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Your clubs are too heavy if........


Lefty_3Jack
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I’m confused by this thread.  I always thought club weight were two distinct measurements.  Total weight being the actual weight of the club and swing weight being a measurement of different parts a club.  In other words, you could have an iron (like mine) fitted with 95 gram graphite shafts with a D-6 SW but still be lighter than another iron with 125 gram steel shaft with D-2 SW.  Is the modern thought that heavier club weight leads to tighter dispersion, or  greater SW, or a combination of both?

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1 hour ago, hunterdog said:

I’m confused by this thread.  I always thought club weight were two distinct measurements.  Total weight being the actual weight of the club and swing weight being a measurement of different parts a club.  In other words, you could have an iron (like mine) fitted with 95 gram graphite shafts with a D-6 SW but still be lighter than another iron with 125 gram steel shaft with D-2 SW.  Is the modern thought that heavier club weight leads to tighter dispersion, or  greater SW, or a combination of both?

 

I'm not surprised.  There is a lot of potentially confusing and conflicting information in the thread.

 

Yes, club static weight and club swing weight are separate measurements.   The confusing part is that the adjectives "heavy" and "light" can refer to either measurement and most don't take the time or know to provide clarification as to which measurement they are referring to.   Some might not know which one is really the problem.   What we actually feel as heft or weight or resistance when we swing the club is a complex combination of both quantities that can be different for different individuals.   It typically takes some experimentation and testing to figure out what the best combination of both quantities might be the best fit for any individual.

 

The modern thought is that the best dispersion comes from the best combination of both.  Too heavy or too light for either can be detrimental to dispersion and accuracy and shot shape or face control.   The way the results change as the  club goes either heavier or lighter than the 'ideal' for and individual is just too subjective to make any of the generalizations useful in the context of fitting.

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  • 9 months later...
On 9/23/2011 at 8:22 AM, 1puttwoods said:

Sometimes lighter shafts cause someone to come over the top more and heavier shafts help some people drop it inside more. Not in all instances but in certain cases.

I seem to be the opposite. Heavier shafts give me the feeling like I have to work it more, this instinctively I heave towards the ball and come over the top. With lighter shafts (95-105g), I am able to maintain and nice steady tempo and more snap at impact, which increases my speed, trajectory, and speed. 

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On 9/23/2011 at 10:23 AM, blademan68 said:

90% of golfers would probably do better with heavier clubs, and actually hit the ball farther (on avg). Even older folks. D4-5 is probably a good weight for most people....

 

Not sure where the 90% and heavier came from. I would say that quite a few golfers would do better with different weight clubs, especially shafts.

 

blade, might I ask how old you are? Today is my 71st birthday... lightening golf clubs has been a steady progression for me since about 2008. That's the year I dumped ~120-gram Dynalite S300s (high-launch cousin of DG S300s) and went back to R-flex shafts. I was losing distance, and my swing tempo was hurt by the extra weight. Old injuries and simple wear-and-tear on the body make handling the higher weights hard work.

 

For about a decade, rough fittings recommended lighter weight shafts in the 100-gram range.

 

blade, you rightly identify swingweight as a critical factor. One of the problems with lighter graphite shafts (I'm there now) is some people have trouble feeling club at top. This was a problem circa 2014 when TM and a couple of others dabbled in sub-50 gram driver shafts. Better golfers could handle it, but the average golfer that is was supposed to help could not feel the top. This means he had trouble dropping it into the slot.

 

A solution for too light shaft feel is to bolster swingweight. Pre-COVID, Ping and Callaway were suggesting older golfers get tip weighting for their graphite-shafted irons, to bring the C9 or D0 SwWt up to D2 or so. That way, they can feel when they reach the top. I wanted this done with my new MAX irons, but the Callaway rep said a custom order like that could trigger a COVID-related supply-chain delay. (Without custom order, it still took three months)

 

I generally like the irons, but at regrip time I likely will try some {tungsten powder + cork} down shaft to increase the SwWt. My misses usually relate to super-loop kill shots when I can't quite feel the top.

Edited by ChipNRun
Correct grammar.
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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, set 9.5°; weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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On 1/12/2021 at 10:05 AM, phizzy30 said:

10 grams can make a significant difference for some.  It changes the feel a bit and increases SW by a point or two I believe.  I know for me, I have to play D3 or D4 in my irons or else it will throw my swing off.  I usually find that my shots go left if it's too light.  I also prefer 125 to 130 gram shafts.  Not a fan of putting lead tape on my clubs. 

 

A point or two... 😂

 

I went from D to F with 14g brass ferrules and 130g Modus IMG_20200821_155928_001.jpg.02dd6be06d19360f9de6d80991cc43bf.jpg

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Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 9°, Rogue Elite 859 65R

Adams Idea Pro 20° VS Proto
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Nike MC04w 
TP5X

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3 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

 

They literally dropped into the slot by themselves 😂

What is the total weight of those bad boys?  I wasn’t quite as bold but I bought the same 14g ferrules in stainless and built to a D9/E0 SW at a 455g total weight on my one length build.  Pretty happy with them too other than needing some lie angle tweaks on a couple.  
 

EB82C228-6EB7-49DB-9DB3-5D266E87C6A0.jpeg

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59 minutes ago, ClubBuildRookie said:

What is the total weight of those bad boys?  I wasn’t quite as bold but I bought the same 14g ferrules in stainless and built to a D9/E0 SW at a 455g total weight on my one length build.  Pretty happy with them too other than needing some lie angle tweaks on a couple.  
 

EB82C228-6EB7-49DB-9DB3-5D266E87C6A0.jpeg

 

I'll go back and look, I have a spreadsheet 😂 My SW were a little heavier because I had them at +1"

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Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 9°, Rogue Elite 859 65R

Adams Idea Pro 20° VS Proto
Nike VR Pro Combo 3-PW XP115
Nike VR 54/58/62 XP115
Nike MC04w 
TP5X

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6 hours ago, Hack Daddy said:

 

A point or two... 😂

 

I went from D to F with 14g brass ferrules and 130g Modus IMG_20200821_155928_001.jpg.02dd6be06d19360f9de6d80991cc43bf.jpg

Those are some monsters. I've experimented quite a bit with heavy swing weight, never went well. Im comfortable with the standard D2 glued to a 130g shaft with a standard grip.

 

If you gave me those for a summer, I'd dig a hole to China and need shoulder replacement when I got there.

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Your clubs are too heavy if the bottom falls out of your golf bag when you try to pick it up!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Pls resume the pi****g contest...

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Some combo of any or all:

M5 w/ Px Evenflow Blue 65 6.0 / Ping G400 LST 10* w/ Px Evenflow Blue 75 6.0
Rogue SZ 15* w/ Px Evenflow Blue 75 6.0
Cally 416 19* Hybrid w/ Diamana S+ 82g Stiff
4-PW: JPX 921 Forged w/ F3 Recoil 95's / Callaway (OG) Apex w/ KBS PGI 80g / Bridgestone J40 Combo 4-P w/ Steelfiber i95 Stiff
52*, 56* Vokey SM5's

60* Wilson Staff
Ping Ti Anser Wrx

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On 11/3/2021 at 12:30 AM, rwl said:

Your clubs are too heavy if the bottom falls out of your golf bag when you try to pick it up!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Pls resume the pi****g contest...

Spoken like an ultra light graphite player slinging C5 SW’s that only rides 18 after pulling up to the bag drop area to unload his gear due to either laziness or lack of stamina to walk 18 and fear of getting a hernia from carrying his bag from the car to the cart!! Sorry couldn’t resist.  

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On 1/12/2021 at 12:05 PM, phizzy30 said:

Not a fan of putting lead tape on my clubs. 

 

 

image.png.3fd6e9c22fc5fd49bf5abc4be76ec115.png

 

 

(yes, I know, it's an old post)

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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On 9/24/2011 at 8:54 AM, tbomb said:

This goes out to Ben B, I had a momentus and it destroyed my swing for a month because I used it to warm up and I didn't think much of it....

Then I started coming over the top, which I have never done, ever. The heavy weight natural wanted to fall to across the line for me and I hated it. I have a speedstik now and I find that does the trick just fine.

I found a good cheap swing trainer. Take a beach towel and tie a knot in the end of it .

Can't bring it back too fast or off line ;it clocks you in the head.

Edited by Flacoman
Spelling typo
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I know the general Golf WRX trend is heavy swingweights, heavy static weights. 

 

I am a smooth tempo, smooth transition swinger. I am finder than lighter works better for me. With a lighter total weight and swingweight, i feel like i have better command of the club and my tempo is smoother. With heavier weighted clubs/shafts, I feel the weight of the club causing my wrists angles change or something like that

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13 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I know the general Golf WRX trend is heavy swingweights, heavy static weights. 

 

I am a smooth tempo, smooth transition swinger. I am finder than lighter works better for me. With a lighter total weight and swingweight, i feel like i have better command of the club and my tempo is smoother. With heavier weighted clubs/shafts, I feel the weight of the club causing my wrists angles change or something like that

I feel like smooth tempo swingers like yourself can hit about anything if they really wanted to.  My background is baseball, hockey, tennis so If my clubs are too light my body goes haywire and I start clenching and swinging inconsistently.  I try to get a smoother swing but violent thrash is all I every accomplish.  hahaha  

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It only hurts once, except golf it hurts a lifetime

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I think your clubs are too heavy is when you pick it up and your mind says this is too heavy.  I stick lead on a club and feel and swing until i think its right.  sometimes its d5 on a set and sometimes its d2 probably cause of shaft weights.  others are club whores. i'm a shaft whore.

It only hurts once, except golf it hurts a lifetime

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9 minutes ago, Doaner84 said:

I feel like smooth tempo swingers like yourself can hit about anything if they really wanted to.  My background is baseball, hockey, tennis so If my clubs are too light my body goes haywire and I start clenching and swinging inconsistently.  I try to get a smoother swing but violent thrash is all I every accomplish.  hahaha  

Yes, as long as its not too heavy and not too stout of a shaft.

 

I have made the mistake too many times to date, where it goes like this. I order a set of irons, typically -0.5" shorter in length. Then I ask for them to be built closer to "standard" swingweight, whatever standard may be for that OEM and iron set. So thats adding about 6 grams of weight to the heads approximately. I recently bought a set of Titleist T300 irons like this, 98 gram shafts, -0.5", swingweighted to around D1 or D2. When I got the set, and just grabbed one and held it by the grip, my first thought was, these are heavy.

 

Due to circumstance, I removed the 98 gram steel shafts from the set because of some pre-existing injuries that were getting aggravated from steel shafts. Bought some 85 gram graphite shafts (LA Golf AXS Red) and was planning to add some tip weights and be done with it. However, my interest got peaked by MOI matching and I was told to take a club from the set (i choose the 8 iron), build it with no tip weights and hit it and add lead tape until its optimized.

 

Based on the optimization, I added only about 3 grams to the 8 iron head, but dropped 13 grams of static weight from the shaft change. With a standard 50 gram grip, the 8 iron only swingweighted at like C7 or C8. I just built the rest of the set around the optimized 8 iron to a MOI matching build. 

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I played my best round with irons ever when I randomly added a 50 gram tourlock internal shaft weight plus a 50 gram tourlock counterweight to some X Flex $ Tapers in iblades.  I should have left that set up, but it wouldn't be as fun to use the same set of clubs/setup for multiple rounds.  The extra 100g wasn't all that cumbersome because of where it was distributed and seemed to help with control.  

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