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Do scratch golfers/ better players have an untapped knowledge for the game of golf? The TRIAL AND ER


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I don't know if it is just me but I feel as though most scratch or better players have a knowledge for the game of golf, knowledge for how to approach certain shots, knowledge for how to escape difficult lies, knowledge for his getting around in the fewest strokes that is almost unexplainable to an average player. Judging certain shots and knowing how they will react is something you need to experience multiple times in order to know.

 

I want to know why that is.

 

It hit me at the range 2 days ago, I was there with my dad (a 15 handicap) and I realized that he had no clue how to control the trajectory or distance of a wedge whatsoever. He was taking mad hacks at his 54° wedge and watching the wind just torch the ball every time. He was 20 yards offline every single shot with a wedge... He had no clue how to execute a simple 1/2 wedge and 3/4 wedge shot AT ALL. Maybe this is a 1 time thing for just my dad but once i taught him proper technique and showed him how to control trajectory and distance he actually said out loud: "this makes golf fun to practice, I wish i knew this years ago". Coming from my dad this was a "soft" thing to admit.

 

To me, those little wedge shots seem so simple. To him it was like I opened his mind to a whole new world of secrets. I felt like I had given him so much knowledge in so little teaching.

 

I know many WRXers won't ask but is there any shot you have trouble hitting that some better players can make easier for you? This experience with my dad has shed some light on a new world of thinking for me. Is is really that easy that just a simple "been there, tried that, that works, this doesn't" tip will help that much?

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It all comes down to the right equipment, ability, and all around experience experience, practice practice, more experience / trial and error.

I dont care who you are, like many of the amazing ball strikers on these forums, I dont believe one bit you are a 2 HC and only been playing for 2 years.

Sorry. I'm a good golfer and been playing for 20 years. I know how this game really is. It's just tough.

I also LOVE it when I see a beginner that has real potential and being able to help any way that I can. I makes me feel so great because I am guilty of around 10 years of improper experience and direction and after I took things a bit more serious and did thing the "right way", I am playing the best I ever have. But there is STILL work to do. it never stops.

Open your mind, meet new people, talk, try, ext...

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For me, I learned a technique 3 weeks ago in a tournament for a shot that i have struggled with my entire life as long as i can remember: a chip off of hard pan/ bare patch of turf where I needed to carry over rough and get it to react like a normal chip shot on the green. I watched a fellow + handicap player hit this exact chip 3 times during the round and I learned the easiest technique ever that I never thought of. It made me realize that this guy had knowledge of that shot that I never had, and most likely i know how to approach a certain shot that he struggles with. We could learn from each other and most of us don't realize it.

I am a +2 handicap but there are still a couple certain shots that i look at that leave me wondering: how in the heck???

1 of the hardest shots for me is the short chip/ pitch mini flop/ blast from thick rough. I either leave it short still in the rough or it flies too long and leaves a long putt for an up and down. Does anybody know a "secret" on how to simplify that shot?

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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375156643' post='7566302']
For me, I learned a technique 3 weeks ago in a tournament for a shot that i have struggled with my entire life as long as i can remember: a chip off of hard pan/ bare patch of turf where I needed to carry over rough and get it to react like a normal chip shot on the green. I watched a fellow + handicap player hit this exact chip 3 times during the round and I learned the easiest technique ever that I never thought of. It made me realize that this guy had knowledge of that shot that I never had, and most likely i know how to approach a certain shot that he struggles with. We could learn from each other and most of us don't realize it.

I am a +2 handicap but there are still a couple certain shots that i look at that leave me wondering: how in the heck???

1 of the hardest shots for me is the short chip/ pitch mini flop/ blast from thick rough. I either leave it short still in the rough or it flies too long and leaves a long putt for an up and down. Does anybody know a "secret" on how to simplify that shot?
[/quote]

For me on that shot, it's all about imagination, feel, and touch. I just feel the depth of the grss with the club before I hit it, then I forget where the ground is at that point and focus hard on the position of the ball. I just stare at it hard and imagine exactly where I want the clubface to impact the ball. no worries about anything else. I kind of imagine the ball just floating in mid air and I have to hit it.

I practiced this a few times on the range by teeing a ball way up and trying to hit wedges right in the center. I do this with my driver as well. Tee it WAY too high and concentrate on hitting just the ball right in the center. I think it helps my focus and coordination.

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[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1375155986' post='7566262']
I was wondering the same thing earlier today. I'm told my short game is that of a very low single digit, but I struggle with the full swing. "What is their secret?" I ask myself.

Lessons haven't helped. Practice hasn't helped. Some days I have it. Most days not.
[/quote]
My secret with the long game is broken into 4 parts. It isn't just one secret move or anything. this is what I think about when making my shot selection:
1. Pick a SMALL target. Smaller than you think. Pick a spot the size of a quarter. Don't just aim at a certain tree, aim at a certain leaf on that tree. Your misses will become better and better and we l know that golf is a game of how good your misses are, not how good your good shots are.
2. PICK A SIDE- pick a side to miss on that will not put you in trouble or especially in a hazard. This is more of a course management thing than anything else. Don't challenge a hazard at the risk of hitting into it. Play away from the big number and your long game won't be penalizing anymore.
3. Don't think you need to overpower anything. Let your natural speed don't the work. Everyone falls victim to this at some point. Next time you are on the range, take nothing more than an 80% swing and watch how your ball flight tightens up and your misses aren't off the map anymore. Plus your ball contact sill become more solid because you are swinging within yourself. The trick here is to take that same swing to the course.
4. Confidence- almost any scratch player is just as confident with their 3 wood or 4 iron as they are with a 7 or 8 iron. Make a confident swing to a conservative target and you will get better results.

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[quote name='LUMA' timestamp='1375157209' post='7566366']
[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375156643' post='7566302']
For me, I learned a technique 3 weeks ago in a tournament for a shot that i have struggled with my entire life as long as i can remember: a chip off of hard pan/ bare patch of turf where I needed to carry over rough and get it to react like a normal chip shot on the green. I watched a fellow + handicap player hit this exact chip 3 times during the round and I learned the easiest technique ever that I never thought of. It made me realize that this guy had knowledge of that shot that I never had, and most likely i know how to approach a certain shot that he struggles with. We could learn from each other and most of us don't realize it.

I am a +2 handicap but there are still a couple certain shots that i look at that leave me wondering: how in the heck???

1 of the hardest shots for me is the short chip/ pitch mini flop/ blast from thick rough. I either leave it short still in the rough or it flies too long and leaves a long putt for an up and down. Does anybody know a "secret" on how to simplify that shot?
[/quote]

For me on that shot, it's all about imagination, feel, and touch. I just feel the depth of the grss with the club before I hit it, then I forget where the ground is at that point and focus hard on the position of the ball. I just stare at it hard and imagine exactly where I want the clubface to impact the ball. no worries about anything else. I kind of imagine the ball just floating in mid air and I have to hit it.

I practiced this a few times on the range by teeing a ball way up and trying to hit wedges right in the center. I do this with my driver as well. Tee it WAY too high and concentrate on hitting just the ball right in the center. I think it helps my focus and coordination.
[/quote]
Do you hit that shot with a wedge with an open face or keep it square or even close it? I think that is where I haven't found a consistent comfort zone for that particular shot. I open the face and go under it, keep it square and it flies long. Do you play it like a bunker shot?

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It depends on how high and soft I need it really.

 

I would hit the range and go to the mats where you have some of those rubber tee things and just start hitting different shots. See what the ball does.

 

I got good at this because when I was a kid, for fun, I would go out in my back yard that was full of thick high St. Augustine grass with a wedge and chip into a bucket from various distances. I have NO fear of rough! I like it actually. well clean puffy rough anyways.

 

I love this stuff.

 

st-augustine-1.jpg

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Callaway XR 19 deg Hybrid / Project X LZ S (about to retire)
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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375157782' post='7566392']
My secret with the long game is broken into 4 parts. It isn't just one secret move or anything. this is what I think about when making my shot selection:
1. Pick a SMALL target. Smaller than you think. Pick a spot the size of a quarter. Don't just aim at a certain tree, aim at a certain leaf on that tree. Your misses will become better and better and we l know that golf is a game of how good your misses are, not how good your good shots are.
2. PICK A SIDE- pick a side to miss on that will not put you in trouble or especially in a hazard. This is more of a course management thing than anything else. Don't challenge a hazard at the risk of hitting into it. Play away from the big number and your long game won't be penalizing anymore.
3. [b]Don't think you need to overpower anything. Let your natural speed don't the work. Everyone falls victim to this at some point. Next time you are on the range, take nothing more than an 80% swing and watch how your ball flight tightens up and your misses aren't off the map anymore. Plus your ball contact sill become more solid because you are swinging within yourself. The trick here is to take that same swing to the course.[/b]
4. Confidence- almost any scratch player is just as confident with their 3 wood or 4 iron as they are with a 7 or 8 iron. Make a confident swing to a conservative target and you will get better results.
[/quote]

THIS! I get myself in so much trouble when I try to over-swing and do to much. I find this is why I have trouble closing out rounds. Happened today even, +2 through 6 and I finished the last three at +5

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[quote name='simple36' timestamp='1375158792' post='7566456']
[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375157782' post='7566392']
My secret with the long game is broken into 4 parts. It isn't just one secret move or anything. this is what I think about when making my shot selection:
1. Pick a SMALL target. Smaller than you think. Pick a spot the size of a quarter. Don't just aim at a certain tree, aim at a certain leaf on that tree. Your misses will become better and better and we l know that golf is a game of how good your misses are, not how good your good shots are.
2. PICK A SIDE- pick a side to miss on that will not put you in trouble or especially in a hazard. This is more of a course management thing than anything else. Don't challenge a hazard at the risk of hitting into it. Play away from the big number and your long game won't be penalizing anymore.
3. [b]Don't think you need to overpower anything. Let your natural speed don't the work. Everyone falls victim to this at some point. Next time you are on the range, take nothing more than an 80% swing and watch how your ball flight tightens up and your misses aren't off the map anymore. Plus your ball contact sill become more solid because you are swinging within yourself. The trick here is to take that same swing to the course.[/b]
4. Confidence- almost any scratch player is just as confident with their 3 wood or 4 iron as they are with a 7 or 8 iron. Make a confident swing to a conservative target and you will get better results.
[/quote]

THIS! I get myself in so much trouble when I try to over-swing and do to much. I find this is why I have trouble closing out rounds. Happened today even, +2 through 6 and I finished the last three at +5
[/quote]
It is especially tempting to go hard at one when you are steamed about another shot that you hit bad because you tried to hit that one too hard because you were mad about hitting another shot bad from swinging all out. It is a vicious cycle I'm telling you. Treat every hole as if it is the ONLY hole you are playing. Do not base what you do here on the last hole or the next hole. Golf is a game in which you need to stay in the now moment.

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It depends on how high and soft I need it really.

 

I would hit the range and go to the mats where you have some of those rubber tee things and just start hitting different shots. See what the ball does.

 

I got good at this because when I was a kid, for fun, I would go out in my back yard that was full of thick high St. Augustine grass with a wedge and chip into a bucket from various distances. I have NO fear of rough! I like it actually. well clean puffy rough anyways.

 

I love this stuff.

 

st-augustine-1.jpg

Lol that stuff is the nice rough

S9-1 Pro D 9.5 (Tour Prototype 80X Pink) Titleist 909 F3 15 (Diamana BB 83x) 3-PW Miura TB (Nippon NS Pro SPB X flex) 54* Ping Tour S rustique (KBS Tour) 60* Vokey SM4 M grind (KBS C taper) PING Redwood black satin D66

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I especially find that I play MUCH better when I don't think about my score or my stats. Often times my best rounds are the times when I had nothing on my mind the entire round. Instead of thinking about how that last shot messed up your round, think about what you need to do with this next shot to save it. You can't unhit the last shot but you CAN focus and grind it out. Don't worry about the difficulty of the shot, focus on the the execution and picture the ball flying exactly how you want it and then step up and hit it!

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I would just say "Eff it!" and hit a little "trapper smacker" as I call it. Like when you are plugged.

You could play it like a bunker shot but I would not feel as comfortable with that. I think you would have a better chance with a nice easy little trapper smacker. Maybe even just try to open the face a tad and just hit it like any other little chip. Just dont expect any spin.

But at the end of the day, I say trapper smack it.

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Open face a ton, very steep/wristy backswing, short finish. All the clubs energy should be gone just after impact. Should feel like you are using the bounce of wedge to 'bottom out' under ball. Stroke is very poppy with no digging. Always use open face, only time it's square is if you have a ton of green to work with and a super buried lie in rough.

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[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1375160851' post='7566560']
Open face a ton, very steep/wristy backswing, short finish. All the clubs energy should be gone just after impact. Should feel like you are using the bounce of wedge to 'bottom out' under ball. Stroke is very poppy with no digging. Always use open face, only time it's square is if you have a ton of green to work with and a super buried lie in rough.
[/quote]

This, if you follow through too much that is where the ball flying out of there comes from. There will always be some uncertainty but I almost always have it open, better chance of the ball coming out softer so the only time I really get in trouble with distance control is if I barely get it out.

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[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1375160851' post='7566560']
Open face a ton, very steep/wristy backswing, short finish. All the clubs energy should be gone just after impact. Should feel like you are using the bounce of wedge to 'bottom out' under ball. Stroke is very poppy with no digging. Always use open face, only time it's square is if you have a ton of green to work with and a super buried lie in rough.
[/quote]

This is what I find interesting. I agree this is a solid way of hitting this shot. I would then try it and fail. Maybe I am envisioning the shot differently than you or the OP. This is what I find so interesting about this game. People would bet me I couldnt hit a shot a certain way and I would do it. Then I would try to hit a shot their way and couldn't do it. Everybody has a vision of the shot in their head a certain way. I like to pick brains on this. Shoot I have hit 60 deg flop shots right next to the green when I technically should have just putted it but it worked out. I saw the shot, knew what I felt comfortable with in the situation, and made it happen.

Titleist TSI3 / PX Hazardous Smoke Black RDX X-Stiff

Titleist 915 F 15 deg / Diamana 70 (about to retire)
Callaway XR 19 deg Hybrid / Project X LZ S (about to retire)
Titleist  (2021) T100 / AMT White

Titleist Vokey SM5 50

Callaway Jaws 56/60 

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Mid-slant

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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375157782' post='7566392']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1375155986' post='7566262']
I was wondering the same thing earlier today. I'm told my short game is that of a very low single digit, but I struggle with the full swing. "What is their secret?" I ask myself.

Lessons haven't helped. Practice hasn't helped. Some days I have it. Most days not.
[/quote]
My secret with the long game is broken into 4 parts. It isn't just one secret move or anything. this is what I think about when making my shot selection:
1. Pick a SMALL target. Smaller than you think. Pick a spot the size of a quarter. Don't just aim at a certain tree, aim at a certain leaf on that tree. Your misses will become better and better and we l know that golf is a game of how good your misses are, not how good your good shots are.
2. PICK A SIDE- pick a side to miss on that will not put you in trouble or especially in a hazard. This is more of a course management thing than anything else. Don't challenge a hazard at the risk of hitting into it. Play away from the big number and your long game won't be penalizing anymore.
3. Don't think you need to overpower anything. Let your natural speed don't the work. Everyone falls victim to this at some point. Next time you are on the range, take nothing more than an 80% swing and watch how your ball flight tightens up and your misses aren't off the map anymore. Plus your ball contact sill become more solid because you are swinging within yourself. The trick here is to take that same swing to the course.
4. Confidence- almost any scratch player is just as confident with their 3 wood or 4 iron as they are with a 7 or 8 iron. Make a confident swing to a conservative target and you will get better results.
[/quote]

Thanks for the four points! :-)

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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375159333' post='7566486']
I'm talking about lies like these where the flag is 10-20 yards away
[/quote]

I practice those a lot...and am pretty good at them. I probably spend 90% of my practice time on the short game. And it shows. I practice 10% on the long game. And it shows. :-)

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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375156643' post='7566302']
For me, I learned a technique 3 weeks ago in a tournament for a shot that i have struggled with my entire life as long as i can remember: a chip off of hard pan/ bare patch of turf where I needed to carry over rough and get it to react like a normal chip shot on the green. I watched a fellow + handicap player hit this exact chip 3 times during the round and[b] I learned the easiest technique ever that I never thought of[/b]. It made me realize that this guy had knowledge of that shot that I never had, and most likely i know how to approach a certain shot that he struggles with. We could learn from each other and most of us don't realize it.
[/quote]

I deal with that shot every so often, what's the technique?

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[quote name='DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan' timestamp='1375159333' post='7566486']
I'm talking about lies like these where the flag is 10-20 yards away
[/quote]

I open the face completely and plan on hitting it fat. The key for me is to weaken my left hand once I open the face, that keeps me from closing the face down through impact and hitting it too far. I also put the ball up in my stance. From there it's all about judging how much energy you are going to put into the ball, based off of how much grass will be getting in the way, how thick it is, and how far the ball has to fly, and how open the face is.

edit: thats how I do it when the flag is inside 10 yards, 20 yards away I have the face less open, unless of course I have to fly it most of the way to the hole for some reason.

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On those shorter explosion shots, the thing I learned back 15 years ago taking lessons when I first picked up the game, learn to hit those shots with "dead hands". The pro I was taking lessons from had me take full sandwedge swings to hit it 20 yards, take full swings but only hit a 5 iron 100 yards, hit bunker shots with a 4-iron, it is a very useful concept to understand.

That and I typically address it a bit off the toe as well, helps kill the "go" off the club. The ideal way of hitting that shot is try to hit it so dead you can see the logo on the ball as it flies, and then it lands like a sack of potatoes with little/no roll out.

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[quote name='Rusty88' timestamp='1375186032' post='7567368']
One shot that worries me is the 60-80 yard wedge shot on an uphill lie. Never found a good way to play that. I've changed 2 holes with strategy to avoid that shot
[/quote]

I think part of this depends on what surrounds the green. If you have a forced carry, I don't know if there is a better way than the old lobber and figuring out the "playing" yardage of the shot since the uphill adds playing yardage to the shot. If you can take it in a little lower (no trouble short) then I like to take 1-2 extra clubs (like my gap wedge) and take a little 9:00 swing with the ball middle-back of my stance. I'll hit it low over high every time if I had the choice.

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[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375165820' post='7566758']


Putting.....its a secret and Ive been asked not to tell by the instructor. I NEVER will have to bend down to read a putt or fiddle with a line on a ball to line things up because of this guy's insight and I've not been over 30 putts in 2 months...... lowered my cap A TON. thing is tho....putting is the only thing I will see him about.


[/quote]

If you explain your methods can you name the coach? I saw in another thread you did some aimpoint stuff, you still use that or is it a separate thing?

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The low low handicappers and pro level players I find are often very ambidextrous. They have good coordination with both arms/hands and my guess may often be opposite eye dominate from their dominate hand. I think this gives a good advantage to balance in putting, chipping, and full swing. Also, access and dedication to lots and lots of practice time.

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      Cameron CT T-11 putter - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      New Graphite Design shafts - WITB @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Cameron cover from 2021 ZOZO Championship - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Bettinardi covers - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
      Cameron CT putters - @ 2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open
       
       
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Tuesday #3
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      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #1
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #2
      2021 Hewlett Packard Enterprise Houston Open - Wednesday #3
       
       
       
       
      • 1 reply
    • APPLY NOW: L.A.B. Golf MEZZ.1 Putter (Early Access) Member Testing! 10 Testers Needed!
      L.A.B. Golf is choosing ten GolfWRX members to receive their MEZZ.1 putter early and put their brand new product to the test before reporting back to the community about what they see. The selected testers will be one of the first to experience the MEZZ.1 from L.A.B. GOLF, their newest Lie Angle Balanced design, ahead of it's January 2022 launch!
       
      About The L.A.B. Golf Mezz.1 Putter
      MEZZ.1 is our new mid-mallet putter that’s fully CNC machined from a billet of 6061 aircraft aluminum (body) and 303 stainless steel (midsection) to create our best-feeling — and we think best looking — putter to date. It includes 10 weights (eight on the bottom, two on the sides) that allow us to individually build each putter to a golfer’s exact specifications.
       
      How To Apply
      In a post below, answer the following questions.
       
      1. City, State?
      2. Handicap?
      3. What is your current putter?
      4. Have you ever used a L.A.B. Golf putter?
      5. Why do you want to review the MEAZZ.1 putter?
      6. Do you agree to participate in an ongoing testing thread, posting reviews and photos?
       
      That's it! @labgolf and GolfWRX will choose the testers in about 2 weeks! This testing event is for good-standing members in the USA only!
       
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      • 435 replies
    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Adam Scott - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Jason Day - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
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      Matt Jones - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
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      Min Kyu - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
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      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Lucas Glover - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
       
       
       
      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Kevin Na's new Odyssey/Toulon putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
      Jucie wedges & Proto irons - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
       
       
       
       
      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
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      • 15 replies

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