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A good looking swing, or a swing that works.


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[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1297732862' post='2977796']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1297718021' post='2977126']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1297715594' post='2976967']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1297709774' post='2976676']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1297709648' post='2976670']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1297709198' post='2976639']
Maybe I'm very different in this regard, Monte, but to me, the beauty of a swing is determined entirely by ball flight and repeatability. Trevino, Lehman, Joe Durant, guys like that may not have what some consider to be "aesthetically pleasing" swings, but I find them gorgeous. It could be the competitive am in me talking, but when you watch most of the best Mid-Ams in the country, who need to compete at high levels even though they don't get to beat balls and play every day, have extended layoffs, etc; they all have idiosyncratic timing based moves that are designed to do one thing: repeat. Nathan Smith, Kevin Marsh, or if you spend any time in the Met a guy by the name of Brian Komline; theres that little hitch, or that little pause and re-route...never quick, never rushed. To me there's something to that. Rhythm in this game can mean everything, and although to some these swings might be "ugly," I couldn't disagree more.
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I love all the answers, it gives me hope.
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What are you hoping for?
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More fun and 4 hour rounds for everyone...LOL.
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Good luck with that. When I worked in Wisconsin we used to get off work at 7 - ish. Our mantra was Quantity over Quality. It wasn't about how well you played, it was about how many holes could you play before dark. Put me in the Lanny Wadkins speed category -- always played better when I played faster. BTW, 4 hrs is too slow by at least 30 - 60 minutes, but it's a worthy goal. 3 of the 'worst' things to happen to the pace of play were the 'Nicklaus Intensity' (sorry Jack), the pre-shot routine, and something called the Zone. (Ah, someone will hate me for the Nicklaus thing.)
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You and I agree on all points.

In junior golf in the 80's we played 4-somes, college scholarships were on the line, we carried our bags and there would be a fist fight if the round took over 3:30 or 3:45.

We once pantsed a guy and threw him in the women's locker room when he held up play for the field.
[/quote]

I assume that was then written into the scholarship agreement as a violation of ethics?

If I had to wait until I got in the Zone that nobody could define I never would have made it to the 19th hole. Play faster, make snap decisions, learn faster.

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I prefer a good looking score card.. how I got there is irrelevant 🙂

One that produces results under pressure...

10 year bump? Impressive

I went from a somewhat loopy swing with good tempo that produced a consistent 5 yard draw most every time. NEVER missed it right and always knew where the ball was going. Yes, I'd occasionally miss it left, but knew which side it would miss on. Well, started listening to the "experts" and decided to "fix" my swing. Went from shooting low 70s or better almost every round, to struggling to break 80 with a more "correct" looking swing. Guys I used to beat started beating me with their "home-made" swings. I would choose a repeatable, ugly swing over an aesthetically pleasing one that feels contrived/unnatural ANY day. You just gotta be real to yourself and do what WORKS.

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[quote name='aviator' timestamp='1297780142' post='2978889']
I went from a somewhat loopy swing with good tempo that produced a consistent 5 yard draw most every time. NEVER missed it right and always knew where the ball was going. Yes, I'd occasionally miss it left, but knew which side it would miss on. Well, started listening to the "experts" and decided to "fix" my swing. Went from shooting low 70s or better almost every round, to struggling to break 80 with a more "correct" looking swing. Guys I used to beat started beating me with their "home-made" swings. I would choose a repeatable, ugly swing over an aesthetically pleasing one that feels contrived/unnatural ANY day. You just gotta be real to yourself and do what WORKS.
[/quote]

You and I made the same mistake.

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Golf is not a game of perfect...

Too many of us, including myself, continue to tinker/search for a "better, more consistent, repeatable swing" instead of learning how to play better golf...

Scorecard could care less how "effecient, pretty, correct, graceful, connected" your swing is...

It wants to know how low you can go...

Thank you Ray Floyd, Brett Wetterich, Jim Furyk, Lee Trevino, Jim Thorpe, Corey Pavin, JB Holmes, Colin Montgomery, and on and on and on...

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[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1297783950' post='2979046']
Golf is not a game of perfect...

Too many of us, including myself, continue to tinker/search for a "better, more consistent, repeatable swing" instead of learning how to play better golf...

Scorecard could care less how "effecient, pretty, correct, graceful, connected" your swing is...

It wants to know how low you can go...

Thank you Ray Floyd, Brett Wetterich, Jim Furyk, Lee Trevino, Jim Thorpe, Corey Pavin, JB Holmes, Colin Montgomery, and on and on and on...
[/quote]

:) You're on my team...along with all of those guys. I want to see Pavin team up with JB Holmes... David Sutherland once told me that when he played with Corey he felt sorry for him all the way around, then they signed their scorecards and Pavin beat him by 2... Sorry, I don't really want to watch Geiberger & Weiskopf play. I want to see Tiger hitting a putter from 60 yards out at St. Andrews with his pant legs flapping in the wind...

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[quote name='aviator' timestamp='1297780142' post='2978889']
I went from a somewhat loopy swing with good tempo that produced a consistent 5 yard draw most every time. NEVER missed it right and always knew where the ball was going. Yes, I'd occasionally miss it left, but knew which side it would miss on. Well, started listening to the "experts" and decided to "fix" my swing. Went from shooting low 70s or better almost every round, to struggling to break 80 with a more "correct" looking swing. Guys I used to beat started beating me with their "home-made" swings. I would choose a repeatable, ugly swing over an aesthetically pleasing one that feels contrived/unnatural ANY day. You just gotta be real to yourself and do what WORKS.
[/quote]

that sounds like me, i played really well my first year on the mini tours with a swing that was a little long at the top and a ton of lag on the way down (think angel cabrera, thats pretty much what i look like except not as good). i hit a little 5 yard draw with everything and never missed it right. then i spent years trying to have a pretty swing that was wide at the top and hit a fade, and i missed it both ways and couldnt play a lick. im getting back to my old swing now and im hitting it better than i have in years. it might not be perfect but it works. i think what you said about knowing you could only miss it one direction is huge, its way underrated as far as im concerned, it makes the golf course a much bigger place, its like the fairways and greens are twice as wide as they are if you are trying to hit it straight and missing it both ways.

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I mentioned this about Tiger earlier in another thread I think, and it applies to all of us who can play a little...we'd all be better off taking a break from range practice for a few months, and simply play golf with one club, say a 4 iron (or a 7 iron like Tin Cup!). We would have to rely on creativity and feel, and learn how to score, which is what we are all after anyway.

Blogging about all things golf on my blog at [url="https://www.scottcolegolf.com"]Scott Cole Golf[/url]. Will be getting back to teaching part time in 2019!

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[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1297797540' post='2979637']
I mentioned this about Tiger earlier in another thread I think, and it applies to all of us who can play a little...we'd all be better off taking a break from range practice for a few months, and simply play golf with one club, say a 4 iron (or a 7 iron like Tin Cup!). We would have to rely on creativity and feel, and learn how to score, which is what we are all after anyway.
[/quote]

but then there's the 7 iron, i never miss with the 7 iron.

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Im a 14 year old who practices or plays pretty much every day. I have the great looking smooth swing and i hit it really straight but short. Im 4 10 90 pounds. I have a single digit handicap. The pretty swing and ball flight looks great to everyone watching on the rang and course but its all in the head. ALL IN THE HEAD. ALL IN THE HEAD. Doesnt matter what swing looks like as long as you get the ball to where you want it to go. JUST ELIMINATE THE MENTAL LAPSES AND YOU WILL SHOOT LOWER NO MATTER WHAT. Thats what iv been working on. IT WORKS.

!!!!!!!!!!!MASTER THE HEAD THEN WORRY ABOUT SWING!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • 10 years later...
On 2/14/2011 at 9:55 AM, aliikane said:

No 2 swings are alike. It doesn't matter what your swing looks like, perfect or homemade as long as you hit the ball well. A good technical swing does increase your chances of hitting the ball better. I think it may be harder to make a homemade swing work but can be just as good. I think the key is having a repeatable swing that you don't think about and you are on auto-pilot.

I would say the opposite is true in my experience. When I first started to play this game I used a homemade swing and I hit the ball well. As I grew more obsessive with the game I started this journey of emulating your pros and their swings. I became a junkie for any swing tip. I never took lessons, but I went through extensive swing changes. I did at one point achieve a swing that looked beautiful by traditional standards. Albeit, my scores were even higher than before with my homemade swing. And the attractive new swing felt awkward. Took lots of effort to perform. Two years ago, I ditched the technically sound swing. I figured, if I'm going to continue to suck at this game I may as well feel comfortable while playing poorly. So I went back to my natural way if swinging. Everything I do in my setup and swing motion is something that feels natural and makes sense to me. I went from shooting in the high 90s and low 100s to low 80s. I actually shot my all time low round of 79 last year. All using my natural swing motion which looks more like swinging a baseball bat. Everything I do in my swing an instructor would not advise. I bend my lead arm at the top, I sway when shifting weight to my right side, I use a ten finger grip, and my back swing is long. I carry my driver 250 and it is dead straight. I hit my irons high and straight. Just need to work on the short game. 

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16 minutes ago, WeAreAllUnique said:

I would say the opposite is true in my experience. When I first started to play this game I used a homemade swing and I hit the ball well. As I grew more obsessive with the game I started this journey of emulating your pros and their swings. I became a junkie for any swing tip. I never took lessons, but I went through extensive swing changes. I did at one point achieve a swing that looked beautiful by traditional standards. Albeit, my scores were even higher than before with my homemade swing. And the attractive new swing felt awkward. Took lots of effort to perform. Two years ago, I ditched the technically sound swing. I figured, if I'm going to continue to suck at this game I may as well feel comfortable while playing poorly. So I went back to my natural way if swinging. Everything I do in my setup and swing motion is something that feels natural and makes sense to me. I went from shooting in the high 90s and low 100s to low 80s. I actually shot my all time low round of 79 last year. All using my natural swing motion which looks more like swinging a baseball bat. Everything I do in my swing an instructor would not advise. I bend my lead arm at the top, I sway when shifting weight to my right side, I use a ten finger grip, and my back swing is long. I carry my driver 250 and it is dead straight. I hit my irons high and straight. Just need to work on the short game. 

 

10 year bump? Impressive

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On 2/14/2011 at 8:10 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

I know I kind of asked this once before, but I am intrigued by this both personally and professionally. I went through this dilemma and ended up on the wring side.

 

It seems like an easy question. Do I want a swing that looks good, or do I want one that feels athletic and good to me and hits the ball solid, no matter what it looks like?

 

We are seeing a resurgence of homemade swings on the Tour and fewer manufactured swings like CH III.

 

However, I see all of these contrived perfect looking moves on the range, followed by the proverbial "scratch" finish and pose.

 

It seems to me that people are more interested in being Fernando Llamas. "It's better to look good than to feel good."

 

I know the theory is you want both and having a perfect move gives hope that you will hit it better.

 

What is important to you and why?


Can you show an example of a beautiful swing that does not work? 

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On 2/14/2011 at 5:10 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

I know I kind of asked this once before, but I am intrigued by this both personally and professionally. I went through this dilemma and ended up on the wring side.

 

It seems like an easy question. Do I want a swing that looks good, or do I want one that feels athletic and good to me and hits the ball solid, no matter what it looks like?

 

We are seeing a resurgence of homemade swings on the Tour and fewer manufactured swings like CH III.

 

However, I see all of these contrived perfect looking moves on the range, followed by the proverbial "scratch" finish and pose.

 

It seems to me that people are more interested in being Fernando Llamas. "It's better to look good than to feel good."

 

I know the theory is you want both and having a perfect move gives hope that you will hit it better.

 

What is important to you and why?

 

I was at your Seattle clinic a few years back I remember telling you I had never really seen my swing on video and that I just knew what it felt like when playing well.  When we had some one on one time you took a look at the video of my swing real quick and said "You need to find a way to keep your right (trail) shoulder coming out to quick, everything else is fine."  I commented about my follow through seemed kind of low.  You said "nope, it's good."   And didn't let me see any more video.  I realized later that you just knew I was going to try and destroy myself chasing a look.   Best insightful instruction I've ever received!

 

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Easy question.....  The one that works not one that looks good!

 

But I have a homemade swing, never had a lesson...... open stance even with putter and strong grip etc play par golf.   In fact I love raggin on peeps with beautiful swings that hit all the points but they dont own their swings just looks pretty.  Remember the kid on the block that had the new fancy bmx bike that couldn't do 5hit with it vs the guy with a piece of junk that brings it (me lol)

 

Rule #1 Swing will not hurt you.... its healthy

Rule #2 Repeatable

 

I love Moe Norman..... I don't swing that way but love the guy for many reasons!

 

P.S. My playing partner also plays par golf and has a beautiful swing and peeps that join us for the round or on the range ooo and awe over him and we always crack up, they never say anything about my swing just about the shot lol 

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I try and like my own posts but can't figure out how...

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I’m not pleased with the sight of my swing, but I practice to “play” better. As long as the ball “looks good” in the air, that’s the only image of my swing I need. 

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I’ll be a bit of a dissident here, but I don’t really think the question is a choice between pretty or good.  You can have a pretty swing and also be good. And yes, you can have an “ugly” swing and also be good, but I would argue that there are far more pretty swings that are good players than there are ugly swings that are good players (as a percentage). 
 

I think what was meant by the question is whether one should just be happy being a good player and not trying to make your swing something it isn’t, and I would tend to agree with that sentiment. You can add “chasing distance” to this debate too, and the general consensus is that is a bad idea if it makes you do unnatural things for your swing. 
 

But I’m on a path to getting better and my swing is also getting better looking. I’ll never have Adam Scott’s swing, but I’m trying to incorporate as many “good” moves as possible and it is working...slowly but surely. The only thing that really matters is impact, but I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of those “ugly” swings are actually quite “pretty” at impact. 

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The real issue here is Ego - how it impacts your personality and choices... and it applies to all things golf...

 

Your swing

Your Clubs/bag

The Club/CC you belong to

 

1. If rubbing dog poop in my hair made me a better putter I would probably do it...

2. I had trouble hitting long irons high - but I had to get my ego out of the way to replace irons with 6/5/4/3 hybrids (and i have a 7 hybrid)

3. Choose to play at the club that has most competitive group versus some fancy Bushwood or what's closest to home.

 

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Many people chase good-looking swings, but pretty means nothing standing over the ball.  There are a great many people at driving ranges and that play golf with nice, even pretty looking swings.  I've watched them on the first tee make really nice practice swings, then as they get over the ball we see mechanics turn to yuk and ball go which ever way but straight. 😛  Last weekend saw exactly that from a guy we were playing with.  He had a nice practice swing.  I am sure he worked on that, maybe?  After a few holes we got bored watching him and waiting for him to find his ball.

 

If YOUR swing works for YOU don't change it.  I'd even go so far as to say, don't chase Ernie Els perfection.  If you're going to chase anything chase good golf.  See Matthew Wolff. 

 

My compact hard swing is self-made, and I am self-taught.  I see the ball and hit it, period.  My swing works even on days when my joints don't want to work.  No, it doesn't work perfectly, but it gets the job done at minimal cost.  Also reason I never play 9-holes, no time to recover strokes, but that's another topic.

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