Lie angle to help with consistent "toe" hits

[DonD]

Which way to adjust?

This is a simple question that I now doesn't really have a simple answer, but I'm looking for one anyway...with my irons, I consistently hit the ball out toward the toe of the club. Sometimes it's a little bit toward the toe, sometimes it's way out almost on the toe - but when I say consistently, I mean almost every time...I understand that there are probably any number of "swing flaws" that could be causing this, however, I am clearly putting a pretty consistent swing on the ball, because I am getting a repeating result...just not the one I want. Could an adjustment to the lie angle of the irons help? If so, which way would you adjust the when contact is out toward the toe...flatter, or more upright?

[Dizz]

Unfortunately I don't think its a lie angle issue. What's your ball flight typically?

[dwboston]

How about club length? Consistently out on the toe could indicate that the clubs are too short, but it's as likely to be a swing issue.

[acpar72]

It would be worth bending them upright too

[DonD]

I have seen references to club length in other threads about this issue (face contact out on the toe)...I have to admit, I don't undersatnd that...if you are hitting every club out on the toe, how can length be the issue? Obviously, a 4 iron is significantly longer than a 9 iron, so why would you hit both out on the toe consistently? If it's about length relative to lie angle, then wouldn't a lie adjustment be just as likely a fix? Not arguing here, I really don't understand how club length could be at fault...by the way, I'm just about 5'8", so I can't imagine needing longer than standard clubs.

As for ball flight, my ball flight is normally pretty straight (just short and not "solid" when I hit it way out on the toe)...when I do miss, it's usually left.

[quote name='dwboston' timestamp='1327895501' post='4176465']
How about club length? Consistently out on the toe could indicate that the clubs are too short, but it's as likely to be a swing issue.
[/quote]

[DonD]

So, acpar72...you're saying that contact out toward the toe might mean the clubs are too flat?

[quote name='acpar72' timestamp='1327895754' post='4176485']
It would be worth bending them upright too
[/quote]

[scoop79]

I'd read through the iron fitting on the fitting works site before bending your irons [url="http://www.titleist.com/golf-club-fitting/"]fitting works[/url]

Too flat usually means a face pointing right of target, bending upright is going to mean further left.

Sounds like a swing issue. Going for a lesson will be more beneficial and cost effective than tinkering with your clubs based on guesswork

[robert horneman]

Your situation could be length, lie and/or swing.
Your heigth 5' 8" is not a factor. Your wrist to floor measurment is more important.
I would start by putting impact tape on your 5 iron then hit a minumun of 10 shots. if the majority of strikes are toward the toe i would suggest adding 1/2" to the length. This will cause the toe to be more upright. Then with impact tape , hit another 10 shots. Again if the majority of your strikes are out on the toe , then I would look at a swing fix.

[Awalkspoiled]

You can bend the irons upright, which will stand you a little closer to the ball, which MAY help, but it may also increase any tendency to come over the top which will make things much worse. Toe impact is usually caused by two things - your shoulders flying open somewhat early - before your hips have cleared, and/or your left arm retaining more bend than most through the downswing. Excessive wrist-tension can also play a part, but then you'd likely also be hitting thin.

Your setup is what I'd address first: At impact, for most people, the shoulders are slightly more open than they were at address, pulling the club away from the ball, but in turn, the arm/club is in more of a straight line from shoulder to clubface, putting the face back square on the ball. Guys with a consistent toe impact don't have good balance between those two tendencies. The easiest and smartets thing to do is just to set up with the ball pretty much right on the hosel. It looks like you're going to hit a hosel-rocket but if this tendency is really ingrained you won't - you'll just hit the ball dead flush. You won't believe what pure contact does for your launch and spin, to say nothing of feel. How far toward the hosel you'll need to set up will vary, and be careful NOT to do it when you have the ball way back in your stance for a knockdown or punch shot.

[Nessism]

You might want to go to the Ping website and work though their Webfit system. This will put you in the ball park as far as club length and lie angle is concern. My guess is you should be using standard length clubs, unless you have unusually short arms for your height.

BTW, I hit the ball out on the toe a lot of the time too. For me the problem is I'm holding my hands too high; swing plane getting jacked up. I got me some work to do.

[Golfwolf]

It is possible that it is a swing issue caused by an over the top move (swinging out to in), I used to hit my shots towards the toe also and that was my cause.

[crussogolf]

I recently was having the exact same problem, literally hitting everything off the toe of every club wedge - driver. I messed around with lie angle (+2 upright) and continued to have the same issue. I finally went back to basics and checked grip, stance, setup, ball position etc.. Long story short, my setup was jacked up. Feet and shoulders square, hips open, which was causing me to come out of my spine angle on the downswing. I swear, every time my swing is off, it is an issue with my setup position. Might be worth working on your setup position just to see...

[Onyx Z]

i was simply set up too far from the ball. I'm no expert and my swing is far from perfect, more like the opposite of perfect, but i moved a tad closer to the ball, almost to where it feels awkward and i started hitting them flush.

personally, i think this is kind of a band aid fix though. my down swing path is severely in-to-out (not too keen on the the swing plane terminology, the grip is pointing to the right of the target when the shaft is horizontal on the downswing) , but my backswing path is fairly in plane. im sure my swing looks like a figure 8 looking down the line. and if i purposely swing out-to-in, i usually hit it flush but it is very awkward and feels like the ball is going to go way left.

[StuartRS]

Had the same problem for a while, lie correction did not fix it.

Same as above, I had gradually got futher from the ball at address, everything was on the toe side at impact. I now stand with good balance and posture (not reaching), elbows now feel fairly tight to body at address. Can't miss the sweetspot at the moment. (not a bad problem to have)

[acpar72]

[quote name='DonD' timestamp='1327895959' post='4176501']
So, acpar72...you're saying that contact out toward the toe might mean the clubs are too flat?

[quote name='acpar72' timestamp='1327895754' post='4176485']
It would be worth bending them upright too
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes. Just put a piece of tape on the sole, swing on the deck or off a board and check impact. It will probably show impact on the toe.

[Hifade]

What everyone is saying has some truth to it, but I agree with you.....the lie angle may affect it as well. Here's why.....I recently went to a new set of irons. They were from a different manufacturer but were set to the exact same specs as the irons I had played for 4 years, and the ones I had played for 5 years prior to that. In addition, the shafts were identical...meaning same brand and they were the same flex and same length. So, long story short......same shafts, same flex, same length, same loft and lie on the irons and same swing weight. Here's the kicker; every shot I'd hit with the new irons were more towards the toe. I'd go back to my set and I'd grease them. I'd go from iron to iron in the new set and I'd get the same "toeish" results, then back to my old set and flush 'em. Talk about frustrating. I even yanked one of the shafts from my original set and put it in the new set thinking that even though the shafts were the same.....they're still not all the same, right? Well, same results. WTF???

In the end, what I discovered is that different heads react differently throughout the swing. Due to the head design, the new set was actually toeing down just a bit more and causing me to hit them just enough on the toe to be uncomfortable. With the toe digging ever so slightly, due to the toeing down effect, I bent them a 1.5* upright and found their interaction with the turf and my contact point much better at impact. What I didn't like is that now they looked too upright at address to my eye. That was something I couldn't get past so I ended up getting rid of the new clubs and going back to my old set. The moral of the story is, while every spec can be set up identically, sometimes they just don't fit because clubs are different, set to set and OEM to OEM. For the record, my old set was a set of '07 JDM r7 Forged by TM with the set before that being a set of tour issue 300 Forged. The set I was trying to move into was a set of Mizuno 800 Pros so they were all forged cavity backs. Interesting enough, a close friend made the switch before I did and he fought the same issues with the Mizzy's.

[GC70]

I had this problem for years! It was a simple fix for me. i use to play my irons 2* flat. my hands where realy low and i would bring the club back to far to the inside and too flat. I moved in closer to the ball stood up more and let my hands hang natauly. nothing but center hits! good luck!

[Barto78]

[quote name='DonD' timestamp='1327893013' post='4176185']
This is a simple question that I now doesn't really have a simple answer, but I'm looking for one anyway...with my irons, I [i]consistently[/i] hit the ball out toward the toe of the club. Sometimes it's a little bit toward the toe, sometimes it's way out almost on the toe - but when I say consistently, I mean almost every time...I understand that there are probably any number of "swing flaws" that could be causing this, however, I am clearly putting a pretty consistent swing on the ball, because I am getting a repeating result...just not the one I want. Could an adjustment to the lie angle of the irons help? If so, which way would you adjust the when contact is out toward the toe...flatter, or more upright?
[/quote]

I have the same issue. I went from 2° upright to 4° upright. My angle of attack was a bit too steep and thus this resulted in shots on the toe. To combat this problem, you'll either need to adjust the lie angle or flatten out your back swing.

[magnus7319]

[quote name='Golfwolf' timestamp='1327930188' post='4177599']
It is possible that it is a swing issue caused by an over the top move (swinging out to in), I used to hit my shots towards the toe also and that was my cause.
[/quote]

I agree. This would be worth investigating.

[Jake65]

Go see a fitter who is also a teacher. A static fitting will not provide your answer, nor will bending the lie angle 1-2-3 degrees. It's either club length or operator error, not lie angle.

[ForTourUseOnly]

Get on a lie board and find out

[kg92lefty]

its club length or your swing. lie angle wont do much.

[dieselG]

Let me tell you what cause me to catch them on the toe. Its usually one of 2 things. I'll bet you one of these (probably B) is your culprit. I dont think bending your lie is gonna fix this, but YMMV.

A) Over the top swing. Cutting out to in cause the club to cut across the ball and catch it on the toe. Weak fade, or a weak pull is the result.
B) (MOST LIKELY) - standing too far away from the ball - "reaching". This can be super simple to diagnose. Address the ball normally, let the club rest on the ground. Take your right hand off the club (or left if you are a leftie) and let it go completely limp and hang straight down. If it swings closer to your body, you are reaching for the ball. If you are reaching for it, even with a perfect swing, the ball is going to be too far away and you will catch it on the toe.

If I start finding the toe, this is the first thing I check.

[edteergolf]

Either club length or club path. Out to in causes heel strikes and in to out causes toe strikes. The lie angle has to be really off to cause off center contact.

[juliette91]

[quote name='magnus7319' timestamp='1327955568' post='4179757']
[quote name='Golfwolf' timestamp='1327930188' post='4177599']
It is possible that it is a swing issue caused by an over the top move (swinging out to in), I used to hit my shots towards the toe also and that was my cause.
[/quote]

I agree. This would be worth investigating.
[/quote]

I think this is the direction this thread advice should take, flattening the swing seems a better idea than having clubs adjusted to fit a flawed address or swing. This same thing is happening to me right now, many toe hits, but tape on the iron and hits on the driving range don't show toe hits. On course it's different. Would like to hear others' comments about how to flatten the swing without dramatic changes.

[jimb]

I think it is club length rather than lie angle. The shorter the club the more pronounced the toe hits will be. Just my $0.02.

[dlovage]

Reviving this super old post because I’m going through something similar…

 

I did a through lie check on a Ping lie board just now and was extremely consistent in hits towards the toe. The guy told me I needed 2* flatter lie. Wouldn’t it be 2* up??

[pingfool]

1 hour ago, dlovage said:

Reviving this super old post because I’m going through something similar…

 

I did a through lie check on a Ping lie board just now and was extremely consistent in hits towards the toe. The guy told me I needed 2* flatter lie. Wouldn’t it be 2* up??

authorized ping fitter starts with length. Depending on your path - if you’re out off the toe I would have given you 1/2” longer before 

diagnosing a lie change. 
answering your question. Yes you could be 2up

[whiteshark]

This toe hit problem had just happened to me with my new set of irons.  I never had this problem with my other sets.  I put face tape on my new irons and every shot on every iron (5 through pw) was about 1/2 inch toward the toe.  No matter what I tried, nothing seemed to help.  One day on the range warming up before a round, the assistant pro comes up to me and asked why i was lining up the ball toward the toe.  I had no idea I was doing this.  The shape on the new irons through my perspective off.  Once I lined up the ball with the actual center of the club, my problem disappeared.  Have you checked your ball position relative to the club face?

[BMC]

It's a swing path issue.  Make sure your shoulders are square at impact, not open.  They'll open after impact.  This took me years to figure out.

Was a toe hitter and this fixed it and some other issues.