Oostie's arm swing?

[thug the bunny]

A couple times now I have seen a trailer on TGC of Louis Oosthuizen (had to google his name to get it right) on an upcoming episode of 'Lessons from the Pros' talking about how he initiates his downswing with his arms and just lets the lower body support the swing. It kind of caught my attention because I used to use this as my primary swing thought when I was learning to not slice. I didn't pick it up as a result of any magazine instruction (no internet back then), just trying to emulate someone (I think it might have been Elkington). It resulted in a balanced compact swing without a lot of lower body movement and my right heel staying down through impact, and I remember I started to draw the ball.

 

I was just wondering what thoughts there are on this, given that I have never heard it as a valid swing thought, and that it seems opposed to a lot of advice about starting the downswing with the hips and lower body....

[MonteScheinblum]

He probably has an active lower body and needs to feel his arms start first so they don't get too far behind.

Not how the sequence happens though.

[russc1597187869]

You decide
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGxgKQauOw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGxgKQauOw[/url]

[Dean21]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1373399570' post='7419110']
A couple times now I have seen a trailer on TGC of Louis Oosthuizen (had to google his name to get it right) on an upcoming episode of 'Lessons from the Pros' talking about how he initiates his downswing with his arms and just lets the lower body support the swing. It kind of caught my attention because I used to use this as my primary swing thought when I was learning to not slice. I didn't pick it up as a result of any magazine instruction (no internet back then), just trying to emulate someone (I think it might have been Elkington). It resulted in a balanced compact swing without a lot of lower body movement and my right heel staying down through impact, and I remember I started to draw the ball.

I was just wondering what thoughts there are on this, given that I have never heard it as a valid swing thought, and that it seems opposed to a lot of advice about starting the downswing with the hips and lower body....
[/quote]



Probably just what he feels. I doubt that is actually what happens.

[thug the bunny]

His lower body is definitely a lot quieter than most. I know that no good swing ever starts with arms/shoulders, just wondering why this is never used as a swing key. I know it helped me a lot back when I was spinning out and coming up out of my shots.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1373400781' post='7419296']
His lower body is definitely a lot quieter than most. I know that no good swing ever starts with arms/shoulders, just wondering why this is never used as a swing key. I know it helped me a lot back when I was spinning out and coming up out of my shots.
[/quote]

Not true. I tell clients all the time to use it as a swing key when their arms trail.

Just because his lower body looks quiet, doesn't mean he doesn't have problems with the arms trailing.

[mact3333]

I also saw this preview and did that at range last night and it helped me quite abit...I was hitting shots alot higher and with alot of power....I usually get my left arm pinned on my chest getting stuck on DS and this swing thought is a good one for me even if its not really happening in reality.

This thought and keeping head back while left hip fires on DS has completely changed my ball flight pattern...I am used to hitting lower trajectory hard draws with my inside out swing but now I am hitting high fades.

[JamesBurg]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1373399570' post='7419110']
A couple times now I have seen a trailer on TGC of Louis Oosthuizen (had to google his name to get it right) on an upcoming episode of 'Lessons from the Pros' talking about how he initiates his downswing with his arms and just lets the lower body support the swing. It kind of caught my attention because I used to use this as my primary swing thought when I was learning to not slice. I didn't pick it up as a result of any magazine instruction (no internet back then), just trying to emulate someone (I think it might have been Elkington). It resulted in a balanced compact swing without a lot of lower body movement and my right heel staying down through impact, and I remember I started to draw the ball.

I was just wondering what thoughts there are on this, given that I have never heard it as a valid swing thought, and that it seems opposed to a lot of advice about starting the downswing with the hips and lower body....
[/quote]

He does quite well with a bent lead elbow and flip through impact. Whatever works, difficult or not.

[rafal]

He has a flip release and a slight chicken wing.

If he was an unknown person and you post this swing here this guy would be considered unable to play this game.

[Jacob Mac]

Not unheard of, see Sam Snead. He talks about pulling with the left hand that pulls the weight onto the left side.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtQ5GyMd6O0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtQ5GyMd6O0[/url]

[mccarthyizm]

When I look at Oosthuizen's swing from down-the-line, I see spinning hips and an arm swing that has to catch up a bit, so maybe that's why he has that swing thought:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohQVBwgE57A

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1373409752' post='7420258']
Not unheard of, see Sam Snead. He talks about pulling with the left hand that pulls the weight onto the left side.
[/quote]
Sam's weight is already left by the time that left hand even thinks about pulling down...

[Jacob Mac]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1373411481' post='7420432']
[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1373409752' post='7420258']
Not unheard of, see Sam Snead. He talks about pulling with the left hand that pulls the weight onto the left side.
[/quote]
Sam's weight is already left by the time that left hand even thinks about pulling down...
[/quote]

I don't disagree. But that is the thought he used as his trigger. Or at least it was his trigger in the video.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='mccarthyizm' timestamp='1373410690' post='7420342']
When I look at Oosthuizen's swing from down-the-line, I see spinning hips and an arm swing that has to catch up a bit, so maybe that's why he has that swing thought:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohQVBwgE57A
[/quote]

Yes. Restricted hip turn makes it imperative his arms start first.

[dreich54311]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1373399570' post='7419110']
A couple times now I have seen a trailer on TGC of Louis Oosthuizen (had to google his name to get it right) on an upcoming episode of 'Lessons from the Pros' talking about how he initiates his downswing with his arms and just lets the lower body support the swing. It kind of caught my attention because I used to use this as my primary swing thought when I was learning to not slice. I didn't pick it up as a result of any magazine instruction (no internet back then), just trying to emulate someone (I think it might have been Elkington). It resulted in a balanced compact swing without a lot of lower body movement and my right heel staying down through impact, and I remember I started to draw the ball.

I was just wondering what thoughts there are on this, given that I have never heard it as a valid swing thought, and that it seems opposed to a lot of advice about starting the downswing with the hips and lower body....
[/quote]

I agree with Mr. Oosthuizen. The left arm initiates and controls the swing winding up the rest of the body like a coil. The legs are passive and only provide support. If you execute a proper backswing with the left arm leading and the body coiling in response the downswing is a reflex occurring automatically. I think Oosty has one of the best swings anywhere. Saw him on the range at the 2012 Masters. Every shot was perfectly straight for whatever that's worth.

[A.G.Blade]

De La Torre; arms do the down swing, body reacts

[rjm99]

I watched the episode last night. I think he was stressing starting the arms first only when he wanted to get some extra clubhead speed for a longer drive. He mentioned that most players trying to ramp it up off the tee get stuck and block it right, so starting the arms first helps avoid this. I think you have to take his words in context in this case.

I'm not sure how much of a swing thought that is for him in a normal shot though.

[juststeve]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373399835' post='7419154']
He probably has an active lower body and needs to feel his arms start first so they don't get too far behind.

Not how the sequence happens though.
[/quote]

To paraphrase Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth, Monte, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

As a matter of fact there are a lot of good to great golfers who have and do control their swing with the hands and arms and allow the body of react, playing a supportive role. .To deny that one such player actually does what he thinks he does is a bit Horatio of you, don't you think.

Steve

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1373462434' post='7423594']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373399835' post='7419154']
He probably has an active lower body and needs to feel his arms start first so they don't get too far behind.

Not how the sequence happens though.
[/quote]

To paraphrase Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth, Monte, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

As a matter of fact there are a lot of good to great golfers who have and do control their swing with the hands and arms and allow the body of react, playing a supportive role. .To deny that one such player actually does what he thinks he does is a bit Horatio of you, don't you think.

Steve
[/quote]

Isn't that exactly what I said?

[juststeve]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373466875' post='7424076']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1373462434' post='7423594']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373399835' post='7419154']
He probably has an active lower body and needs to feel his arms start first so they don't get too far behind.

Not how the sequence happens though.
[/quote]

To paraphrase Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth, Monte, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

As a matter of fact there are a lot of good to great golfers who have and do control their swing with the hands and arms and allow the body of react, playing a supportive role. .To deny that one such player actually does what he thinks he does is a bit Horatio of you, don't you think.

Steve
[/quote]

Isn't that exactly what I said?
[/quote]

No Monte, what you wrote is that his description of his golf swing is "not how the sequence happens". I suspect you wrote this because what Oosthuizen said is contrary to what you believe about effective sequencing , your philosophy so to speak.

When you become so wed to a particular theory that facts are bent or ignored to accommodate the theory its time to reconsider the theory, or at least consider that it might not be applicable to all golf swings.

I like almost everything you write and think what you advocate is one effective way to swing the club. To suggest that Oosthuizen doesn't sequence his swing the way he thinks he does though is a bit too much.

Regards,

Steve

[MonteScheinblum]

Well you have me all wrong then.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1373468395' post='7424264']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373466875' post='7424076']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1373462434' post='7423594']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1373399835' post='7419154']
He probably has an active lower body and needs to feel his arms start first so they don't get too far behind.

Not how the sequence happens though.
[/quote]

To paraphrase Hamlet, there are more things in heaven and earth, Monte, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

As a matter of fact there are a lot of good to great golfers who have and do control their swing with the hands and arms and allow the body of react, playing a supportive role. .To deny that one such player actually does what he thinks he does is a bit Horatio of you, don't you think.

Steve
[/quote]

Isn't that exactly what I said?
[/quote]

No Monte, what you wrote is that his description of his golf swing is "not how the sequence happens". I suspect you wrote this because what Oosthuizen said is contrary to what you believe about effective sequencing , your philosophy so to speak.

When you become so wed to a particular theory that facts are bent or ignored to accommodate the theory its time to reconsider the theory, or at least consider that it might not be applicable to all golf swings.

I like almost everything you write and think what you advocate is one effective way to swing the club. To suggest that Oosthuizen doesn't sequence his swing the way he thinks he does though is a bit too much.

Regards,

Steve
[/quote]
Steve if you would look at the high-speed video of his swing you would see that is actually NOT how his swing sequence goes. Just because he allows his lower body to "play a supporting role" doesn't mean that his arms actually move first. Feels are used by golfers to counteract their natural tendencies. Monte is spot on in his analysis.

[Dean21]

I've watched both of the videos in this thread of Oosty's swing, and I see the lower body starting the sequence. Maybe not as early as some, but I see the left hip start to turn first, then the hands/arms drop right after.

I dunno......just my untrained eye. He flushes it, so whatever he is doing obviously works for him.

[sanjaygolf]

They were talking about him on "On the Range" and they were saying he sometimes gets out of sync when he keeps his upper body back too long when his lower body unwinds and that makes the club come in too shallow. I can see where him having a mental thought of starting with the arms down first could keep him in sync. I think for him starting his downswing with his lower body is so ingrained whereas in most amateurs it's not and therefore when he gets out of sync it's due to his upperbody whereas in most amateurs it's the other way around. No one's swing is going to be automatically perfect all the time and it's a balancing act to get to the right spot. IIRC

[haager831]

Hey JustSteve......Just Beat it...nobody cares about your Shakespeare references

[CEPick]

I too was interested in this as I fire my hips quickly and spin out as a swing flaw. I tried it last night on the range and wow did it make a world of difference! Definitely a lag move that will keep shots from going right.

On another note. I'm cracking up at the people on here criticizing his swing. He probably has the most efficient, sound, and powerful swing for his size in the world. Its a thing of beauty.

[John Kreese]

Maybe just a case of "feel isn't real".

[juststeve]

Look guys, if the backswing coil is produced as a reaction to the swinging of the club back with the hands and arms, the body will uncoil as soon as the arms begin to move forward. As my own teacher would say, the body responds freely and immediately to the swinging of the club. In the words of another renowned teacher, Jim Flick, the swinging of the club turns the shoulders going back and going forward. This won't work if you are not relaxed and free. This won't work if you make a deliberate and artificial effort to turn going back. If you do that you need to make a deliberate and artificial effort to start down with the body. Works if you master it but totally unnecessary, as both Oosthuizen and Sam Snead attest. Both have said that the trigger for their downswing is in the arms, or in Snead's case the left hand. I take them at their word.

Steve

[tngolf22]

[quote name='John Kreese' timestamp='1373470746' post='7424568']
Maybe just a case of "feel isn't real".
[/quote]

Exactly.

[oldschoolrocker]

Looks like his hips go a fraction first to me. I'm no golf stud but know I wondered too when I saw the teaser for the episode.