Accum #3, the roll, the clubHEAD travel, the #3 angle, the bent R wrist, the low plane, low hands, h

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370607084' post='7187776']
[color=#282828]Here...looks like more parallel than more diagonal to me (not perfectly parallel, I admit)...I think to achieve this kind of grip, you have to initially set your grip at exactly parallel, then when you fully uncock, it actually will look like this...what I do now:[/color]

[attachment=1719962:hogangrip2.jpg]

[color=#282828]Here is to show that Hogan fully uncocks at setup, definitely not level (level=above of forearm and base of L thumb is a straight line...its not straight line here, its arched down)...if we look at videos of Hogan, sometimes we see him straightening it out or fully uncocking it even more before he takes it away..[/color]

[attachment=1719964:hogangrip1.jpg]
[/quote]

I must be a mutant like iteach as well then because I can unc0ck it much further than that. Maybe it just applies to you, could have less mobility.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370611030' post='7188132']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370607084' post='7187776']
[color=#282828]Here...looks like more parallel than more diagonal to me (not perfectly parallel, I admit)...I think to achieve this kind of grip, you have to initially set your grip at exactly parallel, then when you fully uncock, it actually will look like this...what I do now:[/color]

[attachment=1719962:hogangrip2.jpg]

[color=#282828]Here is to show that Hogan fully uncocks at setup, definitely not level (level=above of forearm and base of L thumb is a straight line...its not straight line here, its arched down)...if we look at videos of Hogan, sometimes we see him straightening it out or fully uncocking it even more before he takes it away..[/color]

[attachment=1719964:hogangrip1.jpg]
[/quote]

I must be a mutant like iteach as well then because I can unc0ck it much further than that. Maybe it just applies to you, could have less mobility.
[/quote]

haha tyler you mutant you.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370608725' post='7187920']
I always forget what a big butt Hogan had.
[/quote]

Start doing those sumo squats!

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370611030' post='7188132']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370607084' post='7187776']
[color=#282828]Here...looks like more parallel than more diagonal to me (not perfectly parallel, I admit)...I think to achieve this kind of grip, you have to initially set your grip at exactly parallel, then when you fully uncock, it actually will look like this...what I do now:[/color]

[attachment=1719962:hogangrip2.jpg]

[color=#282828]Here is to show that Hogan fully uncocks at setup, definitely not level (level=above of forearm and base of L thumb is a straight line...its not straight line here, its arched down)...if we look at videos of Hogan, sometimes we see him straightening it out or fully uncocking it even more before he takes it away..[/color]

[attachment=1719964:hogangrip1.jpg]
[/quote]

I must be a mutant like iteach as well then because I can unc0ck it much further than that. Maybe it just applies to you, could have less mobility.
[/quote]

I think when you really firm up the palm pad AGAINST the butt of grip, then you firm up the last 3 fingers, then you add the R hand, it won't uncock as much. Just try it, don't just read what I'm saying. Get the butt under the palm pad and pull it up against the palm pad muscle.

If you still uncock too much, well yeah I'm the mutant then...lol

[tembolo1284]

I'm slowly dying inside reading this thread.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370608566' post='7187902']
Goofin around, I know...but can be his true grip...again, more parallel than diagonal...

[attachment=1719980:hogangrip.jpg]
[/quote]

Left wrist level, weakish lead hand. Look at the pinky and the pointer finger.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370615445' post='7188680']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370611030' post='7188132']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370607084' post='7187776']
[color=#282828]Here...looks like more parallel than more diagonal to me (not perfectly parallel, I admit)...I think to achieve this kind of grip, you have to initially set your grip at exactly parallel, then when you fully uncock, it actually will look like this...what I do now:[/color]

[attachment=1719962:hogangrip2.jpg]

[color=#282828]Here is to show that Hogan fully uncocks at setup, definitely not level (level=above of forearm and base of L thumb is a straight line...its not straight line here, its arched down)...if we look at videos of Hogan, sometimes we see him straightening it out or fully uncocking it even more before he takes it away..[/color]

[attachment=1719964:hogangrip1.jpg]
[/quote]

I must be a mutant like iteach as well then because I can unc0ck it much further than that. Maybe it just applies to you, could have less mobility.
[/quote]

I think when you really firm up the palm pad AGAINST the butt of grip, then you firm up the last 3 fingers, then you add the R hand, it won't uncock as much. Just try it, don't just read what I'm saying. Get the butt under the palm pad and pull it up against the palm pad muscle.

If you still uncock too much, well yeah I'm the mutant then...lol
[/quote]

Setup a camera and display what you are talking about. You should have done that in the other thread when you said Dan gripped it wrong. Its a discussion, but now everyone is repeating themselves.

It would help move things along imo

[jblacoustics]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Hg-Q0Lkdw

[tylerdurden]

that looks nothing like Hogan's grip

[PingG10guy]

Okay. Now I see. I gripped it like that a long time ago. It game me crazy wrist pains lol

Your level definition is different than mine. I thought level meant when your first joint of the pointer finger (where it attaches to the hand) and the wrist bone are in a straight line?

[PingG10guy]

[attachment=1720352:Level.jpg]

Level...?

[jblacoustics]

Yes, I agree. When my L wrist is fully uncocked its no longer level, beyond level. Its fully uncocked. The big knuckle of my L index finger goes past level or goes past the straight line of the top of forearm bone.

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370624938' post='7190036']
that looks nothing like Hogan's grip
[/quote]

Mine is on the extreme. To "copy" Hogan's, all you have to do is get the clubhead side of the grip (as opposed to the butt side) more down on or slightly below the big knuckle of the L index finger. Then fully uncock. You'll still have a substantial #3 angle even if fully uncocked. This is what I referred to in the "hands at address" thread as "built-in big #3 angle".

With this, your clubhead's lowest point is FIXED (vertically). You don't have to time hitting the ball when the clubhead is still on the way down. You just fix low point horizontally at setup and managing the centers during the swing.

[jblacoustics]

Btw...re crazy wrist pains (L wrist)...we don't try to fully uncock or release accum #2 during the swing/DS. Effort IMO should be to rotate like hell (accum #4) and think of the right amount of R wrist bend that will match the amount of built-in #3 angle at address and amount of shaft lean your intended ball flight requires. With this IMO we can use the R arm/accum #1. So all accums are used. No wasted available energy. Accums #2 (uncocking/velocity power) and #3 (roll transfer/rotational power) gets fully released as well without you thinking about it except the R hand.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370658701' post='7193574']
Btw...re crazy wrist pains (L wrist)...we don't try to fully uncock or release accum #2 during the swing/DS. Effort IMO should be to rotate like hell (accum #4) and think of the right amount of R wrist bend that will match the amount of built-in #3 angle at address and amount of shaft lean your intended ball flight requires. With this IMO we can use the R arm/accum #1. So all accums are used. No wasted available energy. Accums #2 (uncocking/velocity power) and #3 (roll transfer/rotational power) gets fully released as well without you thinking about it except the R hand.
[/quote]

Wrong. Like the russc kellygreen guys. I would say slicefixer as a joke...but he knows better. Turning like hell and feeling pp4 means you have to release pa2 like hell. If not then pa3 goes before pa2 and you wipe it. Do you ever hit balls on the range or at all? Your left arm would never leave your chest and baseline left. Dan said you get steep and Ott. You just explained to yourself why

[jblacoustics]

Not sure you got me. russc/KG/slicefixefr guys are just accum # 4 (intent).

I said we don't TRY to release #2. I said that in response to your post about hurting your L wrist. So I said we shouldn't think about releasing #2 at all. It will release whether you just think turn (#4), just roll (#3), or just hit with R arm (#1). Sir you need to polish your attention to detail comprehension.

But #2 releases, as well as #3. I'm saying I think we should just turn (#4) and full release (#1, 2, 3), and I'm just saying these are the intents or feels. But the sequence IMO is 4-1/2/3. Used slash (/) because IMO they are released all at the same time as far as intents are concerned. But the actual physical sequence is 4-1-2-3. IMO of course.

I get steep (that was a year ago, and he mentioned that only when I begin to disagree on the full uncock and big #3 angle together being possible, which he's saying is impossible...ROFL...) because I don't externally rotate the R shoulder enough and long enough until end of transition. I am not also turning my hips on THAT specific swing. My BS and transition are wrong relative to my preferred method. He didn't tell me that btw...lol...only later in public when we disagree on the aforesaid...lol

So here it is in the interest of transparency and good faith...in transition you just c0ck/turn the hips WHILE still externally rotating the R shoulder (ERRS) (started before at around P2.5-3). While this is happening, only the pivot is engaged. Drag loading. So in TGM its #4 that is being released here. Shoulders start to turn, specifically R shoulder turns and goes down the plane.

Since you are doing ERRS, the turn of hips gets the R shoulder down, the R elbow down close in pitch, with R elbow still bent, R forearm still vertical, R wrist still bent, L wrist still cocked, #2 still unreleased, #3 still unreleased. You gotta do transition early though...

Next sequence is (while continuing turn/#4), immediately after the hip torque/c0ck, is you just fully release #1, 2 and 3.

So, I'm actually for 4-barrel switting...rofl...

Btw, who's the mutant?...lol...do you guys can do what I showed on the video, or am I the only one who can do that?

[jblacoustics]

Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370694584' post='7194706']
Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...
[/quote]

True. But but u know what I mean. Rolling 3 in a way that causes an off plane motion. Body reacts and hands get closer to you. Then its crunch time. lol

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370736173' post='7197150']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370694584' post='7194706']
Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...
[/quote]

True. But but u know what I mean. Rolling 3 in a way that causes an off plane motion. Body reacts and hands get closer to you. Then its crunch time. lol
[/quote]

I think it won't cause an off plane motion if you get down to a lower plane (e.g., elbow plane and/or layoff move) first either during BS or transition. As I've said, a big #3 requires a lower plane...which means lower hands. Otherwise you'll whiff the ball if no compensations employed, so you usually compensate by trying to get the hands lower at release, which is too late, so you steepen the shaft or release #2 too early.

IMO only way to get that low is ERRS really consciously and with enough effort until END of transition. This in turn can't be possible if you have small built in #3 angle because reaching that low and close will make clubhead's lowest point too under the ground when #2 fully releases (fully uncocks) that you will subconsciously try to prevent it by early extending, humping, lifting your head, raising the handle, level out the shoulder turn, drag the handle left, etc....to do this without any of these compensations, you'll have to time the sweet spot to be exactly on the ball on a specific point of its downward path or "touch down" on the ball. If you fix low point all you have to worry about is the direction of path, not the touch down point.

And btw, the big #3 angle will result to longer clubhead travel, right? So when you get you get to the lower plane, when #3 spits out the clubhead out on that lower plane the clubhead's arc will be less rounded and nearer straight line. If you combine this with a more vertical shoulder turn, that clubhead arc will be almost straight and so shallow that you don't have to worry about low point location at all. I think this is how Hogan did that super long and shallow divots. Fats has been talking publicly for ages in this site about shallow divots...

[PingG10guy]

I don't need pa3 in my swing so I don't care to discuss it. No offense.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370751980' post='7198332']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370736173' post='7197150']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370694584' post='7194706']
Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...
[/quote]

True. But but u know what I mean. Rolling 3 in a way that causes an off plane motion. Body reacts and hands get closer to you. Then its crunch time. lol
[/quote]

I think it won't cause an off plane motion if you get down to a lower plane (e.g., elbow plane and/or layoff move) first either during BS or transition. As I've said, a big #3 requires a lower plane...which means lower hands. Otherwise you'll whiff the ball if no compensations employed, so you usually compensate by trying to get the hands lower at release, which is too late, so you steepen the shaft or release #2 too early.

IMO only way to get that low is ERRS really consciously and with enough effort until END of transition. This in turn can't be possible if you have small built in #3 angle because reaching that low and close will make clubhead's lowest point too under the ground when #2 fully releases (fully uncocks) that you will subconsciously try to prevent it by early extending, humping, lifting your head, raising the handle, level out the shoulder turn, drag the handle left, etc....to do this without any of these compensations, you'll have to time the sweet spot to be exactly on the ball on a specific point of its downward path or "touch down" on the ball. If you fix low point all you have to worry about is the direction of path, not the touch down point.

And btw, the big #3 angle will result to longer clubhead travel, right? So when you get you get to the lower plane, when #3 spits out the clubhead out on that lower plane the clubhead's arc will be less rounded and nearer straight line. If you combine this with a more vertical shoulder turn, that clubhead arc will be almost straight and so shallow that you don't have to worry about low point location at all. I think this is how Hogan did that super long and shallow divots. Fats has been talking publicly for ages in this site about shallow divots...
[/quote]

JBL in all honesty it amazes me how much weight you put in these theories you come up with. I honestly respect the passion and you are probably a lot smarter than most including myself when it comes to this stuff. But ball flight and video don't lie. IMO you'd be better served tinkering with these things on the range instead of the theoretical chalk board.

Everything Dan says is validated by reality. Reality holds more weight than any theoretical argument, regardless of how good the logic is within your own theoretical construct. Just my honest opinion, not trying to debate this stuff.

[tembolo1284]

This thread is slowly taking over that 24 handicap guy's wanting to turn pro thread as my favorite.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370799589' post='7200120']
This thread is slowly taking over that 24 handicap guy's wanting to turn pro thread as my favorite.
[/quote]

TD decided to talk about the Wizard when he isnt even here. Just sayin

[tembolo1284]

I don't get it!

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370806872' post='7200600']
I don't get it!
[/quote]

iteachgolf=the wizard

And big pa3 angle makes it difficult to SwingVeryShallow

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370811744' post='7200934']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370806872' post='7200600']
I don't get it!
[/quote]

iteachgolf=the wizard

And big pa3 angle makes it difficult to SwingVeryShallow
[/quote]

Why do you say the wizard isn't here? He's always here.

He's omnipresent!

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370811744' post='7200934']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1370806872' post='7200600']
I don't get it!
[/quote]

iteachgolf=the wizard

And big pa3 angle makes it difficult to SwingVeryShallow
[/quote]

That's bec when he uses a big #3 he doesn't adjust his grip and low point. So he didn't change at all the BUILT-IN #3 angle...I also thought he's a wizard...rofl

[PingG10guy]

...the wizard comment is an inside joke.

The big PA3 angle comment was an excuse to use SVS as an acronym.

EDIT: youre going to anger the wizard...

[jblacoustics]

Yes. Same response...lol[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370793840' post='7199758']
I don't need pa3 in my swing so I don't care to discuss it. No offense.
[/quote]

Really? Why? It will solve your hands higher/farther at impact issue...

[jblacoustics]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1370794749' post='7199818']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370751980' post='7198332']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1370736173' post='7197150']
[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1370694584' post='7194706']
Btw Ping, #3 cannot be released before #2. Impossible. You would have to put cement on your L wrist to do that...lol

#2 always precedes #3 no matter what your intents are. That's why too many people cast the club. It will always happen first. Key is how to prevent it from releasing, but in the process you also not release #3...the layoff...doing it is a whole different matter not for me to teach because I was just taught...

Ok, there's one possibility where you can release #3 first...that is in the case of float loading...but not actually a true case bec in here where you are float loading only means you just begin to roll the flying wedge and hence it looks like you are also releasing #3 WHILE #2 is still LOADING...
[/quote]

True. But but u know what I mean. Rolling 3 in a way that causes an off plane motion. Body reacts and hands get closer to you. Then its crunch time. lol
[/quote]

I think it won't cause an off plane motion if you get down to a lower plane (e.g., elbow plane and/or layoff move) first either during BS or transition. As I've said, a big #3 requires a lower plane...which means lower hands. Otherwise you'll whiff the ball if no compensations employed, so you usually compensate by trying to get the hands lower at release, which is too late, so you steepen the shaft or release #2 too early.

IMO only way to get that low is ERRS really consciously and with enough effort until END of transition. This in turn can't be possible if you have small built in #3 angle because reaching that low and close will make clubhead's lowest point too under the ground when #2 fully releases (fully uncocks) that you will subconsciously try to prevent it by early extending, humping, lifting your head, raising the handle, level out the shoulder turn, drag the handle left, etc....to do this without any of these compensations, you'll have to time the sweet spot to be exactly on the ball on a specific point of its downward path or "touch down" on the ball. If you fix low point all you have to worry about is the direction of path, not the touch down point.

And btw, the big #3 angle will result to longer clubhead travel, right? So when you get you get to the lower plane, when #3 spits out the clubhead out on that lower plane the clubhead's arc will be less rounded and nearer straight line. If you combine this with a more vertical shoulder turn, that clubhead arc will be almost straight and so shallow that you don't have to worry about low point location at all. I think this is how Hogan did that super long and shallow divots. Fats has been talking publicly for ages in this site about shallow divots...
[/quote]

JBL in all honesty it amazes me how much weight you put in these theories you come up with. I honestly respect the passion and you are probably a lot smarter than most including myself when it comes to this stuff. But ball flight and video don't lie. IMO you'd be better served tinkering with these things on the range instead of the theoretical chalk board.

Everything Dan says is validated by reality. Reality holds more weight than any theoretical argument, regardless of how good the logic is within your own theoretical construct. Just my honest opinion, not trying to debate this stuff.
[/quote]

And who told you guys what I'm saying are not validated by reality? Iteach, right?...lol

Iteach=reality? As far as I know it's just his one man's opinion. And he said so himself that he doesn't prefer to teach a big #3 angled swing as he finds it difficult...so he's clearly not an expert on that. He doesn't even know how to fix low point vertically.

Well, you want reality, these stuff I'm babbling about are being taught in essence by Larry Mowry aka Fats...except of course he doesn't use TGM and other technical terms like I do as he doesn't need to impress with words...lol...he has actually won on Tour and has confirmed lineage rom Hogan thru Bolt...now that IS reality...