Do scratch golfers/ better players have an untapped knowledge for the game of golf? The TRIAL AND ER

[birdie_joe]

[quote name='LUMA' timestamp='1375155963' post='7566256']
It all comes down to the right equipment, ability, and all around experience experience, practice practice, more experience / trial and error.

I dont care who you are, like many of the amazing ball strikers on these forums, I dont believe one bit you are a 2 HC and only been playing for 2 years.

Sorry. I'm a good golfer and been playing for 20 years. I know how this game really is. It's just tough.

I also LOVE it when I see a beginner that has real potential and being able to help any way that I can. I makes me feel so great because I am guilty of around 10 years of improper experience and direction and after I took things a bit more serious and did thing the "right way", I am playing the best I ever have. But there is STILL work to do. it never stops.

Open your mind, meet new people, talk, try, ext...
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Perfectly said.

[Dave D]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1375823801' post='7618560']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1375757924' post='7613248']
Here's a thought: I make 90 percent of my birdies on the same 7 holes on my home course. I average 4 per round. On all other holes, I tell myself that "par is a good score" sometimes on those holes I accidentally hit it close or chip in or make a 30-40 footer. But I'm not trying to!!! I can't tell you how many doubles i see when my buddies try to birdie the wrong holes. Guys on tour in the last 3 groups are good enough and playing well enough that week to try to birdie the "wrong " holes. An average 5 simply shouldn't. Learn that and you'll be a 1 or 2 in a month.
[/quote]

Yes that is true but getting to a plus handicap level means you have to make three or four birdies a round, especially at your home course. Getting from a 5 to a 2 on a course rated 74 means you need 2 or 3 birdies to go with your 5 or 6 bogies. Get rid of the doubles and you only have to par half of the holes. I don't know what your course is rated but 6 bogies is A LOT of forgiveness. Turn the 6 into 3 and suddenly you're a scratch.

The point is that you don't have to birdie every damn hole. Just focus on the easy ones. And then play safe on the rest. We're not talking about getting on tour here, just getting to a 0....
[/quote]

This is superb advice, im a 2 hcap and have never really thought of it this way. am def going to try and implement this strategy this weekend.

[sleepy_augusto]

It all seems so easy in writing

Thanks again everyone, adding this to notebook.

[westchester bomber]

To me the one thing a "scratch" golfer has over a 10 handicap is distance. Not necessarily how far you hit it but the consistency with each club. I may miss my shots left or right but the ball always travels are fairly consistent distance. With the 10 handicappers I play with who can hit great shots I often see them coming up well short on their shots and that's just improper technique IMO

[NatsFan2013]

I have had this conversation with a lot of friends in the past (both low and high handicappers). My thoughts are that you see a significant improvement in your scoring when you establish a consistent course management strategy. I find that a lot of higher handicap golfers (lets say 10+) do a few things consistently that effect their scores:

1. They don't hit enough club. How many people have you played with that once hit a 5 iron 220 and are now convinced that they will always hit it that far? Most higher handicappers are consistently short of the hole on approach shots.
2. They try to hit shots that they are unlikely to pull off. For example they will try a fade off the tee on a dog-leg right. Why? just hit your normal shot - it is much more predictable.
3. Short game - enough said there
4. Equipment - This is one of the more important factors. If you don't have the right equipment it is difficult to improve. You are adjusting your game to your equipment rather than adjusting your equipment to your game.
5. Low handicappers bad shots are better than the bad shots for high handicappers. Seems obvious but I am not talking about dispersion. I am talking about good misses. Missing on the right side of the fairway, missing below the hole, hitting a poor shot that avoids the trouble.

To me these things really stand out when you play with high handicappers. 4 of the things listed here don't have much to do with your ability but rather have to do with your approach to the game.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1375868787' post='7622006']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1375823801' post='7618560']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1375757924' post='7613248']
Here's a thought: I make 90 percent of my birdies on the same 7 holes on my home course. I average 4 per round. On all other holes, I tell myself that "par is a good score" sometimes on those holes I accidentally hit it close or chip in or make a 30-40 footer. But I'm not trying to!!! I can't tell you how many doubles i see when my buddies try to birdie the wrong holes. Guys on tour in the last 3 groups are good enough and playing well enough that week to try to birdie the "wrong " holes. An average 5 simply shouldn't. Learn that and you'll be a 1 or 2 in a month.
[/quote]

Yes that is true but getting to a plus handicap level means you have to make three or four birdies a round, especially at your home course. Getting from a 5 to a 2 on a course rated 74 means you need 2 or 3 birdies to go with your 5 or 6 bogies. Get rid of the doubles and you only have to par half of the holes. I don't know what your course is rated but 6 bogies is A LOT of forgiveness. Turn the 6 into 3 and suddenly you're a scratch.

The point is that you don't have to birdie every damn hole. Just focus on the easy ones. And then play safe on the rest. We're not talking about getting on tour here, just getting to a 0....
[/quote]

This is superb advice, im a 2 hcap and have never really thought of it this way. am def going to try and implement this strategy this weekend.
[/quote]

Sometimes it's a change of perception that can make all the difference. Not just beating balls and looking at your swing plane, etc.......

[dreich54311]

[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375235280' post='7572834']
[quote name='J-Tizzle' timestamp='1375192522' post='7567988']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375192049' post='7567940']
The low low handicappers and pro level players I find are often very ambidextrous. They have good coordination with both arms/hands and my guess may often be opposite eye dominate from their dominate hand. I think this gives a good advantage to balance in putting, chipping, and full swing. Also, access and dedication to lots and lots of practice time.
[/quote]

Thats a very good point, I never really considered ambidextrousness a part of it.

The thing that makes the most sense to what you said was the access and dedication. When I was growing up and just picking up the game (13-14 probably) my family joined a course about 5 minutes from our house and when my dad went to work in the mornings at 6:30, he'd drop me off and I'd walk 18, hit balls, chip and putt for hours, dip in the pool, then try to win some money when the games would start when people got off work. I don't know how much better my shortgame shot by taking 5 balls and just randomly throwing them around the practice green and getting them up and down.
[/quote]Yeah, the ambidextrous observation is something I picked up watching pros get out of tough places using an opposite handed swing. I noticed their opposite handed swing looked just like their dominate handed swing! I think this allows their hands to work much better together rather than having a right hand dominate the feel. Remember Phil Mickelson is actually right handed. Not fool proof and I am sure their are exceptions, but I do think there is a special hand eye coordination in top level players. They can hit their strike targets with incredible precision.

But probably the access and time to practice is most important. Phil, Tiger, Rory, and many others all started playing golf very young. I have found that many pros grew up in privileged situations and were basically able to grow up on a golf course. I didn't start playing golf until I was 25. I got my handicap to 7.3 in 4 years, now it is back up over 10 I think because I have less time to practice. I grew up in the country were football was king, and so I didn't get into golf until much later. Had I started younger with proper instruction, I think I would be MUCH better.
[/quote]. Agree, great players have their forward arm as the dominant arm, are cross dominant or ambidextrous. Also the eye nearest the target may be the dominant eye with the otherside dominant in everything else as with Nicklaus. The forward arm must control the arc or the radius of the swing which can't be done if the dominant arm is the rearward arm

[Ezgolfer]

[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1375930508' post='7629188']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375235280' post='7572834']
[quote name='J-Tizzle' timestamp='1375192522' post='7567988']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375192049' post='7567940']
The low low handicappers and pro level players I find are often very ambidextrous. They have good coordination with both arms/hands and my guess may often be opposite eye dominate from their dominate hand. I think this gives a good advantage to balance in putting, chipping, and full swing. Also, access and dedication to lots and lots of practice time.
[/quote]

Thats a very good point, I never really considered ambidextrousness a part of it.

The thing that makes the most sense to what you said was the access and dedication. When I was growing up and just picking up the game (13-14 probably) my family joined a course about 5 minutes from our house and when my dad went to work in the mornings at 6:30, he'd drop me off and I'd walk 18, hit balls, chip and putt for hours, dip in the pool, then try to win some money when the games would start when people got off work. I don't know how much better my shortgame shot by taking 5 balls and just randomly throwing them around the practice green and getting them up and down.
[/quote]Yeah, the ambidextrous observation is something I picked up watching pros get out of tough places using an opposite handed swing. I noticed their opposite handed swing looked just like their dominate handed swing! I think this allows their hands to work much better together rather than having a right hand dominate the feel. Remember Phil Mickelson is actually right handed. Not fool proof and I am sure their are exceptions, but I do think there is a special hand eye coordination in top level players. They can hit their strike targets with incredible precision.

But probably the access and time to practice is most important. Phil, Tiger, Rory, and many others all started playing golf very young. I have found that many pros grew up in privileged situations and were basically able to grow up on a golf course. I didn't start playing golf until I was 25. I got my handicap to 7.3 in 4 years, now it is back up over 10 I think because I have less time to practice. I grew up in the country were football was king, and so I didn't get into golf until much later. Had I started younger with proper instruction, I think I would be MUCH better.
[/quote]. Agree, great players have their forward arm as the dominant arm, are cross dominant or ambidextrous. Also the eye nearest the target may be the dominant eye with the otherside dominant in everything else as with Nicklaus. The forward arm must control the arc or the radius of the swing which can't be done if the dominant arm is the rearward arm
[/quote]

Are you saying the right hand dominant are all doomed to play bad golf . I do nt buy it ....

[DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan]

I am left handed and left hand dominant. Play every sport left handed. Eat left handed, but write with my right hand

[Stryker]

[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1375930508' post='7629188']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375235280' post='7572834']
[quote name='J-Tizzle' timestamp='1375192522' post='7567988']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375192049' post='7567940']
The low low handicappers and pro level players I find are often very ambidextrous. They have good coordination with both arms/hands and my guess may often be opposite eye dominate from their dominate hand. I think this gives a good advantage to balance in putting, chipping, and full swing. Also, access and dedication to lots and lots of practice time.
[/quote]

Thats a very good point, I never really considered ambidextrousness a part of it.

The thing that makes the most sense to what you said was the access and dedication. When I was growing up and just picking up the game (13-14 probably) my family joined a course about 5 minutes from our house and when my dad went to work in the mornings at 6:30, he'd drop me off and I'd walk 18, hit balls, chip and putt for hours, dip in the pool, then try to win some money when the games would start when people got off work. I don't know how much better my shortgame shot by taking 5 balls and just randomly throwing them around the practice green and getting them up and down.
[/quote]Yeah, the ambidextrous observation is something I picked up watching pros get out of tough places using an opposite handed swing. I noticed their opposite handed swing looked just like their dominate handed swing! I think this allows their hands to work much better together rather than having a right hand dominate the feel. Remember Phil Mickelson is actually right handed. Not fool proof and I am sure their are exceptions, but I do think there is a special hand eye coordination in top level players. They can hit their strike targets with incredible precision.

But probably the access and time to practice is most important. Phil, Tiger, Rory, and many others all started playing golf very young. I have found that many pros grew up in privileged situations and were basically able to grow up on a golf course. I didn't start playing golf until I was 25. I got my handicap to 7.3 in 4 years, now it is back up over 10 I think because I have less time to practice. I grew up in the country were football was king, and so I didn't get into golf until much later. Had I started younger with proper instruction, I think I would be MUCH better.
[/quote]. Agree, great players have their forward arm as the dominant arm, are cross dominant or ambidextrous. Also the eye nearest the target may be the dominant eye with the otherside dominant in everything else as with Nicklaus. [b]The forward arm must control the arc or the radius of the swing which can't be done if the dominant arm is the rearward arm[/b]
[/quote]

This is just all sorts of wrong. Forward arm doesn't do anything except connect to the chest at certain points in the swing. Trail arm is where the magic is.

[apprenti23]

Anybody can hit a ball swinging full at it. Golf is difficult because of the shots where you can NOT swing full. The feel shots so to speak. Those come from practice. Most scratch golfers got that way through TONS of practice.

[apprenti23]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1375967674' post='7630952']

This is just all sorts of wrong. [b]Forward arm doesn't do anything except connect to the chest at certain points in the swing[/b]. Trail arm is where the magic is.
[/quote]

Please God don't let this man be a golf instructor!

[Stryker]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1375972015' post='7631574']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1375967674' post='7630952']
This is just all sorts of wrong. [b]Forward arm doesn't do anything except connect to the chest at certain points in the swing[/b]. Trail arm is where the magic is.
[/quote]

Please God don't let this man be a golf instructor!
[/quote]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/832733-the-arm-swing-illusion/

Enjoy......

[DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan]

I am going to go ahead and say that I think ambidexterity has very little to do with a golfer being good. Just my opinion. I am also a believer that getting too mechanical is problematic.

[Dillinger]

I think at some point after enough time practicing and playing and really putting time into your game something just clicks.
I am not a fast learner but when I get something I can excel way above the average person. If I can learn to play golf anyone that physically can play can do it. Once it clicks and you find your swing and you can hit the ball straight, putt and use your wedges you can work on perfecting everything and that's when you will drop your handicap and you will tap into your game. Once it clicked for me I went from a 8 handicap to scratch in a year and was playing under par rounds every other day. But I personally think it all come down to WORK, how much work you put into it. I played 27 holes every other day and was at the range the data I didn't play. Even on play days I would spend at least a hour minimal before and after playing. Maybe some people have a little but of natural talent but if you put in the work I bet you are a great putter or ball striker or you might have a naturally talented short game? I didn't have it come naturally but I still have mad game and have a 4 handicap after 2 serious injuries to my back but it took a crap load if practice to get there. Just work on your game. I am trying to teach 2 people the basics of golf and I know they don't have any untapped knowledge of the game!

[Tank.Bobcat.Watts]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1375971938' post='7631560']
Anybody can hit a ball swinging full at it. Golf is difficult because of the shots where you can NOT swing full. The feel shots so to speak. Those come from practice. Most scratch golfers got that way through TONS of practice.
[/quote]
+1

Distance control is a priority when it comes to lowering scores. It doesnt matter if you can drive a ball inside 50 yards if you cannot control your distances with partial swings. Turning 3 shots into 2 around the greens is the secret.

[sleepy_augusto]

[quote name='Tank.Bobcat.Watts' timestamp='1376436814' post='7671144']
[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1375971938' post='7631560']
Anybody can hit a ball swinging full at it. Golf is difficult because of the shots where you can NOT swing full. The feel shots so to speak. Those come from practice. Most scratch golfers got that way through TONS of practice.
[/quote]
+1

Distance control is a priority when it comes to lowering scores. It doesnt matter if you can drive a ball inside 50 yards if you cannot control your distances with partial swings. Turning 3 shots into 2 around the greens is the secret.
[/quote]

Watched this come true yesterday for a nice fellow I played with. He was long, had solid irons, but only one time out of five did he put the ball into a good place with a shot between 30-80 yards. Figuring his score should have at least been 2-3 shots lower, it would have been close to breaking 80.

Thanks again everyone.

[ABgolfer2]

Lol - I learned on this page that high cap (like a 10?) amateurs make the mistake of coming up short due to under clubbing, but good players make good misses by leaving the ball short of the hole. Perception indeed.

[dreich54311]

I couldn't agree more. It also works quite well if you play opposite handed, that is a left hander who plays righty and vise versa. The key is that the forward arm must establish the arc or radius of the swing. It is the only way you can consistently get the club face square to the ball at impact. It's not a matter of power but rather control. Then if you get the club into the proper position at the top of the backswing which means you've coiled properly the downswing occurs reflexly with no effort or thought on the part of the player.

[jonnygrouville]

Can only echo what has been said before. From my visits to scratch and under, it is about the misses. College days I hit a draw, but had a very reliable anti-left shot when I needed it. Hit lots of greens and hit it much further than I do now (in the days before the big titanium drivers). Short game never good enough though.

Second trip more recently, lost the draw and anti-left, so did have a two-sided miss, but got my short game into a different league than it was before.

The second was a more honest attainable version of scratch golf, if you know what I mean, the former being the more intangible game. Unlikely I will ever get version 1.0 back, but giving version 2.1 a good go.

[dreich54311]

[quote name='Magician' timestamp='1375578998' post='7599464']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1375575283' post='7599216']
[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1375568225' post='7598740']
Really good players are good from the time they first pick up the club--scratch usually within a few years. This is because their dominant arm is their lead arm or they are cross dominant. This allows them to easily control the forward arm so that it can define the arc or radius of the swing which is the most critical element of the the golf swing. If your dominant arm is the rearward arm is dominant it it will always be a struggle to play well and require a lot of practice and play.
[/quote]

ummmm.....I know quite a few that claim their dominant arm as their rear arm.....wasn't Ben hogan one of them with the whole 3 right hands bit?
[/quote] This poster repeatedly pursues this claim I see no merit in his claim or his previous empirical evidence.

I wouldn't you expect you to see any merit to my claim as your mind is closed to to anything but your own ideas. My theory is based on simple physics and common sense.

By the way if anyone wants to review the evidence that I posted to support my theories please see my post on the thread I started a month or so ago: "The Golf swing is like a Tennis Backhand". It is basically a referenced report of many great player who played with the dominant arm the lead arm comments by many great players and teachers who emphasized the importance of the left arm being the lead arm in the swing. Read it and decide for yourself its significance.
[/quote]

[Guardian5]

Are these the sort of stats that you are referring to?
In all USTA and ETA statistics the backhand is a shot that has a lower percentage of winners, is hit with more unforced errors, and to top it off is hit at a slower speed.

I know where common sense points me.

[dreich54311]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1375933037' post='7629460']
[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1375930508' post='7629188']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375235280' post='7572834']
[quote name='J-Tizzle' timestamp='1375192522' post='7567988']
[quote name='buckeye2782' timestamp='1375192049' post='7567940']
The low low handicappers and pro level players I find are often very ambidextrous. They have good coordination with both arms/hands and my guess may often be opposite eye dominate from their dominate hand. I think this gives a good advantage to balance in putting, chipping, and full swing. Also, access and dedication to lots and lots of practice time.
[/quote]

Thats a very good point, I never really considered ambidextrousness a part of it.

The thing that makes the most sense to what you said was the access and dedication. When I was growing up and just picking up the game (13-14 probably) my family joined a course about 5 minutes from our house and when my dad went to work in the mornings at 6:30, he'd drop me off and I'd walk 18, hit balls, chip and putt for hours, dip in the pool, then try to win some money when the games would start when people got off work. I don't know how much better my shortgame shot by taking 5 balls and just randomly throwing them around the practice green and getting them up and down.
[/quote]Yeah, the ambidextrous observation is something I picked up watching pros get out of tough places using an opposite handed swing. I noticed their opposite handed swing looked just like their dominate handed swing! I think this allows their hands to work much better together rather than having a right hand dominate the feel. Remember Phil Mickelson is actually right handed. Not fool proof and I am sure their are exceptions, but I do think there is a special hand eye coordination in top level players. They can hit their strike targets with incredible precision.

But probably the access and time to practice is most important. Phil, Tiger, Rory, and many others all started playing golf very young. I have found that many pros grew up in privileged situations and were basically able to grow up on a golf course. I didn't start playing golf until I was 25. I got my handicap to 7.3 in 4 years, now it is back up over 10 I think because I have less time to practice. I grew up in the country were football was king, and so I didn't get into golf until much later. Had I started younger with proper instruction, I think I would be MUCH better.
[/quote]. Agree, great players have their forward arm as the dominant arm, are cross dominant or ambidextrous. Also the eye nearest the target may be the dominant eye with the otherside dominant in everything else as with Nicklaus. The forward arm must control the arc or the radius of the swing which can't be done if the dominant arm is the rearward arm
[/quote]

Are you saying the right hand dominant are all doomed to play bad golf . I do nt buy it ....
[/quote]

Right handers playing righty can play good golf if they practice and play a lot but the chance that they will be great golfers are slim to none

[dreich54311]

I am reposting my essay supporting the idea that the leading arm must be the dominant arm or the golfer must be cross dominant so posters are able to take potshots at it:

Support for the concept that the dominant arm must be the leading arm or the player must be cross dominate emanates from the fact that many (if not most) tour players swing in this manner. The following is a list of the great players who have been reported to swing or to have swung with the lead arm the dominant arm or they are cross dominant. Following this I will list the great players and the renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for the lead arm to be the dominant arm.

Bobby Jones, Armaud Massey, Johnny Goodman, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan (controversial), Jimmy Demaret, Johnny Miller, David Graham, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Fuzzy Zoeller, Raymond Floyd, Nick Price, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Curtis Strange, Tom Kite, Vijah Singh, Michael Campbell, Trevor Immelman, Sergio Garcia, Scott Piercy, Edoardo Molinari, Bob Charles, Phil Michelson, Mike Weir, Nick Ohern, Richard Green, Steve Flesch, Brian Harman, Christie Kerr, Hollis Stacy, JoAnne Carner, Pat Hurst , Sally Little, and Beth Daniel.

Johnny Bulla swung, and Mac O'Grady and Adam Scott swing with almost equal proficiency from both sides.

Jack Nicklaus was left eye dominant (cross dominant).

Old Tom Morris, Young Tom Morris, and Harry Vardon in photos were observed to perform activities that suggested that they might be left side dominant or cross-dominant.

Great players and renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for lead arm dominance or the player be cross dominant:

Tom Watson, Bob Toski, Dean Beman, Ben Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Dick Aultman, Joe Norwood, Alex Morrison, and Ernest Jones.

References: "Groove the Swing My Way"--Lee Trevino; "Shape Your Swing the Modern Way"--Byron Nelson; "Bobby Jones on Golf"--Bobby Jones; "Golf-O-Metric"--Joe Norwood; "Two Handed Sports X Factor"--Michael Holden; NY Times May 6, 2012; "Get a Grip to Modern Golf"--BBC Sports; "Brian Harmon Won't Wilt With Golf"--ESPN Sports December, 2011; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Who Becomes a Left-Handed Golfer"--Nancy Kapitanoff (Blog); "One Magical Sunday"--Phil Michelson; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Masters Champ to Stay Left Handed"--Norman Mair, The Telegraph, July 15, 2003; "Left is Right on the PGA Tour for most Golfers"--Savannah Morning News; "Vijah Singh-Skill Shot"--oneput (CHRISTOPHOTO)( Blog), October12, 2011; "Better Golf Without Practice"--Alex Morrison; "Getting Set for Golf"--Carl Lohren.

[mccarthyizm]

[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1376864341' post='7700562']
I am reposting my essay supporting the idea that the leading arm must be the dominant arm or the golfer must be cross dominant so posters are able to take potshots at it:

Support for the concept that the dominant arm must be the leading arm or the player must be cross dominate emanates from the fact that many (if not most) tour players swing in this manner. The following is a list of the great players who have been reported to swing or to have swung with the lead arm the dominant arm or they are cross dominant. Following this I will list the great players and the renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for the lead arm to be the dominant arm.

Bobby Jones, Armaud Massey, Johnny Goodman, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan (controversial), Jimmy Demaret, Johnny Miller, David Graham, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Fuzzy Zoeller, Raymond Floyd, Nick Price, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Curtis Strange, Tom Kite, Vijah Singh, Michael Campbell, Trevor Immelman, Sergio Garcia, Scott Piercy, Edoardo Molinari, Bob Charles, Phil Michelson, Mike Weir, Nick Ohern, Richard Green, Steve Flesch, Brian Harman, Christie Kerr, Hollis Stacy, JoAnne Carner, Pat Hurst , Sally Little, and Beth Daniel.

Johnny Bulla swung, and Mac O'Grady and Adam Scott swing with almost equal proficiency from both sides.

Jack Nicklaus was left eye dominant (cross dominant).

Old Tom Morris, Young Tom Morris, and Harry Vardon in photos were observed to perform activities that suggested that they might be left side dominant or cross-dominant.

Great players and renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for lead arm dominance or the player be cross dominant:

Tom Watson, Bob Toski, Dean Beman, Ben Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Dick Aultman, Joe Norwood, Alex Morrison, and Ernest Jones.

References: "Groove the Swing My Way"--Lee Trevino; "Shape Your Swing the Modern Way"--Byron Nelson; "Bobby Jones on Golf"--Bobby Jones; "Golf-O-Metric"--Joe Norwood; "Two Handed Sports X Factor"--Michael Holden; NY Times May 6, 2012; "Get a Grip to Modern Golf"--BBC Sports; "Brian Harmon Won't Wilt With Golf"--ESPN Sports December, 2011; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Who Becomes a Left-Handed Golfer"--Nancy Kapitanoff (Blog); "One Magical Sunday"--Phil Michelson; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Masters Champ to Stay Left Handed"--Norman Mair, The Telegraph, July 15, 2003; "Left is Right on the PGA Tour for most Golfers"--Savannah Morning News; "Vijah Singh-Skill Shot"--oneput (CHRISTOPHOTO)( Blog), October12, 2011; "Better Golf Without Practice"--Alex Morrison; "Getting Set for Golf"--Carl Lohren.
[/quote]

Since when does the thought that the lead arm dominates = righties playing right handed are screwed? How many of those players on your list are righties playing lefty or vice-versa?

I'm a lefty playing right-handed, and it's taken a lot of work for me to get away from all the terrible tendencies it can cause. Ask anybody who likes to yank the club steep from the top about the joys of having their strong hand in front. It's like the ultimate temptation.

I'm not saying all lefties should play left-handed or vice versa, but it seems to me that the vast majority of golfers I know, good and bad, are righties playing right-handed.

[Ezgolfer]

Tiger wood is missing from the extensive list . He played right handed from childhood (see video's) and is right handed .

[Guardian5]

Soundbites here and there from pro's and teachers whom change swing thoughts as they do socks, along with photographs that could suggest other handedness of golfers that were relevant a century ago is what you base a list on?
Just respond to why the tennis backhand is the weaker, less accurate shot and let's go from there.

[dreich54311]

[quote name='mccarthyizm' timestamp='1376865999' post='7700776']
[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1376864341' post='7700562']
I am reposting my essay supporting the idea that the leading arm must be the dominant arm or the golfer must be cross dominant so posters are able to take potshots at it:

Support for the concept that the dominant arm must be the leading arm or the player must be cross dominate emanates from the fact that many (if not most) tour players swing in this manner. The following is a list of the great players who have been reported to swing or to have swung with the lead arm the dominant arm or they are cross dominant. Following this I will list the great players and the renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for the lead arm to be the dominant arm.

Bobby Jones, Armaud Massey, Johnny Goodman, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan (controversial), Jimmy Demaret, Johnny Miller, David Graham, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Fuzzy Zoeller, Raymond Floyd, Nick Price, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Curtis Strange, Tom Kite, Vijah Singh, Michael Campbell, Trevor Immelman, Sergio Garcia, Scott Piercy, Edoardo Molinari, Bob Charles, Phil Michelson, Mike Weir, Nick Ohern, Richard Green, Steve Flesch, Brian Harman, Christie Kerr, Hollis Stacy, JoAnne Carner, Pat Hurst , Sally Little, and Beth Daniel.

Johnny Bulla swung, and Mac O'Grady and Adam Scott swing with almost equal proficiency from both sides.

Jack Nicklaus was left eye dominant (cross dominant).

Old Tom Morris, Young Tom Morris, and Harry Vardon in photos were observed to perform activities that suggested that they might be left side dominant or cross-dominant.

Great players and renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for lead arm dominance or the player be cross dominant:

Tom Watson, Bob Toski, Dean Beman, Ben Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Dick Aultman, Joe Norwood, Alex Morrison, and Ernest Jones.

References: "Groove the Swing My Way"--Lee Trevino; "Shape Your Swing the Modern Way"--Byron Nelson; "Bobby Jones on Golf"--Bobby Jones; "Golf-O-Metric"--Joe Norwood; "Two Handed Sports X Factor"--Michael Holden; NY Times May 6, 2012; "Get a Grip to Modern Golf"--BBC Sports; "Brian Harmon Won't Wilt With Golf"--ESPN Sports December, 2011; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Who Becomes a Left-Handed Golfer"--Nancy Kapitanoff (Blog); "One Magical Sunday"--Phil Michelson; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Masters Champ to Stay Left Handed"--Norman Mair, The Telegraph, July 15, 2003; "Left is Right on the PGA Tour for most Golfers"--Savannah Morning News; "Vijah Singh-Skill Shot"--oneput (CHRISTOPHOTO)( Blog), October12, 2011; "Better Golf Without Practice"--Alex Morrison; "Getting Set for Golf"--Carl Lohren.
[/quote]

Since when does the thought that the lead arm dominates = righties playing right handed are screwed? How many of those players on your list are righties playing lefty or vice-versa?

I'm a lefty playing right-handed, and it's taken a lot of work for me to get away from all the terrible tendencies it can cause. Ask anybody who likes to yank the club steep from the top about the joys of having their strong hand in front. It's like the ultimate temptation.

I'm not saying all lefties should play left-handed or vice versa, but it seems to me that the vast majority of golfers I know, good and bad, are righties playing right-handed.

All players on the list are lefties playing right handed or vise versa or they are cross dominant.

The lead hand provides control not power. You can control things much better with your dominant hand, that is why you use it almost in everything you do. The trailing hand provides most of the power as it extends through the ball.
[/quote]

Every player on the list are [quote name='mccarthyizm' timestamp='1376865999' post='7700776']
[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1376864341' post='7700562']
I am reposting my essay supporting the idea that the leading arm must be the dominant arm or the golfer must be cross dominant so posters are able to take potshots at it:

Support for the concept that the dominant arm must be the leading arm or the player must be cross dominate emanates from the fact that many (if not most) tour players swing in this manner. The following is a list of the great players who have been reported to swing or to have swung with the lead arm the dominant arm or they are cross dominant. Following this I will list the great players and the renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for the lead arm to be the dominant arm.

Bobby Jones, Armaud Massey, Johnny Goodman, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan (controversial), Jimmy Demaret, Johnny Miller, David Graham, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Fuzzy Zoeller, Raymond Floyd, Nick Price, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Curtis Strange, Tom Kite, Vijah Singh, Michael Campbell, Trevor Immelman, Sergio Garcia, Scott Piercy, Edoardo Molinari, Bob Charles, Phil Michelson, Mike Weir, Nick Ohern, Richard Green, Steve Flesch, Brian Harman, Christie Kerr, Hollis Stacy, JoAnne Carner, Pat Hurst , Sally Little, and Beth Daniel.

Johnny Bulla swung, and Mac O'Grady and Adam Scott swing with almost equal proficiency from both sides.

Jack Nicklaus was left eye dominant (cross dominant).

Old Tom Morris, Young Tom Morris, and Harry Vardon in photos were observed to perform activities that suggested that they might be left side dominant or cross-dominant.

Great players and renowned instructors who have made strong statements about the need for lead arm dominance or the player be cross dominant:

Tom Watson, Bob Toski, Dean Beman, Ben Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Lee Trevino, Dick Aultman, Joe Norwood, Alex Morrison, and Ernest Jones.

References: "Groove the Swing My Way"--Lee Trevino; "Shape Your Swing the Modern Way"--Byron Nelson; "Bobby Jones on Golf"--Bobby Jones; "Golf-O-Metric"--Joe Norwood; "Two Handed Sports X Factor"--Michael Holden; NY Times May 6, 2012; "Get a Grip to Modern Golf"--BBC Sports; "Brian Harmon Won't Wilt With Golf"--ESPN Sports December, 2011; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Who Becomes a Left-Handed Golfer"--Nancy Kapitanoff (Blog); "One Magical Sunday"--Phil Michelson; "Left Handed Golf"--Bob Charles; "Masters Champ to Stay Left Handed"--Norman Mair, The Telegraph, July 15, 2003; "Left is Right on the PGA Tour for most Golfers"--Savannah Morning News; "Vijah Singh-Skill Shot"--oneput (CHRISTOPHOTO)( Blog), October12, 2011; "Better Golf Without Practice"--Alex Morrison; "Getting Set for Golf"--Carl Lohren.
[/quote]

Since when does the thought that the lead arm dominates = righties playing right handed are screwed? How many of those players on your list are righties playing lefty or vice-versa?

I'm a lefty playing right-handed, and it's taken a lot of work for me to get away from all the terrible tendencies it can cause. Ask anybody who likes to yank the club steep from the top about the joys of having their strong hand in front. It's like the ultimate temptation.

I'm not saying all lefties should play left-handed or vice versa, but it seems to me that the vast majority of golfers I know, good and bad, are righties playing right-handed.
[/quote]

[dreich54311]

[quote name='Magician' timestamp='1376876719' post='7702078']
Soundbites here and there from pro's and teachers whom change swing thoughts as they do socks, along with photographs that could suggest other handedness of golfers that were relevant a century ago is what you base a list on?
Just respond to why the tennis backhand is the weaker, less accurate shot and let's go

Your comment doesn't justify a response.
[/quote]

[Guardian5]

[quote name='dreich54311' timestamp='1376890423' post='7703224']
[quote name='Magician' timestamp='1376876719' post='7702078']
Soundbites here and there from pro's and teachers whom change swing thoughts as they do socks, along with photographs that could suggest other handedness of golfers that were relevant a century ago is what you base a list on?
Just respond to why the tennis backhand is the weaker, less accurate shot and let's go

Your comment doesn't justify a response.
[/quote]
[/quote]
So once again you are unable to offer any support.
The fact remains (and I use your example the tennis backhand), that all the statistical data from the USTA and LTA shows the backhand to be a shot that hits less winners, and is hit with less speed.
Have you used this reasoning to justify to yourself your golfing inadequacies?