It's official: USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

[KYMAR]

[quote name='CheckJV' timestamp='1354131924' post='5990857']
Still no evidence that anchored putting provides any kind of statistically significant advantage. They propose to make the technique illegal because the ruling bodies of golf "do not like it."

What would happen if the USGA or R&A decided that they "did not like" people of color playing golf, or really tall people, or really short people, or golf balls with red numbers?

This is just crazy!

And for the record, I do not use an anchored putting technique.
[/quote]

Another who didn;t listen to the actual reason given. The whole of the "they don't like the way it looks" crowd are now silenced because asthetically on Television, a non anchored belly or long putter will look no different. Their reasoning and opinion was clear. This is about a golf stroke/swing and how it's made. And that it should be made freely and with only a connection from club to hands. How can you STILL argue it's just that they don't like it? I think it's because you just don't like the rule. Is that more or less reasonable than your theory?

[Dire Wolf]

These are the governing bodies of golf. They make the rules. They don't need to prove anything statistically. How many of the current rules are proven statistically?

[Croddad]

c. Length

The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).

For woods and irons, the measurement of length is taken when the club is lying on a horizontal plane and the sole is set against a 60 degree plane as shown in Fig. I. The length is defined as the distance from the point of the intersection between the two planes to the top of the grip. For putters, the measurement of length is taken from the top of the grip along the axis of the shaft or a straight line extension of it to the sole of the club.

I've been saying for YEARS to just take out the "except for putters" piece, and just let people do what they want. I don't really mind a belly putter, what I can't stand is the Bernhard Langer style Super Broomstick.

Every time I draw a dude with a belly or broomstick putter in a match, I automatically make him putt EVERYTHING. The reason he's using the stupid thing is that he's a crappy putter...I, however, am not :)

:drinks:

[gators78]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354132277' post='5990885']
These are the governing bodies of golf. They make the rules. They don't need to prove anything statistically. How many of the current rules are proven statistically?
[/quote]

The most recent groove rule was because of a vast 'study' they did, although after a year the play on the PGA Tour blew holes through it.

[Rick_Emerson]

What are the implications of this to side saddle or face on putting? Does anyone know?

[born4golf77]

[quote name='Asleep' timestamp='1354123764' post='5990139']
[quote name='Rockminer' timestamp='1354116477' post='5989395']IMO there is no other way to take it other than he want's credit for it. Every thread that has to do with this subject has been locked by [b]ZAK[/b]. ( many started a long time ago). I agree that one thread would be good, but there we're plenty of good conversations going on, that we're blown up, so that Zak could have the only ulocked thread on the subject.[/quote]

[b]Zak is just doing his job, guys. [/b]

[b]We've had a general policy here to lock or merge threads on the same topic, resulting in one group "conversation" on significant subjects. This is something that had been suggested/requested by many members in the past -- members who don't want to "miss anything" but don't have the time to jump around 3 or 4 different threads to keep up with the discussion.[/b]

[b]Thanks. [/b]
[/quote]

That sounds reasonable, but if you want to be fair about it then keep the ORIGINAL thread up and let Zak post his article in the original thread, either front load it in the beginning of the thread or just add it in chronologically like the rest of us.

By locking the original or most visited thread then YOU/GOLFWRX/ZAK are the ones confusing people trying to keep up with the discussion

Don't insult us, we know Zak is doing his job, but we can also see that his thread/article, which are usually just a re-hash of previous thoughts, an update, announcement or sometimes a thinly veiled ad (some of his cobra articles) always are the threads that gain precedent. I understand he has a job to do, but I think we can have healthy discussion and if a thread is ongoing then keep it going and either add his content chronologically or even load it into the front of the thread and let us know in the title and we can figure it out.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='Rick_Emerson' timestamp='1354133205' post='5990993']
What are the implications of this to side saddle or face on putting? Does anyone know?
[/quote]

The rules have not changed concerning this. Except that now you cannot anchor the putter while doing it. Still cannot straddle the line, though. Sorry.

[swingdoc80]

Congratulations to the usga and the r and a, You have officially succeeded in making the game less fun for several thousand players. All you gave ensured is that you will have added to the constant stream of players giving up the game. If you were going to do it then you should have done it several years ago but to do it now just because there is a higher percentage of people using it is truly pathetic.

I truly hope that either the players or manufacturers tie this up for years in the courts. Even though they have technically not banned the longer putters they are not allowing them to be used in the manner for which they were designed.

This will have negative impact on retail, growing the game and shows the usga to be every bit as out of touch as it has been feared. Do congrats usga, it's just another nail in the coffin.

[jg1166]

I have a question for the rules gurus on the site. I use a long putter but I do not anchor my top hand tp my chest/sternum, I lock my Elbow Pointing at the target and my forarm is parralell to the ground, with the top hand about 1" from my chest and the only hand that moves during the stroke is my Bottom Hand. Best way to think of this is same as Adam Scott's Putting stroke but instaed of the top of the putter resting on the schest there is a clear (Seeable) gap between the top of the putter and my chest. Now looking at the rules as stated and the examples this appears to be ok but is it still swinging the club through a flucrum which is what they are trying to outlaw.

If I do not lock any part of my arms to another part of my body and still use this swing is it illegal or am I right in thinking that I will still conform.

Opinions welcome

[mkc]

Wow some pretty ludicrous "arguments" being made here.. Someone said what if the governing bodies decide they don't like red numbers? Or black ppl!? What are you smoking and pass it this way?! Please people, get informed about the reasons behind this decision. And as for stats, I think it was Chamblee who put some numbers up on golf central today. Specifically showing guys performance pre-usage and post-usage. It was compelling, although [i]maybe [/i]not the perfect argument as he only showed a few examples.

/Still don't see why people who are using belly/long putters now have to complain about.

[Dire Wolf]

Please. Such drama.

[mkc]

[quote name='jg1166' timestamp='1354134722' post='5991131']
I have a question for the rules gurus on the site. I use a long putter but I do not anchor my top hand tp my chest/sternum, I lock my Elbow Pointing at the target and my forarm is parralell to the ground, with the top hand about 1" from my chest and the only hand that moves during the stroke is my Bottom Hand. Best way to think of this is same as Adam Scott's Putting stroke but instaed of the top of the putter resting on the schest there is a clear (Seeable) gap between the top of the putter and my chest. Now looking at the rules as stated and the examples this appears to be ok but is it still swinging the club through a flucrum which is what they are trying to outlaw.

If I do not lock any part of my arms to another part of my body and still use this swing is it illegal or am I right in thinking that I will still conform.

Opinions welcome
[/quote]

Not that I'm a rules guru, but the way I read it and have heard it explained, sounds fine. Your top hand although seeming similar to the fulcrum point in question, is not anchored to your body, and that's the whole point of this. It can still move freely. SAFE

On a different note, who are all these people who are all of a sudden gonna give up the game because the USGA and RA say they can't play a long putter?! Golfers are always looking for ways to improve, if anything its a small challenge, and really there is a simple fix, putt like jg1166 does. SIMPLE.

[Sean2]

I'm really torn here. On the professional level ban it (2016? Really? I don't care about some "rules cycle").

However...I have a friend, who like me is in his late 50s. He can't putt to save his life. The ball could be on the lip and he'd miss it. Recently he bought a belly putter, and now he can't miss (well, he's started making putts again). He's on cloud nine. Golf is [b]fun[/b] again.

For the professionals golf is a PROFESSION. For the weekend golfer golf is a GAME. I sometimes wonder if there should be a rules bifurcation. The jury is still out though. But I can see it...

[307golf]

[quote name='jg1166' timestamp='1354134722' post='5991131']
I have a question for the rules gurus on the site. I use a long putter but I do not anchor my top hand tp my chest/sternum, I lock my Elbow Pointing at the target and my forarm is parralell to the ground, with the top hand about 1" from my chest and the only hand that moves during the stroke is my Bottom Hand. Best way to think of this is same as Adam Scott's Putting stroke but instaed of the top of the putter resting on the schest there is a clear (Seeable) gap between the top of the putter and my chest. Now looking at the rules as stated and the examples this appears to be ok but is it still swinging the club through a flucrum which is what they are trying to outlaw.

If I do not lock any part of my arms to another part of my body and still use this swing is it illegal or am I right in thinking that I will still conform.

Opinions welcome
[/quote]

If your forearm is resting against your chest, I believe that this stroke would be deemed non-conforming with the new rule. If the forearms are not in contact with your body, nor the butt end of the club, nor your hand, then I believe that the stroke would be acceptable under the new rule.

[Dano golf]

[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354134489' post='5991111']
Congratulations to the usga and the r and a, You have officially succeeded in making the game less fun for several thousand players. All you gave ensured is that you will have added to the constant stream of players giving up the game. If you were going to do it then you should have done it several years ago but to do it now just because there is a higher percentage of people using it is truly pathetic.

I truly hope that either the players or manufacturers tie this up for years in the courts. Even though they have technically not banned the longer putters they are not allowing them to be used in the manner for which they were designed.

This will have negative impact on retail, growing the game and shows the usga to be every bit as out of touch as it has been feared. Do congrats usga, it's just another nail in the coffin.
[/quote]
Hey swingdoc80, what coffin? Golf will be fine and successful long after this ruling. Will you really quit the game over this? Sheesh, play real golf.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='mkc' timestamp='1354134723' post='5991133']
Wow some pretty ludicrous "arguments" being made here.. Someone said what if the governing bodies decide they don't like red numbers? Or black ppl!? What are you smoking and pass it this way?! Please people, get informed about the reasons behind this decision. And as for stats, I think it was Chamblee who put some numbers up on golf central today. Specifically showing guys performance pre-usage and post-usage. It was compelling, although [i]maybe [/i]not the perfect argument as he only showed a few examples.

/Still don't see why people who are using belly/long putters now have to complain about.
[/quote]

Because people have invested time and money into something that all of a sudden some out of touch folks have decided is illegal. It will also end several people's competitive playing.

Again I realise the putters themselves haven't been banned but it's not allowing you to use them as intended. That's what we have to complain about

[daoldguy]

Don't worry be happy, they will not have the lawsuits that will surely follow as sure as day follows night settled by 2016. If this is the best that the USGA can do they need serious help. They have no empirical evidence and went off half cocked on this ruling. And, by the way, I donot use a long or belly putter.

[Carrots]

This is great news!

[spooky]

[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1354124180' post='5990171']
[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1354123383' post='5990111']
Q. For a long putter that I use to anchor to my upper chest........ [b]If I anchor my upper hand to my loose shirt that I pull down tight around my neck, is that ok? This is then anchored to my shirt, NOT my body![/b]
[/quote]


Also, what If I use an "anchor strap" that hangs around my neck and use the lower end of the strap to anchor my upper hand to?
I am not anchoring my upper hand to my body, but to the strap!

RULING NEEDED.
[/quote]
You do understand that trying to find ways around the rules or around the intent of the rules doesn't exactly show you in a good light... I've played with people who try to find ways around the rules, but never more than once. It's meant to be a gentleman's game...

Back onto the main topic - what a good decision - about time and well done them for finally getting it done.

[4thand11]

Watching an athlete like Adam Scott putt with that ridiculous broom handle is reason enough to ban it on the pro level. I don't care if it makes it easier or not, it looks ridiculous. Feels like I am watching someone play shuffleboard, not golf.

At any rate the ruling is about maintaining the spirit of a golf stroke as it is intended in the game - it's not because it's too easy or anything else... it's just not a golf stroke. I think it's a good decision but should take effect much sooner.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='Dano golf' timestamp='1354135160' post='5991191']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354134489' post='5991111']
Congratulations to the usga and the r and a, You have officially succeeded in making the game less fun for several thousand players. All you gave ensured is that you will have added to the constant stream of players giving up the game. If you were going to do it then you should have done it several years ago but to do it now just because there is a higher percentage of people using it is truly pathetic.

I truly hope that either the players or manufacturers tie this up for years in the courts. Even though they have technically not banned the longer putters they are not allowing them to be used in the manner for which they were designed.

This will have negative impact on retail, growing the game and shows the usga to be every bit as out of touch as it has been feared. Do congrats usga, it's just another nail in the coffin.
[/quote]
Hey swingdoc80, what coffin? Golf will be fine and successful long after this ruling. Will you really quit the game over this? Sheesh, play real golf.
[/quote]

Golf memberships down, people taking up the game down, people leaving the game up . Now I appreciate that this is due to a multitude of reasons but banning something that makes the game more fun for a lot of people seems an unusual move to me. (and the PGA of America given th content of their letter to the usga).

I never said I was going to quit but I will certainly have to give up playing in the pro ams and scratch amateur competitions.

What I dislike the most is that by the letter of the law (though these things are always open to interpretation) they should be illegal and I have no idea why when the first players started to use them why it wasn't nipped in the bud then ?. But to do it now just because some high profile players are having success is truly pathetic. The much easier move would be to alter the initial rule to allow anchoring unless proven that it was an unfair advantange (which would never happen). That would keep the retailers, manufacturers and players happy and the rumblings of a group of people who don't like the way it looks would be a small price to pay.

[pingman1]

I think what the USGA/R&A did is complete BS! They can twist it any way they want, this ruling came down simply because a few majors have been one with anchoring. Just look at the Mike Davis statements in 2011 on the Morning Drive.

[Rockminer]

[quote name='born4golf77' timestamp='1354133344' post='5991007']
[quote name='Asleep' timestamp='1354123764' post='5990139']
[quote name='Rockminer' timestamp='1354116477' post='5989395']IMO there is no other way to take it other than he want's credit for it. Every thread that has to do with this subject has been locked by [b]ZAK[/b]. ( many started a long time ago). I agree that one thread would be good, but there we're plenty of good conversations going on, that we're blown up, so that Zak could have the only ulocked thread on the subject.[/quote]

[b]Zak is just doing his job, guys. [/b]

[b]We've had a general policy here to lock or merge threads on the same topic, resulting in one group "conversation" on significant subjects. This is something that had been suggested/requested by many members in the past -- members who don't want to "miss anything" but don't have the time to jump around 3 or 4 different threads to keep up with the discussion.[/b]

[b]Thanks. [/b]
[/quote]

That sounds reasonable, but if you want to be fair about it then keep the ORIGINAL thread up and let Zak post his article in the original thread, either front load it in the beginning of the thread or just add it in chronologically like the rest of us.

By locking the original or most visited thread then YOU/GOLFWRX/ZAK are the ones confusing people trying to keep up with the discussion

Don't insult us, we know Zak is doing his job, but we can also see that his thread/article, which are usually just a re-hash of previous thoughts, an update, announcement or sometimes a thinly veiled ad (some of his cobra articles) always are the threads that gain precedent. I understand he has a job to do, but I think we can have healthy discussion and if a thread is ongoing then keep it going and either add his content chronologically or even load it into the front of the thread and let us know in the title and we can figure it out.
[/quote]

+1
I would have no problem if the threads we're merged. In fact isn't it more confusing now that they are locked? no one can discuss anything other than the decision, without bringing something completely out of context to this thread. ( further confusing people )

I have been a part of this site for almost 2 years. In that time, I have seen very few thread merges.This is the first time I have seen someone with the ability to write a thread and lock every thread with a slight resemblance to the rule coming out. Guess I will just have to hope he doesn't come out with thread on Tiger or any new equipment. It would take a while to lock all the simular threads. It just reeks of, If anyone is going to talk about this subject it's giong to be in my thread. otherwise why lock the other ones, just merge them or leave them alone.

[wobgon]

What do you think would happen if Kucher won the first two majors?

[Cyd]

[quote name='ElVerde' timestamp='1354128981' post='5990579']
I don't really understand the comments saying "ban the Pro V1, ban the 460cc driver." Well, I mean, I understand the comments, I just don't see how it's relevant to THIS discussion.

This is not an equipment rule, this is a technique rule. If you'd like your putter to be made of pure diamond, coated in manatee oil, and be the size of a dinner plate with a 16 foot shaft, FINE! This rule is banning a type of stroke, and has nothing to do with any equipment.
[/quote]

If you ban anchoring, because it provides an unfair advantage, would not the same logic apply to a ball that is manufactured to fly extremely straigh and far.

Would that same logic not apply to a 460CC driver that is manufactured to provide an advantage to strike a ball off the tee?

Again, one must apply the same logic to two and three ball putters.

The same logic should be applied to any equipment that is manufactured that can give one an unfair advantage over others or most importantly the game

What am I missing?

To be truthful, I don't care either way. My point is to show the hypocrisy of it all.

And I have to agree with those who make the point that Richard "Cranium" Lerner is an insufferable boor!

[wobgon]

[quote name='Dano golf' timestamp='1354135160' post='5991191']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354134489' post='5991111']
Congratulations to the usga and the r and a, You have officially succeeded in making the game less fun for several thousand players. All you gave ensured is that you will have added to the constant stream of players giving up the game. If you were going to do it then you should have done it several years ago but to do it now just because there is a higher percentage of people using it is truly pathetic.

I truly hope that either the players or manufacturers tie this up for years in the courts. Even though they have technically not banned the longer putters they are not allowing them to be used in the manner for which they were designed.

This will have negative impact on retail, growing the game and shows the usga to be every bit as out of touch as it has been feared. Do congrats usga, it's just another nail in the coffin.
[/quote]
Hey swingdoc80, what coffin? Golf will be fine and successful long after this ruling. Will you really quit the game over this? Sheesh, play real golf.
[/quote]
Yea play real golf on courses that are playing 1000 yards shorter than they were designed to play because of all the new equipment that i'm sure everyone on this forum uses everytime they step on the first tee.

[Body_Visions]

[quote name='Cyd' timestamp='1354117825' post='5989509']
Ban the Pro V1
Ban 460CC Drivers
Ban Oversized irons
Ban Heavy putters
Ban Two and Three ball putters
Reign in the distance balls fly.

[b]The only reason this rule change is being proposed is because Eldrick is whining and crying. No other reason.[/b]
[/quote]

I don't want to turn this thread into this, but you can guarantee if he used one, there would be no ban.

[spitfisher]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1354137903' post='5991451']
What do you think would happen if Kucher won the first two majors?
[/quote]

Simple, Nike would have offered him an ungodly amount of money to play their clubs and their would be over 6 different threads discussing it. And tiger would be all smiles with him. Fake smiles in front of the camera, but smiles none the less.

[307golf]

[quote]What do you think would happen if Kucher won the first two majors? [/quote]

LOL! Lots of USGA head scratching

[Cyd]

I only play blades and persimmon, but thats just me.