Carrying vs. Pushing; Legitamate Research

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='Shiram' timestamp='1347370407' post='5622473']
To me it is a matter of personal preference. I push but I carried for years (as most people who push did). When I carried I definitely felt some bag related fatigue 16 holes in but that's not the reason I switched. I switched mostly because [b]I got tired of taking the damn bag on and off 50+ times a round[/b]. It's a whole hassle that goes away with the push cart.

With a carry bag you approach your ball, take off one strap, take off two straps, set bag down, select your club. (or sometimes you grab your club while approaching the shot) Then you put your club away, pick up the bag, put on one strap, put on two straps.

With the push cart you approach your shot and select your club. When you've hit you put your club back and walk away. Fewer steps. Sometimes you have to turn on the cart break...

I push vs. ride in a cart for the same reason. To me riding in a cart (while sometimes fun) is usually just one more thing to worry about on the course. Where should I park? Is it 90* today? Is that a cart path? Walking is so much simpler and pushing is simpler than carrying.

Something to consider when you get advice from folks on carry vs. push... most if not all of the pushers probably used to carry regularly - most likely for years. Most of the folks who carry only and are anti push probably have only used a push cart a couple of times.

Again though, it's all personal preference. If taking the bag on and off 50+ times a round doesn't bug you and you'd rather carry - get a light bag and go to town. I've never met anyone who really cared one way or the other how someone else walks (push vs. carry).
[/quote]

That and the constant, annoying "clack, clack" of the clubs. Not to mention the extra bag chatter on the irons. And I am NOT using iron covers. (Gotta draw the line somewhere with this ego stuff!)

[cxx]

I switched to a trike from walking last year and it has been a great improvement. There are a couple things that I had noticed that have not been brought up yet. First, carrying ruined more of my shirts and sweaters that I ever thought was possible. The friction of the bag and straps, over time, ground whatever into the shirts and pilled up the sweaters. This problem has been completely eliminated by pushing.

I play several hilly courses and the steep hills can be harder pushing. You still have to move the weight up the hill you just have to add the weight of the cart when pushing. Overall though, the level of effort is much less with the cart and I don't have to be obsessive about the weight of the bag.

I like the cartoon above. The wheel was invented a long time ago. Might as well take advantage.

[RJ11]

I'm not of fan of carrying my bag to the range. Let alone a round.

[sharkhark]

I push.other than missing the ease of putting crap away after round being faster if carrying there is no other benefit.
Push cart:
Easier on back I no longer fade on last 3 or 4 holes.
I no longer have to limit amount of water I Carry...much less number of balls, extra clothes etc etc.

Ego doesn't come into thought for me.its so common place now that nobody gives it a second glance or thought.

Get a good cart like clicgear. Carry your extra balls, cell phone and wallet and GPS close at hand in the storage cubby.
Umbrella in bag vs carrying you only bring if absolutely necessary.
That reminds me...umbrella attached pushing clicgear hands free.another bonus.
Still burn calories as its close to carrying.

Just do it.

[Nessism]

Bumping this back up since I'm a big trolley fan. Started using one back when I first started playing, in the early 1980's. Bought a pull cart that originally came with a square bag. Dang thing must have been 20 years old when I bought it, and I used it for a 20 more years. Bought a Clicgear a year ago and it's the best golf purchase I've made in ages. As some others have mentioned, bringing along a bunch of water and such is way easier with a trolley.

As a change of pace I recently took the Hoofer out. It was hot out and I was sweating way more than normal, when using the push cart. My back was more tired too. Thinking of selling my almost new Hoofer after that miserable experience.

[OldGolfer87]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1345141853' post='5483734']
[quote name='johl' timestamp='1345139497' post='5483510']
if your bag is weighing more than 20% of your body weight then you carry too much stuff. i don't see how carrying will cause compression issues in your back? I'm in the military and we always carry weights in excess of 50kg day after day, week after week in some instances, and there are never any injuries as a direct result of the weight. the only time people get injured is when they use the wrong technique of do something stupid.
as long as you are carrying the bag properly you will be fine, but if pushing gets you playing more golf, then push
[/quote]

This +1. Millions of service men and women, not to mention recreational hikers and campers, carry far more weight on a daily basis than even a heavy carry bag. These are adults, of course. That AJGA study focuses on children whose spines are still developing. I would think the rotation of the golf swing is more likely create a back injury that the few extra pounds of carrying.

That said, I have used a push cart in the past when I was dealing with a rotator cuff impingement issue. I could swing and play golf, but the weight of the bag and reaching behind me to shoulder it was making the impingement worse. So I pushed for a while, but I can't say I noticed much appreciable reduction in end of round fatigue.
[/quote]



[b]I read you comment about rotator cuff injuries with impingement and how it has impeaded your ability to safely carry your bag , i know i am in the same quandry as you because i have permanent damage to both left and right shoulders and even though i can still swing my limited range of motion prevents me from even trying and any extension past a certain point becomes quickly painful [/b]

[JDorfler]

I'm liking the Clicgear system. I might look a fool with all that stuff, but it's so nice. Everything is with me and just rolls like a dream.

[J13]

My ClicGear 3.0 is awesome.

[Joe Duffer]

I'm nearly 67 years old and carry using a [color=#000000][b]MacKenzie Walker.[/b][/color][url="http://www.themackenziegolfbagcompany.com/"]http://www.themacken...bagcompany.com/[/url]

[color=#000000][size=4]My back and shoulders are just fine.[/size][/color]

[size=3][size=4][color=#000000]Man-up and look like a real golfer...[/color][/size][/size]

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='tweakedmelon' timestamp='1345129329' post='5482474']
Over the past few days, I have been entertaining the idea of getting a push cart. Now the problem with this decision is very similar to what I have seen splattered across the forum in many different topics, and I will throw OPINIONS out there, so that they really don't need to be repeated:

[b]Pushing[/b]
Pros:
1) Less Fatigue (potentially better scoring and I will still want to go out and party on the weekends)
2) Healthier for back and shoulders by reducing disk compression?

Cons:
1) It hurts my 24 year old ego
2) Carrying is more "pure"

Basically, the pros in general outweigh the cons EXCEPT for the trump card: EGO. Now, I can get over my ego pretty easily. As someone fairly fresh out of college, it is very much like that first drunk hook-up with the crazy not-so-attractive girl everyone warned you about. Yeah, the first time it happens you get a lot of crap for it, but afterwards you think, " well who still got some action?"

Anyway, the point of this topic isn't for me to banter about personal pros and cons of carrying vs. pushing, but a quest for legitamate research on the health benefits or disadvantages of each option. Have any golf associations put out any clear studies on the impacts on scores or health from carrying vs. pushing?
[/quote]

Are you saying whether you carry or push is going to be decided by some study???? If there is research, you'd still have to look into who paid for that research. I carried till I saw the advantage of pushing... been pushing ever since. If I were a professional caddie, I'd carry... since I make a living doing something completely different, and don't want nor need to cope with a sore shoulder, there's my research. Oh, I am 60+, have been visiting the gym every other day since HS, in great shape, least I was told that by a group of HS friends recently, and considered a better then average golfer. Research couldn't contribute one way or another to riding, my health or scoring, so there you have it.

PS - If "pure" is bring considered, do I need to go into all that constitutes "pure" golf?

[MountainKing]

I like to carry, never cared for pushing, pulling whatever. I spend a lot of time in the gym and am a marathon runner so golfing 36 while carrying doesn't phase me that much. Everybody is built different, my Dad even in his prime couldnt carry because of his back. Maybe another 10 years and Ill give into the cart but for now carrying is my preferred method.

[Mudguard]

[quote name='Joe Duffer' timestamp='1352762398' post='5924547']
I'm nearly 67 years old and carry using a [color=#000000][b]MacKenzie Walker[/b][/color]

[color=#000000][size=4]My back and shoulders are just fine.[/size][/color]

[size=3][size=4][color=#000000]Man up and look like a real golfer...[/color][/size][/size]
[/quote]

Somehow I don't you could cram enough in that bag that would get anywhere near the weight of a modern bag! I'm 31, carried a bag for 20 years, bought a Clicgear this year and haven't looked back. And I've got a damaged rotator cuff. Which to be honest the only time I notice is getting something off a shelf above my head, and lifting my sticks out of the boot. Nothing when I swing it fortunately.

[J13]

Funny because once I bought my clicgear other guys in there 30's started buying or asking questions about my cart. I still get some crap from time to time but I typically respond with "what do you like being a human muel?" and it stops quick haha.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='johl' timestamp='1345139497' post='5483510']
if your bag is weighing more than 20% of your body weight then you carry too much stuff. i don't see how carrying will cause compression issues in your back? I'm in the military and we always carry weights in excess of 50kg day after day, week after week in some instances, and there are never any injuries as a direct result of the weight. the only time people get injured is when they use the wrong technique of do something stupid.
as long as you are carrying the bag properly you will be fine, but if pushing gets you playing more golf, then push
[/quote]
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but backpackers and others who routinely carry high weight packs (over 30lbs or so) long ago adopted packs with waist belts that shift much of the weight off the back and on to the hips. Bag manufacturers have not figured out how to incorporate a belt-type system although Sun Mountain has tried:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/equipment-insider/sun-mountain-unveils-swift-zg-carry-bag-hip-belt/

I seem to remember that someone (SM maybe) might have also tried a fairly complicated arrangement on a bag to do the same thing. Didn't catch on obviously.

[Hogan's Cardy]

I carry in winter as my course(s) tend to be low lying with a good amount of water and the wheels (even winter ones) churn up the ground. I usually carry 10-11 clubs in the winter months and maybe have some waterproofs that weigh about as much as Kylie Minogue's hotpants inside, a few balls and a beanie. Umbrella is brought along if it looks likely to rain...I'm in the UK so obviously that's most rounds. I prefer carrying then for ease of access, protection of the course and to stop my trolley from becoming covered in mud.

In the summer (April-Sept) I use a Motocaddy as it's hard work carrying on a hot day (if we ever have another one) and the winter reasons for not using it are no longer valid. Plus in the main part of the season I like to have the full 14 clubs, a few cold drinks, snacks etc in the bag and it's simply more convenient.

I don't use standard trolleys, they feel worse than carrying to me.

I don't mind what anyone does with their clubs but as some have seemed bemused as to why anyone would choose to carry I thought I would give my reasons.

[Joe Duffer]

[quote name='Mudguard' timestamp='1352792744' post='5926831']
[quote name='Joe Duffer' timestamp='1352762398' post='5924547']
I'm nearly 67 years old and carry using a [color=#000000][b]MacKenzie Walker[/b][/color]

[color=#000000][size=4]My back and shoulders are just fine.[/size][/color]

[size=3][size=4][color=#000000]Man-up and look like a real golfer...[/color][/size][/size]
[/quote]

Somehow I don't you could cram enough in that bag that would get anywhere near the weight of a modern bag! I'm 31, carried a bag for 20 years, bought a Clicgear this year and haven't looked back. And I've got a damaged rotator cuff. Which to be honest the only time I notice is getting something off a shelf above my head, and lifting my sticks out of the boot. Nothing when I swing it fortunately.
[/quote]

[b]DON'T CRAM !!![/b]

You're taking too much stuff with you on the golf course. For starters try playing with just 7 or 8 clubs. You'll love it !!

[Shiram]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1345141853' post='5483734']
[quote name='johl' timestamp='1345139497' post='5483510']
if your bag is weighing more than 20% of your body weight then you carry too much stuff. i don't see how carrying will cause compression issues in your back? I'm in the military and we always carry weights in excess of 50kg day after day, week after week in some instances, and there are never any injuries as a direct result of the weight. the only time people get injured is when they use the wrong technique of do something stupid.
as long as you are carrying the bag properly you will be fine, but if pushing gets you playing more golf, then push
[/quote]

This +1. Millions of service men and women, not to mention recreational hikers and campers, carry far more weight on a daily basis than even a heavy carry bag. These are adults, of course. That AJGA study focuses on children whose spines are still developing. I would think the rotation of the golf swing is more likely create a back injury that the few extra pounds of carrying.

That said, I have used a push cart in the past when I was dealing with a rotator cuff impingement issue. I could swing and play golf, but the weight of the bag and reaching behind me to shoulder it was making the impingement worse. So I pushed for a while, but I can't say I noticed much appreciable reduction in end of round fatigue.
[/quote]


One issue with the comparison to hikers is that golfers set down and pickup their bag 50+ times a round. Hikers usually put on the pack and leave it there for the duration - with only a few breaks a day.

No evidence to support this but taking the bag on and off is why I bought a cart.

[Joe Duffer]

[quote name='Hogan's Cardy' timestamp='1352814411' post='5927207']
I carry in winter as my course(s) tend to be low lying with a good amount of water and the wheels (even winter ones) churn up the ground. I usually carry 10-11 clubs in the winter months and maybe have some waterproofs that weigh about as much as Kylie Minogue's hotpants inside, a few balls and a beanie. Umbrella is brought along if it looks likely to rain...I'm in the UK so obviously that's most rounds. I prefer carrying then for ease of access, protection of the course and to stop my trolley from becoming covered in mud.

In the summer (April-Sept) I use a Motocaddy as it's hard work carrying on a hot day (if we ever have another one) and the winter reasons for not using it are no longer valid. Plus in the main part of the season I like to have the full 14 clubs, a few cold drinks, snacks etc in the bag and it's simply more convenient.

I don't use standard trolleys, they feel worse than carrying to me.

I don't mind what anyone does with their clubs but as some have seemed bemused as to why anyone would choose to carry I thought I would give my reasons.
[/quote]

Good post... I wish more people would follow your example.

[Sean2]

I still carry, except on rare occasions. I consider it a part of my exercise regimen (I'm 57).

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1345141853' post='5483734']
[quote name='johl' timestamp='1345139497' post='5483510']
if your bag is weighing more than 20% of your body weight then you carry too much stuff. i don't see how carrying will cause compression issues in your back? I'm in the military and we always carry weights in excess of 50kg day after day, week after week in some instances, and there are never any injuries as a direct result of the weight. the only time people get injured is when they use the wrong technique of do something stupid.
as long as you are carrying the bag properly you will be fine, but if pushing gets you playing more golf, then push
[/quote]

This +1. Millions of service men and women, not to mention recreational hikers and campers, carry far more weight on a daily basis than even a heavy carry bag. These are adults, of course. That AJGA study focuses on children whose spines are still developing. I would think the rotation of the golf swing is more likely create a back injury that the few extra pounds of carrying.

That said, I have used a push cart in the past when I was dealing with a rotator cuff impingement issue. I could swing and play golf, but the weight of the bag and reaching behind me to shoulder it was making the impingement worse. So I pushed for a while, but I can't say I noticed much appreciable reduction in end of round fatigue.
[/quote]

I carried my bag for a long time, but there came the day when it didn't make convenient sense. Mind you, I've carried a 70lb backpack all day over mountainous and jungle terrine; even Nordic skied with it, and jumped off small ridges as I traveled week to two weeks at a time. Anyway, carrying such a backpack all day long is no big whoop, as it's packed to be balanced and properly strapped to me. Much different then even my 6lb carry golf bag filled with clubs and stuff that moves about, and designed to throw on and off over 18 holes. I now happily use a Clicgear 3.0 and have the seat attachment. Talk about a nice walk in the park, and the ease of waiting for slow pokes. That's when I set and enjoy a fine cigar, while others stand.