Cleveland Classics Persimmon

[BarneyRubble]

Models?

I apologize of this is the wrong forum.

I was wondering if there was some sort of document which listed the various Cleveland Classics Persimmon models offered during their production years. I highly doubt if there is anything as well done as the MacGregor Catalog but something along those lines. I own a few of the persimmon drivers and three woods but from time to time a model will popup on Ebay that I never knew existed. I'm interested primarily in what set the models apart from each other. For example, I've read the RC 85 was Roger Cleveland's take on the MacGregor M85.

Thank you in advance.

Matt

[Maxwell]

[size="4"]BR - There is a club identification book out there from [/size][url="http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_GCID4"][size="4"]Golfworks.[/size][/url][size="4"] I have a copy and it has been fairly accurate and helpful. Hope this helps - Max[/size]

[freddiec]

I think the 4 popular models in the 80s were..

RC85, Mahogany stained with white /black/white insert. Copy of MacGregor M85
RC75, Similar to RC85, but had white/red/white insert, similar to Mac M75W Eye O Matic set, slighly smaller head than RC85
TC15, copy of the Armour Mac SS1W set that had the firing pin insert
RC69 Copy of the Mac 693, had a red solid insert.

There were a few other models, which were not as popular.

[BarneyRubble]

Excellent! Thank you gentlemen.

BTW - Great video! I just love persimmon and balata.

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1328288472' post='4205625']
I think the 4 popular models in the 80s were..

RC85, Mahogany stained with white /black/white insert. Copy of MacGregor M85
RC75, Similar to RC85, but had white/red/white insert, similar to Mac M75W Eye O Matic set, slighly smaller head than RC85
TC15, copy of the Armour Mac SS1W set that had the firing pin insert
RC69 Copy of the Mac 693, had a red solid insert.

There were a few other models, which were not as popular.
[/quote]

[Blade Junkie]

OP - good topic.

Thanks to Max and Fred for the reponses, as I had been wondering the same thing myself. I have emailed Golfworks to see if they will ship a copy of that book to the UK for me.

Visually I think I prefer the RC-85 to the others ... I would like to add one of these (and matching fairway woods) to my collection at some point!

[stixman]

Really helpful post by Maxwell re the I.D. guide, thanks. I've got loads of stuff on hickory but nothing on later steel shafted gear. It is on order and I await with bated breath.

[Maxwell]

[size="3"]I bet you won't find these Roger Cleveland persimmon woods in any club identification books. I'm fairly certain they were early Clevelands. One is a RC53 and the other is a RC55. Both are drivers.
Max[/size]

[bma725]

[quote name='Maxwell' timestamp='1328364274' post='4211469']
[size="3"]I bet you won't find these Roger Cleveland persimmon woods in any club identification books. I'm fairly certain they were early Clevelands. One is a RC53 and the other is a RC55. Both are drivers.
Max[/size]
[/quote]

The RC-53 isn't particularly early. Cleveland started making their persimmon line in 1981, The RC-53 first came out in 1984. That particular head, given that it has a bore through, is a 1985 model. Odd thing is, that sole plate doesn't seem to fit with that head. Both years they were made(1984 and 1985) they came with sole plates that said "The Cleveland Classic" not just "Cleveland Classic".

[bma725]

Figure I can add some more since I was a fairly big collector of Cleveland persimmon before getting rid of all of them a couple years back....still seem to have the pics from the Ebay auctions on my hard drive though, sorry for the crappy quality. Most everyone has seen the RC-75, RC-85, and RC-69(3), those were really the most popular models. But here's a couple of the lesser known heads....

AL-44....pretty cool looking graphite face insert, with the face finished the same color as the head. This look was also done with a slightly different shape for the "Big AL" model.
[attachment=1009505:PA140040.JPG] [attachment=1009507:PA140042.JPG] [attachment=1009509:PA140046.JPG]

RC-945 Limited Edition....most came with a standard Cleveland Classic Soleplate, this has the rare Cleveland Limited one:
[attachment=1009515:PA140030.JPG] [attachment=1009519:PA140032.JPG] [attachment=1009513:PA140027.JPG] [attachment=1009521:PA140034.JPG]

Jumbo...Roger's take on the LFF:
[attachment=1009527:PA140023.JPG] [attachment=1009529:PA140025.JPG] [attachment=1009525:PA140021.JPG]

10th Anniversary Edition:
[attachment=1009537:DSCF0818.JPG][attachment=1009539:DSCF0819.JPG][attachment=1009535:DSCF0817.JPG]

[freddiec]

Here is the only Cleveland persimmon I own. Its a really nice RC85. This has a factory installed Apex 4 shaft. I'm assuming it was factory installed, because the screw is still in place on the back of the neck. I was always under the impression the models that said "The Cleveland Classic" as opposed to just "C. C" were earlier models. The heads to me always seemed a little bit bigger as well. BMA, any idea on that?

[bma725]

Unfortunately, Cleveland didn't really do a good job of standardizing their naming structure. At various points in prior years they used Cleveland Classic, Cleveland Classic USA, Cleveland Classics USA, The Cleveland Classic, and The Cleveland Classic USA as their sole stamp. In some cases they even switched the stamp for a certain line depending upon whether it was a driver or fairway wood, and if you got a custom built one all bets were off...you might even get a Cleveland Limited sole plate on a non-limited edition head just to achieve the right swing weight. So in theory at least, the heads that are stamped The Cleveland Classic or The Cleveland Classic USA are the earlier productions...but that's not true for every model. In some cases they were still making heads that said TCC while other models produced in the same year only had the CC. It wasn't until 1988 when everything became Cleveland Classic USA, and then 1989 when they changed the company name to Cleveland Classics USA that all the clubs produced in a given year had the same stamp.

[freddiec]

BMA, thats some interesting information. Thanks for providing that. Its surprising how a company would not standardize on sole plates. The RC85 I have is one of the nicest persimmons I've ever hit, its very long and really solid, with the Apex 4 shaft, its got a great feel.

[teevons]

here are few more Cleveland to have a look at, some are new ,never finished heads. A couple I really like are the Crenshaw and Bryron Nelson 68.3. One I could not find I know I have is a black Dunlevy ,made after the former long drive champion

[Old Pro]

Teevons,
I think the black model you reference is the Dunaway model. Black head, white six screw insert with firing pin. I have one, and I will try to post a pic ture when I can.
Keitth

[teevons]

You Are right, I knew it had Dun in there!!


[quote name='Old Pro' timestamp='1328422064' post='4216481']
Teevons,
I think the black model you reference is the Dunaway model. Black head, white six screw insert with firing pin. I have one, and I will try to post a pic ture when I can.
Keitth
[/quote]

[bma725]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1328403088' post='4214673']
BMA, thats some interesting information. Thanks for providing that. Its surprising how a company would not standardize on sole plates. The RC85 I have is one of the nicest persimmons I've ever hit, its very long and really solid, with the Apex 4 shaft, its got a great feel.
[/quote]

It wasn't just sole plates, it was actual product names. For example, when it first came out in 1984, the TC-15 had a pecan finish and graphite insert with a 4 screw diamond pattern... which almost no one has seen. For 5 years after that they produced another head called the TC-15 that most people know with a completely different shape, completely different finish and a multicolor phenolic insert rather than the graphite. In some part, I think that's what you had to expect in those days when looking at a company that was just starting out.

[freddiec]

Teevons,
You've got some real beauties. The Ben Crenshaw model is on my collector's bucket list. I've seen some really nice ones on the auction , but never bidded. I really like your Tour Action model, the pic with 2, the one on the right looks great. A good friend of mine, a good club pro in the mid 80s was at the PGA show and stopped at the Cleveland booth. The rep had a RC85 there that had the most beautiful stain and head, he was able to take it off the rep right there and then, and played it for a few years. It was the best one I had ever seen. They made great looking woods.

[teevons]

I found the Cleveland Dunaway. It was made after the Long Driving Champion in the 80's , Great looking Velocitized insert 1 3/4 face





[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1328449452' post='4217237']
Teevons,
You've got some real beauties. The Ben Crenshaw model is on my collector's bucket list. I've seen some really nice ones on the auction , but never bidded. I really like your Tour Action model, the pic with 2, the one on the right looks great. A good friend of mine, a good club pro in the mid 80s was at the PGA show and stopped at the Cleveland booth. The rep had a RC85 there that had the most beautiful stain and head, he was able to take it off the rep right there and then, and played it for a few years. It was the best one I had ever seen. They made great looking woods.
[/quote]

[weeicemon]

I always thought the satin finish on the Byron Nelson 68.3 Cleveland woods was one of the best, ever.

[Old Pro]

Teevons,
My Dunaway model is slightly different than yours. My insert is all white, 6 screw, with the firing pin. It says "Oil Hardenned" on the toe stamp, and the crown stamp says "Dunaway" with the large D. I will try to post a pic when I get my new camera going.
Keith

[teevons]

Yes, I used to have a set of those with the crown stamp also. No telling how many different models there were of Dunaway??




[quote name='Old Pro' timestamp='1328640030' post='4231609']
Teevons,
My Dunaway model is slightly different than yours. My insert is all white, 6 screw, with the firing pin. It says "Oil Hardenned" on the toe stamp, and the crown stamp says "Dunaway" with the large D. I will try to post a pic when I get my new camera going.
Keith
[/quote]

[rex235]

Let me post these two Cleveland Classics-

The RH TC-15, and the LH TC-15 models. The RH models have the butterfly soleplate, while the LH models were offered ONLY with the sweepback soleplate.
Have the 1,3, and 4 models in both RH and LH
[attachment=1017287:100_9033.JPG]

[attachment=1017291:100_9037.JPG]
Note the LH model shown also has a drill thru hosel, which was the first to be done for the LH Cleveland models.
One of the Gonzales brothers confirmed this by phone, though it's been over 20 years since I spoke to Cleveland directly.

[dalehead]

I have a RC85 and TC15 driver and a RC69 3 wood. Nothing special so I won't bother posting pictures.

But one bit of trivia. Payne Stewart played a RC85 driver in the mid and late 80's.

[SteveNZ]

Yes, I used to have a set of those with the crown stamp also. No telling how many different models there were of Dunaway??

 

 

 

 

Teevons,

My Dunaway model is slightly different than yours. My insert is all white, 6 screw, with the firing pin. It says "Oil Hardenned" on the toe stamp, and the crown stamp says "Dunaway" with the large D. I will try to post a pic when I get my new camera going.

Keith

 

Bringing this old one back! Just remembered the Dunaway I have. Another different model from those featured here...

 

[Texsport]

I have a Cleveland Classics 3-wood designed by Roger Cleveland with consultation from Dave Wood that was Cleveland's attempt to replace Ben's long used MacGregor M75 3-wood when Ben was signed by Cleveland. (This information from Dave Wood who is a long time friend of Ben's, having made several clubs for him at Wood Bros)

 

Stamped BC1 on sole. White/Black/White insert. Original DG shaft.

 

Even more interesting is that the club was later owned and used by Payne Stewart - 2 major champions - same club.

 

Texsport

[Les Strokes]

That Dunaway is sweet

[rex235]

Texsport-

 

+1

 

Update- No longer in possession of the RH Cleveland Classic TC-15 1,3,4 models.

 

Roger Clevelands staff at the time said the reason ALL the LH models from Cleveland had sweepback soleplates was....

 

"The MacGregor Tommy Armour 693 model, considered by many the best persimmon model ever made, has a sweepback soleplate. We tried to honor that classic tradition."

 

Of course, we later found out the drill-thru hosel was NOT part of the LH Cleveland Classic design (take a look at Teevons LH photo), but is was a feature listed in the Cleveland catalog.

 

So we asked for the drill-thru hosel, and our LH Cleveland TC-15s (1,3,4) have it.

[Texsport]

My Crenshaw/Stewart 3-wood is an RC85 with bore thru hosel and butterfly sole plate.

 

Texsport

[rex235]

My Crenshaw/Stewart 3-wood is an RC85 with bore thru hosel and butterfly sole plate.

 

Texsport

 

Tex-

 

Nearly all RH Cleveland Classics have the drill-thru hosels(*). The Classics like the RC85, Crenshaw, Nelson, and Dunleavy have butterfly soleplates with 5 screws.

Some RH models have sweepback soleplates.

 

 

No LH Cleveland Classics have drill-thru hosels,[*], and ALL have sweepback soleplates.

 

(*) Steel shafts

 

[*}Unless specifically requested.

[Texsport]

Yep, I was just adding info I left out of my 1st post.

 

Texsport