Moving Backwards in Time - Why do you play vintage clubs?

[Badgergolfer2]

I play vintage clubs because modern blades really arent any better than vintage blades. Im a believer that in golf, control is more important than distance; so I prefer the shorter shafts of vintage clubs over the jacked up lofts and longer shafts of modern clubs.
In terms of putters; I started out playing a Bullseye and have tried many different putters in the 14 years since that and have come back to a Bullseye style because I love the soft feel and the pure roll of it. I love that it doesnt do anything to help me and requires me to do it all correctly myself.
In the case of woods; I love the idea of a wood ACTUALLY being made out of wood. IMO, the USGA and R&A should have nixed metalwoods years ago. It would be like if MLB allowed players to use aluminum bats. Games would turn into a home run derby and they would shatter every scoring record in the books. That doesnt mean that the players are better or that the game is better.

[stixman]

Some years ago I played some golf at a club at Beaconsfield in England. The guy I played with had been on the technical committee of the R&A. I asked him why, when persimmon was on the way out, the R&A didn't go for replacement materials which had the same specific gravity of persimmon. At least that would have defined the size of the club head in woods. He asked 'what is specific gravity?' ?????

[profsmitty]

One of the great "what ifs" I've heard lately - what if the USGA had ruled that metal as a "wood" material was not in the spirit of the game?

[ScooterMcTavish]

Or what if they ruled that drivers can only be a certain size.

Imagine if baseball bats could be doubled in size as well using lightweight materials.

Oh well, vintage golfers can pretend that this is exactly what the USGA did.

[Froth]

If baseball bats were Aluminum every single stadium would have outfield walls like "the green monster". Hehe, I'd actually like to see that.

[Badgergolfer2]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1374005956' post='7467382']
One of the great "what ifs" I've heard lately - what if the USGA had ruled that metal as a "wood" material was not in the spirit of the game?
[/quote]
[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1374006254' post='7467428']
Or what if they ruled that drivers can only be a certain size.

Imagine if baseball bats could be doubled in size as well using lightweight materials.

Oh well, vintage golfers can pretend that this is exactly what the USGA did.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly. I wish that they had said metalwoods were not in the spirit of the game and had limited headsize to 250cc. Oh well, maybe someday. I mean, it only took them 50 years to ban long putters.

[Froth]

I imagine that manufacturers would have their own private forests, with specially researched growing methods to produce the highest COR Wood they could. I've always wanted to see a club made from Palo Santo wood, It's so dense it sinks in water.

[dbuck47]

I don't necessarily want the modern stuff banned. I like it ok, too. It is just that I get satisfaction and pleasure from the old school way. I do use some more modern stuff sometimes. This year I have played my old school bag more than my "main bag".

About my "main bag": a couple of years ago I decided to get a bag together that I would leave in my car trunk and at the same time create an "experiment" of sorts. From a pawn shop, I picked up a Wilson Tour Blade 9 iron, a Hogan Director 9 iron, and a Ram Golden Ram 5 iron, all for $5. I had these reshafted and gripped, and bent to different lofts. When I got the Hogan, it had a bolt through the hosel with a nut holding the shaft on! I actually had it shafted and bent to a 7 iron(sans the bolt, lol) but I called it my Frankennine or Frankenseven---this before Phil came up with the Phrankenwood! I had an old TM Ti 360 driver reshafted with a UST/Mamiya Proforce shaft. I stuck in my old TM Raylor 16* from about 1990. I use my old W/S JP custom grind wedge, and whatever putter I am using at the time. There was one par 3 at my usual course that I couldn't reach with the 5 iron, but couldn't take enough off the Raylor, so after years of eschewing hybrids, I tried one- a Callaway 23* 4h--and loved it. I bought the 4h from a friend for $25, and he also had a 3h he let me have for $25. At another used barrel somewhere I picked up a PING ZING 5 iron that fits between the Ram 5 iron and my Hogan Frankenseven. So what started as a knock around bag to keep in the trunk is now what I consider my main set. Oh, and I stuck all this in an old Dunlop lightweight walking bag that belonged to my wife.

I started playing with persimmon again a couple of years ago when I ran across the Joe Powells in a used barrel. I came across a black vinyl Miller cart bag and bought some fuzzy barrel type headcovers in black. My Staffs and persimmon reside here, and this bag has seen about 65% of my play this year vs about 35% for my "main" bag. A couple of weeks ago I was playing with a friend and on a short par four, I hit my FG-17 1 iron and he hit his 460cc PING driver. They were not perfect strikes for either of us, but we were side by side on the right side of the fairway a little over 200 yards out. He was probably a little disappointed with his drive, while I was quite satisfied with mine!

[dpark]

Well, a shot I hit today (playing vintage of course) while playing with a good buddy explained to him why I play vintage clubs. Playing at our home course from the blue tees (6800 yards, par 72) and after a middling tee shot and thinned 3 wood, I still had 200 yards left to the hole (576 yard par-5). I could have hit my 4 wood, but after two poor wood shots in a row, I opted to try to run a 2 iron up to the hole instead.

I am much better with vintage irons than woods and the shot shape required a cut around a cross-bunker which is my preferred ball flight anyways. I told my buddy that I was going to hit a low, cut 2-iron to front of the green and run it up to the hole and he goes "yeah, right".

I hit the shot just like I called it, carrying it about 175 and because of the firm conditions and ridiculously low spin I get off of vintage irons coupled with the Wilson ZIP ball, rolled it 25 yards up the green to about 15 feet.

My buddy just had a dumbfounded look on his face and said that was the greatest 2-iron shot he had ever seen (easy to say since no one carries a 2 iron anymore...)

If I was playing modern clubs, I would have just hit my 3-hybrid, which goes as high as my 9 iron and flown it all the way to the hole and with a Pro-V1 ball, it would have stopped in about 15 feet. The 2-iron shot was WAY more satisfying...

Ended up shooting 40-40, 2 bogeys and 1 double on each side, no birdies. It was a great day of golf.

[dbuck47]

[attachment=1788862:Staffs and Joe Powells.JPG]

My vintage bag that will be in play today

[dbuck47]

My first effort at uploading a picture so sorry if I did not size it properly.

[Froth]

Excellent! That's very close to my 80's vintage bag, The Irons are identical. JP Custom Grind wedge and all! Enjoy hitting em!

[ScooterMcTavish]

There is certainly some FG-17 love in here.

Played a few holes with them to warm up yesterday. They are inching their way closer to knocking the Eye2s out of the bag. I also did white paintfill on the sole #s and the "Tour Blade", and just need to do a teal paintfill on the FG-17 so that they match my bag.

[Froth]

If you hit the 17's just right, You swear you missed the ball and just took a divot. Love that feeling.

[NRJyzr]

My story is a bit different...

I didn't start playing golf until fall, 1998, around my 35th birthday. This put my early golf years squarely in the modern equipment world. The jumbo driver boom was only a couple years after I started playing.

Fairly early on, I found myself intrigued with blades. A friend had bought a set, just to try them, and I had to hit them. Which I did fairly well, in spite of my relative lack of game at that time. Picked up a set of Golden Rams after only two seasons of golf, and off I went.

After a while, I got curious about other classic iron sets. More assorted Rams, Wilson Staffs, Palmer Standards... Didn't take long to be bitten by The Bug.

Then I found a Louisville Smart Driver at 2nd Swing. Thought it was pretty cool. Knew a guy (through another golf forum) who'd bought the 10,000+ club stash of a recently deceased gentleman, loaded to the gills with all sorts of interesting stuff. I thought it would be fun to score a persimmon fairway wood and play with the Smart Driver. He sent me 22 woods, a bit of everything, and knowing the Ram guy I'd become, made sure to include a fair number of Ram woods.

Found it was a lot of fun, hitting the persimmons. Don't find them as short as everyone likes to think they are, once you account for the differences in club lengths. And as for the size, no one has jumbo fairway woods. Right?

Ultimately, I guess I do this because I missed out on all the classics the first time around.

The down side for me with classic equipment, it's a bit harder to find something I can easily play. I have slightly short arms at roughly 6' tall, so I need to go a fair bit upright, get nervous having the older sticks bent to 63° lie 5 iron. And, I have a bit of clubhead speed, so I'm better off with something on the higher end of the flex spectrum. Not always the easiest thing to find. LOL

Great fun.

[Froth]

I was nervous bending my FG-17's a single degree flat, took my sweet sweet time doing it. I wouldn't even attempt a 3 degree upright bend for fear of breaking them. (I would be mortified if that happened)

A nifty thing I learned about the FG-17's recently is that you MUST twist them to the left to remove the heads from the shafts. The hosels are threaded and you will NEVER pull them straight off. You can actually spin them on dry fit and swing them full strength! I believe personally this makes a better Shaft to Head bond, which may account for the awesomeness of these blades. Makes cleaning the excess epoxy off the hosel/ferrule super easy too.

[NRJyzr]

You're making me nostalgic for the FG17s I unloaded years ago. I should see about making my 78 Staffs playable. Have 1-PW just lying around...

[profsmitty]

Just went through the list of magical persimmon woods available on the Bay tonight. For less than $50 or the cost of a dozen ProV1s (plus postage of course) you can buy Eye-O-Matics, a 639T, . . . What can we say to have the world stop and think about where our priorities are? It's silly and it's sad.

[Froth]

It's unreal to me that you can get a set of EXCELLENT Blades on the Bay for under $150 shipped. Hell, FG-17's can be had regularly for under $100 a set shipped 2-PW. I almost pulled the trigger on a set of Mizuno T-Zoid True's last night for $145 Shipped 3-PW. Those blades will 100% keep up with anything made today. They're one of the only irons I've hit that had a chance of taking my FG's out of the bag, superb clubs. Yet, most club HO's will spend $200 on a new fairway wood that you MIGHT use 2-3 times on the course per round. Then they'll replace that club after 10 rounds when the "Tour Model" or a new color or something comes out, great you used it 30-40 times on the course(if that), You didn't even have time to get used to it...

Depreciation on the new stuff is crazy too! I saw a 907D2 with a freaking Diamana Whiteboard in it for $89.99 Buy it now! The shaft alone costs DOUBLE THAT!

There are UNMOUNTED, NEW OLD STOCK Persimmon heads from 70's and 80's on there for under $10. What. The. Hell. You pay more for a cart at most places...

[dbuck47]

Yeah, the vintage game is one of the less expensive club ho'ing options--at least on a per club basis. An interesting thought, while you can buy a 2-pw like mine for $100 or less, they were only $269 brand new!(in 1979 $ of course). However a couple years ago I bought a TM Ti 360 for $25 that was $399 new. My Joe Powell driver and 3 wood were bought from a used barrel along with a Ram Tom Watson persimmon 5 wood with a graphite insert--that may have never been hit (it has now) for $24 for the three clubs.

[ScooterMcTavish]

My Apex II 1-PW came to me for $50 shipped through the BST.

My FG-17 came via Kijiji with the 2 woods for $20.

Crazy.

Profsmitty says it best (paraphrased) - "Where are our priorities?"

[Skip Castaneda]

Scooter, I loved what you said about being a poor kid on the golf course. I didn't pick up golf until I was 21 years old........twenty years ago. I was in college, I had no money. I was given a set of hand me down Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear clubs from about the mid 1970's. I remember hitting golf balls in a big athletic field at my old high school. I couldn't afford to go to a driving range. On the days I could, I would hit a bucket. I remember being so hungry afterwards, I couldn't afford to buy a hot dog at the 19th Hole grill. Your comment about not being able to buy fries made me smile. Now I can buy whatever I want to eat or drink.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Great post Skip. Glad you've found some kindred souls here.

[e6be26]

[quote name='Shambles' timestamp='1373579988' post='7434828']
I like my old clubs.


Shambles
[/quote]I like old clubs. I figure the playing is in the swinging (no sniggering now). When I first started playing everybody told me that nobody plays with "those" any more. Well now! Could nobody play before 1985? I have two sets of blades (1940's and 1970's) and timber woods; easier to say than "wooden woods". OK so I couldn't afford modern clubs but now I'm set in my ways and I enjoy it. Mostly.

[Golf-Junkie]

I've found myself actively rejecting anything that was manufactured, birthed, or created prior to 1958.

 

I am inversely progressing to that which is both pure and true - at least in my mind (yes, a legend in my own mind).

 

I just think there's something eponymous about being so classic that its beyond retro. James Dean wrapped up in Walter Hagen and Tommy Armour (senior).

 

Stylistically, I am currently passing through my Johnny Miller ca. 1971 phase. Before I know it, space time will have warped and I will be in my Dave Hill phase.

 

[Shallowface]

I've had occasion recently to venture to other sections of this board where I made the mistake of questioning the virtues of modern equipment.

I call it a mistake because the response I got was often a level of indignation I would expect if I were to question someone's religious faith.

But after some reflection, I shouldn't have been so surprised.

Because after all, that which the manufacturers of today are selling isn't much different from what one might hear from an evangelist.

That is, a message of hope.

One buys the latest technology in the hope that with the purchase comes an improved golf game.

And without that hope, what do they really have to sell?

In my day, mostly the 80s and early 90s, no one had more fervor than me when it came to clubs.

But with experience comes wisdom, and for me that wisdom is there's no real hope FOR ME in modern golf equipment.

And as George Carlin once said "a guy gives up hope, he's free to enjoy himself."

And that enjoyment is in playing the vintage golf equipment I loved as a kid.

And also, revisiting some of the game improvement gear of the 80s that I never had opportunity to try. Kind of an intermediate level between the classics and the moderns.

Most of us here, no matter how well we have played or currently play, have probably seen our best days.

So now we're free to enjoy ourselves!

[super20dan]

the fun for me is being able to now play the gear i couldnt afford back then. now its so low cost its pennies on the dollar. plus you never know where the gear is going to turn up. 90 percent of my gear is 80-90,s

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Shallowface' timestamp='1389749646' post='8462137']
I've had occasion recently to venture to other sections of this board where I made the mistake of questioning the virtues of modern equipment.

I call it a mistake because the response I got was often a level of indignation I would expect if I were to question someone's religious faith.

But after some reflection, I shouldn't have been so surprised.

Because after all, that which the manufacturers of today are selling isn't much different from what one might hear from an evangelist.

That is, a message of hope.

One buys the latest technology in the hope that with the purchase comes an improved golf game.

And without that hope, what do they really have to sell?

In my day, mostly the 80s and early 90s, no one had more fervor than me when it came to clubs.

But with experience comes wisdom, and for me that wisdom is there's no real hope FOR ME in modern golf equipment.

And as George Carlin once said "a guy gives up hope, he's free to enjoy himself."

And that enjoyment is in playing the vintage golf equipment I loved as a kid.

And also, revisiting some of the game improvement gear of the 80s that I never had opportunity to try. Kind of an intermediate level between the classics and the moderns.

Most of us here, no matter how well we have played or currently play, have probably seen our best days.

So now we're free to enjoy ourselves!
[/quote]

My wife told me recently that I had until Feb 1st to pick a bag of clubs, a 2014 opening day roster as it were, and that I needed to stick with it at least 3 months without making any changes. I thought it was an interesting challenge and an idea not without merit.

So I went to the range yesterday with representatives of each of the three iron sets I own to test them out.

Here's what I have:

Hogan PC7 (1967)
Hogan Medallion (1978)
Hogan FTX (2005)

All of these have been re-gripped (with the same grips) and bent to my specs. The lofts on the first two are the same, and the FTX are exactly one club (4*) stronger. I know this because I've checked them and bent them myself.

I wanted to test a long-, mid-, and short-iron from each set. So from the classic sets I took the 3, 6, and 9's. From the modern FTX I took 4, 7, and PW. Each of the long irons are 22*, the mids 34*, the shorts 46*.

The FTX have modern Apex 4 shafts, the Medallions old Apex 4 shafts, and the PC7's have shaft bands that say "Ben Hogan - R". But as I've said before, and I confirmed again yesterday, I can tell no difference at all between any of the shafts. The old Hogan regulars in the PC7's are just as firm as either of the Apex's.

What did this little experiment uncover?

Well, there were certainly some differences in the setup appearance as the Medallions have more of a square toe and a little thinner topline. But the 'tiny faces of the old blades' were exactly the same size as the modern cavity back FTX (technically they are cb in the 3-7 irons, blades in the 8-pw). The PC7's have no offset, the Medallions a slight offset, the FTX slightly more again.

There were significant differences in the feel and sound at impact. The Medallions were the harshest and the loudest, particularly on thin shots. The PC7's were perhaps the most solid in feel and sound, with the FTX seemingly a little vague or mushy by comparison with the other two and the report a little muted at impact. I [i]may[/i] have gotten a few extra yards from the FTX on thin shots, but if so it was marginal.

As for sole-turf interaction, it was mats only yesterday so that negated any differences in bounce (the PC7's have none). But since I'm a pronounced digger, I've never been able to tell much benefit in bounce, I can hit them all fat.

But the bottom line is performance. And in this regard, considering distance, trajectory, and dispersion... [b]I honestly could not tell any difference between the three sets despite their 38 year range of ages[/b]....which is satisfying in one respect, as I can feel pretty confident that my choice of irons will not affect my game. But on the other hand, it didn't help any with my immediate goal of picking my starting lineup.

edit - None of these qualify as game improvement models, but I did have a set of Wishon forged gi irons this summer, model 560mc. I couldn't hit them very well. It seems that for me, the bigger the iron head the fatter I hit them. So that bit of technology did not help me at all, and in fact it was a hindrance.

[oldschoolrocker]

Having had some time during the past season to reflect on this topic, and due to surgery having concluded that in itself was a perfect transition point for me to go exclusively vintage, I now feel I have more clarity of thought with regards to why I have chosen to go backwards in time.
The overwhelming sentiment for me is the pure and simple enjoyment that I recieve from whatever combinations of vintage clubs I choose to play on a particular day. Sometimes the round seems almost scientific in nature. A couple of woods from decade x matched with irons from decade y and a putter from decade z. How do they, with their variances contribute to my round? What nuainances do clubs A have that were absent in the design of club B, and what, if any differences in play is produced?
Variety it has been said is the spice of life, and this affords my golfing palate a taste of the world.

[minimal45]

I love the look of older clubs and I seem to shoot the same scores.