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LIVE Q&A with Golf Digest on The Hot List 2012 - Friday, Jan 20, 1PM ET


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[quote name='#1Ballin' timestamp='1327080808' post='4124951']
[quote name='babynoob' timestamp='1326937468' post='4112959']
It seems that the Hot List always includes clubs from manufacturers everyone knows Nike, Callaway, Taylor Made, Mizuno, etc... Why doesn't Golf Digest do testing with more club manufacturers? Include clubs from Japan especially, there are clubs manufactured there that I would love to see go head to head with Callaway or Taylor Made. I am mostly talking about the irons like Miura, Akira, and others.
[/quote]

and this one.......
[/quote]


Our main mission is to evaluate clubs that are readily available in the U.S. But your idea is worthwhile for a future story in Golf Digest. I'll get to work on it.

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Ahahaha.....great response!!!!

[quote name='MikeSGD' timestamp='1327082609' post='4125135']
[quote name='The GreekGrind' timestamp='1326865738' post='4103947']
My question is about what didn't make the hot list.

The Callaway RAZR X Forged made the list last year, so I understand (disagreeably) why they wouldn't make it again this year.

But the Callaway RAZR X Musclebacks weren't on last year or this year. That surprises me a lot. Were they tested? What about them in your opinion, particularly in the performance category, kept them from being on the list this year?
[/quote]

OK, ready to get to work on your questions. It's just me, as my partner in crime is on the road doing some work for NBC today. The duties of fame, I guess.

Let's start with an easy one:

Since 2006, we've maintained that if you have a desire to make the game harder, then you obviously don't need the help of Golf Digest in recommending which golf clubs you should play. We do not believe there is significantly meaningful innovation in pure blade irons, certainly not by comparison to what's happening in the other iron categories. So you will not find the Callaway RAZR X Musclebacks, just like you won't find the Mizuno MP-69 or the Titleist MB (712) or any other pure blades on our list. My advice: If you're trying to decide which blade irons you should play this year, ask your agent.
[/quote]

Titleist TSi2 10, Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 6X, 45"

Titleist TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Red Velocore 7X, 43"

TaylorMade GAPR Mid 4, KBS

Titleist T100S, KBS C-Taper S+ 5-PW

Titleist SM8, 50F, 54S, 60D, TT S400 Custom 

Scotty Cameron Phantom X12, 35", Stability Tour


[url="https://www.instagram.com/dnice262626/"]https://www.instagram.com/dnice262626/[/url]

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Thanks for the response. For some reason, I tend to find myself drawn to more silver medals than golds. Maybe because sometimes they lack in innovation, maybe because they tend to look a little more classic, I don't know.

Do you find your low handicap testers drawn more to some of the lower ranking products based on look sound feel, and mid and high handicappers leeaning more towards a club based on performance? If not, what stands out the most to you as the main difference between you different handicap ranges, other than their scores?

Thanks

Taylormade M3 460 9.5*, Mitsubishi Kuro Kage Silver TiNi 60x
Tour Edge Exotics CB2 15* and 18*, Aldila Voodoo SNV8
Ping i210 4-PW, Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 105s
Ping Glide 2.0 50SS, 54WS, 58ES, DG S400 TI onyx
Scotty Cameron GoLo 3

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1212516-dsparobs-2015-bag/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...arobs-2015-bag/[/url]

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[quote name='riis11' timestamp='1327084110' post='4125307']
How is the editor's choice chosen? For example, the Mizuno MP-59 recevied category leader in 3 of 4 categories, yet it did not get the editor's choice nod?
[/quote]


Good question and common misconception. There are four editors who vote and debate together to determine the Hot List. A club that is awarded an Editor's Choice is just that: the single product that most resonated with the individual editor. Not necessarily the club that the editor hit the best, but the one that he or she thinks still sparkles after the voting has been done.

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Hi Mike - thanks for doing this....

Not sure if this was already asked/answered or not - but I'll ask it anyhow. All 5 of the categories you used to evaluate clubs this year were subjective. Have you ever considered reducing the subjectivity (feel and innovation being the most subjective) and use more quantifiable objective measures (for example, distance, ball speed, smash factorm etc. from iron byron on trackman)

Not to be disrespectful, the hot list is nothing more than a bunch of aggregated and scored opinions. That may be attractive to the masses, and that may be your objective, but it's generally not useful to someone wanting to be a truly educated consumer.

Ping G30 Tour 65
Callaway XR Pro 3 Wood
Callaway Xhot 3 and 4 Hybrid
Callaway XR 5-AW - Recoil 680 F4 shafts
Vokey 60 degree
STX Putter

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Quick ?: Will there be a Hotlist app again?

Titleist TSi2 10, Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 6X, 45"

Titleist TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Red Velocore 7X, 43"

TaylorMade GAPR Mid 4, KBS

Titleist T100S, KBS C-Taper S+ 5-PW

Titleist SM8, 50F, 54S, 60D, TT S400 Custom 

Scotty Cameron Phantom X12, 35", Stability Tour


[url="https://www.instagram.com/dnice262626/"]https://www.instagram.com/dnice262626/[/url]

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[quote name='dsparob' timestamp='1327084388' post='4125337']
Thanks for the response. For some reason, I tend to find myself drawn to more silver medals than golds. Maybe because sometimes they lack in innovation, maybe because they tend to look a little more classic, I don't know.

Do you find your low handicap testers drawn more to some of the lower ranking products based on look sound feel, and mid and high handicappers leeaning more towards a club based on performance? If not, what stands out the most to you as the main difference between you different handicap ranges, other than their scores?

Thanks
[/quote]


If there's one universal, it's that all our players, regardless of handicap, would take classic looks and shapes over non-traditional shapes. For example, it's very unusual for putters that are only offered in bizarre shapes to get a lot of love from our players. When it happens, we take notice. It is true that super-high handicaps can be motivated by performance, but we only use their evaluations in super game improvement irons. Not a lot of real classic shapes in that category, though.

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[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1327084846' post='4125395']
Are things pretty close across the board for all clubs tested or are there ever clubs that are poorly ranked by all/majority of the testers?
[/quote]


At the final stage, the opinions on products are generally favorable with few products being completely despised. The one exception might be Mallet Putters, where occasionally a product will receive 1s or 2s from many panelists in most of our rating questions. No, I'm not going to give you the names.

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[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1327084838' post='4125391']
How important is the "fitting" process in the Hotlist. Is everything just stock options?
[/quote]


Manufacturers are provided with all of our players specs in driver and irons and putter, as well as driver launch conditions with their current driver. They then can recommend and send specific clubs or fitting setups for our evaluations. Most manufacturers do not send separate clubs for each of our player panelists.

In terms of our voting process, we consider a company's process and commitment to fitting the vast majority of golfers an important element in determining our Innovation score.

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What's your favorite club that didn't make the Hot List this year?

As of  10/11/2021

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with Ventus Black 7X

13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

19 Degree Sub70 939 Pro with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5-GW Srixon Zx5 with Project X 6.5

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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[quote name='jabrch' timestamp='1327084714' post='4125373']
Hi Mike - thanks for doing this....

Not sure if this was already asked/answered or not - but I'll ask it anyhow. All 5 of the categories you used to evaluate clubs this year were subjective. Have you ever considered reducing the subjectivity (feel and innovation being the most subjective) and use more quantifiable objective measures (for example, distance, ball speed, smash factorm etc. from iron byron on trackman)

Not to be disrespectful, the hot list is nothing more than a bunch of aggregated and scored opinions. That may be attractive to the masses, and that may be your objective, but it's generally not useful to someone wanting to be a truly educated consumer.
[/quote]


See previous response regarding robot testing. I'm not sure the differences you seek are as dramatic or as useful in a broad way as you might think. Does an extra 1 mph of ballspeed matter? Maybe (not really, in my opinion). But how many tests would you need to run to be sure that such a difference exists every time for all golfers? (I maintain it's always going to be within the margin of error.)

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[quote name='Shaftology' timestamp='1327085768' post='4125459']
I know Demand is a low percentage of the evaluation but is this a "pre Hot List" demand factor?
[/quote]


We're not projecting the Demand score based on what it would be if it made the Hot List. We're asking a group of retailers, we're looking through industry retail reports, we're studying tour usage, we're scouring this website to get a sense of the interest and enthusiasm for a product and brand. Is there more interest in SCOR golf because of the Hot List now? Probably. But it's Demand score was based on what we saw going in to the Hot List deliberations, not what we thought might be the case two weeks after the issue hit newsstands.

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[quote name='MikeSGD' timestamp='1327085849' post='4125469']
[quote name='jabrch' timestamp='1327084714' post='4125373']
Hi Mike - thanks for doing this....

Not sure if this was already asked/answered or not - but I'll ask it anyhow. All 5 of the categories you used to evaluate clubs this year were subjective. Have you ever considered reducing the subjectivity (feel and innovation being the most subjective) and use more quantifiable objective measures (for example, distance, ball speed, smash factorm etc. from iron byron on trackman)

Not to be disrespectful, the hot list is nothing more than a bunch of aggregated and scored opinions. That may be attractive to the masses, and that may be your objective, but it's generally not useful to someone wanting to be a truly educated consumer.
[/quote]


See previous response regarding robot testing. I'm not sure the differences you seek are as dramatic or as useful in a broad way as you might think. Does an extra 1 mph of ballspeed matter? Maybe (not really, in my opinion). But how many tests would you need to run to be sure that such a difference exists every time for all golfers? (I maintain it's always going to be within the margin of error.)
[/quote]


Ok - so I never ran the tests - and never looked at anything out there. But if there really isn't a difference, and Driver X will perform virtually equal to Driver Y under similar circumstances, then GD could really break the news to it's readers... "Guys - there's very little difference between any of the main OEM's 2012 offerings in terms of performance."

Now THAT would be groundbreaking for a publication to say. I understand why publishers would be unsupportive of this statement - true or not.

I would like to see the 2012 drivers hit, side by side, sweet spot, heel, toe, high, low, inside out, outside in, steep, flat and see, if, as you say, it wouldn't matter and would be inside the margin of error. OEMs, however, wouldn't want to see this I assume. :-)

Thanks again Mike.

Ping G30 Tour 65
Callaway XR Pro 3 Wood
Callaway Xhot 3 and 4 Hybrid
Callaway XR 5-AW - Recoil 680 F4 shafts
Vokey 60 degree
STX Putter

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What about a shaft hotlist? It seems like shaft upgrades are one of the new focus spots on golf, so it would be nice to have a comprehensive guide... how you test all those shafts is a logistics issue i will leave in your capable hands... I'm just the idea man.

As of  10/11/2021

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with Ventus Black 7X

13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

19 Degree Sub70 939 Pro with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5-GW Srixon Zx5 with Project X 6.5

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1327085838' post='4125465']
Any plans to do an "all time" Hot List list, say regardless of category the top 10 clubs with highest scores in Hot List history? Would be cool to see any patterns or any particularly strong years.

Thanks for doing this Q&A btw, always enjoy the interaction and the Golf Digest Android App is great!
[/quote]


Sounds like a good project for one of our summer interns. Since we've gone to the current format, there's only been two products to be category leader in all four voting criteria in a single year. Both of them had the name Vokey attached to them.

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[quote name='Linkkingx' timestamp='1327084187' post='4125313']
Do you use the same brand ball for testing across the board or do you leave it up to the testers? If yes, what is the ball of choice and why was it chosen? Thanks.
[/quote]

We use a selection of multilayer tour balls from multiple brands in our testing. Multiple brands because we don't want our testers staring at the same logo all day long just in case there might be any subliminal effects.

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[quote name='MikeSGD' timestamp='1327082780' post='4125169']
[quote name='Skaffa77' timestamp='1326913552' post='4106971']
Just a comment. I'll give Golf Digest credit for doing a live Q&A with this audience. This could get brutal...

With that said, I rarely see implementable suggestions with all the critism we give. I might recommend that Golf Digest create a thread requesting constructive suggestions....basically how GolfWRX members would improve the selection/review process. They might be able to implement some feedback...

My question...outside of having a panel of judges for the human scores, would Golf Digest conduct and publish independent club testing with static variables on a machine (like an Iron Byron) for club results on the manufacturer's basic retail offering (stock shafts and settings)? Center shots, toe shots, heel shots...show distance, trajectory, dispersion, spin rates, launch angle...etc.

I like the human element in the reviews, but I would also love to see actual testing results that reflect the performance of a driver, iron, putter.
[/quote]

We conduct robot testing on drivers, stock setups, center, toe, heel, high and low. If we thought those raw numbers would help the majority of our readers, we would publish them. But just like I think publishing the stopping distance of five cars in the same category confuses the issue more than defines it, so, too, with a robot test. I like what players say more than what robots do. That's why people are a bigger part of our process than relative spin rates. If you need more than what we provide, go see a qualified fitter and get on a launch monitor with all the drivers you're considering. The differences you see in that scenario are valid and meaningful to you. What we do is help you determine the drivers that should be in your personal test.
[/quote]

First, I appreciate the feedback and information. Like I said before, this can be a brutally honest audience and it takes quite a bit of courage to come here and discuss the Hot List which is often "hot" subject. With that said, I'll offer some feedback and you can do what you want with it.

You do have a population of avid golfers (much like you see on this site) that would value that information. By continuing to exclude that data, you continue to ignore the complaints and requests of those who purchase and read your magazine. Will it appeal to all readers? No. But it will provide valued information to those avid golfers who read your magazine (many of whom will purchase the products that your advertisers pay to advertise in the magazine). What I'm trying to say is...it's a win-win. You still have your basic write up which appeals to a less "avid/technical" golfer audience and you have the raw data to support your Hot List which adds substance for your avid golfers.

I do agree that the human element is also valuable, but if all I followed was what people say, I would still think all domestic cars are inferior in quality to the top Japanese auto makers.

GolfWRX is a very avid group and I realize we are not the majority, but I also have to think that Golf Digest teamed up with this site for a reason...

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[quote name='Myherobobhope' timestamp='1327086233' post='4125505']
What about a shaft hotlist? It seems like shaft upgrades are one of the new focus spots on golf, so it would be nice to have a comprehensive guide... how you test all those shafts is a logistics issue i will leave in your capable hands... I'm just the idea man.
[/quote]


We have been working on this idea for a number of years and we believe Gene Parente and the team at Golf Laboratories (who does all of our robot testing) may be on to some technology that could help us characterize shafts to fit certain swings (angular acceleration and momentum, or something to that effect). We may be a year or two away yet, but we are closer today than we've been before.

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I think the all time list would be great to do and a FULL Hot list publication, and I think that would be a great idea for the 10th anniversary issue!!! I think it would be great to bring back some of the old clubs (though manufacturers probably wouldn't agree) and have the testers compare against the new stuff, and see (regardless of innovation) what they put up top in performance and look sound feel, I think it would be eye opening!! Ten years of club tech, head to head!!!

Taylormade M3 460 9.5*, Mitsubishi Kuro Kage Silver TiNi 60x
Tour Edge Exotics CB2 15* and 18*, Aldila Voodoo SNV8
Ping i210 4-PW, Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 105s
Ping Glide 2.0 50SS, 54WS, 58ES, DG S400 TI onyx
Scotty Cameron GoLo 3

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1212516-dsparobs-2015-bag/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...arobs-2015-bag/[/url]

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Hi Mike,

Thanks for joining us today.

Mid and high handicappers are encouraged to play GI and SGI clubs, yet when it comes to wedges the only reviews we see are for "players" wedges. At the same time a number of manufacturers include wedges in their GI and SGI irons sets. For example, the Ping G20s and the RBZs.

Why aren't more reviews done of these wedges and why aren't the mid and high handicapped golfers encouraged more to play the wedges in those sets?

Thank you,

Sean

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[quote name='Skaffa77' timestamp='1327086507' post='4125529']
[quote name='MikeSGD' timestamp='1327082780' post='4125169']
[quote name='Skaffa77' timestamp='1326913552' post='4106971']
Just a comment. I'll give Golf Digest credit for doing a live Q&A with this audience. This could get brutal...

With that said, I rarely see implementable suggestions with all the critism we give. I might recommend that Golf Digest create a thread requesting constructive suggestions....basically how GolfWRX members would improve the selection/review process. They might be able to implement some feedback...

My question...outside of having a panel of judges for the human scores, would Golf Digest conduct and publish independent club testing with static variables on a machine (like an Iron Byron) for club results on the manufacturer's basic retail offering (stock shafts and settings)? Center shots, toe shots, heel shots...show distance, trajectory, dispersion, spin rates, launch angle...etc.

I like the human element in the reviews, but I would also love to see actual testing results that reflect the performance of a driver, iron, putter.
[/quote]

We conduct robot testing on drivers, stock setups, center, toe, heel, high and low. If we thought those raw numbers would help the majority of our readers, we would publish them. But just like I think publishing the stopping distance of five cars in the same category confuses the issue more than defines it, so, too, with a robot test. I like what players say more than what robots do. That's why people are a bigger part of our process than relative spin rates. If you need more than what we provide, go see a qualified fitter and get on a launch monitor with all the drivers you're considering. The differences you see in that scenario are valid and meaningful to you. What we do is help you determine the drivers that should be in your personal test.
[/quote]

First, I appreciate the feedback and information. Like I said before, this can be a brutally honest audience and it takes quite a bit of courage to come here and discuss the Hot List which is often "hot" subject. With that said, I'll offer some feedback and you can do what you want with it.

You do have a population of avid golfers (much like you see on this site) that would value that information. By continuing to exclude that data, you continue to ignore the complaints and requests of those who purchase and read your magazine. Will it appeal to all readers? No. But it will provide valued information to those avid golfers who read your magazine (many of whom will purchase the products that your advertisers pay to advertise in the magazine). What I'm trying to say is...it's a win-win. You still have your basic write up which appeals to a less "avid/technical" golfer audience and you have the raw data to support your Hot List which adds substance for your avid golfers.

I do agree that the human element is also valuable, but if all I followed was what people say, I would still think all domestic cars are inferior in quality to the top Japanese auto makers.

GolfWRX is a very avid group and I realize we are not the majority, but I also have to think that Golf Digest teamed up with this site for a reason...
[/quote]

Good to know. If I thought that information was definitive and useful, we would publish it. But I wonder if the possibility exists that the information you're requesting might create differences that don't really exist or aren't particularly meaningful. I know Golf Digest's ranking of America's 100 Greatest Courses breaks down scoring in several categories and separates courses by hundredths of a point. Do those differences really matter? In my opinion, no. But some folks think they do. In my world, that's just writing down numbers for the sake of writing down numbers. What matters is whether you made the top 100 or not, or in our case whether you made the Hot List or not.

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[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1327087157' post='4125605']
I noticed this was the first time Scratch Golf did not win Gold, much less a medal at all, in 2 years. Can you give us insight why they went from Gold to not on the list?
[/quote]


Other companies scored much higher in Innovation with their new products (more work in improving groove and face technologies, for example). The Scratch wedge that made the Hot List two years in a row is still a fine product.

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