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R1 V1 vs R1 V2 on the Launch Monitor: Which one performs better? Tuesaday Update: Getting fit for th


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[quote name='PingDrv00' timestamp='1361291697' post='6458375']
[quote name='TLfan' timestamp='1361278719' post='6457169']


Why not? There is also a difference in club professionals and scratch golfer/tour professionals, as states above apples to apples would have took the cake. This review just seems thrown together and screens taken pics of and posted because the numbers were so close together to make there seem to be not much difference in the two. If there wasn't much difference TM would've stuck with their 1 loft technology, then we get the "I can't get into that" statement. You can spew it, there are people posting on here who work for TM, they can verify the info, you aren't the only one in this thread who has the scoop. I am in no way hating or hammering you personally but this review was thrown off with 2 totally different clubs being tested then some results being posted. I figured as a "pro/club pro/fitter" we would have at least had the same SW clubs and comparing apples to apples before posting a review.
[/quote]

Give the guy a break. I think the overall point of his post was to say that maybe the tour issue stuff really may not the end all be all. It as much as any other head is only as good as it is fit, and beyond that it comes down to feel. I agree that there may be some inconsistencies in the swingweights, but I appreciate anyone taking the time to try to put together their experiences and testing.
[/quote]


thanks for that. like i said it wasnt an optimally fit driver for him, now comes the time to get him fit.

now that we have base line numbers we are going to go back and get him properly fit. get the swing weight up to a D2-D3 range in the V2. The point was at first to find out what the difference is, now I want to get him optimally fit into each head and see which one performs better. I've got a feeling from all the tests and from the feedback from you guys we can get his smash factor up if he was actually able to feel the club head, and then we can really see how the V2 performs. and get an accurate comparison.

my question is, can we get him averaging 270 carry with the V2? thats my goal, he was at 265 with the V1, and 258 with the V2.

i think we can squeeze out some extra yardage. so now things are just starting to get fun

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Swingweight could be a factor but I'm hoping its not. That would lend credibility to the crowd that's been saying tour issue drivers are in fact harder to hit than retail. Saves me $$$ in the long run, I'm scratch and a driver with a smaller sweet spot doesn't appeal to me. #teamretaildriver #stillwanttheB's

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I've hit dozens and dozens of tour issue drivers over the years with virtually all the latest and greatest shafts. Sorry tour ho's but retail = tour once properly dialed in. Tour feel comes from hot melt. It's funny how the tour crowd is scratching their heads and trying to come up with ways to improve the tour head #'s. Even if the swingweight is brought up and if that's going to even help, the numbers will not be skewed so much that the retail head becomes inferior.

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[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1361295884' post='6458815']
I've hit dozens and dozens of tour issue drivers over the years with virtually all the latest and greatest shafts. [b]Sorry tour ho's but retail = tour once properly dialed in. [/b]Tour feel comes from hot melt. It's funny how the tour crowd is scratching their heads and trying to come up with ways to improve the tour head #'s. Even if the swingweight is brought up and if that's going to even help, the numbers will not be skewed so much that the retail head becomes inferior.
[/quote]

I agree in principle. However there are options that one can get at the Tour level club that one cannot get at the retail level. There aren't many, but there are some point out there that hit smaller headed drivers better, say 390cc's. With a R11s V3, they can get that size AND dial it in. They cannot do so with an off the rack R11s or R1.

Granted, that's a rather specialist case, but given the forum we're on the pool to whom that might apply to is likely larger then anywhere else.

Tour heads aren't better per say, they're different. Said differences may or may not work for one.

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[quote name='Super Tuna' timestamp='1361300736' post='6459257']
[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1361295884' post='6458815']
I've hit dozens and dozens of tour issue drivers over the years with virtually all the latest and greatest shafts. [b]Sorry tour ho's but retail = tour once properly dialed in. [/b]Tour feel comes from hot melt. It's funny how the tour crowd is scratching their heads and trying to come up with ways to improve the tour head #'s. Even if the swingweight is brought up and if that's going to even help, the numbers will not be skewed so much that the retail head becomes inferior.
[/quote]

I agree in principle. However there are options that one can get at the Tour level club that one cannot get at the retail level. There aren't many, but there are some point out there that hit smaller headed drivers better, say 390cc's. With a R11s V3, they can get that size AND dial it in. They cannot do so with an off the rack R11s or R1.

Granted, that's a rather specialist case, but given the forum we're on the pool to whom that might apply to is likely larger then anywhere else.

[b]Tour heads aren't better per say, they're different. Said differences may or may not work for one.[/b]
[/quote]


Nope, Tour heads are better and it's Taylormade's goal to specifically make you pay more for them when they usually haven't received any money for them.... :cheesy: There have actually been some good points made in a couple posts in this thread. But in the example of the R11S v3, don't you see how offering that retail even in small quantities wouldn't exactly be that beneficial? Heads on the retail market have been consistently 420-460 for years now and people have gotten used to that look. The fact that some players still want something that small.....that is a very small percentage and honestly most players, with the exception of the Tour players requesting that small of a head, aren't going to benefit from that....therefor Taylormade doesn't need to extend themselves to a club that fits very few people and even those who might be borderline....probably won't like it.

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I kind of like the thought that Callaway had on this one, in that the lower the loft the smaller the head size. It points to the fact that they believe that more often than not better players play lower lofts. I wonder if it is something that could catch on.

Driver. RBZ Tour TP 9 Kaili 70x
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Irons: TaylorMade 2014 CB 4,5, MC 6-PW
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[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1361305738' post='6459841']


Nope, Tour heads are better and it's Taylormade's goal to specifically make you pay more for them when they usually haven't received any money for them.... :cheesy: There have actually been some good points made in a couple posts in this thread. [b]But in the example of the R11S v3, don't you see how offering that retail even in small quantities wouldn't exactly be that beneficial?[/b] Heads on the retail market have been consistently 420-460 for years now and people have gotten used to that look. The fact that some players still want something that small.....that is a very small percentage and honestly most players, with the exception of the Tour players requesting that small of a head, aren't going to benefit from that....therefor Taylormade doesn't need to extend themselves to a club that fits very few people and even those who might be borderline....probably won't like it.
[/quote]

Absolutely to the bolded. I entirely understand why OEM's don't offer it at retail level (even if it's frustrating to me personally). My point is that wanting/needing something along those lines for ones game is, aside from the prestige factor that some people love, the best reason to get a Tour issue club/head.

That doesn't make it a better club, just a better fit for someone and thus better for them.

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Tuesday update is up on the bottom of the first post with near identical swing weights everyone was wanting.

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[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1361289944' post='6458183']
So what's the idea then? Tour or retail doesn't matter it's the ability of the golfer and specific needs of said golfer to be fit into the correct equipment?
[/quote]Thanks CP for the elbow greese but I agree with JW, I'm trying to figure out the idea behind the comparison? No Majic bullets, I don't think anybody disputes that and I think it's pretty obvious based on actual tour use which model the best players in the world prefer. Doesn't mean every day hacks should play it but I know plenty of high speed cats that would clearly benefit if the option was available for proper fitting through authorized dealers and not priced at 2 grand on the grey market but I digress...BB

Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
Putter: Evnroll 9.1
Balls: ProV1

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[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1361314888' post='6460785']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1361289944' post='6458183']
So what's the idea then? Tour or retail doesn't matter it's the ability of the golfer and specific needs of said golfer to be fit into the correct equipment?
[/quote]Thanks CP for the elbow greese but I agree with JW, I'm trying to figure out the idea behind the comparison? No Majic bullets, I don't think anybody disputes that and I think it's pretty obvious based on actual tour use which model the best players in the world prefer...BB
[/quote]

Dont take this the wrong way, but I figured you of all people would understand the point since your in the same boat as many other who are upset that TM is offering tour players a different head. Basically the whole point was to find out if their truly is any substantial difference in the V1 vs V2. You hear TLfan jump in every thread clamoring TM is giving us substandard heads and giving the tour pros the better head, so I wanted to do a test and find out if its the truth. So far, I don't see much truth to people thinking the tour head is in fact better. I think for some players it fits them better and with that they will see better numbers. But for most people the proper fit V1 is going to be a much better club.

All in all the point of this was to see if TM is giving the tour pros a better head since everyone seems to think it is since all the tour pros are playing it. I didn't think they was going to be much of a difference, but a lot of upset people on here thought they were so I wanted to find out for sure if they was or not.

Now I don't mean to put everyone who is upset there is a V2 non one loft head in the same boat as the people who think the non one loft head is the better head. Obviously not everyone will think that.

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Taylormade Spider Ghost

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[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361315494' post='6460837']

Dont take this the wrong way, but I figured you of all people would understand the point since your in the same boat as many other who are upset that TM is offering tour players a different head. Basically the whole point was to find out if their truly is any substantial difference in the V1 vs V2. You hear TLfan jump in every thread clamoring TM is giving us substandard heads and giving the tour pros the better head, so I wanted to do a test and find out if its the truth. So far, I don't see much truth to people thinking the tour head is in fact better. I think for some players it fits them better and with that they will see better numbers. But for most people the proper fit V1 is going to be a much better club.

All in all the point of this was to see if TM is giving the tour pros a better head since everyone seems to think it is since all the tour pros are playing it. I didn't think they was going to be much of a difference, but a lot of upset people on here thought they were so I wanted to find out for sure if they was or not.

Now I don't mean to put everyone who is upset there is a V2 non one loft head in the same boat as the people who think the non one loft head is the better head. Obviously not everyone will think that.
[/quote]I'm not upset that the best players in the world are highly customized, they should be!! That's never been my contention, it's TM's marketing that insights me, 90% of everyday golfers shouldn't play a smaller less forgiving head, would never dispute that. Its deceptive and tacky marketing that bothers me CP, now I have questioned technical aspects of one size fits all which includes all like models not just the Borg's...BB :)

Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
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Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
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Putter: Evnroll 9.1
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[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1361315856' post='6460881']
I'm not upset that the best players in the world are highly customized, they should be!! That's never been my contention, it's TM's marketing that insights me, 90% of everyday golfers shouldn't play a smaller less forgiving head, would never dispute that. Its deceptive and tacky marketing that bothers me CP, now I have questioned technical aspects of one size fits all which includes all like models not just the Borg's...BB :)
[/quote]

i knew you were more on the marketing side of the argument, thats kinda why i added that last sentence to my post, didnt want to group you in with the guys who think its a better head.

but anyway, i don't really see any difference in the one size fits all head vs the 8.5, 9.5, or 10.5 head. in my opinion its essentially all just the sleeve (i mean that if the 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 heads were the V1 not V2 heads). without it its just a 10* head. its the sleeve that does all the one size fits all work. does that sound about right or am i missing the more technical side of it, like when you brought up the point of bulge and roll of the face?

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Now that makes more sense, and honestly I look forward to range time with the Cobra which happens to be the uni-loft head that fits my eye best. If it works it works regardless of my technical mumbo-jumbo but admittedly I lean towards Pings adaptor concept, it's light and designed to make suttle modifications to a well fit club. I do sincerely hope TM allows better players at some point to purchase the F heads, now that I could get down with. Either way it's all good, and I absolutely think debates are fun, you put the info out there and folks have every right to question it HOWEVER personal shots have no place in the open forums, it's in poor taste so let's keep it honest boys...BB

Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
Putter: Evnroll 9.1
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CP can you post some pics of the heads you are testing? Just want to see the overall differences in shapes etc between the two heads.

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I said the V2 is a "better" head? I just pretty much stated the obvious which was no tour player was using the V1 and a lot of players preferred a smaller head. Like I stated the R11 Dot is my favorite head TM produced besides the SF long hosel, I prefer the smaller head shape. I'm not hear to argue, just was also on the laughing end of YouR1 advertising and etc. I never stated it launched higher or spun lower or etc, yet I've owned every V2 head TM has produced driver wise and always found better numbers and a better look at address for MY game with the smaller head. I got to choose face angles and specific specs, have it swing weighted to my preference at the length I prefer to play, I'm not a 460cc head fan nor am I a fan of the new graphics, so in the end I won't hit the R1 regardless of what version I put my hands on. So post your personal reviews and I'll keep my comments to myself from now on.

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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361322269' post='6461625']
CP can you post some pics of the heads you are testing? Just want to see the overall differences in shapes etc between the two heads.
[/quote]

V2 is on the left in all the pictures. I'll post this on the first page as well. I'll get some better angles tomorrow, is your 2 dot head essentially the same head as the V2 just difference CG location?

[attachment=1546833:image.jpg][attachment=1546835:image.jpg][attachment=1546837:image.jpg][attachment=1546839:image.jpg]

Taylormade M4 8.5 Oban Kiyoshi White
Taylormade Aeroburner 15* Diamana S+ 72
Taylormade SLDR 17* Hybrid S+ 82
Taylormade P770 4-PW KBS Ctaper Lite
Taylormade Milled Grind 51* 55* 60*
Taylormade Spider Ghost

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@CP - the 2 dot looks very similar to the V2 you posted, just trying to see the weight placement and shape. Can you post some side pics from the toe?

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 7.5 - PX Hulk 65g

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 13.5 - PX Hulk 85g
PXG Hybrid 19 - GD HYB 95

Miura MC 501 - DG X100

Miura Tour 50, 54 - DG X100

Vokey 60V - PX LZ

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IG: https://www.instagram.com/pure745

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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361333075' post='6462915']
@CP - the 2 dot looks very similar to the V2 you posted, just trying to see the weight placement and shape. Can you post some side pics from the toe?
[/quote]

yeah absolutely, i realized i didnt have many good pictures from the side after i posted these today so ill get some good ones tomorrow.

Taylormade M4 8.5 Oban Kiyoshi White
Taylormade Aeroburner 15* Diamana S+ 72
Taylormade SLDR 17* Hybrid S+ 82
Taylormade P770 4-PW KBS Ctaper Lite
Taylormade Milled Grind 51* 55* 60*
Taylormade Spider Ghost

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[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361333075' post='6462915']
@CP - the 2 dot looks very similar to the V2 you posted, just trying to see the weight placement and shape. Can you post some side pics from the toe?
[/quote]

[attachment=1547373:image.jpg][attachment=1547377:image.jpg][attachment=1547375:image.jpg]

Taylormade M4 8.5 Oban Kiyoshi White
Taylormade Aeroburner 15* Diamana S+ 72
Taylormade SLDR 17* Hybrid S+ 82
Taylormade P770 4-PW KBS Ctaper Lite
Taylormade Milled Grind 51* 55* 60*
Taylormade Spider Ghost

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[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361374709' post='6464865']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361333075' post='6462915']
@CP - the 2 dot looks very similar to the V2 you posted, just trying to see the weight placement and shape. Can you post some side pics from the toe?
[/quote]

[attachment=1547373:image.jpg][attachment=1547377:image.jpg][attachment=1547375:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Great shots here! You can really tell the difference in size.

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[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1361374805' post='6464885']
[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361374709' post='6464865']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1361333075' post='6462915']
@CP - the 2 dot looks very similar to the V2 you posted, just trying to see the weight placement and shape. Can you post some side pics from the toe?
[/quote]

[attachment=1547373:image.jpg][attachment=1547377:image.jpg][attachment=1547375:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Great shots here! You can really tell the difference in size.
[/quote]

the more i play it, the more i really really like the way the V2 sets up.

Taylormade M4 8.5 Oban Kiyoshi White
Taylormade Aeroburner 15* Diamana S+ 72
Taylormade SLDR 17* Hybrid S+ 82
Taylormade P770 4-PW KBS Ctaper Lite
Taylormade Milled Grind 51* 55* 60*
Taylormade Spider Ghost

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CP, hope you don't mind.. here's my head and yours vs. a retail:

 

V2 left, retail right

 

post-182718-0-70440100-1361374678_thumb.jpg

 

2 Dot left, retail right

 

kjkj-15.jpg

 

V2 left, retail right

 

post-182718-0-93889200-1361327980_thumb.jpg

 

2 Dot left, retail right

 

kjkj-14.jpg

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 7.5 - PX Hulk 65g

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 13.5 - PX Hulk 85g
PXG Hybrid 19 - GD HYB 95

Miura MC 501 - DG X100

Miura Tour 50, 54 - DG X100

Vokey 60V - PX LZ

Scotty Cameron 009 - Circle W
IG: https://www.instagram.com/pure745

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Gosh Pure, your 2 Dot looks fake to me comparing it to the V2 head!

Back to CP's testing....the main features that stand out between the two are,
Head Size
Head Length...front to back
Face Size
Toe Weight position

Not to mention that the V2 might have some hot melt inside

Most of these will effect how one plays over the other in some ways, especially for us Am's. It may not be much, but when looking at LM numbers, I would bet that Toe Shots will gather slightly different data between the two. Depending on your swing and your key misses, I could easily see how one head might stand out slightly better then the other off LM data and course time.

Does this make one better then the other? Think not
Is one a better Value then the other? I think so
Will the values of both drop like the stocks that I currently own? I think so

I hope to provide some retail vs retail numbers soon with my R11s to my R1 as I have them both dialed in really close to each other.

Thanks for the info CP...great job!

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[quote name='TMBob' timestamp='1361384861' post='6466015']
Gosh Pure, your 2 Dot looks fake to me comparing it to the V2 head!

Back to CP's testing....the main features that stand out between the two are,
Head Size
Head Length...front to back
Face Size
Toe Weight position

Not to mention that the V2 might have some hot melt inside

Most of these will effect how one plays over the other in some ways, especially for us Am's. It may not be much, but when looking at LM numbers, I would bet that Toe Shots will gather slightly different data between the two. Depending on your swing and your key misses, I could easily see how one head might stand out slightly better then the other off LM data and course time.

Does this make one better then the other? Think not
Is one a better Value then the other? I think so
Will the values of both drop like the stocks that I currently own? I think so

I hope to provide some retail vs retail numbers soon with my R11s to my R1 as I have them both dialed in really close to each other.

Thanks for the info CP...great job!
[/quote]

i got the head raw and hot melted 4 grams into it.

i was thinking the same thing about the toe shots because the weight being further back. so far from what ive seen the toe shots launch higher and go further left

Taylormade M4 8.5 Oban Kiyoshi White
Taylormade Aeroburner 15* Diamana S+ 72
Taylormade SLDR 17* Hybrid S+ 82
Taylormade P770 4-PW KBS Ctaper Lite
Taylormade Milled Grind 51* 55* 60*
Taylormade Spider Ghost

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[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1361385654' post='6466141']
[quote name='TMBob' timestamp='1361384861' post='6466015']
Gosh Pure, your 2 Dot looks fake to me comparing it to the V2 head!

Back to CP's testing....the main features that stand out between the two are,
Head Size
Head Length...front to back
Face Size
Toe Weight position

Not to mention that the V2 might have some hot melt inside

Most of these will effect how one plays over the other in some ways, especially for us Am's. It may not be much, but when looking at LM numbers, I would bet that Toe Shots will gather slightly different data between the two. Depending on your swing and your key misses, I could easily see how one head might stand out slightly better then the other off LM data and course time.

Does this make one better then the other? Think not
Is one a better Value then the other? I think so
Will the values of both drop like the stocks that I currently own? I think so

I hope to provide some retail vs retail numbers soon with my R11s to my R1 as I have them both dialed in really close to each other.

Thanks for the info CP...great job!
[/quote]

i got the head raw and hot melted 4 grams into it.

i was thinking the same thing about the toe shots because the weight being further back. so far from what ive seen the toe shots launch higher and go further left
[/quote]

Further back AND higher up! No other MWT retail offering has this !

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      Early in hand photos of the new GT2 models t the truck.  As soon as they show up on the range in player's bags we'll get some better from the top photos and hopefully some comparison photos against the last model.
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 293 replies
    • 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Monday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Keith Mitchell - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Rafa Campos - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      R Squared - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Martin Laird - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Paul Haley - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Eric Cole's newest custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      New Super Stroke Marvel comic themed grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Ben Taylor's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan's Axis 1 putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Chris Kirk's new Callaway Opus wedges - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      ProTC irons - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Dragon Skin 360 grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cobra prototype putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      SeeMore putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 0 replies
    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
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