That very tree he would whittle into a golf club that he would then swing at phenomenal speeds. One can only imagine how shots from his 5'7" frame dwarfed the measly 6'4" Dustin Johnson, or the paltry 6'1" Gary Woodland, who incidentally has an estimated high ball speed over 200mph. No, these guys can only hope and dream that someday their pure and unrivaled athleticism with their entire body can even come close to one little trick Ben Hogan used with one tiny part of his body to knock a fly off a coke bottle at 350 yards every day of the year. Come on guys.

[tembolo1284]

haha, nice post.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='drewspin' timestamp='1297473297' post='2969643']
Jeff - PM me your address, I will send you a couple wound balatas to test on the sim.
[/quote]


you ever send him the balatas?

that will take off some distance. OUCH.

[Random Hack]

[quote name='bunkerputt' timestamp='1304949634' post='3218622']
Ben Hogan woke up every day, ate a pound of bacon, and chopped down a tree with his bare hands. That very tree he would whittle into a golf club that he would then swing at phenomenal speeds. One can only imagine how shots from his 5'7" frame dwarfed the measly 6'4" Dustin Johnson, or the paltry 6'1" Gary Woodland, who incidentally has an estimated high ball speed over 200mph. No, these guys can only hope and dream that someday their pure and unrivaled athleticism with their entire body can even come close to one little trick Ben Hogan used with one tiny part of his body to knock a fly off a coke bottle at 350 yards every day of the year. Come on guys.
[/quote]

+1,000,000

Anyone who thinks 5'7 and 140 pound Ben Hogan would swing 120+ and be top five in driving distance today needs to send me some of what they're smoking.

Pulling a number out of my educated but guessing arse, I'd put his SS (with modern equipment) somewhere in the 110ish range, which means he was right around 100 with the older equipment.

Jack Nicklaus was longer than anyone when he came out, and his average driver (from Golf My Way) was 250, although he said he could get it out there to 260 "without tearing any muscles"...............so now Hogan is 30 yards longer than Nicklaus?

[callawayfan]

[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1304968641' post='3219428']
[quote name='bunkerputt' timestamp='1304949634' post='3218622']
Ben Hogan woke up every day, ate a pound of bacon, and chopped down a tree with his bare hands. That very tree he would whittle into a golf club that he would then swing at phenomenal speeds. One can only imagine how shots from his 5'7" frame dwarfed the measly 6'4" Dustin Johnson, or the paltry 6'1" Gary Woodland, who incidentally has an estimated high ball speed over 200mph. No, these guys can only hope and dream that someday their pure and unrivaled athleticism with their entire body can even come close to one little trick Ben Hogan used with one tiny part of his body to knock a fly off a coke bottle at 350 yards every day of the year. Come on guys.
[/quote]

+1,000,000

Anyone who thinks 5'7 and 140 pound Ben Hogan would swing 120+ and be top five in driving distance today needs to send me some of what they're smoking.

Pulling a number out of my educated but guessing arse, I'd put his SS (with modern equipment) somewhere in the 110ish range, which means he was right around 100 with the older equipment.

Jack Nicklaus was longer than anyone when he came out, and his average driver (from Golf My Way) was 250, although he said he could get it out there to 260 "without tearing any muscles"...............so now Hogan is 30 yards longer than Nicklaus?
[/quote]

Im only 5'8 and 170 with a SS of 119.. and by no means am i one of the best players of all time. So why is it so hard to believe that Hogan.. who is more than likely the best ball striker ever might have been swinging in the 120s?

[ben w]

what would happen if you hit an "old" driver with a "new" ball?

just curious, I have some very nice Macgregor woods from the 60s back at home, and could easily do a comparison.

[txcountrylawyer]

If you have read even a few of the books about the Man, you will find out he was of the longest drivers on the tour before his accident and retained the ability even late in his career to move the ball long when he wanted to hit it big. In one of the books, the story is told about Hogan, Palmer and Archer playing together at the Masters. It was stated Hogan was getting annoyed with the loud noise being made by Palmer's fans after he hit his drives. On one of the back nine holes, I think it was 15 a huge roar went up after Palmer hit a screaming drive. Hogan was hitting next and decided to step on it hard and boomed it off the tee. As the story goes, the far tee ball was 35 to 40 yards beyond the second longest ball. Palmer and his caddy start striding up the fairway with Hogan and his caddy following behind. Palmer strides by the second longest ball without looking at it as does Hogan. Palmer reaches the far ball and without looking at it starts looking at the approach shot . When his caddy reaches the ball he looks at it, Hogan and his caddy are a little off to the side when Palmer's caddy tells Palmer the far ball is not his and Palmer abruptly turns around and has to pass Hogan who has a small smile while he is smoking and Arnie stomps past Hogan mad as hell.

[callawayfan]

[quote name='txcountrylawyer' timestamp='1305340508' post='3232366']
If you have read even a few of the books about the Man, you will find out he was of the longest drivers on the tour before his accident and retained the ability even late in his career to move the ball long when he wanted to hit it big. In one of the books, the story is told about Hogan, Palmer and Archer playing together at the Masters. It was stated Hogan was getting annoyed with the loud noise being made by Palmer's fans after he hit his drives. On one of the back nine holes, I think it was 15 a huge roar went up after Palmer hit a screaming drive. Hogan was hitting next and decided to step on it hard and boomed it off the tee. As the story goes, the far tee ball was 35 to 40 yards beyond the second longest ball. Palmer and his caddy start striding up the fairway with Hogan and his caddy following behind. Palmer strides by the second longest ball without looking at it as does Hogan. Palmer reaches the far ball and without looking at it starts looking at the approach shot . When his caddy reaches the ball he looks at it, Hogan and his caddy are a little off to the side when Palmer's caddy tells Palmer the far ball is not his and Palmer abruptly turns around and has to pass Hogan who has a small smile while he is smoking and Arnie stomps past Hogan mad as hell.
[/quote]


+1000000

This is what i was trying to get at in my earlier post.

['53 Precision]

In watching the Shell match between Snead and Hogan, played in 1963 and aired in 1964, I noticed that both of them were hitting their drivers 250 - 265 yards off the tee on a wet golf course (at least if the yardages being given by the announcer were correct.) Hogan also hit a 3 wood, off the deck, 255 yds! They were both in their early '50's at this time. Why do some of you have such a hard time believing that Hogan was long? If a current pro, Ricky Fowler 5'9" 150lbs (about the same size as Hogan,) can average 295.8 yds, nearly 10 yds further than the tour average, why couldn't Hogan have been long too? I have never read where anyone that played with Hogan, or saw him play, say he was short or of average length from the box. Those that comment note that he was as long as anyone, when he wanted or needed to be. Kris Tschetter speaks of his length, in his 60's, when she would practice with him and the one 9 hole round she played with him, where he out drove 3 Div 1 Female golfers, teeing off from the ladies tees, while he was driving from the tips because, in his opinion, a male professional should play from the tips, always, at 60+ years old.

[Random Hack]

Jack Nicklaus' "Golf My Way", he listed his distances with all his clubs - we can all agree that Jack was as long as anyone when he was in his prime, correct? So theoretically Jack's longest distances would be at least as long as Hogan's were 20 yards earlier, correct?

If we can all agree to those two assumptions, then here's what I have to offer:

"From Golf My Way p. 31

Driver: 250 yards and up

3-wood: 235 yards and up

1-iron: 215-235 yards

2-iron: 205-220 yards

3-iron: 195-210 yards

4-iron:185-200 yards

5-iron: 170-185 yards

6- iron: 155-170 yards

7-iron: 140-155 yards

8-iron:130-145 yards

9-iron:105-135 yards

Pitching wedge: 80-130 yards

Sand wedge: Up to 100 yards"

Now, this doesn't mean a whole lot because 250+ could mean up to 300 yards, but Jack also said:

[b]"I remember him saying that he didn't believe that at sea level with no wind, anyone could [i]fly[/i] a ball more than 260 yards through the air"

So if you guys wanna figure out what kind of SS numbers would produce a 260 carry with 1974 equipment, you can see what the max SS was 20 years after Hogan's heyday (guessing about 113ish, which would've been the longest driver in professional golf at that time), and probably take 95% of that SS to figure out what Hogan's max SS could have been - something in the 107/108 neighborhood sounds about right.


[/b]

[txcountrylawyer]

I will give you one more story from about 18 years ago. A hall of fame golf was in our office to discuss some planning options he had. We took a ball room breaker after a couple of hours. On the weigh down the hall, I asked him if I could ask him a question regarding my hooking issue. His face lit up and said fire. I explained what I thought the problem was and waited for an answer. In a flash, told me to fet my back parrell to hall wall--he stood directly opposite facing me--got me in a good address position--grabbed my left wrist pushed my arm into a backswing and hadstopped me half way back and told me to move wight forward over left foot and once I was sliding in position without loosening his grip on my left wrist swung my hand and wrist through impact position keeping the first wrist firm and making it pronate while the left arm was rotating. Once through impact-pushed me through drill four more times. He said that is how Hogan hits the hell out of it and does not hook it.


I could not resist and said I had heard was exceptionally strong in his fingers, hands, wrists and forearms. He laughed and said you got that right--I have seen him with his bare hands grabs the hosel of a club and hold the head tight with the other hand to bend club to adjust lie. And this came from a man whose grip on my wrist made my wrist feel like it was sqeezed tight in a vise.

[1982apex]

[quote name=''53 Precision' timestamp='1305345867' post='3232581']
In watching the Shell match between Snead and Hogan, played in 1963 and aired in 1964, I noticed that both of them were hitting their drivers 250 - 265 yards off the tee on a wet golf course (at least if the yardages being given by the announcer were correct.) Hogan also hit a 3 wood, off the deck, 255 yds! They were both in their early '50's at this time. Why do some of you have such a hard time believing that Hogan was long? If a current pro, Ricky Fowler 5'9" 150lbs (about the same size as Hogan,) can average 295.8 yds, nearly 10 yds further than the tour average, why couldn't Hogan have been long too? I have never read where anyone that played with Hogan, or saw him play, say he was short or of average length from the box. Those that comment note that he was as long as anyone, when he wanted or needed to be. Kris Tschetter speaks of his length, in his 60's, when she would practice with him and the one 9 hole round she played with him, where he out drove 3 Div 1 Female golfers, teeing off from the ladies tees, while he was driving from the tips because, in his opinion, a male professional should play from the tips, always, at 60+ years old.
[/quote]

I think the problem is nowdays people are either long or they are accurate.Hogan was both. By the way I have a set of 53 precisions with the rocket shafts...they still play great!

[mcctee]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1295879129' post='2920421']
Does anyone remember if he had the face of his driver cranked open? I know it was majorly anti-hook..but don't remember if he just got it built toe heavy, very flat lie, or if it was also very open.

Whatever his ss was...he def had a violent snap at the ball. Good stuff.
[/quote]

I had the pleasure and opportunity to hold and take a couple of swings with one of Mr. Hogan's drivers. It was definitely cranked open a couple of degrees. I held one at the USGA Golf House in the Ben Hogan Exhibit back in 2005 when we were filming the 'Legacy' documentary for 'The Ben Hogan Collection' and again at Shady Oaks in 2008 in an outing prior to the Ben Hogan Invitational Tournament. Hit two shots off the tee. One a bit thin and the second fairly well with a little fade on it. The club was obviously still under control of Mr. Hogan as I don't hit them that well!

[Bella Woods]

mcctee;

Interesting - do you recall the make of the club and shaft?

In terms of the thread, I would think very few people walking the earth
in the "old days" could swing fast enough to carry 280 yards (with the
old ball and heavier clubs).

I was a relatively long hitter in my younger days during the persimmon
wood/balata ball era. A 285 yard drive total (not carry) was a long poke,
a 300 yard drive happened only a few times a year with 255 to 265 yards
being the norm.

The only time I had my swing speed tested back then it was 103. The
shaft and balls of the modern equipment make more of a difference
than anything in my opinion.

[dlygrisse]

Hogan was only 5'7" and very lean, BUT he was also very strong. Look at his hands and forearms, look at his glutes, they guy had pure power, strength and athletic ability. The problem with everyone trying to copy Hogan is that they don't have Hogan's ability, he was a great athlete and could generate tremendous power. His first book was called Power golf for a reason, his secret was designed to control that power, most people need to learn how to gain power not control it.

Just like Nicklaus in Golf My Way Hogan gave his yardages for each club, he lists his driver distance as:

235 minimum
265 regular
300 maximum

I believe his driver length was 42 1/2" or maybe 43"

BTW when talking driver distances are we talking carry or carry and roll, I am pretty sure Nicklaus's stated distances are all carry.

If you are comparing Hogan to a modern player my guess is he would probably not be Bubba Watson long but probably at least as long as a McIlroy or Adam Scott, certainly not an average length hitter.

[Jack Pearsall]

I think Hogan would kick a** no matter when he played.
The guy was a fracking groove machine...amazing.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Jack Pearsall' timestamp='1308930935' post='3332599']
I think Hogan would kick a** no matter when he played.
The guy was a fracking groove machine...amazing.
[/quote]


you enterin' the daaaaaaaaaaaaaangah zooooooooone.

[FLOGMR]

On a Golf Channel show a while back they talked about how someone had used old film of Bobby Jones and using frames per second etc they worked out that his driver swing speed was about 118 mph........with hickory shafts...I am sure Hogan would have been that or better.....

[LYG]

On Hogan's clubs...a couple of the assistant pro's at Shady Oaks were messing around with his driver in the pro shop...swinging it and the shaft snapped.

How would you like to tell a 65+ year old Mr. Hogan, "Sir, I am sorry, I broke the driver you game."

Ouch.

[Big Swamp]

as to Hogan not being able to have a high SS b/c he was 5'8" or so.... that's just silly. Look at the man. Look at his swings. Read his history.

"the secret is in the dirt".

[timliddy]

The golf ball is also a big factor. Old balls were very inconsistent.

[CarloGolfer]

[quote name='txcountrylawyer' timestamp='1305424777' post='3234533']
I could not resist and said I had heard was exceptionally strong in his fingers, hands, wrists and forearms. He laughed and said you got that right--I have seen him with his bare hands grabs the hosel of a club and hold the head tight with the other hand to bend club to adjust lie. And this came from a man whose grip on my wrist made my wrist feel like it was sqeezed tight in a vise.
[/quote]

Ben Hogan was obviously a great golfer with a great swing, but thhe man could not bend steel with his bare hands. That's one of the more ridiculous posts I've seen about Hogan in a long time.