Junior golf

[dpb5031]

I have been caddying for my daughter (13, soon to be 14) in US Kids events over the past 4 seasons. It has been a terrific experience all the way around. It can be challenging when things are not going well, but as a parent you must learn to temper your emotions and have some discipline. I'm around scratch as a golfer and act as my daughter's main coach, so she trusts me and I generally help her to shoot her lowest scores. The "teenager attitude" is upon us though now, so I hope we can make it through without too many rough patches. There are so many distractions for kids this age nowadays! Anyway...we're off next week to the Junior Honda Classic in West Palm Beach, FL. No caddies allowed...

[jollysammy]

This reminds me of a funny caddy story. My old friend Dick Pickett was a very good golfer. He once competed in the Northern California amateurs against another junior amateur golfer whose caddy was a young Johnny Miller...

[ump23]

how many of you have read shooting for tiger? i read it a few years ago and started reading it again tonight. let me know what you thought of it. if you haven't, its a good read for junior parents both boys and girls. to the post made earlier you know there is nothing better then watching your children succeed. i can remember every one of those moments and i try to forget the way they felt when things went bad. but it happened to me and I'm still around and doing fine, i guess they'll be ok too. gotta love those teenage years. some confusing times in our life. you couldn't pay me to go back then. best of luck. i read earl woods book traing a tiger. earl loved that boy and perhaps he was trying to make up for all the mistakes he made with his first kids. but i think one thing he said that stuck with me the most was that tiger new that they would love him no matter what. if you got that down the rest is gravy.

[gr8 flopshot]

[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1353040341' post='5941623']
[quote name='ump23' timestamp='1353038419' post='5941533']
ok, this past week i made some calls around to different clubs looking for a pro that will get my 8 yo ready to play tournement golf this spring. I have to be honest with you if i hear one more "[b]wanna be pga pro" tell me that just take him out and let him hit the ball i[/b]'m going to.... never mind. you get the point. My son has been [b]playing for over two years[/b]. I like the fact that he asks me to go play not the other way. We have worked on the proper way to swing a club and putt and so on but now he is getting to a point where he needs to start competing against other kids. Don't get me wrong i love playing with him and i think we both find enjoyment with that but well let me just flat out and say it, the kid is pretty good. i know, another bragging dad thinking that their son is the next Tiger. I wish, Earl made a lot of money from Tiger. But seriously, my thinking is this [b]children that strive to win [/b](not at all cost) and work and compete hard usually carry that over into their studies and life. [b]My thing is that winning is important [/b]and if a child is getting ready to compete why not prepare him mentally and physically to win. I need someone to help him and me. I have never been involved in tournement golf besides club events. The [b]last thing i want to do is make winning more important then enjoying this great game[/b]. Last, the tournement thing was not my idea it was his..dam youtube. I would like to hear what people think and what direction should I go in his golf.
[/quote]

There is alot that I don't agree with in this post. First, you come off as the kind of guy that pushes his kid into golf. And NOBODY in the junior golf community will appreciete that. Just make sure that you don't force it upon him.

Second, the "wanna be" PGA pros (who probably all carry single digit handicaps) are correct when they say that your son should just hit the ball. He doesn't need to be put any tournament pressure at age 8. Which leads me to the third point, when you mention he played for 2 years.. Thats not always enough, I played for 8 years before my first tournament at age 11, and still wasn't at the top of the leaderboard.

Fourth, children at that age do not strive to win. They play the game to have fun, and spend time with people their own age. They are never concerned with thoughts like "If I birdie 14, 15 and then par out, I can win this tourney." They are more excited about what kind of milkshake their parents will buy them after the round.

Fifth, and most importantly winning is not important at that age level. It is not even as close to as important as the values that one can take out of golfing. It does however please me to see you write, "The [b]last thing i want to do is make winning more important then enjoying this great game"..[/b] If you follow that line, you and your son will be in good shape.
Hope I wasn't too harsh,
-Jr. golfer
[/quote]

Please be careful with your generalizations.
1) My kids have played EVERY sport they have EVER played with a desire to win. That wasn't pushed onto them, it is what they want and both of them have been playing club level soccer since age 8. my wife and i have always emphasized development but my kids love to win and HATE to lose.
2) you don't know this man or his son. My daughter started following me to the range when she was three. then one day she said she wanted to play in a tournament. I found a tournament and she got her butt kicked. She hated that feeling and then asked me for a private coach. She is now the only freshman in her high schools top 5 players. All her doing. I bring this up to say that SHE wanted to play in a tournament, not me.
3) Again, just becasue you were not driven top win at an early age doesnt mean other kids arent. My daughter has ALWAYS kept her score in her head accurately since she was 7. SHE CARES and several other kids care too. If you think hte Lexi Thompson's Ty Tryon's Rory McElroy's of the world didnt grow up concerned about scoring then you are WAY off base.

To the OP...I happen to live in a community with an amazing junior golf program (Long Beach, CA). the kids play 18 every friday and they have PGA pros that work with the kids on their skills as they need it. They also have tournaments about once a quarter including the junior tournament that runs parallel to the Long Beach Open. if you can not find a program like this close to your home, look at the high end private clubs. I recently learned that the high end clubs in my area have juniopr golf programs in the summer where even non-member children can participate and build their skills and compete in the summer. Good luck to you guys.

[ump23]

very well said. i have looked into that and that may work. there is a pretty nice CC in KC that has a junior program. we'll see if that will work. No way could i even pay for the initiation for the place. however we are fortunate enough to have a golf coarse a mile a way from our house. its a mom and pap run club but the greens are good and the have a practice hole that he can hit every club in his bag and they have basically told me to bring him any time to practice. so that's nice. they see us quiet a bit. me sitting in my chair with a coke and him hitting balls or both of us putting and chipping on the practice green. there are a lot of older gentlemen that play there and they sometime give him some funny looks but the guys working in the club house are really nice to him. thanks for your comments and suggestions. one last thing i was reminded today by the 8 year old that there is 150 days till his first tournament.

[gr8 flopshot]

hey man, have fun with your kid in a game that you can both enjoy for a long time. Some kids are really driven. I had people laugh at me when i first changed my daughter from ladies flex to regular flex shafts at age 11. But it was all based on what she wanted. Think about this...an 11 year old girl tha plays golf as her secdon sport said "daddy, i dont like my golf lcubs because they feel whippy. It feels like the club head is moving in my back swing.
her description plus the fact that she was hitting a huge hook led me to have her swing speed analyzed. Sure enough, the kid adequatley described a weak shaft flex. I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! i had even really noticed a change in her swing speed but sure enough, her swing speed was right around 84 MPH average.
Listen to your gut and your kid. Half of the guys on here know nothing about raising well rounded kids. Again, have fun with your son and hte game of golf.

[TheMackDaddy]

[quote name='gr8 flopshot' timestamp='1354659932' post='6018639']
[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1353040341' post='5941623']
[quote name='ump23' timestamp='1353038419' post='5941533']
ok, this past week i made some calls around to different clubs looking for a pro that will get my 8 yo ready to play tournement golf this spring. I have to be honest with you if i hear one more "[b]wanna be pga pro" tell me that just take him out and let him hit the ball i[/b]'m going to.... never mind. you get the point. My son has been [b]playing for over two years[/b]. I like the fact that he asks me to go play not the other way. We have worked on the proper way to swing a club and putt and so on but now he is getting to a point where he needs to start competing against other kids. Don't get me wrong i love playing with him and i think we both find enjoyment with that but well let me just flat out and say it, the kid is pretty good. i know, another bragging dad thinking that their son is the next Tiger. I wish, Earl made a lot of money from Tiger. But seriously, my thinking is this [b]children that strive to win [/b](not at all cost) and work and compete hard usually carry that over into their studies and life. [b]My thing is that winning is important [/b]and if a child is getting ready to compete why not prepare him mentally and physically to win. I need someone to help him and me. I have never been involved in tournement golf besides club events. The [b]last thing i want to do is make winning more important then enjoying this great game[/b]. Last, the tournement thing was not my idea it was his..dam youtube. I would like to hear what people think and what direction should I go in his golf.
[/quote]

There is alot that I don't agree with in this post. First, you come off as the kind of guy that pushes his kid into golf. And NOBODY in the junior golf community will appreciete that. Just make sure that you don't force it upon him.

Second, the "wanna be" PGA pros (who probably all carry single digit handicaps) are correct when they say that your son should just hit the ball. He doesn't need to be put any tournament pressure at age 8. Which leads me to the third point, when you mention he played for 2 years.. Thats not always enough, I played for 8 years before my first tournament at age 11, and still wasn't at the top of the leaderboard.

Fourth, children at that age do not strive to win. They play the game to have fun, and spend time with people their own age. They are never concerned with thoughts like "If I birdie 14, 15 and then par out, I can win this tourney." They are more excited about what kind of milkshake their parents will buy them after the round.

Fifth, and most importantly winning is not important at that age level. It is not even as close to as important as the values that one can take out of golfing. It does however please me to see you write, "The [b]last thing i want to do is make winning more important then enjoying this great game"..[/b] If you follow that line, you and your son will be in good shape.
Hope I wasn't too harsh,
-Jr. golfer
[/quote]

Please be careful with your generalizations.
1) My kids have played EVERY sport they have EVER played with a desire to win. That wasn't pushed onto them, it is what they want and both of them have been playing club level soccer since age 8. my wife and i have always emphasized development but my kids love to win and HATE to lose.
2) you don't know this man or his son. My daughter started following me to the range when she was three. then one day she said she wanted to play in a tournament. I found a tournament and she got her butt kicked. She hated that feeling and then asked me for a private coach. She is now the only freshman in her high schools top 5 players. All her doing. I bring this up to say that SHE wanted to play in a tournament, not me.
3) Again, just becasue you were not driven top win at an early age doesnt mean other kids arent. My daughter has ALWAYS kept her score in her head accurately since she was 7. SHE CARES and several other kids care too. If you think hte Lexi Thompson's Ty Tryon's Rory McElroy's of the world didnt grow up concerned about scoring then you are WAY off base.

To the OP...I happen to live in a community with an amazing junior golf program (Long Beach, CA). the kids play 18 every friday and they have PGA pros that work with the kids on their skills as they need it. They also have tournaments about once a quarter including the junior tournament that runs parallel to the Long Beach Open. if you can not find a program like this close to your home, look at the high end private clubs. I recently learned that the high end clubs in my area have juniopr golf programs in the summer where even non-member children can participate and build their skills and compete in the summer. Good luck to you guys.
[/quote]

1)Sure, winning is a bonus, but whether or not you realize it it isn't as important as actually enjoying the quality time with their peers. Winning isn't forced on to hardly anyone, but neither is enjoying time with freinds. Your kids may love winning and hate losing, but that is a very select number of kids who feel that way.

2) Of course I don't know the man or his kid, which is why I generalized. I don't know what you're trying to prove with your second point, but if you want to start throwing out your daughters accomplishments for some sort of credibility I began playing at three as well. I was the #1 spot on my high school team as a freshman, and I was one of six kids to qualify for the High school state tournament (out of 80 kids total). I am ranked 3rd overall in the state for my age group, and carry a 0 handicap. I also see a private instructor. Again, dunno what sort of point you are trying to get across here, but lets just be clear I know what I am talking about. I've been in the posistion of a 7 year old golfer before. I'm guessing (generalizing) that you have not.

3)While you are correct that I wasn't concerned with winning, I was concerned about improving. Trying to become better and better for my own benifit. Two different things. Keeping score in your head doesn't relate to winning. It is actually tied to measuring progress... also know as measuring IMPROVEMENT.

[ump23]

golf is fun. i kinda of laugh. i have gotten to the point when it comes to this post that somethings that are said are better to be left alone. i have some good news. today i spoke with a nice women who i actually went to college with her husband and she is on a committee in the area. and they are going to start a junior program at several of the different public coarses around the city. some private clubs do have a junior program however they are just for the members. i am going to continue to post on this topic what i have seen. and questions that might arise. i know my purpose for this whole thing was to talk about lessons but i have learned so much more about junior tournament golf. come this spring we'll know more.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

*course , courses

[ump23]

ok i hope that the people that commented on this read this. we are getting ready to start our fall season here in about a month. but spring and summer are over. i, as well as my son learned a lot. one, and this was said many times. short game is where you win tournaments. chipping and putting. you can hit it a country mile but if you can't work around the green and score you aren't going to win or place. two, competition the better it is the better he plays and hard work equals results. once you teach something does not mean its there forever. they are a constant work in progress. golf parents for the most part are very nice. much nicer then baseball parents. granted still early yet. and i'm glad to see other parents still put a little pressure on there kid to stay focused. kids will be kids and like many things they need to be pushed from time to time. he is still having fun but loves the hardware even more. total for this year 9 first place one forth place and one next to last. oops. i learned a lot about him and when he competes and when he practices. i learned that he has two games the one that he knows he is going to win and the one that he wants to win and the competition is better. i saw him play some great golf and then i have seen him play like he was just picking up a club. i have been frustrated and i have glowed with pride. i have learned that sometimes i need to step back and let him learn on his own by his own mistakes and let him figure out where he went wrong. i have learned that at moments i can push to hard and have to step back and remind myself that he is 8 and what i want may not be the same thing that he wants. i have learned that he enjoys playing with other kids no different if they were on the playground playing basketball or playing golf. he enjoys his friends that play golf even more because not many of them do. he enjoys the complements and the attention he gets from adults and the the club pro. but i think that is starting to ware off. he most enjoys playing with his dad even though we don't play as much as we used to,so i must be doing something right. he loves to win. and i never told him he had to win. when it was over i simply would say you worked hard and practice hard and you deserved it. i have seen him have a bad nine holes and walk of and say i didn't play very well. to that i simply would agree and say "where do you think you could of done better." his answer many times would be i need to practice more. truth be is that many times it was not physical it was mental. something that over time he will understand and learn. i sometimes feel that i am over doing it but then i talk to his friends parents who's kids are top players in the area and they are about doing the same as me. last and i knew this before. there is golf and then there is tournament golf. and the kids that can raise their game up when the stakes are up are the kids that do well. i watched him sink an 8 footer in a playoff hole to win when all long he was telling me that there was no way this kid was going to beat him. i watched on the second day of a three day tournament where he had the lead and told me that he was going to step on their necks and finish them off. and watched him go out and shoot par. then come back the next day knowing he held a big lead and shoots a safe four over to win by ten shots. i have seen the the good the great and the ugly. i have seen him get frustrated and throw his clubs and to that he lost them for a little while. i have seen him cry in defeat but wanted nothing but to get back out there and do it again. we had a wonderful experience this spring and summer and look forward to this fall. oh last, when i said to teach him how to win. i was wrong. they learn it on there own. and it does not take long. they get the taste of winning and then the taste of losing and it does take them long to figure it out. cheers golfers

[Noles]

I can't believe I didn't see this thread before today. It sounds like you already found an instructor but if you are ever looking again, USKids Golf identifies top teachers and there is bound to be one in your area. The US Kids tournaments are a lot of fun. Its good for the kids to be around other kids who play a lot of golf. After each tournament, the boys in our age group toss the medals to their parents and race over to the putting green to putt with each other. They usually make some kind of game out of it. My son is 9 and all the kids that have played in his age group over the years have had some form of instruction. I have never understood the viewpoint of "just let them hit it and they will figure it out." What other sport is that the philosophy?

[ump23]

noles,
no other sport. all have some sort of discipline. golf which is definitely a game of discipline needs to be taught at a young age. . the thing is this, kids are starting younger and younger in this sport. baseball and other sports are many times being introduced around 4-5 years old. since tiger, golf is now being introduced at around the same age. some of the reason why the golf now at the professional level is getting so good. US Kids just got introduced in our area and is doing well. the tournaments are well run and the sites are usually some of the nicest in the city. there is no pro here in the area but we found a guy that is really good. and we both like him. i think that having a guy in case the wheels start to come off, he has someone to turn to when i can't figure out whats going wrong. thanks for your comment. good luck to you and your child

[MyShortGameSucks]

Great topic with a lot of good points on both side of the debate. I have had a lot of experience with this. I won't rehash what's been said but ump23 or others if you want to swap stories (good or bad) then PM me!

My son is 9 now and this is his second season of tournament golf. He has been swinging a club since he was 2 and could have and wanted to play official tourneys much earlier but I held him until 8 so he could learn and appreciate some of the basic rules and how to score. He primarily plays US Kids Golf but has played some other tournaments. To be honest he US Kids tournaments are SO much better organized and way more fun. Most other tourneys for his age group (outside of the big national events) just seem like an afterthought and while we'll intentioned are often chaotic . Also the non caddie rule at some of these other Tourneys can be counter productive. I have seen kids small for their age struggle lugging their bag around on hot days and be miserable, unfocused and frustrated.

Bottom line is my son loves it and we have met some great people and new friends through these tournaments. There no one at my club of the same age/level as my son and through these events he is finally getting to play with other kids who love he game like him and love to compete.

I also love what Noles wrote: as I also see this after every tourney:

" After each tournament, the boys in our age group toss the medals to their parents and race over to the putting green to putt with each other. They usually make some kind of game out of it.".

As parents we love to watch the boys doing this while we hang out watching and swapping stories. When its time to go we literally have to drag the kids away to get them home

[dpb5031]

ump23, I'm really happy you are finding your way and enjoying the journey with your son! The world of junior golf is relatively small, especially at the top levels. You and your son will meet some great people and develop lasting friendships with folks from all over the country. My daughter (now 14) has a pretty good season also. The teenage distractions are still there, but she is beginning to realize that if she wants to be a great player it is going to take dedication and discipline, and although I am here for support and encouragement, it is going to be on her, not me. She played in her first AJGA last week and shot 82-78-80 and finished middle of the pack, but had 35-39 putts in each round due to poor lag putting, so she knows what she needs to work on. This is a good thread...

[ump23]

dpd5031,
so nice to hear back from you.its nice to hear your daughter is playing well. hope all is well. her putting deal. have you tried giving her a ball and tossing them to the hole from say over thirty feet. i noticed that after we did this drill once a week that his lag putting got better. and i'm a big one on 2 footers. he not a big fan of it unless we're doing it together and he wins 80 percent of the time. take three balls and make 30 in a row if you miss start over again. because of his age i incorporate math with it 3 X ? equals. i love this game. last spring we were studying his spelling words while walking to his ball. amazing that he played really good. [url="https://www.facebook.com/LeftyBlake"]https://www.facebook.com/LeftyBlake[/url]

[ump23]

we all try to do what is best for our children and give them every opportunity when they have a passion. i was going back through some of these posts and then i remembered some of the reading i went to before we start this whole thing with golf. i am the type of person that will investigate and find information before i get deep into something. one thing i noticed with most top athletes is somebody, weather it was a mother or father, was there pushing them when they were kids. I am not a big one on burn out, i think it does not exist. i think what does exist is that when fun is not good enough to stay competitive. some people were made to win and will work to great length to do so. you see that in the business world and see that in athletics. cheers

[GoAromando]

I have enjoyed reading this thread.

I'm a "Pushy Parent" and "Bad Father" but my daughter won't have it any other way.

My daughter sets her own goals and I develop the path to get her there. This means I PUSH her, I set minimum amount of practice goals. I tell her has to practice before she goes to the pool. And many other things, she does them because they will get her to her goals. If she chooses to lower her goals, she won't need as much dedication and practice.

Playing with better players will make you a better play if that is your goal.[list]
[*]Grace has always been considered a long hitter for her age. She's 11y and out drivers most high school girls. This summer at an international tournament she met a girl from Beijing who was 12y and out drover her my 40y. Its given her a new goal. Next year she wants to beat her in the driving competition.
[/list]

Finding "Good" instructors/coach for young juniors is challenging in many parts of the country. Many will run junior camps, but don't want to provide individual instruction. The better ones are tied to private clubs in our area, but they can still give lessons to non-member if they choose.

A little about my daughter & our experience:[list]
[*]My daughter started hitting balls at 3y. I would take her to the range while I practiced and put her at a table with a coloring book. Next thing I new she was trying hit balls. I saw an inexpensive set of USKids Red clubs and pick them up. It was not long before people where stopping to watch and commenting on how good her swing was. I was a "Hack" so I didn't know any better. When she was 5 she played in her 1st tournament and won.
[*]Since I had never had a lesson and only read 1 book on the golf swing, I was nervous I was telling her things wrong. So, the winter after she turn 5y I asked the Pro at the learning center where I took her to hit balls & putt to give her lessons. NO.. I was shocked and a little ticked. I got the "kids at that age just need to hit balls." Luckily, another Pro heard our conversation and she watched Grace practice through the window. As we were leaving she come up to me and said she'd be happy to work with her a little. For the rest of the winter Grace & I ("The Hack") took a 30 min lesson together once a week. She would work with Grace for 15 min. and then me for 15 min. while keeping an eye on Grace to see that she was doing the drills. Yes, at the age of 35 I took lessons with my 5y daughter.
[*]Getting lessons for her at 5y was the best Golf Decision I have made. Over 10 lesson she only worked on the basics, Grip, Posture and Alignment. She still only takes a few lessons a year. A couple in the spring to brush off the rust and when she wants to learn something new.
[/list]
The Pro that told me NO when she was 5y is NOW her instructor. This year she wanted a change and he was the best to accomplish her goals. I've never said anything to him about it, but she has.

[ChazBass]

We’ve been playing junior golf for 12 years. My daughter just signed an NLI for a top D1 school. I can offer the following advice: Age 8 is definitely not too young for lessons if your child is genuinely interested. My daughter started at 5. You can find good golf teaching professionals to get you started by asking other families who play junior golf in your area. US Kids, First Tee, and you PGA regional entity are great places to start.

 

The most important thing to do is to teach your child to swing the clubs right. You don’t want to be trying to undo bad habits 5 years from now. Putting is a lifelong endeavor. Get them started early. If they ever get to the point of playing high level tournament golf (and I agree they should only play tournament golf if they really want to), the ability routinely put the ball in the fairway, on the green, and then one/two putt all begins with very solid fundamentals. I see a lot of juniors who struggle with consistency. Watching them on the range you can see issues with their swing. It’s not from a lack of practice but rather from not learning correctly in the first place. Lastly this doesn’t mean lessons everyday. Your child can benefit from just getting instruction a few times a month and then practicing hard in between.

My $0.02.