Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[ANimz]

If you take a half inch off the tip and butt of the shaft, would the swing weight be the same?

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, ANimz said:

If you take a half inch off the tip and butt of the shaft, would the swing weight be the same?

 

Shorten the playing length 1" and make no other changes - then the swing weight will definitely not be be the same.  It will be 6 pts lighter.    When it comes to length changes, taking some length from the tip is exactly the same as taking it from the butt end as far as the effect on swing weight.

[6R35]

Can anyone chime in on how SW would change when going from a Tensei orange 65x to a 55x? Grip and length would be identical. 

[Valtiel]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:34 PM, 6R35 said:

Can anyone chime in on how SW would change when going from a Tensei orange 65x to a 55x? Grip and length would be identical. 

Likely extremely minimal, if any at all. The balance point across the counterbalanced Tensei Orange shafts really only seems to start differing with the heavier weights.

You'll obviously have the static weight decrease from dropping shaft weight, but measured swingweight won't likely change. 

[jackmfarrow]

Apologies if this has already been discussed. 
 

Would a modification be needed for measuring the swing weight of a putter meant to be gripped at least 3” below the butt of the club?

 

Specifically a putter that was lengthened 3”, 50g counterbalance weight added and Scotty Cameron dual balance grip applied. With 50g also added to the head, the swing weight as greater than E9. 
 

Before these modifications the putter measured D2 at 34”. 
 

I expected it to increase but was shocked it increased that much. 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, jackmfarrow said:

Apologies if this has already been discussed. 
 

Would a modification be needed for measuring the swing weight of a putter meant to be gripped at least 3” below the butt of the club?

 

Specifically a putter that was lengthened 3”, 50g counterbalance weight added and Scotty Cameron dual balance grip applied. With 50g also added to the head, the swing weight as greater than E9. 
 

Before these modifications the putter measured D2 at 34”. 
 

I expected it to increase but was shocked it increased that much. 

 

Before I answer - keep in mind that swing weight values are pretty meaningless for putters - especially when using that much counterbalance weight AND you're not even gripping at the end of the club.  So forget what it might do to the scale readings and just play what feels good to you.

 

But to answer the question on why the scale reads that high:

+3"  adds 18 sw pts

+50 gm in the head adds ~20+ sw pts

+50 gm counter balance weight - subtracts 10 sw pts.

 

you didn't mention what grip was on before so we don't know the difference in grip weight so there could be some small additional adjustment.

 

So with just those factors, that's still a net gain of ~28 sw pts  or a rough swing weight of G0

 

 

[JLo_73]

Looking for some opinions before I take the plunge on reshafting my irons/tweaking specs.  Some background

• Swing changes...Been working with a great instructor who has become a good friend.  Tend to get very steep and working on trying to shallow AoA. 
• Fitting specs...Through lessons/range work, I prefer longer lengths (thinking +1-1.5" in wedges), heavier shafts/SW and larger grips (Midsize with extra wraps) to slow my tempo and reduce tension.   I'm 6'4" with a 38.5 WTF
• Equipment...Fitted into combo Mizuno 225/223 set with project X LZ 5.5 shafts (+1/2") with Z Cord Mid earlier this year when i transitioned from Srixon 585 with Modus 125X.  I knew this was a big change but was having to work too hard with the shaft flex so I was up for the change.  After early honeymoon, I'm not sure the weight was the issue.  Didn't get along with the hollow 225 heads and after trying a longer length wedge on the range, I'm starting over with 223 8I-GW and then will figure out longer irons.

During playing lesson last week, I hit my instructors Srixon Z Forged, +3/4" with MMT 125 TX shafts/ Iomic Midsize with 4 wraps.  Surprisingly, I got along with them pretty well. He suggested looking at 125S.   Been using GolfWrx for 10+ years as a sound board, and it's launched me in many different rabbit holes 🙂

 

Potential plan...I'm thinking about reshafting my 223 with MMT 125S, starting at 36.75" in LW/SW, 37" in PW/GW, and then 3/8" increments from there.   Have recently trialed Tour Velvet Midsize/Iomic midsize (+3/4 wraps) which both feel a bit bigger and better than Z Cord midsize.   

 

A little concerned that with the longer lengths and going back to 125g shaft that swingweight will get pretty high.  Maybe try different grip?  Thought about trying MMT 105X/125X and soft stepping a couple times? I'm reshafting GW with above set up/specs.  Hope to get by end of week. 

 

Before I bit the bullet, what am i missing? Any other ideas?

[Stuart_G]

10 hours ago, JLo_73 said:

A little concerned that with the longer lengths and going back to 125g shaft that swingweight will get pretty high.  Maybe try different grip?

 

Forget trying to use grip weight to manipulate swing weight - reality of how the feel changes rarely matches what the scale tells you.

 

Lighter head weight is really the best solution.   In most cases even shaft weight wont have much of an effect.

 

The one exception I'm aware of is the steelfiber i110's - they have a high balance point and can drop the swing weight down 3-4 points compared to most other shafts.   Might try the stiff for the i-series SF if you fit into X for the MMT's.

 

 

[JLo_73]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Forget trying to use grip weight to manipulate swing weight - reality of how the feel changes rarely matches what the scale tells you.

 

Lighter head weight is really the best solution.   In most cases even shaft weight wont have much of an effect.

 

The one exception I'm aware of is the steelfiber i110's - they have a high balance point and can drop the swing weight down 3-4 points compared to most other shafts.   Might try the stiff for the i-series SF if you fit into X for the MMT's.

 

 

 

Thx Stuart.  When i initially got the irons, they built them with A weight heads so that isn't going for me.  I read that the MMT are mid-high balance point, are they much different than the SF?  Can you elaborate on the comment around grip weight?

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, JLo_73 said:

I read that the MMT are mid-high balance point, are they much different than the SF?

 

Never tried them myself, but based on what I read it's the opposite - more a mid to slightly low balance point.

 

MMT's are a softer profile than the SF i-series - that's why I suggested dropping a flex - unless you're the type that prefers a stiffer feeling shaft.

 

1 hour ago, JLo_73 said:

  Can you elaborate on the comment around grip weight?

 

The swing weight system and concept was developed at a time when there was no variations in grip weight so it was never designed to manage grip weight changes.  In fact, it was only really designed to help match weight feel by determining what head weight changes are needed for small length changes.   So the scale readings are not a reliable indicator of how the head weight feel will change when butt side weight changes happen.

[JLo_73]

7 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Never tried them myself, but based on what I read it's the opposite - more a mid to slightly low balance point.

 

MMT's are a softer profile than the SF i-series - that's why I suggested dropping a flex - unless you're the type that prefers a stiffer feeling shaft.

 

 

The swing weight system and concept was developed at a time when there was no variations in grip weight so it was never designed to manage grip weight changes.  In fact, it was only really designed to help match weight feel by determining what head weight changes are needed for small length changes.   So the scale readings are not a reliable indicator of how the head weight feel will change when butt side weight changes happen.

Thx Stuart for quick response.  I went back to their website and realized the column was kick point not balance point.   I feel like i've struggled in the past with shafts that were too stiff (Modus 125X) and swing changes have me more focused on good tempo.   Any thoughts on MMT 125S, maybe SS?

 

I reread a few of your posts and better understand the grip weight thing.  Putting SW aside for a minute, any thoughts on MCC Midsize weight of 66G vs. Iomic/TV which are low 50s.  I get that I'm adding ~12-13G in addition to an extra 12 grams in the shaft.   Any thoughts in impact of this potential set ups?

[Stuart_G]

18 hours ago, JLo_73 said:

 any thoughts on MCC Midsize weight of 66G vs. Iomic/TV which are low 50s. 

 

My thoughts don't matter.  Grip selection is 100% about personal preference.  It's all about how comfortable they feel in your hands when you swing.  Sorry but that's not something I (or anyone else) can help you with.

 

The only thing I will add is that a change in grip weight might effect what shaft weight might be the best fit since it is also a contributor to the total weight of the club.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Stuart_G

[JLo_73]

Thx Stuart for all the thoughts.  If i add up all the input, i'm taking away that SW shouldn't weigh in as much as maybe I have been thinking.  I know that I like a heavier feel so if adding 10-12 grams back in the shaft (spread evenly), potentially 8-10 grams for grip, the overall weight increases by 20+ grams unless you take some out from the head.  In the grand scheme of a club that is 400+ grams, it's a pretty small proportion.  Am i on the right path?

[Stuart_G]

27 minutes ago, JLo_73 said:

Thx Stuart for all the thoughts.  If i add up all the input, i'm taking away that SW shouldn't weigh in as much as maybe I have been thinking. 

 

If you're referring to the swing weight value, then yes.    But head weight feel can be important so while you do want to make sure the feel is good, don't obsess over any particular value.

 

 

27 minutes ago, JLo_73 said:

I know that I like a heavier feel so if adding 10-12 grams back in the shaft (spread evenly), potentially 8-10 grams for grip, the overall weight increases by 20+ grams unless you take some out from the head.  In the grand scheme of a club that is 400+ grams, it's a pretty small proportion.  Am i on the right path?

 

Only testing will give you the answer to that.   Just realize that head weight and total weight are too different aspects of the club's weight feel - and they each can effect the feel during different parts of the swing so should be fit somewhat separately.

[Zitlow]

I have a standard Mavrik driver with a 45.75" shaft. It has a weight port on the back with a 5 gram weight.

 

If I cut .75" off the butt how much total weight would I need on the back to match the current swing weight? 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Zitlow

[JLo_73]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:00 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

If you're referring to the swing weight value, then yes.    But head weight feel can be important so while you do want to make sure the feel is good, don't obsess over any particular value.

 

 

 

Only testing will give you the answer to that.   Just realize that head weight and total weight are too different aspects of the club's weight feel - and they each can effect the feel during different parts of the swing so should be fit somewhat separately.

Good advice Stuart G on the Steelfiber 110.   Had one of my irons reshafted and spent time at the range today.   I went with 110R and seems to be a good fit for me.  Even at 1.5" over (and A weight heads), it's still only E1 and I didn't notice it being a problem.  Planning to reshaft the rest of the set soon.  Thanks again

[drvrwdge]

@Stuart_GPosted this in another thread but if I’m going with 120g shaft (Tour V) playing 1” over what should I be looking at for wedge shafts? Was think s400 but thinking overall weight and sw might be high at 1” over so since flex softens as we weaken and I’m looking to keep static weight and sw as low as possible should I consider going DG x100 120?

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, drvrwdge said:

@Stuart_GPosted this in another thread but if I’m going with 120g shaft (Tour V) playing 1” over what should I be looking at for wedge shafts? Was think s400 but thinking overall weight and sw might be high at 1” over so since flex softens as we weaken and I’m looking to keep static weight and sw as low as possible should I consider going DG x100 120?

 

Effect of length on static weight is negligible.

 

Effect of shaft on swing weight is also not very influential.   SW will be all about length and what you can manage for head weight.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "since flex softens as we weaken."?

But while there can be some exceptions, for most people, the shorter length and slower head speed, results in the stiffness feel not being much of an issue.  Shaft selection is almost always about shaft weight or total static weight.

 

So to answer the question, you should look at a lot of different options.  Try them out and see what works the best for you.   No one here can answer that question, only you can.

 

[drvrwdge]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Effect of length on static weight is negligible.

 

Effect of shaft on swing weight is also not very influential.   SW will be all about length and what you can manage for head weight.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "since flex softens as we weaken."?

But while there can be some exceptions, for most people, the shorter length and slower head speed, results in the stiffness feel not being much of an issue.  Shaft selection is almost always about shaft weight or total static weight.

 

So to answer the question, you should look at a lot of different options.  Try them out and see what works the best for you.   No one here can answer that question, only you can.

 

Sorry meant shafts weaken as we add length. 

[Stuart_G]

8 minutes ago, drvrwdge said:

Sorry meant shafts weaken as we add length. 

 

Not really a significant or noticeable amount for most.   And that's assuming the head weight doesn't change.   If you adjust the head weight to maintain a constant swing weight as the length increases, then the shaft will actually play stiffer as you get longer.

[jonkevin]

I have a putter that’s 34.5” and will be cutting it down to 33”. Headweight is 340. Do I need a heavier or lighter grip so the weight isn’t drastically different?

[bogeyman71]

I would add weight to the head before messing with the grips. But to answer your question a lighter grip creates a heavier swing weight. 

[Stuart_G]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:51 PM, jonkevin said:

I have a putter that’s 34.5” and will be cutting it down to 33”. Headweight is 340. Do I need a heavier or lighter grip so the weight isn’t drastically different?

 

With putters - forget swing weight and the swing weight rules.

 

If you want to cut it down, just do it - or just choke up and go test it to see how it feels.   You may not need to add any weight anywhere.   If you do, you need to do it by feel with some lead tape.

[ilikegolf26]

Playing a Ventus Black 6x in Stealth+ at butt trimmed 45”. I calculated swingweight at D3 with 52g grip and 203g headweight. Does that sound right?

[srs06d]

Wealth of knowledge in here and tried searching this topic specifically for "Sim2" but came up empty.

 

I have a stock Taylormade Sim2 Driver at 45.75" with a 16 gram rear weight. If I take .5" off the butt end and replace the 16 gram weight with a 22 gram rear weight, will I end up relatively close to the stock swing weight? Is replacing the rear weight even possible?

[Seamus_McDuff]

1 hour ago, srs06d said:

Wealth of knowledge in here and tried searching this topic specifically for "Sim2" but came up empty.

 

I have a stock Taylormade Sim2 Driver at 45.75" with a 16 gram rear weight. If I take .5" off the butt end and replace the 16 gram weight with a 22 gram rear weight, will I end up relatively close to the stock swing weight? Is replacing the rear weight even possible?

 

Should be close. Might want to test first. Hit balls while choking up 1/2”. If it doesn’t feel right add lead tape in the back until it does then weigh the lead tape. 
 

Billy Bob’s has weights. 
 

https://billybobsgolf.com/product/taylormade-new-2021-sim2-sliding-and-round-headweights/

[CardsChamps11]

Thanks for the link!

Edited January 26, 2023 by CardsChamps11

[maximusppl]

I am sure this has been asked and covered but looks and ease of use aside , any advantages/disadvantages of using shaft tip weights (weight more in the hosel) vs lead tape on the cavity? I have a new set of irons and the swingweight is a bit off. If there isn't much difference, I am contemplating rebuilding the set to dial in the swingweights a bit more using tip weights, and at the same time using the nicer ferrules and grips. My thought is, does putting in more weight in the hosel vs on the back of the face(in the cavity) have any advantages/disadvantages? 

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, maximusppl said:

I am sure this has been asked and covered but looks and ease of use aside , any advantages/disadvantages of using shaft tip weights (weight more in the hosel) vs lead tape on the cavity?

 

No, not really.   In theory it can alter the c.g. location - but the reality is that with the normal amounts used, the actual movement of the c.g. (or other head dynamic characteristics) is trivial.

 

Although there are some that do not like the aesthetics of lead tape being visible on the head.  The game is so much a mind game that it could result in a legitimate advantage to use the tip weights for those individuals.

 

 

 

[thedoorman02]

This place is a wealth of knowledge and hopefully can help me with a swing weight question that is stumping me. I recently made a switch from Ventus Black 6x to Tensei 1K White 6x. When I changed to 1K White, I added a MCC+4 Midsize grip and cut the grip end down 0.5", which I thought would take the swing weight down.

 

I went to get the swing weight to see what weight I had to add to the head to get back to ~D6 and the scale said E3! Is there that much of a difference between Ventus and Tensei?

 

Head: Standard TSR3 weight (196g)

MCC Midsize Grip: 66g

Playing Length: 45"