SkyPro - really impressive

[_Fred_]

Hi Morini,

If you are talking about the pro swing Scottishpedro was referring to, he shared it (#1047)
[url="http://golfskypro.herokuapp.com/swings_archives/2985"]http://golfskypro.he...s_archives/2985[/url]

Enjoy while waiting for the SkyPro app update :-)

Cheers,

_Fred_

[ParHunter]

One thing I would love to see (apart from point 3 in Morini's post) is biofeedback as they are doing with the k-vest. At the moment you get the feedback after a real swing but in order to learn positions (e.g. takeaway positions, top of backswing etc) it would be great if you could slowly move the club to a specific position you've set on the phone and if you are in that spot you get a positive feedback (a green light, a sound etc). That way you can ingrain certain positions in slow motion. You could even have a set of positions to reach in sequence, half way back, top of backswing, half way down, impact.

That would of course mean that the sensor data needs to be send to and processed by the iPhone in real time. I am not sure whether the current hardware supports this.

[TravAz]

[quote name='Morini' timestamp='1393903908' post='8792511']
Agreed that the target line is the elephant in the room. I trust the hardware, but sometimes I wonder if I really could be that much inside, or if misaligned the club.

Swingbyte does something like what BHB1 suggests.I imagine that the simplest solution is some type of mechanical alignment aid that is shaped like a capital T. The stem is pointed down the intended target line,and the leading edge of the club head is placed perpendicular to this by lining up against the top part of the T. This solution is independent of hardware or software. The camera solution is neat, and I do believe Gord asked if it was something people wanted.

What is disappointing to me is the lack of pro swings, and other more advanced instructions on how to use the device to improve the game. I mean how hard is it get a pro to take a swing and send it? We are a year on, and right now the only pro swing is the Natalie Gulbis, and the anonymous ex tour player somebody was kind enough to upload. Slightly harder but not unreasonable would have been for Michael Breed or similar to spend a weekend producing a video about how to use the device. Surely Skygolf has enough resources at their disposal to make some of this happen. Yes, it costs money, but I am sure that sales would have been much higher had there been more resources for novice users. However, the improved checkpoint information was a good first step, so hopefully there is much more on the way.
[/quote]

1st point - Using any sort of camera is still going to be dependent on the user setting the camera up perfectly. IF they put a camera IN the skypro, facing the clubhead, it could capture a known 90 degree angle - the club face, and calibrate that against an alignment stick on the ground. Now the potential user error is eliminated.

2nd point - There are several Michael Breed videos on the "checkpoints" page (at the bottom of each "Checkpoint" on the golfskypro website), discussing various checkpoints - looks like they were uploaded a couple of weeks ago:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f1Jv14Y7Au4[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gn08NNf0DV8[/media]

etc...

[silliwilli]

The new app is now available! [size=4] [/size]

[BHB1]

[quote name='silliwilli' timestamp='1393968533' post='8797845']
The new app is now available!
[/quote]

Just downloaded it. Now for a look and perhaps a test tomorrow.

BHB1

[slowcelica]

I downloaded it, I like the new look I like how the pro swings are separated out now, I wish the import swings would work the same way though.

The tips are cool, but did anyone else's sound not work I the videos by Michael breed?

[Morini]

Awesome for sure. Played with the putting function only so far. On my carpet, the inches/second consistently predicts how far the ball will roll. It appears to be very accurate. Using my puttometer device, I determined that 106 inches/sec putt will roll 30 feet give or take a couple of inches on a perfectly flat stimp 10 surface. Will play with the path later tonight.

I presume that I can use the putting function for short chips as well.Unless it freaks out because of the loft.

[carrera]

Downloaded the update tonight. A bit glitchy...trouble connecting w/ bluetooth, screen crashed a few times when I touched an error message to get more info, and I couldn't figure out the face angle at the top message...I was "very bowed" along a wide spectrum of backswings no matter what I tried. Also I couldn't get the checkpoints on the website to work...I'd click on a particular checkpoint (like face angle at the top) to get more info, and nothing would happen. Chrome for Mac.

I like the look of the update...hope tonight was just growing pains.

[_Fred_]

Hi,

I downloaded the app but was not able to test it yet on the driving or putting range.
Nevertheless, it looks very nice and the extra info on the checkpoints is really great!

Looking into my previous swings, I have 2 questions :[list]
[*]In the overview, some of my swings have a exclamation mark but it is greyed out. When I click on the swing and then click back on the overview, the exclamation mark is not greyed out anymore and I now see also a number of alerts. Any idea why it is like this?
[*]In the same overview, I cannot find anymore a way to edit my swings : change name, add description, etc. Am I looking at the wrong place?
[/list]
For the rest, I really like the pro swings! I hope they will get extended and it would also be nice if we could also add swings to that group from (teaching) pro's that we know and who are willing to make a swing with SkyPro for us :-)

Cheers,

_Fred_

[BHB1]

[quote name='_Fred_' timestamp='1394005318' post='8801529']
Hi,

I downloaded the app but was not able to test it yet on the driving or putting range.
Nevertheless, it looks very nice and the extra info on the checkpoints is really great!

Looking into my previous swings, I have 2 questions :[list]
[*]In the overview, some of my swings have a exclamation mark but it is greyed out. When I click on the swing and then click back on the overview, the exclamation mark is not greyed out anymore and I now see also a number of alerts. Any idea why it is like this?
[*]In the same overview, I cannot find anymore a way to edit my swings : change name, add description, etc. Am I looking at the wrong place?
[/list]
For the rest, I really like the pro swings! I hope they will get extended and it would also be nice if we could also add swings to that group from (teaching) pro's that we know and who are willing to make a swing with SkyPro for us :-)

Cheers,

_Fred_
[/quote]

Hi

Not had the greyed out problem, everything is normal there.

To rename or comment on the swings, in normal overview mode, tap the 'Swing xxx' at the top of the page. There is an orange 'Add Comment' there.

You can rename the swing in overview with the 'Rename ' label to the left of the Alerts notice. It is better because the old swing name does not disappear.

Swipe the overview page up and to the right to get to the old Library Page. Then Edit and Share will give access to eMail export Twitter, Facebook, etc.

The filter is accessed via the Library view but I think Gord said he had temporarily disabled the Calendar function because of some bugs/tight time target to update release.

Takes a little while to get used to the new look but it is more 'airie' and the inclusion of more comments and help on the alerts is very useful. Also like the checkpoints now grouped together in a more sensible order.

Also the inclusion of the 3 Pro swings for comparison is good.

Haven't messed with the putter app yet so will try later today.

Like Carrera, I am getting a Face Angle at Top alert and Wrist Very Bowed, but that alert was presumably disabled previously. Even some of the Pro swings suffer from this alert! The help is not very 'helpful' as it doesn't give any guidance on normal values. Bit confused on that one at present. If I knew what a good face angle at the top should be, I could edit the Alert Settings.

BHB1

[BHB1]

[quote name='slowcelica' timestamp='1393975909' post='8798689']
I downloaded it, I like the new look I like how the pro swings are separated out now, I wish the import swings would work the same way though.

The tips are cool, but did anyone else's sound not work I the videos by Michael breed?
[/quote]

No problems with sound on the videos here.

The M Breed video on the Take Away Angle @ Half Back is corrupted with orange mask and severe ghosting.

The link to the video Face Angle @ Top is not working properly.

The link to the video Shaft Direction @ Top is not working properly.

The info points for the Putters seem to be working all OK

(Dell PC Laptop with Firefox)

These videos are useful for learner golfers.

Hopefully Gord will be checking in on the forum soon to see feedback and can get someone to sort out these video bugs.

BHB1

EDIT

These problems with the videos not working are on the GolfSkyPro Internet website. However, they work fine from the SkyPro app on the iPad. Sound is also OK though I had to up the volume a bit.

[Highsididy]

[center]I am seriously considing buying this product. In this update does it happen to measure angle of attck for say a driver? Also would it measure club face angle at impact? Thanks everyone for you reviews and comments so far it, hopefully i will join in soon!!![/center]

[_Fred_]

Hi BHB1,

Thanks for the input! You are right for the name edit and comments... I was focussing on the "old way of working" and it confused me a little :-)
Regarding the greyed out swings, see the attachments. I thought it was linked to the alerts that were not activated by default in the previous release because I think that for those swings, I initially had no alerts mentionned.
Now, I have the same alert as you : wrist very bowed (face angle @ top)

What I miss with the pro swings is which club they were using, but the idea is really great!

As a small aestetic detail, I also preferred the videocamera icon compared with the new photocamera icon. As we see a swing in 3D motion, I thought that the videocamera icon is more relevant... At first, I thought that the photocamera icon would trigger to camera on my iPhone in order to take a picture to put like the pro's pictures :-p
[Note : This remark shows that I am nicely impressed by the update because I have really look into the details to find something to say about it ;-)]

Cheers,

_Fred_

[DaveMac]

My app updated automatically, not sure on the new look and operation, I liked the old feature to view and compare swings from the library list. I also liked the pull down alerts ribbon, seemed a quicker way to view swing details than the new interface. Ultimately I will get used to the new interface, it is nice to see some pro swings, strange how Natalie Gulbis's old driver swing (86 mph) has become invalid.

There does seem to be an issue with no sound on video at present, I am not sure about sound in groove mode because I haven't captured any swings as yet. Date based filtering seems to be missing as well.

I think the Dissmiss button on the library probably is no the best label for this operation perhaps, back, finish or close are more appropriate.

[BHB1]

[quote name='_Fred_' timestamp='1394018195' post='8801783']
Hi BHB1,

Thanks for the input! You are right for the name edit and comments... I was focussing on the "old way of working" and it confused me a little :-)
Regarding the greyed out swings, see the attachments. I thought it was linked to the alerts that were not activated by default in the previous release because I think that for those swings, I initially had no alerts mentionned.
Now, I have the same alert as you : wrist very bowed (face angle @ top)

What I miss with the pro swings is which club they were using, but the idea is really great!

As a small aestetic detail, I also preferred the videocamera icon compared with the new photocamera icon. As we see a swing in 3D motion, I thought that the videocamera icon is more relevant... At first, I thought that the photocamera icon would trigger to camera on my iPhone in order to take a picture to put like the pro's pictures :-p
[Note : This remark shows that I am nicely impressed by the update because I have really look into the details to find something to say about it ;-)]

Cheers,

_Fred_
[/quote]

Hi Fred

You can see the Pro's club if you just tap on Bob Goalby's swing at the top of the overview page. That gives all the data on club head speed, tempo, etc. and lists the club as a 7 Iron. Likewise Bill Haas's club was an 8 Iron and Natalie Gulbis used a driver.

I noticed that Natalie's old swing had become invalid too! Some sort of censorship for a swing she wasn't happy about ;-)

You're probably correct in saying the non greyed out alerts were the new Face Angle@Top, which weren't activated before.

Hopefully we will see some video capture in the forthcoming app updates.

BHB1

[BHB1]

[quote name='DaveMac' timestamp='1394020577' post='8801861']

Date based filtering seems to be missing as well.

[/quote]

Gord told me that the Calendar/Date Based Filtering was omitted in this upgrade because there were some bugs in it and there wasn't time to sort them before release date.

I don't seem to have sound problems. I am using an iPad4.

BHB1

[Star Mason]

Is Bill Haas' wrist really "very bowed". Based on the face angle, I would say it has to be cupped - 60 degrees from horizontal. I know I have a cupped wrist and measure around 70 degrees.

[ParHunter]

I played around with the new app today, first putting and then on the range. I really like the new focus mode, now we just need an iPad version where you can see the focus mode and the swing on one screen.

The putting mode is cool. It tells you amongst other things how open/close your putter face is relative to address and it also gives you a distance you would have holed out on assuming the face at address was perfectly aligned.
So e.g. I had a putt where the face was 0.3 degrees open from address and with that I would have holed a 33 footer. On another putt I had it 1 degree open and with that I would have holed a 10 footer, 1.5 degrees and it would have been only 7 foot.

[_Fred_]

Hi BHB1,

You are correct (again) on the club info for the pro's. :-)
I can also confirm that the previous imported swing of Nathalie Gulbis is not longer functioning

Cheers,

_Fred_

[DaveMac]

Some of you might notice that the new improved impact filtering algorithm is [s]pretty aggressively deleting[/s] recalculating swings which have an high impact speed spike, might have been nice, to give the user the option to retain the swings because I for one had some good positions on swings that had a miss read impact speed.

EDIT: I got this wrong it looks like the swings are being recalculated with the new algorithm and naturally labeled with the new swing speed, which is much lower than it was was the spike in place.

I still have the sound issue on my ipad mini retna.

Just in case all my comments seem like a moan, I like the new swing speed comparison which shifts the graphs to a synchronised impact position, this makes swing comparison easier. Focus mode is a very useful addition.

[Morini]

Just to satisfy my own curiousity, I am in the process of verifying the putting data generated by the Skypro. I feel like a kid in candy store, because I have always been drooling over the prospect of having access to tools like SAM Puttlab, VERY expensive device. If the numbers are reasonably close, the Skypro will by a huge margin be the best value I have ever spent on game improvement.

I verified the putter head speed right away, error is very small, within a few percent. I tested the path by simply using an elevated alignment stick as a guide, and the path came to 0 degrees every time. Check.

Will look at face angle next. Next I will film a putt from different angles with high speed video to check tempo and also how closely the animation matches the

Here is some putting info for you stats geeks out there:

Werner and Greig's research found that .standard deviation for angles when putting is 1.718 + 0.0039*handicap degrees. In other words, a scratch golfer will be off by 1.718 degrees or less 68% of the time and a 10 handicapper would be 1.757 off.

This includes aim, so it is a combination of aim, path, face, and impact position on the face. It is based on flat surface so does not include break.

Nielsen report that elite golfers have face angle deviation of 0.6 degrees, with a standard deviation of .22 degrees. In other words, 68% of the time, the face was between .38 degrees and .82 degrees. The path deviation was 0.8 degrees, and impact of of 2.9 mm. This was relative to target direction, and thus includes aiming error. Not sure why the gap is so large between WG's . golfer and Nielson's elite golfer. If I had to choose, I'd go with Nielsons because they are more recent.

The optimal numbers based on Nielsons research was 1.6 closing of face from transition to impact (back to square), and downswing time of 325 milliseconds.

[ParHunter]

Is it just me or are the videos only showing in portrait mode? The videos itself are shot in landscape mode but the app is only ever in portrait mode, that means you only have a very small video with big black bars on the top and bottom.

Btw. how do you post pictures? There doesn't seem to be an attach button and the 'My Media' doesn't let me upload anything either.

[_Fred_]

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1394035932' post='8803281']
Btw. how do you post pictures? There doesn't seem to be an attach button and the 'My Media' doesn't let me upload anything either.
[/quote]

Hi ParHunter,

Pictures can be attached via the "More Reply Options" button.

Chees,

_Fred_

[ParHunter]

Okay just to show what I meant with the video and the black bars. You can zoom in but then you only see a small part of the video
[attachment=2101357:photo.PNG]

Thanks _Fred_ for the tip

[slowcelica]

Yea mine won't flip to landscape either. I did figure out the sound issues, I had my phone on vibrate, turn my ringer on and the sound is there. Which is weird because all my other apps like you tube, and videos in Safari have sound even if my phone is on vibrate.

[BHB1]

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1394037543' post='8803485']
Okay just to show what I meant with the video and the black bars. You can zoom in but then you only see a small part of the video
[attachment=2101357:photo.PNG]

Thanks _Fred_ for the tip
[/quote]

Using iPad4

M Breed videos are downloaded on the fly to the SkyPro app, so you don't get them unless you are on a WiFi network (probably not downloaded on a Cellular network to conserve capacity/costs). However, if I rotate the iPad by 90 deg to landscape mode, the picture does NOT flip round by 90 deg to fill the screen. I don't think any part of the SkyPro app will allow a flip to landscape mode, so therein lies the possible problem.

Re the aggressive algorithm that Gord said was going to be implemented to counter the false high swing speed readings when hitting fat/grazing the ground before impact, I see that the original values are displayed and then immediately updated when opened. Interestingly, some of my slower swings have increased in speed by 2 mph (Gord hinted that the previous app may understate club head speed by a couple of mph under some circumstances due to the flex of the shaft), some unchanged and of course the high false values reduced. This makes the swing speeds much more consistent, so another improvement.

I am a trifle confused by M Breed's video on the Takeaway Angle @ Half Back. I keep my arms straight at horizontal shaft position, so my hands are way outside M Breed's position of over the right foot (Right Handed Golfer), but without weight transfer to my back foot. i.e. I c0ck my wrist much later and my Pro is happy with that on video. Something else to discuss at my lessons!

Putter. Tried out the putter briefly yesterday.

First problem was the sensor would not fix tightly to the putter shaft (Ping Scottsdale Greyhawk) so either I need to wrap some tape around the top of the putter shaft or fit extra rubber strips to the SkyPro Sensor clamp.

Played with lean of the putter shaft. M Breed favours the club face with negative or zero loft to eliminate backspin. I understand the theory of this. However, Ping, etc. design the putter to have a small 2 Deg loft and I am sure they have not arrived at this figure accidentally! Tried both ways, but no obvious difference in ball roll, though the practice greens are still recovering from the winter.
Lots of data to think about from this app.

BHB1

[DaveMac]

GORD, any chance when you release the first patch, for this version you get the swing file meta data saved once an old swing has been viewed. I have this strange behavior were the displayed swing swingspeed is changed by the new algorithm when I select a swing to view.

I thought this would happen only once for all of my old swings but it happens every time I view an old swing. I assume the new calculation metadata is not being automatically saved once the swing is closed again.

Simply put this new calculation is not being permanently stored.

EDIT
Put the new app into shot service tonight and I ran into a consistent error when calibrating a club. The calibration process completed and when I tried to select a different club nothing happened, the start swing button was unresponsive and after a few seconds the app crashed. Once restarted the calibration process completed OK but failed again if a new club was used (same process)

[TravAz]

How is everyones putter data looking? I can't do anything reasonable to achieve a non-closed face at impact. I'm not sure I was ready to have to consider D-Plane with the putter. Lol!

[silliwilli]

Mine is about 1* open at impact...I made a minor adjustment and can get that down to 0.2-0.4* open. Seems spot on...I had a putter lesson a while back where it came to light i tend to aim left and push putts. Data seems spot on.

[potatoshooter]

Learned my putts could not look any more different than that of Michael Breed's. my face opens upto 4-6* on the backswing and closes back down to .5-2.5* open at impact. gives me something to work on.

Gord- Thanks for the continued updates on the forum and to the app for your customers. I like the focus mode feature- simple and very useful!

Seems like the new algorithm to account for fat shots also require a bigger/harder impact. It used to be able to recreate foam ball hits but the majority of my indoor swings are now greyed out saying it can't be reconstructed.