Moving Backwards in Time - Why do you play vintage clubs?

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='twooverowl' timestamp='1389828363' post='8467905']
I love the look of older clubs and I seem to shoot the same scores.
[/quote]

Funny how that works, isn't it.

Glad to see this thread has been resurrected.

[minimal45]

My clubs are not as vintage as some but they are not the newest thing out, they are my tools and I know them well, I'm always looking for older clubs to add to my arsenal.

[guisician]

Swinging and feeling the balance of a Tom Stewart mashie niblick from around 1900-1905 is as close as I can get to stepping inside a time machine. Each club from each subsequent era is another thrilling stop along a wide continuum.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='twooverowl' timestamp='1389828363' post='8467905']
I love the look of older clubs and I seem to shoot the same scores.
[/quote]

Agree, plus I hate the look of most of the newer ones.

I've been watching some of the PGA Merchandise Show coverage on Golf Channel.

I'm pounding Tums because of the nausea from looking at the hideous latest and greatest technology.

And I'm washing down Advil with Mountain Dew because my head hurts from the BS alarm that keeps going off.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Shallowface' timestamp='1390597851' post='8525375']
[quote name='twooverowl' timestamp='1389828363' post='8467905']
I love the look of older clubs and I seem to shoot the same scores.
[/quote]

Agree, plus I hate the look of most of the newer ones.

I've been watching some of the PGA Merchandise Show coverage on Golf Channel.

I'm pounding Tums because of the nausea from looking at the hideous latest and greatest technology.

And I'm washing down Advil with Mountain Dew because my head hurts from the BS alarm that keeps going off.
[/quote]Trust me brother you are not the only one

[TimV]

Scooter -
I just found this. Thank you. It really spoke to me. I too seem to be on this path you have described so well, not just for yourself but for at least one other.

[stevemcgee99]

I just think golf clubs should look like golf clubs, not ski equipment.

[stixman]

Have you tried skiing on older hickory skis? How about trying out wood laminates with metal edges? And then there's the bindings, fixed toe and cable heels. That's just the DHO, there's the Klisters Rus brigade for X country, lift heel telemark, tonkin cane poles etc, etc
Never mind hickory golf, what about retro skiing

[scomac2002]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1435179868' post='11828092']
Have you tried skiing on older hickory skis? How about trying out wood laminates with metal edges?
[/quote]

I have a set of those wood laminate skis with metal edges in the basement. They have an early version of a Solomon step-in binding rather than a cable binding, but the boots were lace up. At 205 cm they were more than a handful for a beginner -- a bit like my early forays into golf with the B&P that were the norm back then. I can't imagine going back to those after skiing on modern kit which is the equivalent of a Ping G series iron. That may sound contradictory for a fellow that plays vintage golf kit, but with skis its a matter of safety.

[stevemcgee99]

My favorite skis ever were military issue wood laminates, white tops. I used Lamer randonee / alpine tour bindings (military issue). Boots were 90's euro pink/purple/green with vibram soles.

They were meant for control, 190 cm or maybe 185. 90-60-80 or something like that. At the time most people used almost parallel edges and well over 200cm lengths - even skinny kids. I thought it was funny when I first saw the masses using short, shaped skis. Being able to turn matters, after all?

Now there's a Callaway mini driver? Funny how the things that work come back into fashion again.

Apparently, oversized irons were 'big' in the 30's / 40's, until players realized that a tiny muscleback helps them hit better after all.

[stixman]

Wandering Albatrosses from the dark side will be concerned that the old dodderers here have lost the plot with this talk of retro skiing, so, a word of comfort to the confused.

The aim of most beginning skiers was to master linked turns of one sort or another.
In my case I quickly mastered the art of linked recoveries with the occasional disaster, but I failed to progress.

See, there is a link between skiing and golf!

fwiw, both skiing and golf instructors said my main problem was NFT.

[birly-shirly]

NFT = "No Futuristic Technology"???

[stixman]

No F*****g Talent!

[oldschoolrocker]

I used those initials in a former life, but in a different order.
FTN - FREE THE NUKES

[Code-RED]

I play ping eye 2 irons 1-sw because they're so dang fun even tho they're round 6 years older then me. Why would I go spend hundreds of dollars on new irons when I wouldn't hit them any better then I do my pings, and they look cool. And people look at you funny when you can hit a 1 iron that's just some of the reasons, wouldn't ever give up my old pings for this new shiny crap haha

[scomac2002]

Of course they'd look at you funny, after all only God can hit a 1 iron!

[oldschoolrocker]

Harvesting the fruits of our labors. One tree, many types of fruit to be harvested, be it in the hunt for the old clubs themselves, taking the old clubs and by your own mind and hands causing a transformation into something playable, or, the patience and work ethic needed to take them from theory to practice, then practice to play.

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='scomac2002' timestamp='1436410759' post='11914276']
Of course they'd look at you funny, after all only God can hit a 1 iron!
[/quote]

And Hogan!

[Denny71]

It's the only style of clubs that truly relay if you are striking the ball well or not. Today's equipment is all about masking swing errors and let amateurs enjoy the game. Enjoying the game is about masking swing flaws

Old stuff has 2 options . 1) hit it well 2) or hit it real bad

Very brutal feedback at times but golf wasn't meant to be easy. It gets easier when you hit it well, these era of clubs will tell you all you need to know

[stixman]

I played at Silloth-on-Solway on Saturday. Top links course, brutal 35 mph 'heavy' wind, these are ideal conditions to bring out a 1 iron.
I accept that on parkland turf you aren't going to get much joy with one, but over here in these conditions it's the club to play.

[Fellaheen51]

[quote name='Module Mahoney' timestamp='1436751029' post='11936590']
Old stuff has 2 options . 1) hit it well 2) or hit it real bad

........ but golf wasn't meant to be easy. It gets easier when you hit it well, these era of clubs will tell you all you need to know
[/quote]

Pt. 1 - Truth. Really no in-between. That's why the "hit it well" moments with the old stuff are so satisfying.

Pt. 2 - Quoting Rick Blain, "I was misinformed". Thought club development was the panacea for a bad swing.

[scomac2002]

There was no masking of swing errors today for me even with the new kit. The strength of my vintage game seems to be from 100 yards in. I was in purgatory today when under 100 yards. Drove the ball like a champ; 10 of 12 fairways hit and then proceeded to thin, fat, skull, block, duff all but a handful of approach shots. I probably should have carded an 80, but came away with a 93! I'm gobsmacked really left wondering just what the heck it is about modern irons that is so damned endearing?! I'm very close to joining my brother Fellaheen in banishing the i25's to ebay and then looking for a set of Hogans...and not new ones either!

[oldschoolrocker]

From my own perspective with regard to 100 yards and in vintage vrs modern.
Less decision making needed in club selection. More attention to the detail of creativity and versitility.
Where the modern set perhaps will contain 3, or 4 wedges, the vintage bag only 2.
Let's see, I could choke down on the pw, or, I could play the 54, or maybe lob the 58. Answer is always a question and therefore no direct action.
I think this is where the hickory boys excel. They are able to see the shot and determine how best to get the ball from point A to point B with whichever implement works.

[stixman]

What was it Lee Trevino said?
'If you haven't figured out how you are going to play the shot by the time you've got to 10 yards of the ball, you are lost!' (Well, near enough)

I think the point he was making about creativity is that it is a continuous process that you allow to happen, and then act upon it without a second reference.
It isn't an end in itself, something that you start 'doing' when you've checked your SkyCaddie, got the readout from your anemometer, calculated the Relative Humidity and asked your caddie his (her) opinion after he's lined you up, etc etc.
When I was younger and caddying I could confidently eyeball a distance to 5 yards, actually I still can and have a laugh when Robbie the Bobbie gets out his electronics and I tell him what's on his readout before he's read it. I'm usually close, close enough for jazz anyway.

[Fellaheen51]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1436821076' post='11941498']
What was it Lee Trevino said?
'If you haven't figured out how you are going to play the shot by the time you've got to 10 yards of the ball, you are lost!' (Well, near enough)

I think the point he was making about creativity is that it is a continuous process that you allow to happen, and then act upon it without a second reference.
It isn't an end in itself, something that you start 'doing' when you've checked your SkyCaddie, got the readout from your anemometer, calculated the Relative Humidity and asked your caddie his (her) opinion after he's lined you up, etc etc.
When I was younger and caddying I could confidently eyeball a distance to 5 yards, actually I still can and have a laugh when Robbie the Bobbie gets out his electronics and I tell him what's on his readout before he's read it. I'm usually close, close enough for jazz anyway.
[/quote]

Some really good points in your posting Stix. Without realizing it, knowing the type of shot I want to make before I get to the ball is the methodology that I've been using this year. I have this visualization of the proper shot I want to execute, do not second guess myself or walk up with several clubs to choose from. See the shot and do it. Short game play has not been my strong suit in year's past. By focusing on hitting a variety of different shots has made me a much improved short game player. Dramatically so. And it is not because of practice. Hanging here, reading about the touch and feel component of the game, thinking more than I ever have, manipulating that club to the desired result. If that makes any sense.

I can affectively determine yardage from 175 yards in by observing where I'm at relative to the 200 - 100 yardage marks with no problem. Definitely within +/- 5 yards, which is good enough for my abilities (to quote: "close enough for jazz anyway". Love that). My league partner has a GPS watch (I call it his tic-toc). I can pretty much call the yardage before he has a chance to look at it. Really just confirming what I had already surmised. Not trying to boast, figure that it's no big deal, it just is. Another playing acquaintance has a laser. He needs to scope that thing in on EVERY DAMN SHOT. Even while standing on a par 5 tee box! What was once a minor annoyance has become a major aggravation when playing with him. I've thought about saying something, but decided it was inappropriate and I may be out of line. By the 12th hole or so, I'm usually pretty frosted by it all. By all things righteous in golf, please prevent me from ever owning one.

[scomac2002]

I have yet to see anyone hit it stiff after spending a couple of minutes fussing with one of those things. I just step off from the marker buttons as I'm walking to my ball. What good is an exact yardage anyway if it puts you between clubs? You still have to feather it in there and a laser or GPS isn't going to do that for you. It also won't tell you that you need a club more or less due to wind/conditions/elevation.

I feel for your frustration, Fellaheen. My solo round today took just a hair under 3 hours for 18 walking holes! I wasn't rushing, but I stepped it out between shots. It wasn't until this morning that I realized just how much dawdling around my regular Sunday partner does searching for balls and the like. I get the same frosty feeling as you when the ball retriever comes out of his bag and he goes fishing. The worst part is that half the balls he retrieves he discards!

[oldschoolrocker]

And there's the well-meaning gent you get paired up with, the one with all the bells and whistles, that thinks he's doing you a favor by checking his GPS, his rangefinder, or both and announcing the distances to you.
Now, I can only speak for myself, but, when I see the shot I have a club, and a shape in mind automatically, that over time has calculated distance, weather conditions and wind. I do not wish to have electronic aids give me an actual yardage. I am very good at spacial awareness on my on.
If, for instance I see a high cut 4 iron as the shot, and my though process is interrupted by, "I'm shooting 165 to the flag," then somewhere in the recesses of my mind I have doubt introduced. Hmmmm, that's too much club.
Doubt when over a shot is akin to the fox in the hen house, nothing good can come from it.

[stevemcgee99]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1436833006' post='11942530']
And there's the well-meaning gent you get paired up with, the one with all the bells and whistles, that thinks he's doing you a favor ...

...my though process is [b]interrupted[/b] by, "I'm shooting 165 to the flag,"
[/quote]

I HATE that. In my mind all that stuff is cheating, anyway.

And it's all a bunch of BS, too. GIve me a break - 187 vs. 183 yards is going to INFORM YOU of which club and how to hit it?? LIAR!

IF you are a robot and ALWAYS hit it exactly the same with ZERO variation, you still don't have enough clubs in the bag to optimize the shot. Because lasers and doo-dads don't take soil samples of the landing zone.

And, all those gizmos DELAY the shot, which adds to the cycle time of the hole, which ADDS to the total game time. NO WONDER it takes 5 hours to hit the ball 100 times.

[Parmstrong]

I really feel that judging shots and distances is suppose to be an essential part of golf that has been lost.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Confession - I bought a used SkyCaddie last year as I thought it would be valuable for dialing in shot distances, and be helpful on courses I've never played.

Its membership expired a few weeks ago after it was used maybe 3-4 times, and I am going to have my wife sell it on her local buy and sell group.

It really became more of a nuisance than anything else, and really, other than yardage and hazards, what does it tell you? Does it tell you elevation change, wind, humidity, temperature, and how well you're hitting the ball on any particular day? Does it help or hinder your rhythm? Does it speed you up or slow you down? Really, I saw about 1 positive for every 6 negatives from using it.

Plus, I've noticed the new courses I've been playing have been considerate enough to put up yardage markers, plus have distances on the sprinkler heads.