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R1 V1 vs R1 V2 on the Launch Monitor: Which one performs better? Tuesaday Update: Getting fit for th


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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361244285' post='6455769']
CP-

I'm not an expert on this, but wouldn't the V2 head weighing in at 8g lighter also make the shaft play stiffer in the V2? I have the 2-Dot version of this head and I had to add 2 10g weights to bring the club up to the correct swing weight and also make up for the lighter head.

For me, it's night and day between the V1 and the 2-dot head. My SS is pretty high, so maybe that's why I like the 2-dot better, but who knows.
[/quote]

I agree that's why I asked swing weight of both clubs with shaft inserted, to me this isn't a real comparison but I don't wanna be hammered as a hater again....but yes we aren't comparing apples to apples here.

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Wow... Outstanding post CP! I love reading stuff like this!

Also, thank you for all the time you invested in testing and your write up... Awesome!

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[quote name='scottvw13' timestamp='1361244240' post='6455765']
Awesome info there CP

Wouldn't you agree that the V2 was a raw head, intentionally light so that heltmelt could be added to suit the end user?

It is almost as if you had an unfinished head...
[/quote]

yes absolutely, its just that, a raw head made so that it can be built to spec for the individual who uses it. by individual i mean pro, thats why i hotmelted 4g into it to bring it up to a better weight. still a touch light

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361244285' post='6455769']
CP-

I'm not an expert on this, but wouldn't the V2 head weighing in at 8g lighter also make the shaft play stiffer in the V2? I have the 2-Dot version of this head and I had to add 2 10g weights to bring the club up to the correct swing weight and also make up for the lighter head.

For me, it's night and day between the V1 and the 2-dot head. My SS is pretty high, so maybe that's why I like the 2-dot better, but who knows.
[/quote]

im not expert either but it makes sense that it would, not much weight at the end allowing it to flex as much. sound around the way your thinking too? my swing speed varies 100-105 but i load the shaft alot and require a 70g shaft, 66g is just about as light as i can go and still control the spin. but i do like the V2 a lot still got to mess around with it a lot and get it perfect

[quote name='TMBob' timestamp='1361244625' post='6455813']
Thanks CP...nice job

Dd you know have any extra weights to get them on a level playing field?
[/quote]

i have a bunch of weights i can mess with. i can either hotmelt the V2 some more, or I can take the 10g out of the V1 and replace it with a 4g. while putting 12g in the V2 toe and 4g in the V2 heal making them weigh nearly the same...since i put 4g of hot melt in the V1 tonight it made it 12g heavier. confusing i know, i have to re weigh everything myself now since I've messed around so much

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What's the SW on each driver w that shaft? 8 grams difference is the difference in D0 and D4, which is huge....If both heads don't weigh the same and the SW is different on each setup then you honestly wasted a lot of time typing and swinging....

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Interesting results maybe your friend needs a heavier SW in the V2. It would be nice if you could find someone swinging at a 115 average to hit both clubs and see if the results remain the same.

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[quote name='TLfan' timestamp='1361245235' post='6455879']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361244285' post='6455769']
CP-

I'm not an expert on this, but wouldn't the V2 head weighing in at 8g lighter also make the shaft play stiffer in the V2? I have the 2-Dot version of this head and I had to add 2 10g weights to bring the club up to the correct swing weight and also make up for the lighter head.

For me, it's night and day between the V1 and the 2-dot head. My SS is pretty high, so maybe that's why I like the 2-dot better, but who knows.
[/quote]

I agree that's why I asked swing weight of both clubs with shaft inserted, to me this isn't a real comparison but I don't wanna be hammered as a hater again....but yes we aren't comparing apples to apples here.
[/quote]

if i remember all my numbers correctly, my R1 V1 weighs like 207g+/- and the V2 weighed 195g before i added 4g of hot melt, making it 199g. ill have to check the swing weight tomorrow or wednesday when i go back into the shop. but then i put the 12g in the V2 brining the total to 201 and difference to 6g.

thats if i remember all my numbers correctly

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You don't spin or launch the V2 enough. Angle of decent is a little low too. Your friends smash would improve if the SW was heavier, his numbers are more ideal than yours....not surprised, he is a pro. The V2 head is going to spin 4-500 less and launch about a degree lower. Heads are lighter if you obtained raw, but they are always brought up to weight with hot melt. Tour Pro's don't have any problem hitting the center of the face and produce more consistent impact properties, therefore a smaller head was made for a look they liked and the c.o.g's were more favorable for pro's. A lot of the bellyachers on this site about the V2 vs V1 seems to have bought into the Kool Aid from Todd Thrun that you need sub 2000 spin 14* of launch and 3* open heads and X-Flex shafts.....

With that said....still a pretty decent review or should I say thesis...lol.

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Another amazing job CP! Well done....That's why this site is so awesome, we get guys to do this type of research and testing so the rest of us can spend a little less money on "the search".

It sucks when people try to bag on your test or tell you a better way to do it. We should all just appreciate his time for doing this.

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[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1361247359' post='6456077']
You don't spin or launch the V2 enough. Angle of decent is a little low too. Your friends smash would improve if the SW was heavier, his numbers are more ideal than yours....not surprised, he is a pro. The V2 head is going to spin 4-500 less and launch about a degree lower. Heads are lighter if you obtained raw, but they are always brought up to weight with hot melt. Tour Pro's don't have any problem hitting the center of the face and produce more consistent impact properties, therefore a smaller head was made for a look they liked and the c.o.g's were more favorable for pro's. A lot of the bellyachers on this site about the V2 vs V1 seems to have bought into the Kool Aid from Todd Thrun that you need sub 2000 spin 14* of launch and 3* open heads and X-Flex shafts.....

With that said....still a pretty decent review or should I say thesis...lol.
[/quote]

again this wasnt a fitting, thesis was a good way to explain it. true a higher swing weight for him would allow him to hit it better, he said he couldnt feel the club head. both of us are professionals though. i just wasnt hitting the V2 ideally. i actually had to turn down the loft when i was on the course after i got settled in with it. i launched it much better and will get some more readings up later. i noted i wasnt launching it well at all and that caused me to lose a lot of distance but once i settled in with it i was fine and actually started doing what he was doing, hitting it to high.

it was raw, so i put 4g of hot melt into it and then a 12g weight in the heal

theres a little more to why they made the V2 but i wont get into that...

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What kind of launch monitor are you using.....I want one just like that 102 mph = almost 290. Not only will I sell more clubs with it, it'll make me feel really good about myself.

In all seriousness I find my R1 to be much much much lower launching and lower spinning than my R11. I've got it set at 12 degrees and it launches a full 2 degrees lower than my R11 which is set at 11.5.

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[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1361249443' post='6456283']
What kind of launch monitor are you using.....I want one just like that 102 mph = almost 290. Not only will I sell more clubs with it, it'll make me feel really good about myself.

In all seriousness I find my R1 to be much much much lower launching and lower spinning than my R11. I've got it set at 12 degrees and it launches a full 2 degrees lower than my R11 which is set at 11.5.
[/quote]

I focus on the carry number not the total. It always says around 20 yards of roll which I don't get in VA. Realistically I swing 102 and carry it 260ish on a good day.

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Great post CP... Still in limbo on what driver to get this year, R1, XHot Pro or 913 d3!!!

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[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361246026' post='6455951']

im not expert either but it makes sense that it would, not much weight at the end allowing it to flex as much. sound around the way your thinking too? my swing speed varies 100-105 but i load the shaft alot and require a 70g shaft, 66g is just about as light as i can go and still control the spin. but i do like the V2 a lot still got to mess around with it a lot and get it perfect

[/quote]

CP,

As a professional and a club fitter, shouldn't you know this stuff?

With the weights of both heads varying so much, even with the same shaft, I'm thinking the V2 must have played at least a flex stiffer. JW would be someone I would trust to conduct this type of comparison.

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I've seen useless Trackman... The units are only as good as the fitter and who calibrates them.

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1361249815' post='6456311']
Looks like Flightscope. I've yet to find a Flightscope that gives accurate readings....I love when they give the double spin and 6000 rpms of spin is really 3000 rpms. Trackman is still the top dog and is worth the money if you can afford it.
[/quote]
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Tour vs retail = nonsense. Great write up CP. It's what so many people have been saying for years. If you have a good setup, retail is every bit as long as tour.

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[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361248043' post='6456149']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1361247359' post='6456077']
You don't spin or launch the V2 enough. Angle of decent is a little low too. Your friends smash would improve if the SW was heavier, his numbers are more ideal than yours....not surprised, he is a pro. The V2 head is going to spin 4-500 less and launch about a degree lower. Heads are lighter if you obtained raw, but they are always brought up to weight with hot melt. Tour Pro's don't have any problem hitting the center of the face and produce more consistent impact properties, therefore a smaller head was made for a look they liked and the c.o.g's were more favorable for pro's. A lot of the bellyachers on this site about the V2 vs V1 seems to have bought into the Kool Aid from Todd Thrun that you need sub 2000 spin 14* of launch and 3* open heads and X-Flex shafts.....

With that said....still a pretty decent review or should I say thesis...lol.
[/quote]

again this wasnt a fitting, thesis was a good way to explain it. true a higher swing weight for him would allow him to hit it better, he said he couldnt feel the club head. both of us are professionals though. i just wasnt hitting the V2 ideally. i actually had to turn down the loft when i was on the course after i got settled in with it. i launched it much better and will get some more readings up later. i noted i wasnt launching it well at all and that caused me to lose a lot of distance but once i settled in with it i was fine and actually started doing what he was doing, hitting it to high.

it was raw, so i put 4g of hot melt into it and then a 12g weight in the heal

theres a little more to why they made the V2 but i wont get into that...
[/quote]

Why not? There is also a difference in club professionals and scratch golfer/tour professionals, as states above apples to apples would have took the cake. This review just seems thrown together and screens taken pics of and posted because the numbers were so close together to make there seem to be not much difference in the two. If there wasn't much difference TM would've stuck with their 1 loft technology, then we get the "I can't get into that" statement. You can spew it, there are people posting on here who work for TM, they can verify the info, you aren't the only one in this thread who has the scoop. I am in no way hating or hammering you personally but this review was thrown off with 2 totally different clubs being tested then some results being posted. I figured as a "pro/club pro/fitter" we would have at least had the same SW clubs and comparing apples to apples before posting a review.

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Lets take a step back - CP took time to provide a write up and testing numbers and we should thank him for that. He provided more information then most. Maybe the two clubs were not exactly the same, but this review can provide a baseline comparison. Also each person will hit these clubs differently. I still believe this club would fit me much better than the retail because of past TM drivers. The R11 retail was unplayable for me but the R11 dot was great for me. I also had a superdeep and launched and spun that to the moon also. I have not had a chance to hit the R1 V1 or V2 but hope I can sometime soon.

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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361251307' post='6456431']


CP,

As a professional and a club fitter, shouldn't you know this stuff?

With the weights of both heads varying so much, even with the same shaft, I'm thinking the V2 must have played at least a flex stiffer. JW would be someone I would trust to conduct this type of comparison.
[/quote]

teaching professional, still learning more and more about fitting, and teaching, as i go on. i work with juniors golfers and run junior golf tournaments mostly during the summer so i dont do much fitting as of now.

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[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1361280188' post='6457263']
Lets take a step back - CP took time to provide a write up and testing numbers and we should thank him for that. He provided more information then most. Maybe the two clubs were not exactly the same, but this review can provide a baseline comparison. Also each person will hit these clubs differently. I still believe this club would fit me much better than the retail because of past TM drivers. The R11 retail was unplayable for me but the R11 dot was great for me. I also had a superdeep and launched and spun that to the moon also. I have not had a chance to hit the R1 V1 or V2 but hope I can sometime soon.
[/quote]

thank you

this was not supposed to be an apples to apples comparison it was just supposed to be a close comparison. i got the V2 weight where "I" felt good holding the club and waggling it, then i handed it over to the other pro and had him hit it. i was aiming for 200g head weight. i wasnt aiming for making it perfect, because i wont. The whole point of the V2 is make it that way you want it to be and get it custom to you. So i did, but then felt it would be better if i had someone else hit it so people wouldn't complain I was lying. Instead i get a certain person complaining it was a waste of time and i dont know what im doing. No matter what I'll complaints my comparison isnt perfect enough. Its snowing today but if it gets nicer I'll head back in to the course and get the swing weights correct with each other.

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[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1361275735' post='6457047']
A 2 dot head was mentioned. What is the 2 dot head? Is this another version of the V2?
[/quote]

Yes from what I've heard there is 4
V1: Retail head
V2
V2 one dot
V2 2 dot

Something about CG locations if i remember correctly

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[quote name='NotEvenJail26 ' timestamp='1361282197' post='6457429']
See if you can get your guy to hit the heads at the same swingweight. 8g = 4 sw points and for a good player, that will certainly change feel. 1 or 2 points I doubt he would notice but 4 is pretty big. Great insight though, all the same. Thanks.
[/quote]

that was my thinking as to why he said he couldnt feel the club head, too light and he has a long swing so that definitely didnt help. im going to get the V2 head up to a D2-D3 swing weight and re test

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@CP - Got it.. wasn't trying to be difficult. But I really do want to see an apples to apples comparison of the two. I think ultimately I will have to do my own eventually with the head I have.

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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361286325' post='6457791']
@CP - Got it.. wasn't trying to be difficult. But I really do want to see an apples to apples comparison of the two. I think ultimately I will have to do my own eventually with the head I have.
[/quote]

supposed to be 45 today around 3pm, ill head back and to some more tests with appropriate swing weights

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[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1361256881' post='6456681']
Tour vs retail = nonsense. Great write up CP. It's what so many people have been saying for years. If you have a good setup, retail is every bit as long as tour.
[/quote]

No no. You have it all wrong. Tour is always better....and companies just troll the retail market with commercials and crappy clubs hoping no one will notice. Lol. Finally someone posts something of merit in one of these never ending Tour vs. Retail debates.

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So what's the idea then? Tour or retail doesn't matter it's the ability of the golfer and specific needs of said golfer to be fit into the correct equipment?

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[quote name='TLfan' timestamp='1361278719' post='6457169']
[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361248043' post='6456149']


again this wasnt a fitting, thesis was a good way to explain it. true a higher swing weight for him would allow him to hit it better, he said he couldnt feel the club head. both of us are professionals though. i just wasnt hitting the V2 ideally. i actually had to turn down the loft when i was on the course after i got settled in with it. i launched it much better and will get some more readings up later. i noted i wasnt launching it well at all and that caused me to lose a lot of distance but once i settled in with it i was fine and actually started doing what he was doing, hitting it to high.

it was raw, so i put 4g of hot melt into it and then a 12g weight in the heal

theres a little more to why they made the V2 but i wont get into that...
[/quote]

Why not? There is also a difference in club professionals and scratch golfer/tour professionals, as states above apples to apples would have took the cake. This review just seems thrown together and screens taken pics of and posted because the numbers were so close together to make there seem to be not much difference in the two. If there wasn't much difference TM would've stuck with their 1 loft technology, then we get the "I can't get into that" statement. You can spew it, there are people posting on here who work for TM, they can verify the info, you aren't the only one in this thread who has the scoop. I am in no way hating or hammering you personally but this review was thrown off with 2 totally different clubs being tested then some results being posted. I figured as a "pro/club pro/fitter" we would have at least had the same SW clubs and comparing apples to apples before posting a review.
[/quote]

Give the guy a break. I think the overall point of his post was to say that maybe the tour issue stuff really may not the end all be all. It as much as any other head is only as good as it is fit, and beyond that it comes down to feel. I agree that there may be some inconsistencies in the swingweights, but I appreciate anyone taking the time to try to put together their experiences and testing.

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      Early in hand photos of the new GT2 models t the truck.  As soon as they show up on the range in player's bags we'll get some better from the top photos and hopefully some comparison photos against the last model.
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 293 replies
    • 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Monday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Keith Mitchell - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Rafa Campos - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      R Squared - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Martin Laird - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Paul Haley - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Eric Cole's newest custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      New Super Stroke Marvel comic themed grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Ben Taylor's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan's Axis 1 putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Chris Kirk's new Callaway Opus wedges - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      ProTC irons - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Dragon Skin 360 grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cobra prototype putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      SeeMore putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 0 replies
    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
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