Will Tiger be the next Hogan?

[MizunoJoe]

In 50 yrs, this swing is much more likely to be studied than Hogan's. There's little chance they'll be studying one that's a century old.

I watched this swing shoot a 7 under 63 on Fri of the 2007 PGA Champshp on the way to an 8 under winning total. Metals start at 7:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWLt8qsxMAk

[ej002]

He certainly looks freed up in that motion.

[guisician]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1357140123' post='6153081']
He certainly looks freed up in that motion.
[/quote]

AND that was on one leg (US Open @ Torrey Pines). No matter what kind of guy he is or what he's done, gotta respect that.

[tembolo1284]

As awesome as that swing above is, I'd rather have his scrambling and putting ability than the swing from that time.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357232695' post='6160629']
As awesome as that swing above is, I'd rather have his scrambling and putting ability than the swing from that time.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. With his short game, I'd be a tour winner!

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357232695' post='6160629']
As awesome as that swing above is, I'd rather have his scrambling and putting ability than the swing from that time.
[/quote]

And all the ladies lol

[Jericho]

Hogan is known as a great ball striker. TW is known as a great golfer.

We study him today because he had the one thing that we dont have today...unparalleled accuracy. With today's training, equipment, nutrition, etc... distance is a "dime a dozen" but accuracy that is almost automatic cannot be purchased. Also we study him because he did something in a manner that is not the norm by todays standards (swing left, CP release). Today everyone uses a CF release, rolls the wrist over, and swings down the line. Yeah its fun to hit real far push draws but the consistency is in the toilet. I'd bet if you threw Tiger's swing into that era, they'd all be studying him. So i think it's all relative.

Golf = Drivers, irons, pitching, chipping, putting scrambling, creativity with shot making, distance, etc..

Hogan was a genius and is revered for his driving and irons. TW has been the best at all of the above at one point or another. If he wasn't so stubborn and probably more of a perfectionist than Hogan, he wouldve stuck with his 2000 swing and won a number of additional majors. Hogan took his best and tweaked it. Tiger took (takes) his best and throws it out the window and starts from almost scratch.

We really should not try and compare the 2. Tiger was almost created to be a golfer, Hogan was a normal guy that took up golf and got good. Tiger was taught by his dad and teachers, Ben had to learn what works by him by "digging it out of the dirt". Tiger dominated by initially hitting the ball further than anyone else. Hogan dominated by being more accurate than anyone. Both are special however Hogan is more intriguing because we simply dont know much about him whereas because of the world we live in, we know too much about Tiger.

[bscinstnct]

Tige has said that nobody owned his swing like Hogan.

I can't really recall Tiger saying that anybody besides Hogan was better than he (Tiger) is at anything with respect to golf.

So, I think he is doing all he can to be the next Hogan regarding the full swing.

But I am sure that the Hogan legacy as "the swing" will last forever.

Just wish there was more footage of it to study.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357235580' post='6160941']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357232695' post='6160629']
As awesome as that swing above is, I'd rather have his scrambling and putting ability than the swing from that time.
[/quote]

And all the ladies lol
[/quote]

I guess we'll never know...he had a very specific white, blonde, and bimboified type. Hey...whatever tickles your pickle...in this case literally.

[QMany]

I'm new to this discussion, but I have had a similar discussion many times with friends.

My Theory: If you put Tiger in a different era, he would be be romanticized and revered like Hogan is today.

We have stories of Hogan on the range with his caddy catching balls. By many accounts, Tiger puts on stripe shows on the range. We have a small number of videos of him. Tiger has millions on YouTube. We have this idea of a "secret." Don't get me wrong, I love Hogan as much as the next guy, but think if it was the same with Tiger. What if Hogan was around during Konica-Minolta SwingHub HD cameras on EVERY tee? What if media found out he actually had infedelities? What if there was a @HoganTrackerGC? What if he had Brandel Chamblee tearing him down even after he blew away a field?

Personally, because of the availability of Tiger's swing(s) from every angle in slow-mo, I think his swing will be studied and duplicated in the future. I'm guessing the 2000 swing and 2013-? swing will become similar to "pre-secret, post-secret, post-accident."

I respect all your opinions, and am really not trying to argue with what you've said. I have just thought about this angle before.

[ej002]

Agreed, Tiger will be super-human in 50 years. You would hear stories about how often he lipped out with his wedges from 80 yards or hit flag sticks (oh wait he did that his weekend). But his legacy will be different. The focus will not be on his super human ability to strike the ball, instead he will be known as teh greatest period, the greatest short game, greatest clutch, greatest recover shots, greatest putter etc.. Other tour player say now, that he is the only guy who can hit certain shots. I dont knwo if that carries over to his new swing, but he will be legendary. With all that said, he will not be known for his ball striking (from a control standpoint) or his swing. Probably b/c those are not the best thing about him. Even though he is great now, his contemporaries are not trying to copy or study him.

[finalist]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1356899315' post='6139831']
Interesting question.

And it brings to mind another question.

How were hogans ball striking stats?
[/quote]

Yes! What are BH's stats?

I think people will study each of Tiger's various swing methods to death in the future. People will remember his wins and think about the positives and study his swings. People will forget his bad years, bad stats etc pretty fast once he retires.

[finalist]

Typically legends grow... Just look at Hogan.

[finalist]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1356918051' post='6141247']
In 50 years they'll still be studying Hogan. Tiger will instead be remembered similar to the way Jack is remembered. IMO
[/quote]

good point. Jack doesn't have a Jack's heros section.

[clubgolfer]

I don't recall Hogan spitting on greens, I don't recall Hogan throwing a driver into the gallery, I don't recall Hogan F.ing and blinding his way around the course, I don't recall Hogan bedding so many women his wife gets rid of him so have I missed something here.

[QMany]

[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1359883469' post='6353823']
I don't recall Hogan spitting on greens, I don't recall Hogan throwing a driver into the gallery, I don't recall Hogan F.ing and blinding his way around the course, I don't recall Hogan bedding so many women his wife gets rid of him so have I missed something here.
[/quote]
You were around during the 40's and 50's? With ESPN? And Twitter?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1360010467' post='6362255']
[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1359883469' post='6353823']
I don't recall Hogan spitting on greens, I don't recall Hogan throwing a driver into the gallery, I don't recall Hogan F.ing and blinding his way around the course, I don't recall Hogan bedding so many women his wife gets rid of him so have I missed something here.
[/quote]
You were around during the 40's and 50's? With ESPN? And Twitter?
[/quote]
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1360010467' post='6362255']
[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1359883469' post='6353823']
I don't recall Hogan spitting on greens, I don't recall Hogan throwing a driver into the gallery, I don't recall Hogan F.ing and blinding his way around the course, I don't recall Hogan bedding so many women his wife gets rid of him so have I missed something here.
[/quote]
You were around during the 40's and 50's? With ESPN? And Twitter?
[/quote]

He smoked a lot by all accounts. I'm sure that chap spit a few times on the course. On the greens...maybe..who knows.

[clubgolfer]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1360010467' post='6362255']
[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1359883469' post='6353823']
I don't recall Hogan spitting on greens, I don't recall Hogan throwing a driver into the gallery, I don't recall Hogan F.ing and blinding his way around the course, I don't recall Hogan bedding so many women his wife gets rid of him so have I missed something here.
[/quote]
You were around during the 40's and 50's? With ESPN? And Twitter?
[/quote]

Plenty of film out there of Hogan playing.....remind us of an event you saw Hogan spitting, throwing his driver into the crowd, and just for the record he was married to the same woman for most of his life. Didnt know we needed Twits and ESPN to work that out mate

[clubgolfer]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=MkgJ3TbaMgk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMkgJ3TbaMgk&gl=GB

Even though we didnt have Twits and ESPN...anyone recall Hogan doing this...

[clubgolfer]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9FVkPJxjg

Say no more

[360_CS]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356883771' post='6138655']
[quote name='Santiago Golf' timestamp='1354059878' post='5986739']
When people think of the perfect swing or the starter of the modern swing, they think of Hogan. Now think about this, 50 years from now, do you think people will try to copy the swing of Tiger? Will the Tiger Swing be the next modern swing? I know that Tiger's swing is very similar to Hogan's right now, but it's not the same. So will there be a Forum in Golfwrx in 50 years in the insturction section that is called "Tigers Heroes". Let me hear your ideas. Agree or Disagree; Or think of some other pro, people will try to copy. This could be fun.
[/quote]

Yes, but it will be the 2007 version.
[/quote]

+1 on that. His 07 swing was insanely good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3mP9QfNpxQ

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1360143370' post='6371739']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356883771' post='6138655']
[quote name='Santiago Golf' timestamp='1354059878' post='5986739']
When people think of the perfect swing or the starter of the modern swing, they think of Hogan. Now think about this, 50 years from now, do you think people will try to copy the swing of Tiger? Will the Tiger Swing be the next modern swing? I know that Tiger's swing is very similar to Hogan's right now, but it's not the same. So will there be a Forum in Golfwrx in 50 years in the insturction section that is called "Tigers Heroes". Let me hear your ideas. Agree or Disagree; Or think of some other pro, people will try to copy. This could be fun.
[/quote]

Yes, but it will be the 2007 version.
[/quote]

+1 on that. His 07 swing was insanely good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ

[/quote]

That's from the Sunday round. As I said above, I saw the 63 round two days earlier up through the tee ball on 13, my ears still ringing from the roar on 12 green when he drained a 40 footer for par. Same swing as the 2008 Torrey Pines video above, and yes, I am an HH heretic, it is my model. LOL

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1360143370' post='6371739']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356883771' post='6138655']
[quote name='Santiago Golf' timestamp='1354059878' post='5986739']
When people think of the perfect swing or the starter of the modern swing, they think of Hogan. Now think about this, 50 years from now, do you think people will try to copy the swing of Tiger? Will the Tiger Swing be the next modern swing? I know that Tiger's swing is very similar to Hogan's right now, but it's not the same. So will there be a Forum in Golfwrx in 50 years in the insturction section that is called "Tigers Heroes". Let me hear your ideas. Agree or Disagree; Or think of some other pro, people will try to copy. This could be fun.
[/quote]

Yes, but it will be the 2007 version.
[/quote]

+1 on that. His 07 swing was insanely good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ

[/quote]

Oh, and in this final round, Ernie Els drove this par 4 10th while making a run at him, becoming the only one to ever drive it in tournament play, and the 2nd man to ever do it - the other being Mickey Mantle during a casual round in the 1980's.

[QMany]

[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1360133932' post='6371619']
[url="http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=MkgJ3TbaMgk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMkgJ3TbaMgk&gl=GB"]http://m.youtube.com...gJ3TbaMgk&gl=GB[/url]

Even though we didnt have Twits and ESPN...anyone recall Hogan doing this...
[/quote]

I'm sure there were a lot of twits around back then.

[clubgolfer]

QMany hahahaha I like your sense of Humour Mate.

I think the point I am making is that no doubt Hogan was a hard nosed, non talking intimidating Bloke. Not at all friendly to his playing partners but still a gentleman who upheld the traditions of the game.

I cannot stand to see players standing on the green leaning forward dropping the biggest spits they can and cursing etc. They are THE ones that young kids and golfers look up to and they see this and think this is the norm. I know I have seen kids spitting many times myself. These Pros and us older blokes have a duty to be some type of role model to young golfers coming through and joining clubs if we are ever to make sure we have young gentleman joining our club and the Pro Tours.

[QMany]

[quote name='clubgolfer' timestamp='1360215415' post='6378659']
QMany hahahaha I like your sense of Humour Mate.

I think the point I am making is that no doubt Hogan was a hard nosed, non talking intimidating Bloke. Not at all friendly to his playing partners but still a gentleman who upheld the traditions of the game.

I cannot stand to see players standing on the green leaning forward dropping the biggest spits they can and cursing etc. They are THE ones that young kids and golfers look up to and they see this and think this is the norm. I know I have seen kids spitting many times myself. These Pros and us older blokes have a duty to be some type of role model to young golfers coming through and joining clubs if we are ever to make sure we have young gentleman joining our club and the Pro Tours.
[/quote]
My long post earlier was hoping to stoke some discussion, because I think it is a relevant point. I'm glad you gave your input.

I just think the state of media right now makes it very difficult to compare the two. There isn't the great deluge of video and media following with Hogan like there is with Tiger. He never had the galleries or was on national TV swinging at age 3.

I am not arguing that Tiger's swing is better or that Tiger was a better sportsman, I just think it is a very interesting thing to think about. What if Tiger had played during that era?

[tembolo1284]

I mean the media is so bad it even covers when tiger blows his nose and farts.

I'm sure Hogan ripped some hideous ones in his day. With a CP release of course.

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1360143370' post='6371739']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356883771' post='6138655']
[quote name='Santiago Golf' timestamp='1354059878' post='5986739']
When people think of the perfect swing or the starter of the modern swing, they think of Hogan. Now think about this, 50 years from now, do you think people will try to copy the swing of Tiger? Will the Tiger Swing be the next modern swing? I know that Tiger's swing is very similar to Hogan's right now, but it's not the same. So will there be a Forum in Golfwrx in 50 years in the insturction section that is called "Tigers Heroes". Let me hear your ideas. Agree or Disagree; Or think of some other pro, people will try to copy. This could be fun.
[/quote]

Yes, but it will be the 2007 version.
[/quote]

+1 on that. His 07 swing was insanely good.

[/quote]

+2. He had two separate streaks of 7 and 6 consecutive wins under Haney. He won almost half of his tournaments, finished in the top 10 like 95% of the time. He was so fluid, his control with 3 wood to wedge was as good as anyone ever. It was really only with the driver that he looked off, and even then it was usually a blocked shot into the right rough.

I wonder how good Hogan really would have been with a modern driver over 45 inches and a lower spinning modern ball. I'm not sure if the game was ever intended to be played with this kind of equipment, and I suspect that Hogan, much like Tiger, would have been chronically frustrated with an inability to hit driver to his exacting accuracy standards (while hitting it long enough to have a chance to win every time).

[guisician]

[quote name='geesecougar2' timestamp='1360270737' post='6383201']

I wonder how good Hogan really would have been with a modern driver over 45 inches and a lower spinning modern ball. I'm not sure if the game was ever intended to be played with this kind of equipment, and I suspect that Hogan, much like Tiger, would have been chronically frustrated with an inability to hit driver to his exacting accuracy standards (while hitting it long enough to have a chance to win every time).
[/quote]

IMHO, Hogan would probably do today just what he did then; hit a driver with the longest extra-extra-stiff shaft he could control.

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1360275907' post='6383827']
[quote name='geesecougar2' timestamp='1360270737' post='6383201']
I wonder how good Hogan really would have been with a modern driver over 45 inches and a lower spinning modern ball. I'm not sure if the game was ever intended to be played with this kind of equipment, and I suspect that Hogan, much like Tiger, would have been chronically frustrated with an inability to hit driver to his exacting accuracy standards (while hitting it long enough to have a chance to win every time).
[/quote]

IMHO, Hogan would probably do today just what he did then; hit a driver with the longest extra-extra-stiff shaft he could control.
[/quote]

Does anyone know how long Hogan played his driver? Didn't most pros use something in the 43 inch range (really more comparable to the modern 3 wood)?

And wouldn't that help to explain why driving accuracy leaders from the persimmon days would hit over 80% of their fairways, whereas now they hit closer to 70% despite having a much, much more forgiving clubhead?