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PING’s Solheim Proposes Ball Rating System


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[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1324505223' post='3972433']
[quote name='HoosierMizuno' timestamp='1324499979' post='3972079']
[quote name='Ping Bling' timestamp='1324495731' post='3971753']
I remember watching an interview on tv (I think that it was with Bubba Watson) talking about the sport moving forward. He didn't want things to change (like longer courses and restrictions on the golf ball) because [b]golf is the only sport that doesn't want to evolve[/b]. Guys in the NBA are bigger and faster than guys in the Jordan era but the NBA isnt putting rims up at 15 feet and bringing back the 3 point line another 20 feet. Same thing with the NFL. Quarterbacks with bigger arms arent having to throw lead footballs. J[b]ust leave the game alone and let it evolve!!![/b]!
[/quote]

So are we saying to let golf evolve or don't want it to evolve? Anyways, basketball still uses the same rim and height and the ball is the same. same goes for football. In golf, the ball has definitely changed to go farther and straighter from 15 years ago while the drivers create more distance than 15 years ago. Guys are getting stronger and bigger, but equipment technology has helped length too.
[/quote]

the NFL changes the football periodically, and there is even a different ball for kicking than there is for regular play.
[/quote]

Oh no I didn't mean in a single game. I meant after many years, now that the NFL is a passers league compared to when guys like Emmit Smith played, the football itself hasn't changed. The NFL didn't fill it with rocks or something so that the sport reamained a rushers league.

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Isn't this the same forum where people were accusing Nicklaus of trying to protect his record when he had the temerity to suggest that the ball needed to be limited (as he has been saying for nearly 30 years). The same thing was said in the days of the first rubber balls being used, with warnings of longer courses and slower rounds... but what do the oldies know - they just don't like change, right? Yes, as usual the R&A and USGA have completed missed the boat, but better to do something now rather than assume the distance limit has been reached and find out later that you were wrong - make sure of it.

I am absolutely and resolutely against different equipment and rules for professionals and amateurs. While a tournament setup is going to be different to the standard setup of a course that does not change the fact that amateurs can still compare themselves to the professionals to some extent, be it based on particular shots or scores. Make them use different equipment and there is even less basis for comparison. The rules of golf, and therefore the equipment used, should apply equally to everyone.

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Feeling sad and neglected: Taylormade P750 (4-PW) / Srixon 765 (4-PW) - Nippon Modus 3 130 S

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Amateurs only -
Before you start messing with golf balls for amateurs force them to play tee boxes in line with their handicaps. That's right force! Present your handicap card as you pay and to the starter. Play any ball you want with whatever equipment you want but don't slow down the round. I laugh even in this post guys playing with ego. My course which isn't long at 7000! 98% of all golfers should be playing 5800 - 6200 yard courses. I know very few guys and I mean scratch to 8 that routinely hit 200+ par 3's. Most long courses are made up of long as s*** par 3's and unreachable in 2 par 5 and 1 long 4. Play a 5800 and break par lower your handicap and move back.


#1 problem solved - rounds sped up.
#2 guys that are long as s*** can drive the green and work on their putting
#3 short hitters can start hitting shots to greens with 8 9 or PW like pros.

Long hitters are always going to be long and not accurate, accurate drivers are going to be shorter, good putters are always going to be good. Good chippers and Putters take the money.

Pros Only -

Limit the ball. And you can't buy it except as a tour issue on this forum LOL

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After looking up the top 10 drivers of 2011 and their world ranking this thread is useless. There is NO correlation or evidence that the longest hitters = lowerscores. One guy in the top ten was ranked 900+, a few in the 100s and some in the top 10. Putting seems to be a much better guage.

 

 

 

 

 

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Byron Morgan 615 33"

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Distance relating to scores is not the only discusion.

Taylormade M1 440 - Tensei CK Pro Orange TX
Adams VST Hybrid (19) - GD AD-DI X
Tour Edge Exotics CB4 (4 wood) - GD AD-DI X
Mizuno JPX 919 Tour (5-PW) KBS S-Taper S
Mizuno JPX 919 Forged (4) KBS S-Taper S
Taylormade Milled Grind (52 & 58, SB) - Nippon Modus 130 S
Taylormade Spider Tour (red) / Scotty Cameron Button Back Newport
Titleist Pro V1
Feeling sad and neglected: Taylormade P750 (4-PW) / Srixon 765 (4-PW) - Nippon Modus 3 130 S

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It already is.

Taylormade M1 440 - Tensei CK Pro Orange TX
Adams VST Hybrid (19) - GD AD-DI X
Tour Edge Exotics CB4 (4 wood) - GD AD-DI X
Mizuno JPX 919 Tour (5-PW) KBS S-Taper S
Mizuno JPX 919 Forged (4) KBS S-Taper S
Taylormade Milled Grind (52 & 58, SB) - Nippon Modus 130 S
Taylormade Spider Tour (red) / Scotty Cameron Button Back Newport
Titleist Pro V1
Feeling sad and neglected: Taylormade P750 (4-PW) / Srixon 765 (4-PW) - Nippon Modus 3 130 S

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[quote name='maverick' timestamp='1324661643' post='3980117']
Can any one correlate lower scores with longer drives? Better putting is the answer.Drive for show, putt for dough still is one of the best saying in golf.



[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/blog/_/name/golf/id/6964954"]Putting Stats[/url]


[/quote]
Sure, but I think this is still missing part of the point. Isn't golf about more than just driving and putting? As it is we're moving toward a future where pros might as well carry just their driver, a couple wedges and a putter. At the same time, beginners and many amateurs are getting frustrated at the increased distances necessary to accommodate pros (as many clubs dream of hosting tournaments). Meanwhile, amateurs deal with slower play and longer games and clubs face less revenue and higher maintenance costs which get passed on to players via higher greens fees.

I think Solheim offers a legit solution. While many say that people should play shorter tees, as the short ones have already been labeled "ladies," ego will probably stop most guys from playing them. Solheim offers a solution that address the problem at the pro level of forcing pros to use long irons and reducing required course length and at the amateur level by regarding course length, ego, and costs.

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In my opinion this is a bad idea. This is the whole point of different tees. It makes it enjoyable for all levels to play. Golf balls are another variable that doesn't needed to be added. The handicap system can be confusing enough for some people. I also think it would benefit certain players and hurt others. Distance obviously isn't what wins tournaments otherwise John Daily wouldve won 15 majors by now

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It seems like one of the underlying problems is the growing difference between the tour-level players and amateurs and the lack of golfers to play within their ability.

The pros in any sport tend to drive equipment technology to the edge and it seems wrong to limit their ability by “handicapping” the distance of their golf ball specifically. Can you imagine Olympic skiers having to use soft flex skis and boots to slow down their slalom runs?

I think playing a course that is proper for one’s ability is a better solution. Maybe having more tee boxes and enforcing the tees that are used given one’s ability would work.

I wouldn’t encourage a downhill skier to take a black diamond their first time out on the snow so the “courses for horses” seems to be a logical solution to me. A relatively simple way to make a course different is to have multiple tee boxes. Although this doesn't help with the growing total length of courses (that pros would need to play) and the subsequent maintenance costs, environmental impact, and increased playing times... unless tee box usage is enforced.

IF they decide to move forward by limiting the golf ball more than it is today; I would argue that a single "official" limited flight golf ball be used by everyone - pros and amateurs alike.

Too many clubs to bother listing...

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Play more tour events on traditional links courses, with firm fairways with the rough let to grow nice & high, preferably in a stiff breeze.

Make sure the bunkers have fairly steep faces. Bunkers, by definition, are 'hazards'. I'd say close on 90% of tour courses this isn't the case, especially on the beautifully manicured, seductive layouts, with lawn-like, wide fairways; one and a half inch high 'rough' and pristine greens, that we see week in week out on the PGA tour. That's not a dig, it's reality

There are supposed to be occasional bad bounces in golf; it's called 'the rub of the green', a term we, sadly, hardly ever hear these days

Let's see the end of -24 as a winning total. Over a traditional links with any sort of breeze, you'll more likely see - 12, which is never going to upset any regulatory oficianados

As for the other mere mortals, who make up 99% of the golfing population, let them play with any balls & clubs the manufacturers want to sell them

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[quote name='pr123' timestamp='1325536337' post='4018309']
these guys work hard to hit the ball farther. If suddenly there was a rise in great putters on tour, would people think to make the cup smaller?
[/quote]

Not a good example, unless you are talking about there being a rise in 'better' putters due to technological developments... Now if there was a method that yippers could use to yip a bit less you might have a point...

Taylormade M1 440 - Tensei CK Pro Orange TX
Adams VST Hybrid (19) - GD AD-DI X
Tour Edge Exotics CB4 (4 wood) - GD AD-DI X
Mizuno JPX 919 Tour (5-PW) KBS S-Taper S
Mizuno JPX 919 Forged (4) KBS S-Taper S
Taylormade Milled Grind (52 & 58, SB) - Nippon Modus 130 S
Taylormade Spider Tour (red) / Scotty Cameron Button Back Newport
Titleist Pro V1
Feeling sad and neglected: Taylormade P750 (4-PW) / Srixon 765 (4-PW) - Nippon Modus 3 130 S

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[quote name='DaCheap1' timestamp='1325543591' post='4018909']
Let the rough grow longer, tighten the fairways. Done.
[/quote]

So too would be a player like Jose Maria Olazabal; an average at best driver who would be on the back foot right out of the traps.

Some of the most universally respected and admired course designs in the world, like St Andrews, Royal Melbourne and Augusta National feature precisely the opposite of narrow fairways and long rough next to them. On those tracks you get winners like Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Seve, and Tiger Woods. Narrow fairways and rough? You get defensive, paint-by-numbers golf with players doing everything they can to hit fairways and with their natural games stifled - and you get Andy North and Scott Simpson winning.




Old Nike woods with blue shafts, Titleist 712Us and a bagful of 681s, two rusty old Vokeys, an Eye 2 L wedge and an Anser 2

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Distance doesnt affect scores. Putting, chipping, and growing up the rough affect scores. Weather affects scores.

One day you shot 75 and the next day your show 85 because it was really windy.

The Canadian open last year had a higher winning score than the US open because of course conditions even though it was a much shorter course.

Leave it as is, The pros will hit it far as they can because thats their job simple as that. Working out and technique have helped add distance just as much as technology.

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Limiting the ball beyond what they currently do is not the solution to the "Distance problem", if the tour would soften the fairways to what they would normally play at the total driving distance would go way down. Many pro's average over 300 in total distance now, but last year only one pro (J.B. Holmes) had an average carry of over 300 yards (311.9 yards, which is insane). All the pro's are hitting into fairways that are rock hard and very tightly cut. The could mow the grass into the players (like at Augusta) or simply water a little more in landing areas. If they firm up the greens scoring will rise too, if the tour thinks its a problem as well. Keep people thinking that tour issued equipment is almost the same as whats on the shelves (its what sells golf stuff), alter the course, make roughs longer, or thicker.

Limiting the ball hurts the amateur more than anything, especially with a handicap class based system. Could you imagine the guy at Golfsmith telling you, "I'm sorry we can't sell you these balls, based on your handicap you are not qualified to hit them..." casual players will walk away from the game. Could you imagine the effects of sand bagging if now handicap determined what kind of equipment you are allowed to play?!? People buy balls based on perception that they are the best ball in golf, not necessarily the best ball for them, while that mentality has changed slightly since the marketing invention of ball fitting.

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