How good is the R1?

[sbjinx]

[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Funny because that was my exact experience with the RFE. Love the look and feel but I couldn't get it into the air. RFE is such a beauty I wish I could get it to perform for me. Maybe ill give it another shot in the summer

[specimania]

Everyone that has tried it in front of me loved it... It's a really good driver IMO

[ahbot]

R1 works for me. It performs better than my 913D3.

[geauxWRX]

The only R1 worth a penny is the R1 V2. It looks, sounds, and preforms better then that cheap retail offering.

[MarkFromTheUK]

[quote name='HISPL' timestamp='1367931865' post='6984894']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Interesting, I've had a bunch of customer try it and complain about the noise and the weight.

The head is about 210g from the few that I have measured.
[/quote]

Where is 210g in comparison to other OEM offerings? The R1 feels ridiculously light in the head, so much so that I totally lose the feel of where the head is during the swing, even with 60g shafts.

[MarkFromTheUK]

[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1367939658' post='6985616']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Funny because that was my exact experience with the RFE. Love the look and feel but I couldn't get it into the air. RFE is such a beauty I wish I could get it to perform for me. Maybe ill give it another shot in the summer
[/quote]

Proves how subjective it all is... I use a RFX 9.5 dialled down to 8.5, and can carry it forever, yet a 12deg R1 is a grass cutter.

[sbjinx]

[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367944329' post='6986056']
[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1367939658' post='6985616']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Funny because that was my exact experience with the RFE. Love the look and feel but I couldn't get it into the air. RFE is such a beauty I wish I could get it to perform for me. Maybe ill give it another shot in the summer
[/quote]

Proves how subjective it all is... I use a RFX 9.5 dialled down to 8.5, and can carry it forever, yet a 12deg R1 is a grass cutter.
[/quote]

yep, completely agree. sort of off topic but how did you like the G25, i know you were a big fan of the Ping stuff last year and the G25 is the only club I havent really tested out on the course

[MarkFromTheUK]

[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1367945777' post='6986186']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367944329' post='6986056']
[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1367939658' post='6985616']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Funny because that was my exact experience with the RFE. Love the look and feel but I couldn't get it into the air. RFE is such a beauty I wish I could get it to perform for me. Maybe ill give it another shot in the summer
[/quote]

Proves how subjective it all is... I use a RFX 9.5 dialled down to 8.5, and can carry it forever, yet a 12deg R1 is a grass cutter.
[/quote]

yep, completely agree. sort of off topic but how did you like the G25, i know you were a big fan of the Ping stuff last year and the G25 is the only club I havent really tested out on the course
[/quote]

I only hit the G25 in bog standard specs, 9.5 TFC stiff. It was a bit too spinny for my liking, too loud, and the head was a bit too stretched back. It looked like a spaceship at address, and put the ball in to a similar orbit. That said, from every other angle other than address it's the sexiest looking club out there.

I'm sure with a decent shaft in it (sorry TFC fans) I would be able to lower the launch and spin, but the stock club couldn't have been less suited to me. In my opinion it's way more of a GI driver than the outgoing G20 was.

[Ri_Redneck]

It's as good as any driver I have. You HAVE to get the proper shaft for your swing though. The one I demoed, I had them dig up a 75gm shaft for it. I liked it better than the Super TP with the Kiyoshi White at 60gms. Just too light. I should have had them add some weight, but I didn't want to have them do any more since I wasn't about to make a purchase.

BT

[Goldenhawk]

To date, I have not found any shaft or weight combo in an R1 Deiver that can beat my year-old R11s.

Last year, TM had a money back guarantee for the R11s because TM knew that the R11s flat out performed. Notice that there is no such guarantee with the R1 this year.

Edit: I also think that the G20 (my back up driver) is way better than the G25. The G25 seems to launch high moon balls.

[bcflyguy1]

Getting properly fit is imperative to get the best out of the 2013 TMAG drivers. Keep an open mind when it comes to loft (you'll likely need more than you thought), and also don't overlook the Stage 2 driver. I've fit several people who came in wanting to get the R1, but the Stage 2 performed better for them. The Stage 2 does fit a much wider range of swing speeds and ability levels than the R1 does.

Can't overstate how important getting a good fit is with these drivers. Gains to be had if you do, but if you don't disappointment is a likely outcome.

[Brianbigoats]

preformed well for me but no longer than my R11s V2

[leroy]

I have played TM drivers for a long time. The R11 flat out works for me. The right shaft have a lot to due with it. I'm still holding out trying the R1.

[skyking]

Sadly I've sold a TON of these mostly for the wrong reason. Guy comes in an insists that he has to have a stiff shaft. Hits nothing but line drives with a weak fade at best. I've tried to "accidentally" slip an R flex in but most look at the shaft before hitting and tell me I pulled the wrong shaft. Yea...sorry I'm the moron here.

Crank the thing up to around 12 degrees and use the dial on the bottom for max closed and suddenly I'm a genius. They get decent trajectory with a straight or even a baby draw on occasion. However, I have seen customers with mid-low teens handicaps on down, improve their distance and for the first time hit a draw with a driver. Would their money be better spent with $400 worth of lessons? Of course. I'm not big on a 45.75" shaft either

Our store has been so busy since I started, the bays always full, that I haven't been able to demo the R1 or anything else for that matter. Sold in descending order R1, G25 and X Hot drivers. Interestingly, no customer has even asked about the Cobra driver, much less wanted to demo one. Cobra was the first driver I bought when I started playing and thought it was pretty good.

[mosesgolf]

Just like all driver heads, it's all about the shaft. My R1 went through the stock 55x, Fubuki Alpha 60x, Aldila NL 60x, Aldila Alpha Rip 60 stiff and now a G. Loomis Collegiate X. Ironically the cheapest shaft (Loomis) works great with the R1. The Fubuki and NL hit WORM Burners. Th RIP Alpha was pretty good and the stock 55x was junk. For some reason the Loomis works fantastic so it's one of my 2 gamers. The R1 is definitely a low spinning head imo.

[HISPL]

[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367944200' post='6986036']
[quote name='HISPL' timestamp='1367931865' post='6984894']
[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1367915403' post='6984324']
TM gave all 4 professionals at my club a full set of clubs to use for 2013. Each chose the R1, and every one of them have gone back to their original driver, citing a lack of distance, feel and being unable to deal with the horrendous noise.

One of them is a leftie, so I was able to try the R1. I hated it too... for some reason I was unable to make it perform no matter what shaft I tried (and I tried 6... Rip Phenom, RUL 60, Fuel 60, Kai'li 60, Speeder 6, AD DI-6) or what setting I put it on. I really struggled to get it in the air for some reason. Normally I hit a high draw with my driver, but even with it set to 12 degrees I couldn't get it more than maybe 20 feet off the ground.

It is a bit of a dog (in my opinion, of course).
[/quote]

Interesting, I've had a bunch of customer try it and complain about the noise and the weight.

The head is about 210g from the few that I have measured.
[/quote]

Where is 210g in comparison to other OEM offerings? The R1 feels ridiculously light in the head, so much so that I totally lose the feel of where the head is during the swing, even with 60g shafts.
[/quote]

10g heavier than most other OEMs which is 5 swing weight points all other things being equal.

[bph7]

As you can see from this thread, it's been a pretty mixed bag for the R1. Some love it and find it to be a low launch/low spin bomber, and some can't stand it for the feel, sound, graphics etc. My experience trying it has been pretty reflective of this general consensus, actually. It IS a pretty low launch/low spin club, BUT I also agree that I'm not a fan at all of the looks/feel/sound. For me, at least, the RFX, XHP, and RBZ Stage 2 all did better than the R1, but the 913 series, anser, and g25 did worse. It was about middle of the road. I see little reason not to at least also try an R11s if you are gonna think about the R1, though, because it is MUCH cheaper and I wasn't getting any discernable performance upgrade from the R1.

[mbradley]

Was able to hit Callaways, Pings, Taylormades and titleist side by side. The G25 is just an incredible driver; more forgiving than the rest and as long as anything that I hit. The titleist D2 would be my next choice; killer quality, a real Diamana and surprisingly forgiving. It was very consistent for me. The R1 was long when hit on the screws, but it was not particularly forgiving. Don't get me wrong, all of the modern drivers seem reasonably forgiving, but the R1 just didn't seem to be anything special or stand out in any way. I just don't get the $400 price tag. The Phenom shaft was decent, but was it really much better than the Stock Ping shaft?. It definitely was not in the same league with the Diamana. Just so I don't sound totally anti-Taylormade, the RBZ Stage 2 fairways really deliver.

[floycota]

I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.

[preacher]

It's OK, there are better offerings out there right now. If you need forgiveness look at the G25. If you want ballspeed look at X-hot and Super LS.

--jason

[bcflyguy1]

[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368805427' post='7053720']
I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.
[/quote]

What did you have the loft set at when you were trying the R1?

[floycota]

[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368808909' post='7054118']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368805427' post='7053720']
I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.
[/quote]

What did you have the loft set at when you were trying the R1?
[/quote]
A bunch of different settings. 9*-10* most of the time. I had issues getting my descent angle below 45*.

[bcflyguy1]

[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368817421' post='7055130']
[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368808909' post='7054118']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368805427' post='7053720']
I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.
[/quote]

What did you have the loft set at when you were trying the R1?
[/quote]
A bunch of different settings. 9*-10* most of the time. I had issues getting my descent angle below 45*.
[/quote]

OK, that's what I was suspecting. Do you remember what spin rates you were getting? Was this on Trackman?

Not looking to discredit your findings or opinions in any way. Just curious as to whether the theory I have about fitting the R1 would have been correct in your case.

[PrO_D_BoMbEr]

Went to a local shop here that has a trackman and tried R1, Stage 2, Stage 2 Tour, RFE and Amp Cell Pro.

Currently playing a 913D3 with DI-6x.

The R1 and Amp Cell Pro launched on the lower side IMO and when tried to crank them up in loft, tended to go a little too far left. Numbers weren't any better than 913D3 even with same shaft.

The Stage 2 was a shocker, hit the Stage 2 tour higher and lower spin in the 10.5 head than my 9.5 913d3. Stage 2 tour is best head TM has this year IMO.

The RFE is a great driver, always get good numbers with it, strongly on the radar, not too hot on the shape of the RFE but it may still get the nod as that head is realy solid and great sounding.

R1 is all gimick, nothing better than R11s, just more gimicks and a compass on the bottom.

[Hookasaurus Rex]

R1 was average for me -- not a big fan. TM's stage 2 stuff this year is legit though... And this is coming from someone who isn't a huge TM fan. The stage 2 tour spoon and 3w are savages.

As far as drivers go. The two best for me are the Anser and the classic custom XL with black tie. Without a doubt, the Cleveland is the most underated driver this year; low spin, gigantic face, forgiving, lots of distance and best looking, imo. I'm getting virtually the same numbers between the Cassic and my Anser, shafted up with a Miyazaki Kusala Black. I could alternate days with these two and be perfectly fine. I owned the g25 earlier in the year, and the spin was just a bit too high for my liking.

[sbjinx]

[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368818234' post='7055216']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368817421' post='7055130']
[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368808909' post='7054118']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368805427' post='7053720']
I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.
[/quote]

What did you have the loft set at when you were trying the R1?
[/quote]
A bunch of different settings. 9*-10* most of the time. I had issues getting my descent angle below 45*.
[/quote]

OK, that's what I was suspecting. Do you remember what spin rates you were getting? Was this on Trackman?

Not looking to discredit your findings or opinions in any way. Just curious as to whether the theory I have about fitting the R1 would have been correct in your case.
[/quote]

Curious what your theory is on the R1 fitting. I have mine at 11.5* and still hit it a tad lower than the 909 D2 which plays at 9.5. I know the reaction is mixed but I really like my R1

[bcflyguy1]

Lots of folks are turned off by the graphics or sound; I get that.

However, I would venture that a huge majority of people who don't get the performance they want out of the R1 are testing it at a loft setting that is too low. It was interesting to see the results of Tom Wishon's study of adjustable drivers that indicated the R1 was actually very close to 10.5 degrees when soled with the ASP in neutral position. Meanwhile, the Titleist 913 and Ping Anser (both labeled 10.5) had a true loft of a whopping 14.5 degrees. I picked a G25 driver labeled 10.5 off the rack at my local shop today and it had enough loft in the playing position to pass for a bloated 5 wood. All OEM's have done or are still doing this, and there's nothing wrong with the practice at all. While selling the consumer what they actually need, they're still giving the consumer what they think they need. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to assume that a player coming from a Titleist or Ping or Callaway driver that thinks they are "a 9.5* guy" will try the R1 at 9.5* and not get good results at all. Can't be that the loft is too low, right? After all, he's "a 9.5* guy." So he tries a few different shafts and gets the same underwhelming results because he still has the loft set way too low. If you don't launch the ball high enough and with too low a spin rate, of course it's going to come up short of expectations.

I've fit dozens of players for both flavors of TM drivers this year, but only one R1 player who got the best results with a loft setting under 10* (it was 9.5), and this was a very accomplished junior player with very high launch and high ball speed.

Believe me, I know it's not for everyone and I'm not saying the TMAG stuff is superior to the competition. All the OEMs make great stuff or they wouldn't still be in business. Even the Stage 2 stuff will give better results to a greater % of the golfing population. But I also think there are a large hanful of players who gave up on the R1 too early because they didn't give a high enough loft setting a fair run or gave it no run at all.

[Bullysonzx10r]

I've tested it twice. Once with the stock TM Shaft, and I just didn't hit it that well, and today with all sorts of aftermarket shafts attached, and the Ping G25 and the Epon 102 just blew it out of the water. Even the X-hot was more consistent than the R1 for me.

[tcup23]

I tried everything... 3 times! Yup it I spent three weekends in a row traveling to demo days in my area to find a driver. My favorites were the 913D3, G25, XHot Pro, and the R1. I wanted the Titleist or the G25, but week after week I hit the R1 on a rope. My distance was ok, but the G25 was longer... 15 yards longer on the carry, but I went threw a bunch of shafts and listen to what the reps put me in and the G25's 15 yard advantage was erased. I thought I'd be playing the Black Tie or Ahina something low launch/spin, but with this head my idea shaft on trackman was a Kai'Li 70g. Have played a few rounds and all i can say is go get fit... its great. Honestly dont think you could go wrong with any and if PING had more shaft options maybe we could have matched or beat the R1, but as for now the R1 is one of the best (and only TM) clubs in my bag.

[floycota]

[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368818234' post='7055216']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368817421' post='7055130']
[quote name='bcflyguy1' timestamp='1368808909' post='7054118']
[quote name='floycota' timestamp='1368805427' post='7053720']
I went to a fitting with no preference for any driver. I tried the R1 with 6 different shafts and never found a shaft/set-up combo that worked for me. I used the some of the same shafts in a Raxr Fit Xtreme with much better results. The biggest sleeper on the market for me is the Cleveland Classic XL Custom with a Matrix Black Tie shaft. This was hands down the best driver for me at the fitting. It beat the Anser, R1, RFE, Titelist 913s for me.
[/quote]

What did you have the loft set at when you were trying the R1?
[/quote]
A bunch of different settings. 9*-10* most of the time. I had issues getting my descent angle below 45*.
[/quote]

OK, that's what I was suspecting. Do you remember what spin rates you were getting? Was this on Trackman?

Not looking to discredit your findings or opinions in any way. Just curious as to whether the theory I have about fitting the R1 would have been correct in your case.
[/quote]
My spin was in the 2,700 to 3,200 range. The launch was in the 12-13* range. The dispersion was terrible for me. I did try in higher and lower loft settings. I just couldn't keep a repeatable ballflight with the R1. The ballspeed and decent angle weren't ideal with the R1 either. The Cleveland XL was best for me with a really stout shaft (Black Tie) in the 9* head 1.5* open. It got my spin down a little and did bring down my decent angle. The ballspeed was better with the Cleveland than any of the other drivers I tried.