Best Positioning of Spine: 9 or 12 o'clock?

[Stuy Pegleg]

My first foray into getting my shaft's spine aligned. So if at address, the 12 o'clock position is away from the body and the 9 o'clock position is down range, in the direction the struck ball travels, which one is best?

 

Naturally, I would think that the spine at 9 (or 3) o'clock would be best, but when I put the shaft on the vice, the oscillation seemed more flat when the spine was at the 12 o'clock position.

 

Much thanks.

[LBlack14]

FLO: Flat Line Oscillation

[prestiege]

technically the spine should go at 12, the reason you get better osilation that way is because the NBP is what should go to 9, i confused the 2 at first and im sure many do before they read into everything, normally the spine is roughly 90 degrees from the NBP which the NBP is what is found in a ball bearing based spine finder, they should change the name to NBP finder and it would address a lot of the confusion.

that stated, flat line osilation would technically be best posistion to set the shaft too.

[Stuy Pegleg]

Ok, that is making some more sense. I've been reading this and that on the internet and got confused with my haphazard reading.

 

I bought this pull with the mark on the masking tape supposed to be the "spine," according to the seller:

 

 

But my clubfitter found the mark to be the NBP, using the ball bearing tool. The clubfitter recommended the mark to be oriented at 9 o'clock, so the shaft is pretty much logo up.

 

The confusing thing is that the clubfitter didn't correct me when I said that the mark on the shaft is supposed to be the spine and he said that the spine was correctly marked. But he used the bearing tool, which actually finds the NBP.

 

So going back, from what I have read at other places, it seems that NBP at 9 is most followed (which is what the clubfitter recommended).

 

But I swear that when I flicked the tip of the shaft, the oscillations appeared to be more flat with the mark at 12...

 

A detailed discussion:

http://www.clubmaker-online.com/spines.html

 

This guy seems to refer to the NBP as the "spline":

[LBlack14]

What kind of clamp you using? How much tip weight?

[78blades]

I put the spine at the 12:00 o'clock position in all of my clubs.

[Stuy Pegleg]

[quote name='LBlack14' timestamp='1285207618' post='2709583']
What kind of clamp you using? How much tip weight?
[/quote]

Using a golfsmith clamp/vise dedicated for golf shafts, but no tip weight, so my attempt at flo may not be so accurate.

[steedboy]

I had the same problem and found all the info on Yyou Tube etc not very clear so ended up aligning the shaft to 9 oclock, oops.........using the bearing method. Started installing Miyazaki shafts now as they really are fantastic and been asured they dont need aligning so have installed them logo up and seem fine if not perfect, anyone comment on the Miyazaki's, heard different??

[stage1350]

Spine is the beginning. I actually locate the NBP in line with the face (9 o'clock for righties) as it seems to provide maximum stability. Then I tweak it a few degrees either way to achieve a FLO.

[RookieBlue7]

When spining, and the club is in the address position, 12:00 is the top of the shaft. You never want the spine there. You want the spine at 3:00, which is directly opposite the face or at 9:00, which is the spine being on the same side as the face. Putting it at 3:00(away from target), supposedly, is better for distance and putting it at 9:00(toward target) is supposedly for accuracy. I usually do spine my shafts to give me a starting point for FLO'ing though. I then put the NBP after FLO'ing at 9:00.

Here's a great article on both from Dave Tutelman: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines2.php?ref=

[78Staff]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1285243014' post='2710095']
Spine is the beginning. I actually locate the NBP in line with the face (9 o'clock for righties) as it seems to provide maximum stability. Then I tweak it a few degrees either way to achieve a FLO.
[/quote]

+1 this is the same procedure I use, although I need a better clamp for my flo'ing, it's a bit wobbly .

[victor10]

[quote name='Stuy Pegleg' timestamp='1285111969' post='2707698']
My first foray into getting my shaft's spine aligned. So if at address, the 12 o'clock position is away from the body and the 9 o'clock position is down range, in the direction the struck ball travels, which one is best?

Naturally, I would think that the spine at 9 (or 3) o'clock would be best, but when I put the shaft on the vice, the oscillation seemed more flat when the spine was at the 12 o'clock position.

Much thanks.
[/quote]

I do iron shafts at 9:00 and graphite at 12:00

[Golf Pig]

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1285249073' post='2710225']
When spining, and the club is in the address position, 12:00 is the top of the shaft. You never want the spine there. You want the spine at 3:00, which is directly opposite the face or at 9:00, which is the spine being on the same side as the face. Putting it at 3:00(away from target), supposedly, is better for distance and putting it at 9:00(toward target) is supposedly for accuracy. I usually do spine my shafts to give me a starting point for FLO'ing though. I then put the NBP after FLO'ing at 9:00.

Here's a great article on both from Dave Tutelman: [url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines2.php?ref="]http://www.tutelman....pines2.php?ref=[/url]
[/quote]

After perusing Dave's articles again, I believe what you say above contradicts his research. While putting the spine at 12:00 or 3:00 is up for debate, Dave recommends putting it at 12:00 (heel-toe plane). According to Dave, your comment about putting the spine (or NBP) at 3:00 for distance and 9:00 for accuracy is false - the orientation does not matter. Also, you say that you put the NBP at 9:00 but you also say you put the spine in the same plane. That can't be true because the spine and NBP are 90 degrees apart.

Sorry - I'm not trying to be critical of your post. I just think this page of Dave's explains it best - [url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines.php"]http://www.tutelman....AboutSpines.php[/url]

[Boba]

My back hurts when my spine is at 9 o'clock

[williamo]

I bought my diamana driver shaft from a seller in Sweden. He said that he had spined it and said that I should put the logo at 9 o'clock.

Is this true or are all diamana shafts spined the same way (Diamana logo down) though it is an aftermarket shaft?

[78Staff]

[quote name='williamo' timestamp='1285269942' post='2710837']
I bought my diamana driver shaft from a seller in Sweden. He said that he had spined it and said that I should put the logo at 9 o'clock.

Is this true or are all diamana shafts spined the same way (Diamana logo down) though it is an aftermarket shaft?
[/quote]

Not sure about Diamana's, but most of the rombax's I checked wind up pretty close to logo at 3 o'clock, +/- 15* or so.

[RookieBlue7]

[quote name='Golf Pig' timestamp='1285269616' post='2710826']
[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1285249073' post='2710225']
When spining, and the club is in the address position, 12:00 is the top of the shaft. You never want the spine there. You want the spine at 3:00, which is directly opposite the face or at 9:00, which is the spine being on the same side as the face. Putting it at 3:00(away from target), supposedly, is better for distance and putting it at 9:00(toward target) is supposedly for accuracy. I usually do spine my shafts to give me a starting point for FLO'ing though. I then put the NBP after FLO'ing at 9:00.

Here's a great article on both from Dave Tutelman: [url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines2.php?ref="]http://www.tutelman....pines2.php?ref=[/url]
[/quote]

After perusing Dave's articles again, I believe what you say above contradicts his research. While putting the spine at 12:00 or 3:00 is up for debate, Dave recommends putting it at 12:00 (heel-toe plane). According to Dave, your comment about putting the spine (or NBP) at 3:00 for distance and 9:00 for accuracy is false - the orientation does not matter. Also, you say that you put the NBP at 9:00 but you also say you put the spine in the same plane. That can't be true because the spine and NBP are 90 degrees apart.

Sorry - I'm not trying to be critical of your post. I just think this page of Dave's explains it best - [url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines.php"]http://www.tutelman....AboutSpines.php[/url]
[/quote]


The spines and NBP usually end up 90 degrees apart when doing spine then FLO, or have on shafts I've done most of the time. If I'm just spining, I put the spine at 9:00. If I do spine then FLO, I put the NBP at 9:00. I've had success with both methods. I also screwed up one time and put the spine at 3:00. Hit it a few times before realizing it and then pulled and reinstalled. None of the orientations ever really made that much difference in terms of dispersion and distance for me. I do, however, always put either at 9:00, depending on which I decide to do or both. I've read several methodologies, none have seemed to indicate that orientation from 3:00 to 9:00 had much effect on dispersion or distance. I just try to put them consistently in the same place in a set, for me that's 9:00. It is whichever method I do, or both, as to which gets put where.

[prestiege]

[quote name='williamo' timestamp='1285269942' post='2710837']
I bought my diamana driver shaft from a seller in Sweden. He said that he had spined it and said that I should put the logo at 9 o'clock.

Is this true or are all diamana shafts spined the same way (Diamana logo down) though it is an aftermarket shaft?
[/quote]


i had an 83s spined and flo'd by joe kwok and the logo is more toward the 10, 1030 range

[Stuy Pegleg]

Well, for my Matrix ozik xcon, I was told that the shaft logo down is best, but that for their non-ozik line, that logo up is best. So the nbp per bb test would put the nbp at 3 o'clock for th logo to be down. Called them and left a voicemail and then 15 mins later they called me and left a voicemail- talk about customer service!

[LBlack14]

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1285249073' post='2710225']
When spining, and the club is in the address position, 12:00 is the top of the shaft. You never want the spine there. You want the spine at 3:00, which is directly opposite the face or at 9:00, which is the spine being on the same side as the face. Putting it at 3:00(away from target), supposedly, is better for distance and putting it at 9:00(toward target) is supposedly for accuracy. I usually do spine my shafts to give me a starting point for FLO'ing though. I then put the NBP after FLO'ing at 9:00.

Here's a great article on both from Dave Tutelman: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines2.php?ref=
[/quote]

I been building, talking, discussing, studying and reading about these OPINIONS for years and that is what it is an OPINION. With that said, spine @ 12 for most stable position during the swing.

[LBlack14]

[quote name='Stuy Pegleg' timestamp='1285229111' post='2709997']
[quote name='LBlack14' timestamp='1285207618' post='2709583']
What kind of clamp you using? How much tip weight?
[/quote]

Using a golfsmith clamp/vise dedicated for golf shafts, but no tip weight, so my attempt at flo may not be so accurate.
[/quote]

Which clamp? You would need weight whether it be a tip weight for FLOing or the head itself.

[puttng4birdy]

[quote name='Stuy Pegleg' timestamp='1285111969' post='2707698']
My first foray into getting my shaft's spine aligned. So if at address, the 12 o'clock position is away from the body and the 9 o'clock position is down range, in the direction the struck ball travels, which one is best?

Naturally, I would think that the spine at 9 (or 3) o'clock would be best, but when I put the shaft on the vice, the oscillation seemed more flat when the spine was at the 12 o'clock position.

Much thanks.
[/quote]

I could be mistaken but I think I recall a post from Joe Kwok when he says that the hard spine should go at 12 o'clock to minimize toe droop which can lead to inconsistent contact. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me or hopefully Joe chimes in.

[marrigo]

Related question. How precise does the of the alignment of the spine or flow point need to be to wherever you choose to install it. For example if you are installing it at 12 o'clock how many degrees off can you be before you defeat the purpose of spine aligning? 1 degree, 5?, 10?

[Libertygoat]

[quote name='puttng4birdy' timestamp='1285422582' post='2713369']
[quote name='Stuy Pegleg' timestamp='1285111969' post='2707698']
My first foray into getting my shaft's spine aligned. So if at address, the 12 o'clock position is away from the body and the 9 o'clock position is down range, in the direction the struck ball travels, which one is best?

Naturally, I would think that the spine at 9 (or 3) o'clock would be best, but when I put the shaft on the vice, the oscillation seemed more flat when the spine was at the 12 o'clock position.

Much thanks.
[/quote]

I could be mistaken but I think I recall a post from Joe Kwok when he says that the hard spine should go at 12 o'clock to minimize toe droop which can lead to inconsistent contact. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me or hopefully Joe chimes in.
[/quote]
My experience so far would validate that assumption.....at least so far......with the driver/3wood.

When I put the weak spot at 12......I get more distance......but lose control of the ball flight.

When I put the hard spot at 12......the ball flight is more consistent (believe the clubhead turns into the hard spot leading to a stable/somewhat set position when moving into the ball.)


my 2 pre 1982 pennies

(my irons however are set w/ the weak spot at 12......have not spent the time messing with those as it would be alot more work and my results so far do not really require any change)

[ttgolf]

Ask Taylor Made what the best spine is for the R9 driver...

[marrigo]

[quote name='marrigo' timestamp='1285423835' post='2713396']
Related question. How precise does the of the alignment of the spine or flow point need to be to wherever you choose to install it. For example if you are installing it at 12 o'clock how many degrees off can you be before you defeat the purpose of spine aligning? 1 degree, 5?, 10?
[/quote]

? No one has an opinion?

[huskyhacker]

this thread is great and really informative to someone like myself who is just getting in pureing.

however, there seem to be so many opinions on the subject, that now im extremely frustrated.

i have a pured shaft coming in in a couple days, and i need to know......where do I put the pured mark that they label ??? 9:00, 3:00, 12:00 ????

please help !!!!!!!!

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='marrigo' timestamp='1285508120' post='2714522']
[quote name='marrigo' timestamp='1285423835' post='2713396']
Related question. How precise does the of the alignment of the spine or flow point need to be to wherever you choose to install it. For example if you are installing it at 12 o'clock how many degrees off can you be before you defeat the purpose of spine aligning? 1 degree, 5?, 10?
[/quote]

? No one has an opinion?
[/quote]

There is no body of work demonstrating that spines matter at all with the much improved graphite shaft consistency of modern graphite shafts - Tutleman and others have some anecdotal evidence that it can matter.

But given that there are still arguments over 90 degree changes in orientation, establishing whether or not 1 degree accuracy vs. 5 degrees matters isn't going to happen (until more technical work is done).

dave

[JCAG]

[quote name='huskyhacker' timestamp='1285525044' post='2714837']
this thread is great and really informative to someone like myself who is just getting in pureing.

however, there seem to be so many opinions on the subject, that now im extremely frustrated.

i have a pured shaft coming in in a couple days, and i need to know......where do I put the pured mark that they label ??? 9:00, 3:00, 12:00 ????

please help !!!!!!!!
[/quote]

If it is SST PURED then there will be a label on the shaft (will end up under the gip) with an arrow running up and down. The arrow goes on the top of the shaft at address or pointing up and down at 12. Left handed it goes 180* opposite.

PS

I say SST PURE is the ultimate. A distant 2nd is FLO and way, way down the list are ball bearing devices.

[Gator5]

I'm kinda new to this so bear with me. If I put a shaft in my spine finder and mark the spot on top that it keeps coming back to.........

What have I found?

Where should it face when I install it?

I've read a lot of info on this topic but I have not found a clear answer. Thanks for everyone's input and patience.