How to become a scratch golfer?

[redhead]

I was wondering, is it so unbelievable difficult to reach the last part of this quest? Does it need daily training for instance. Is it lack of time, age factor, swing speed, physical build, mental, etc. Why this so small but important difference exist in your play?

 

A bit about me: I'm 30 years old now. I've been playing more than 3 years. I started playing relatively late. I regularly shoot low 80s, a couple times high 70s. I play on the weekend (depend on the weather) and doing practice/drill everyday at home.

 

So to the other scratch players out there, how long do you think it would take me to get to a scratch or somewhat close? Do you have any advice on shooting scratch golf?

[cadillacfox]

Im not scratch but im on the same quest as you. Currently im an 11 because I cant hit fairways and I cant putt to save my life. I hit my driver long but I never know where its going. If I go to a wide open course where I can play from adjacent fairways I can shoot a low number on occasion, but mostly I struggle with driver control and it balloons my scores. Look at your game and honestly review it and find your biggest flaw and work continuously on it til you get it under control. Your scores will drop fast. GL

[dolfinack]

Given your work rate and the progress you've made, I might suggest with some more hard work you could potentially make it in 4-5 years.

The standard "It's different for everyone blah blah" caveats apply, obvs.

I'd say nail the short game area if you have access to it. That's where most of the hard work is done. If you can promise yourself that you will not miss a putt from 3 feet, that's a good standard to aim for whilst practicing. Chipping becomes a gift when you know 3 feet is all you need. But try to hole every one (or rather know that you will - see Bob Rotella and the story of the basketball player).

And rely on consistency rather than being spectacular. Boring and monotonous are the words most low rounds could be described with. The best players have long swallowed their pride. They know when to chip out sideways, play more club (ALWAYS play more club than you think), and aren't shy about doing whatever it takes to get the ball in hole. Who cares what people think? Low scores speak for themselves.

Finding a pro that you can work with long term will help. Set goals and basic swing ideas to work with and stick to. Massive deviations from the swing that suits your body will hurt you the most. That last bit might be the most effective advice. It is, after all the reason we see so many different swings on tour. Do what feels right for your body within the basic fundamentals of the swing. Personalisation = consistency = boring old low scores

[Thrillhouse]

Basically most people who get to the scratch level or better kind of just play a lot and get there.

These threads are always full of people who haven't been there going on about practice or short game or putting but the simple fact of the matter is that some people have the aptitude and others don't. All that working at it a lot gives you is the opportunity to find out how good you can be. For some it's 0, others it's ten, others it's 15 etc.

[DFinch]

Nothing guarantees you'll ever make it. I made it to a 1.8 in three years on natural ability alone and I'm a rapidly slipping 5.0 right now who finished my round yesterday double, bogey, quad.

It's golf. It owes you nothing. When all is said and done, remember it's a game and it's supposed to be fun. Becoming results driven was the worst thing I ever did to my game.

[TheMackDaddy]

You can practice your but off, but that doesn't guarantee string to scratch. But if you play your butt off, you have a pretty good shot.
Play 5+ times a week and you could do it in 6-8 months more or less I would say. Practicing one shot on the putting green or the range will only get you good at that specific shot and you most likely will hardly see that same shot on your course.

[DavePelz4]

In the last year I've gone down from a 19 to an 11. I was in the fairway over 75% of the time and averaged 28 putts per round which is good enough to be low single digits. My problems have obviously been approach shots and blow up holes with penalty strokes.

I quit trying to hit hero shots and now play to the center of the green unless I have 150 or less into the green with easy access to the pin. GIR is now at 10/round although putts per round has gone up a bit which makes sense. My goal now is to get GIR to 12, eliminate anything worse than a bogey and stay out of my head. If I can continue the trend, I should get to a 5-7 this year. Not scratch but getting there.

[Jamboy72]

You may get there...you may not......A lot of my friends who played golf in HS/College (while I was playing football) took the route that Thrill shares...they played a lot...got better...played in a bunch of tournaments...got better and by the beginning of HS they were all legit scratch golfers...they didn't do anything specific, they just had a great aptitude for the game and by the time they figured out what a handicap was they were already scratch...

For me, it's been a bit different....I finally broke the barrier last summer by shooting some decent rounds int he 60s on tough courses and in competition....but it really goes back about 10 years when I started trying to get better at the game....

I started out as a legit 12-15 HC...with a lot of the mid HC swing flaws....I swung the club like a fairly strong football/baseball player and while I could move it pretty good, the finer points of the game eluded me...

I worked on it...and worked on it and worked on it....I worked on every part of the game a lot and I started to score a bit better...I would occasionally break 80 and when I did, I set a goal of seeing how many GIR I could hit....well, for some reason that really worked for me...the more greens I hit, the more rounds in the 70s I shot...and the more my HC came down....but this was all without really ever playing in a tournament or anything other than casual rounds with my dad/brother/friends, etc....

So, I decided to test the waters and sign up for some local flighted tournaments....I wanted to see where I was good and where I was bad...it didn't take long....tournament play really exposed me to my flaws under pressure and game me some more really good stuff to work on...by this point I was a decent 5-7 HC and playing in the 1st flight most of the time...

I got the competitive bug bad and started playing in more and more tournaments, daily $$ games and stuff like that...the more my weaknesses were exposed, the more it motivated me to practice...the more I practiced...the better I got...that was about 3 years ago...then 2 things happened:
1) A really, really good local player asked me why I wasn't playing in the scratch flight...he was a former pro (actually played against Tiger a couple times as an am)...I said I didn't know...he said I should give it a run...
2) I won a couple big local tournaments in the 1st flight and they basically kicked me out...said it was time for me to move up...

So I figured, if I was going to play with the big boys, I was going to need to really get after it...in the last 3 years, I've really dedicated myself to trying to get better with every part of the game...stay patient and let things click....and then they started to...Went out last weekend and played a little game with one of my HS players, his dad and another gentleman and shot 69 (rating was 72ish and slope 137) and really didn't even think about it until we added up the scores at the end...

I'm not sure if that helps you out, but there are many ways to get there....but most importantly you have to have enough natural skill...and if you do, it might take an awful lot of work...

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1364176312' post='6684557']
You can practice your but off, but that doesn't guarantee string to scratch. But if you play your butt off, you have a pretty good shot.
Play 5+ times a week and you could do it in 6-8 months more or less I would say. Practicing one shot on the putting green or the range will only get you good at that specific shot and you most likely will hardly see that same shot on your course.
[/quote]


You're talking dropping 8-10 shots/round or so over 6-8 months??? That's pretty agressive, unless you are going to quit your day job, work with a good teacher and put a good 40 hours/week into your game...for most people that's just not realistic....

[defaultoprime]

When I was 30 I spent the summer golfing a lot... two to three rounds per week... I golfed with good golfers who were willing to help me...

Without any formal lessons I went from shooting a consistent 100+ to shooting mid-80s in one season... so, dropping 10+ strokes is absolutely doable... as long as you aren't already going low... The next ten strokes are probably twice as hard to achieve...

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='defaultoprime' timestamp='1364177204' post='6684735']
When I was 30 I spent the summer golfing a lot... two to three rounds per week... I golfed with good golfers who were willing to help me...

Without any formal lessons I went from shooting a consistent 100+ to shooting mid-80s in one season... so, dropping 10+ strokes is absolutely doable... as long as you aren't already going low... The next ten strokes are probably twice as hard to achieve...
[/quote]

This gets quickly to the "It's as hard to go from 100 to 80 as it is to go from 80 to ___________" type sentiments....I'm not sure exactly what's a reasonable number, but I think you have to keep in mind that a lot of people can improve from 100+ to the 80s....but a lot more people are going to hit their personal "wall" before ever reaching scratch...it's not the forgone conclusion some people make it out to be

[TheMackDaddy]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1364176488' post='6684595']
[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1364176312' post='6684557']
You can practice your but off, but that doesn't guarantee getting to scratch. But if you play your butt off, you have a pretty good shot.
Play 5+ times a week and you could do it in 6-8 months more or less I would say. Practicing one shot on the putting green or the range will only get you good at that specific shot and you most likely will hardly see that same shot on your course.
[/quote]


You're talking dropping 8-10 shots/round or so over 6-8 months??? That's pretty agressive, unless you are going to quit your day job, work with a good teacher and put a good 40 hours/week into your game...for most people that's just not realistic....
[/quote]
Sometimes I forget I'm 16 and have all the time in the world, but if you are playing 5-6 times per week you are going to get a lot better, a lot faster than if you were to practice 5-6 times a week so I think it is possible to get to scratch if you play a ton.

[dlygrisse]

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall....

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1364180888' post='6685397']
The same way you get to Carnegie Hall....
[/quote]

You take 42nd Street?

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1364181203' post='6685443']
[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1364180888' post='6685397']
The same way you get to Carnegie Hall....
[/quote]

You take 42nd Street?
[/quote]Close
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/nyregion/29fyi.html?_r=0

[Hstead]

I have had my HC to scratch once several years ago for a short time. I have been a 4 most of the time and have been to 2. I do not play as much as I used to years ago and for me, it has been practicing and playing, tournaments etc just like the above but one thing I would also suggest. You have to know what you are practicing. If you blindly just go hit balls, you can actually b e doing more harm than good by ingraining a bad move making it more difficult to rid yourself of later. You need to have a practice plan, with either a pro, video, or another set of eyes so that you know what you are working on and are indeed working on the correct moves if you want to rid your swing of flaws to hit the ball better.

One buddy at my club practices 6 days per week, pounds balls and pounds balls and gets 180 plus holes in per week. He is a weak 14 HC. My son just started playing and has heard my sermons for years about hard work and practice if you want to be good at anything. He asked me "dad, is that guy really really good because he is practicing every time we come to the golf course". I had to explain to him that he never improves because he has no idea what he is practicing. He has never had any instruction from anyone that was qualified, has never used video, has no idea what his swing looks like, etc so he is just blindly beating balls ingraining a poor move deeper and deeper. He works just as hard on the practice green with the same results or lack there of, because his stroke is so bad. He will never see a 5 HC let alone scratch even though he practices and plays like crazy.

So point to the story, if you want to get to scratch, which I plan on doing this year, find a good instructor to help you get there. I have sought out three since November, my old teacher that is getting out of giving lessons, to slicefixer, and iteach in two weeks. I will know in two weeks how I am going to get there with my swing and short game, then it will be up to me to practice the correct things to get me there. I only have to drop a couple of shots though, not 10 which is much harder.

Remember, practice make permenant, not perfect. Good luck

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1364169229' post='6683015']
I was wondering, is it so unbelievable difficult to reach the last part of this quest? Does it need daily training for instance. Is it lack of time, age factor, swing speed, physical build, mental, etc. Why this so small but important difference exist in your play?

A bit about me: I'm 30 years old now. I've been playing more than 3 years. I started playing relatively late. I regularly shoot low 80s, a couple times high 70s. I play on the weekend (depend on the weather) and doing practice/drill everyday at home.

So to the other scratch players out there, how long do you think it would take me to get to a scratch or somewhat close? Do you have any advice on shooting scratch golf?
[/quote]

If your not consistent you wont make it.
Unless your able to hit the same shot every time you will struggle.
Playing with amatuers, they shank it, hit it fat and miss out or thin on over green, then they go up and down with 3 shots, and then they ask for advice when they see me play and I am like, well your lacking consistency.
Playing with pro´s the same happens but their misses isnt costing much due to they are seldom into any trouble but they have issues to go low and again they lack consistency.
so its the same problem just expressed differently.
The modern swing golf instruction pretty much guranteee struggling.

[Big Ben]

Do me a favor an let me know when you figure it out, I've played my entire life and fluctuate from 2-5 Index. Lowest I've ever gotten my cap was 1.8 for a period of time. I've worked very had on all facets of the game, can hit all the shots, play with Pro's, lessons you name it. No glaring weaknesses except maybe a streaky putter. This game owes you nothing and you may get there or may not regardless of desire...BB

[teespoon]

[i]Big Ben nailed it! TY Big Ben[/i]

[BrianL99]

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1364169229' post='6683015']
I was wondering, is it so unbelievable difficult to reach the last part of this quest? Does it need daily training for instance. Is it lack of time, age factor, swing speed, physical build, mental, etc. Why this so small but important difference exist in your play?

A bit about me: I'm 30 years old now. I've been playing more than 3 years. I started playing relatively late. I regularly shoot low 80s, a couple times high 70s. I play on the weekend (depend on the weather) and doing practice/drill everyday at home.

So to the other scratch players out there, how long do you think it would take me to get to a scratch or somewhat close? Do you have any advice on shooting scratch golf?
[/quote]

There are 29,000,000 "golfers" in the USA ([url="http://www.statisticbrain.com/golf-player-demographic-statistics/"]http://www.statistic...hic-statistics/[/url])

5,000,000 have USGA Handicaps

50,000 have handicaps of "0" or better.

1 out of every 600 golfers is a "Scratch" player.

In my 40 years of golf, I have not met a single Scratch golfer who wasn't in the very low single-digits by the time he was 25.

I'm at 6.2 this week. The difference between me and a scratch player, is about the same as the difference between a scratch player and Tiger Woods ... light years.

Anyone who's over the age of 25 and still in double digits, has a better chance of getting struck by lightening twice, than becoming a scratch golfer.

JMOYMMV

[mikpga]

Redhead..,

Give us some more detailed information.

Your opinion of your strengths/weaknesses...

Your stats...

Are you working with a coach or self taught?

You've come far in a short period of time, so congratulations! Keep at it! Scratch is achievable, how long will depend on the person IMO.

[Donly]

Do not forget to take into account LOFT issues.

Some of us can't seem to accept it.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1364209188' post='6686697']
Do me a favor an Let know when you figure it out, I've played my entire life and fluctuate from 2-5 Index. Lowest I've ever gotten my cap was 1.8 for a period of time. I've worked very had on all facets of the game, can hit all the shots, play with Pro's, lessons you name it. No glaring weaknesses except maybe a streaky putter. This game owes you nothing and you may get there or may not regardless of desire...BB
[/quote]

Once I have a test record I let you know.
I already figured it out the question is just how it fares to consistency and scoring.
Not enough data yet to provide a definite conclusion.

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1364211934' post='6686869']



I'm at 6.2 this week. The difference between me and a scratch player, is about the same as the difference between a scratch player and Tiger Woods ... light years.

Anyone who's over the age of 25 and still in double digits, has a better chance of getting struck by lightening twice, than becoming a scratch golfer.

JMOYMMV
[/quote]

Using modern swing mechanics I suppose your right.

I am 49, 50 at the end of year, current handicap index 10.7, as I been the last 3 years figuring out why golf instruction kinda is worthless.
so along the way I did study swings systems, trainers, players and a few other performance areas from ballet to table tennis.
what I found is a new instruction set to provide the feedback needed to own your swing.
It works with a tour level player the question still to be answered will it work with an amatuer level player such as myself and at my age and at my physical stature?

if it does, then anyone would be able to become scratch player if they so desire.

Consistency isnt swing technique in fact the reason Rory Mcilroy can loose his swing from one year to another just shows how inconsistent those guys are.
Tiger basically hit it all over the map after 3 year with Foley.
Not impressed.

When I have the data, I let ya know.

[Kadin 25]

An interesting read for you would be....

"Talent Is Overrated"

By Geoff Colvin

It covers this exact topic. What it takes to become a master or world class athlete. He believes no one is "born" to (fill in the blank). He believes deliberate practice is the key.

It's not an instruction book, it more or less outlines your approach to achieve greatness.

It's an excellent read and very eye opening.

See ya on the green...Kadin

[BrianL99]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1364213565' post='6686987']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1364209188' post='6686697']
Do me a favor an Let know when you figure it out, I've played my entire life and fluctuate from 2-5 Index. Lowest I've ever gotten my cap was 1.8 for a period of time. I've worked very had on all facets of the game, can hit all the shots, play with Pro's, lessons you name it. No glaring weaknesses except maybe a streaky putter. This game owes you nothing and you may get there or may not regardless of desire...BB
[/quote]


Consistency isnt swing technique in fact the reason Rory Mcilroy can loose his swing from one year to another just shows how inconsistent those guys are.
Tiger basically hit it all over the map after 3 year with Foley.
Not impressed.

[/quote]

You've been at 10.7 for the last 3 years, Tiger & Rory are in the +8 range ... a difference over a stroke a hole.

That's got to be a little impressive?

[dolfinack]

Fair few negative attitudes on here. I say if you want it, you can do it.

[596]

My example:

I started playing at age 54. By the age of 56 I was a 2.7 handicap. As stated above in one of the first few responses.....you need to play "boring golf". You don't need hero shots, you don't have to hit the ball 320 yards, you don't need to hit a 210 yard 7 iron. You need four things: NO three putts, NO penalty strokes, NO worse then bogey ever and NO hero shots.

I play very boring golf. Most people I play with will never realize that I just shot a 72 until we add up the scores after 18. For all the people that say practice the short game. I never practice putting and nearly never practice chipping or any shot inside 90 yards. I don't 3 putt but about once in 3 rounds and I never miss a green with a chip or pitch. I average about 30 putts per round when I play 2-3 days per week. Now its about 32-33 putts per round as I only play about once per week.

In my opinion.....short game will not get you to a low handicap IF you can't get to the green in regulation. Chipping and putting to save double bogey or worse is useless when wanting to shoot in the low 70's. Due to my experience playing golf (and most people disagree) - learn the game from tee to green. Learn the long game first. The short game is very easy to practice and learn as you go. The fundamentals of the long game translate to the short game.....I can't see the short game translating to the long game.

btw - the little 9-3 swing thingy 3/4 shot from inside 80 yards? I never even tried that shot until I was a single digit handicap. I saw no reason to learn that shot.

[br61]

[quote name='dolfinack' timestamp='1364216179' post='6687173']
Fair few negative attitudes on here. I say if you want it, you can do it.
[/quote]

I see lot of golfers that wants it but can't do it. Very few can achieve it.

Just enjoy the game of golf.

[dpb5031]

I think I'm qualified to comment based on personal experience. I did not play golf as a kid, but played all the traditional US sports and am pretty athletic. I started golf at 24 years old and improved quickly. I was self taught and paid little attention to swing mechanics. Within a short period of time I was a decent single digit handicap and eventually plateaued as a highly inconsistent 5-7 HC. Somehow, I have always been a naturally very good putter.

Two and a half years ago (at age 42) I began to pay attention to fundamentals and mechanics. This occurred because I could see the "cause & effect" of small adjustments so clearly while trying to help my young daughter with her game. I stumbled onto the 9-3 thread here on GolfWRX and began to implement the recommended changes to my own swing.

The improved fundamentals and pivot-driven swing style (combined with plenty of practice and attention to detail) also really improved my pitching and chipping. My ball striking improved as did my ability to get it up and down. Last year, before unrelated shoulder surgery, I got down to scratch after playing this game for 20 years and being stuck in the same HC range for most of those years!

Everyone is different though. In my case, my fundamentals and concept of what I should be trying to do in the golf swing were so "off" that I easily had room to improve by addressing obvious flaws. I suspect that there are plenty of others in the same boat who can achieve similar results if they dedicate themselves to learning a fundamentally good swing pattern and sticking with it. It takes commitment and discipline. I've been around golf for a long time now, and it is very rare to ever see someone who plays regularly, and has been playing for more than 4-5 years, ever really improve significantly.

[johnnymac2201]

How do I get to where I can run a marathon in under 2 1/2 hours? A lot of people train to run marathons, and a lot get to under 4 or even 3 hours, but there seems to be a limit of how far training will get you. I could train and take the same drugs Lance Armstrong did, but I'm never even gonna come close to riding in the Tour de France, much less win it. Aptitude and ability is a limiting factor to a certain extent. We can of course, maximize our abilities with hard work and practice, but scratch golf is a hard nut to crack.

If someone had a foolproof formula for becoming a scratch golfer, I think he'd be the richest man in the world.

John