What Was Ben Hogan's Swing Speed?

[Ranger Rick]

Well you could do it via video analysis if you could work the distances correctly and broke it down frame by frame.

I'm gonna try another way.

There is a page on Maltby's website which goes into it and basically with todays modern drivers have a 9% increase in COR. So in terms of yardage gained for a 300 yard drive you are looking at roughly 1,09*300 which equates to about a 320 yard drive today. To hit it that far you need at least a 120mph swing with good launch conditions. Hogan played a shorter, heavier driver however so his swing at the time was probably around 115mph when he was going for it. With todays equipment he would be right near the top of the charts. I would imagine he should be capable of a 120ish mph swing with a 45" driver.

You could do more complicated maths if you know how to convert the for. into the smash factor and then manage to figure out the speed needed for the ball speed required for each smash factor then add on the 2/3 mph you get per extra" onto your calculated swing speed and well, I don't have the time.

[Pit_Man]

If he could hit it 300 with that equipment...then with the 758 taylormade drivers released since, each one providing 10+ yards of additional distance from the previous model...plus the new balls...
Makes ya think.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Wow, even without being an expert on the topic there are some glaring errors in this thread. Jack didn't drive 250 when he came out on tour unless he was placing the ball. Jack was a frequent long driver winner and probably swung well into the 130s when he tried to, not that he would very often on tour. He is being modest in those books. He did just put the ball in play a lot, but he easilly hit drives well over 250 throughout his career.

Hogan was obviously a power player, I don't care how short or light he was. Maybe he wouldn't drive 320 all day long on tour like some of the long players, but he wouldn't be one of the nameless drivers at the back of the pack either, I think it's pretty obvious he was long in his day and would be today as well. I'm guessing he'd be above the tour average with an uncanny ability to uncork one when he needed to.

[tembolo1284]

I'd have been most curious to see how he played with the longer and gooey shafts of today and how well he'd be able to keep it under control.

[Rusty Spokes]

[quote name='p.vandeloo' timestamp='1295886368' post='2920692']
I've seen guys hit persimmon 300 yds,
I think Hogan could do that too if he wanted to. But he was so much about accuracy that he never went at it a 100%.
I also think that hogan swung relatively heavy clubs (even for his era). This would obviously reduce swingspeed somewhat. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2HK9dTxSPs[/media]
[/quote]

No doubt Hogan and Snead were long hitters. Interesting in this video both H and S hit drivers, 450 yard par 4 with a dog-leg right into the green..H took a good swipe at the ball.

H hits a 4 wood for his second shot. S hits a 2 iron. In that the second shot requires a fade (which S may not have gotten, the commentator said he pushed it) the second shot must of been about 200 yards..maybe a little less allowing for the fade.

Assuming the hole was not elevated..it looked pretty flat,and the drives were for pure placement in the fairway (commentator said is was a narrow fairway) it looks like both H and S hit a 250 yard drive.

I don't think both H and S would have hit a 4 wood or 2 iron from 170/180 yards or less.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1352211419' post='5898303']
[quote name='p.vandeloo' timestamp='1295886368' post='2920692']
I've seen guys hit persimmon 300 yds,
I think Hogan could do that too if he wanted to. But he was so much about accuracy that he never went at it a 100%.
I also think that hogan swung relatively heavy clubs (even for his era). This would obviously reduce swingspeed somewhat. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2HK9dTxSPs[/media]
[/quote]

No doubt Hogan and Snead were long hitters. Interesting in this video both H and S hit drivers, 450 yard par 4 with a dog-leg right into the green..H took a good swipe at the ball.

H hits a 4 wood for his second shot. S hits a 2 iron. In that the second shot requires a fade (which S may not have gotten, the commentator said he pushed it) the second shot must of been about 200 yards..maybe a little less allowing for the fade.

Assuming the hole was not elevated..it looked pretty flat,and the drives were for pure placement in the fairway (commentator said is was a narrow fairway) it looks like both H and S hit a 250 yard drive.

I don't think both H and S would have hit a 4 wood or 2 iron from 170/180 yards or less.
[/quote]

ya...it seems like a real bomb was 270+ or so.

I remember in an older shell's wonderful world of golf demeret and snead play and a lot of demeret's drives were in the 230-240 range. He was a bit older but still. That's short! And they were playing at a pretty high altitude as well.

[Rusty Spokes]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1352212832' post='5898415']


ya...it seems like a real bomb was 270+ or so.

I remember in an older shell's wonderful world of golf demeret and snead play and a lot of demeret's drives were in the 230-240 range. He was a bit older but still. That's short! And they were playing at a pretty high altitude as well.
[/quote]

A good read is "[b]Search for the Perfect Swing[/b]" by Alastair Cochran and John Stobbs, originally published by the Golf Society of Britain in 1968.

Interesting study of all matters with golf, including the effects of the "American ball vs the British ball" in a very scientific manner.

They did a study of the 1964 Dunlop Masters at Royal Birkdale, played with the American size ball. Invitational 40 players, mostly professional British and a few "overseas golfers"..no Hogan.

The longest hitter, distance driver average finishing in the fairway was Roberto de Vicenzo at 291 yards.
The shortest hitter, distance driver average was Bradshaw at 219 yards.
Peter Alliss (tv commentator) averaged 265 yards and was #8 in the field for distance off the tee.

It was also observed the a helping breeze of 12mph added about 20 yards to the professional's drives. A breeze of 15mph blowing into the golfer's drives averaged less 29 yards.

As an average for all 40 professionals hitting the American ball, driver distance was 250 yards. 4 wood and 2 iron average 208 yards. 5 iron was 172 yards. 9 iron was 124 yards.

The study included 5000 observed strokes witnessed and recorded. No computers or "Shotlink" back then.

[Rusty Spokes]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LHmMMjmRU&feature=related

[size=4]The opening hole on Shells WWoG was a par 4. Could not find the total length for the hole.

Hogan hit his drive 255 yards according to the announcer on the first hole. His approach shot was hit with a 6 iron.

If Hogan's average drive that day was 250 yards (carry and no roll) using some math...[color=#333333]Divide the average yardage by 2.3. This number represents your average club head speed in miles per hour, according to the book "Science and Golf III." [/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#333333]Rough guess..Hogan's club head speed was 108mph, that day based on the formula and on the drives on 1st hole and 13th hole, [/color][/size]

[tembolo1284]

this is fun stuff.

['53 Precision]

[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1352225968' post='5899415']
www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LHmMMjmRU&feature=related

[size=4]The opening hole on Shells WWoG was a par 4. Could not find the total length for the hole.

Hogan hit his drive 255 yards according to the announcer on the first hole. His approach shot was hit with a 6 iron.

If Hogan's average drive that day was 250 yards (carry and no roll) using some math...[color=#333333]Divide the average yardage by 2.3. This number represents your average club head speed in miles per hour, according to the book "Science and Golf III." [/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#333333]Rough guess..Hogan's club head speed was 108mph, that day based on the formula and on the drives on 1st hole and 13th hole, [/color][/size]
[/quote]

And, he was close to 52 years old, so he was well past what is considered "prime age" for a professional golfer.

[rtv]

I rewatched that match from DVD yesterday and average 250 yard carry seems about right. Snead was maybe 5 yards longer. They got some decent roll on their drives despite it having rained heavily during the two days of filming. It's a great match and the DVD is cheap on amazon, everyone should get copy.

Here's the 14th hole I uploaded a while back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8glUmA-NX0

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1352225968' post='5899415']
www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LHmMMjmRU&feature=related

[size=4]The opening hole on Shells WWoG was a par 4. Could not find the total length for the hole.

Hogan hit his drive 255 yards according to the announcer on the first hole. His approach shot was hit with a 6 iron.

If Hogan's average drive that day was 250 yards (carry and no roll) using some math...[color=#333333]Divide the average yardage by 2.3. This number represents your average club head speed in miles per hour, according to the book "Science and Golf III." [/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#333333]Rough guess..Hogan's club head speed was 108mph, that day based on the formula and on the drives on 1st hole and 13th hole, [/color][/size]
[/quote]

Sounds about right. Hogan had tons of PA3 when he hit the ball. Minimum hand movement and maximum club head movement.

Not a recipe for lots of clubhead speed. Leverage, accuracy? Yep, a recipe for tons of that lol.

[Buzzkill]

[b] What Was Ben Hogan's Swing Speed?[/b]


Not enough to blog on this site!

[tembolo1284]

[quote name=''53 Precision' timestamp='1352462146' post='5911347']
[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1352225968' post='5899415']
www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LHmMMjmRU&feature=related

[size=4]The opening hole on Shells WWoG was a par 4. Could not find the total length for the hole.

Hogan hit his drive 255 yards according to the announcer on the first hole. His approach shot was hit with a 6 iron.

If Hogan's average drive that day was 250 yards (carry and no roll) using some math...[color=#333333]Divide the average yardage by 2.3. This number represents your average club head speed in miles per hour, according to the book "Science and Golf III." [/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#333333]Rough guess..Hogan's club head speed was 108mph, that day based on the formula and on the drives on 1st hole and 13th hole, [/color][/size]
[/quote]

And, he was close to 52 years old, so he was well past what is considered "prime age" for a professional golfer.
[/quote]

108 with a heavy 3 wood length shaft driver is pretty good at 52.

[crapula]

His drives averaged 250, but what about the balls they used? I'd have to imagine smash factor and spin were completely different then.

[tembolo1284]

Ya, I'd imagine you'd really have to pork it good and hit it on the screws to get 250 out of it with a 108 odd mph swing.

[Rusty Spokes]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwggq1yCdI[/media]

Roberto in 1969. Swing speed about 117mph using the formula. Old school but effective. He was reputed to be the long drive guy. Just had a hard time with scorecards.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf2o_NtA9ug[/media]

Hogan swing in 1969..the modern swing.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1353079676' post='5942929']
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwggq1yCdI[/media]

Roberto in 1969. Swing speed about 117mph using the formula. Old school but effective. He was reputed to be the long drive guy. Just had a hard time with scorecards.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf2o_NtA9ug[/media]

Hogan swing in 1969..the modern swing.
[/quote]

what a stupid I am! Great move though.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='Rusty Spokes' timestamp='1353079676' post='5942929']
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwggq1yCdI[/media]

Roberto in 1969. Swing speed about 117mph using the formula. Old school but effective. He was reputed to be the long drive guy. Just had a hard time with scorecards. Leg action, especially left knee is very similar to a young Jack Nicklaus



[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf2o_NtA9ug[/media]

Hogan swing in 1969..the modern swing.
[/quote]

[farmer]

Have you ever noticed how hard they hit putts? Looks like me on my carpet.

[tembolo1284]

wristy and definitely a hit to the stroke. That's how it was...what can you do.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

Note that Ben Hogan was never considered a good lag putter. Byron Nelson stated that he thought Hogan was mediocre at best from long distance. But he also stated that, in his prime, Hogan was a super putter inside 6 feet. Of course , my guess is that due to his genius with the irons, he probably didn't have many opportunities to putt from longer distance. Same thing with the rest of his short game. When you hit most of the green in regulation,, your chipping and putting don't get much of a workout. However, you don't shoot the scores he did without being pretty darn good short game.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1353687464' post='5969229']
Note that Ben Hogan was never considered a good lag putter. Byron Nelson stated that he thought Hogan was mediocre at best from long distance. But he also stated that, in his prime, Hogan was a super putter inside 6 feet. Of course , my guess is that due to his genius with the irons, he probably didn't have many opportunities to putt from longer distance. Same thing with the rest of his short game. When you hit most of the green in regulation,, your chipping and putting don't get much of a workout. However, you don't shoot the scores he did without being pretty darn good short game.
[/quote]

Ya I was going to say....as often as he won the dude must have made more than his share of putts.

I just refered to hogan as 'the dude' didn't I? hehe.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1353691107' post='5969377']


Ya I was going to say....as often as he won the dude must have made more than his share of putts.

I just refered to hogan as 'the dude' didn't I? hehe.
[/quote]

I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1354216116' post='5995875']


I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.
[/quote]

And Jimmy knew what he was talking about. Cool quote sir.

[guisician]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354217941' post='5996061']
[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1354216116' post='5995875']


I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.
[/quote]

And Jimmy knew what he was talking about. Cool quote sir.
[/quote]

Yep: although opposites in personality & temperament, Demaret was one of the few fellow tour players Hogan was close friends with.

[knockdstiff]

That one video above with the hilarious 'voodoo child' soundtrack has a great vid of hogan hitting an approach into the 13th at Augusta - you can track the ball flight and everything. He's using a wood so I'm betting the approach is somewhere in the neighborhood of 230, putting the drive at about 250 (that hole was 480 yards until the recent changes). I have no idea what this implies for swing speed with whatever smash factor and stuff was back then, but it seems to ballpark the distance pretty well. Then again, maybe he went 3w/3w on that hole....

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1354245356' post='5998269']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354217941' post='5996061']
[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1354216116' post='5995875']
I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.
[/quote]

And Jimmy knew what he was talking about. Cool quote sir.
[/quote]

Yep: although opposites in personality & temperament, Demaret was one of the few fellow tour players Hogan was close friends with.
[/quote]

Demaret, Ken Venturi...who else? Guy had very few friends.

[teevons]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354570854' post='6013475']
[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1354245356' post='5998269']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354217941' post='5996061']
[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1354216116' post='5995875']
I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.
[/quote]

And Jimmy knew what he was talking about. Cool quote sir.
[/quote]

Yep: although opposites in personality & temperament, Demaret was one of the few fellow tour players Hogan was close friends with.
[/quote]

Demaret, Ken Venturi...who else? Guy had very few friends.
[/quote]

Claude Harmon, Tommy Bolt, Jack Burke

[guisician]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1354575535' post='6013887']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354570854' post='6013475']
[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1354245356' post='5998269']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1354217941' post='5996061']
[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1354216116' post='5995875']
I think it was Jimmy Demaret who said that you could not shoot in the 60's as often as Hogan did even if you hand- carried the ball to the center of every green instead of hitting approach shots.
[/quote]

And Jimmy knew what he was talking about. Cool quote sir.
[/quote]

Yep: although opposites in personality & temperament, Demaret was one of the few fellow tour players Hogan was close friends with.
[/quote]

Demaret, Ken Venturi...who else? Guy had very few friends.
[/quote]

Claude Harmon, Tommy Bolt, Jack Burke
[/quote]

tembolo & teevons,

Yes to all of the above; a couple fellow Texans in the bunch for sure.