Golf and Relationships... Am I the problem?

[SMAKCruiser]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375300235' post='7578022']
[quote name='SMAKCruiser' timestamp='1375190785' post='7567768']
How many of you have broken up with their girlfriend/wife/fiance over the game?

I only ask because over the past 4 years I have ended two longish relationships due to my obsession with the game. One was almost two years and the other was one year. Both ended with two memorable quotes, "I wish you worked on us as much as you worked on your golf game" and the other was "wish you cared as much for me as you do for golf" I can't argue with them because I would rather play, practice and BST then spend time with them. Evenings during the week are dedicated to range time, putting and playing some holes and weekends are for as many rounds as I possibly can get in. Neither of them understood the equipment obsession...

So am I a bad guy because I would rather play golf then spend time with my girl (ex's now) or is the game of golf that one lady you don't mess with and it is just weeding out the ones that I shouldn't be with because I will find one that understands it all someday?
[/quote]

Depends....what is your life like in NY during the winter, when you can't play and practice everyday?

[/quote]

In the winter golf gets kicked to the side a bit besides some BST and indoor putting for maybe 10-15 minutes here and there. I play hockey a few nights a week but for the most part I am just sitting around working or waiting for spring. I will go out to the bar scene downtown a lot, so in the winter I am free for quite a bit of time.

[mikpga]

How important is a relationship to you?

Simply a matter of priorities...

If you find the right one who understands your love/passion/obsession to golf, then great!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='SMAKCruiser' timestamp='1375362917' post='7582494']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375300235' post='7578022']
[quote name='SMAKCruiser' timestamp='1375190785' post='7567768']
How many of you have broken up with their girlfriend/wife/fiance over the game?

I only ask because over the past 4 years I have ended two longish relationships due to my obsession with the game. One was almost two years and the other was one year. Both ended with two memorable quotes, "I wish you worked on us as much as you worked on your golf game" and the other was "wish you cared as much for me as you do for golf" I can't argue with them because I would rather play, practice and BST then spend time with them. Evenings during the week are dedicated to range time, putting and playing some holes and weekends are for as many rounds as I possibly can get in. Neither of them understood the equipment obsession...

So am I a bad guy because I would rather play golf then spend time with my girl (ex's now) or is the game of golf that one lady you don't mess with and it is just weeding out the ones that I shouldn't be with because I will find one that understands it all someday?
[/quote]

Depends....what is your life like in NY during the winter, when you can't play and practice everyday?

[/quote]

In the winter golf gets kicked to the side a bit besides some BST and indoor putting for maybe 10-15 minutes here and there. I play hockey a few nights a week but for the most part I am just sitting around working or waiting for spring. I will go out to the bar scene downtown a lot, so in the winter I am free for quite a bit of time.
[/quote]

Sounds to me like you haven't met the right woman yet.

Like I said earlier, the right woman will add so much to your life that you'll WANT to make room for her in your day...and likewise, she will understand and honor the fact that you have passions for other things.

For example, I had misgivings from Day One when it became known that Tiger was dating Elin...and they only got worse when they decided to get married. The problem I had was the fact that being a professional athlete---and one of the caliber that Tiger was committed to being---takes a tremendous committment of time and energy. Add to that, the fact that a tour pro is living out of a suitcase for up to 6 months out of the year, and you have a situation where there is very limited time to dedicate to nurturing a marriage. Imo, what Tiger needed was a "low-maintenance" woman. One who was independant, and had a life of her own...but was willing to share it with Tiger. Not one who was looking for her relationship with him to give her a life.

...and I've yet to meet a model---former or otherwise---who is that kind of low-maintenance. Trophy wives are never low-maintenance.

OTOH, I see his relationship with Lindsey Vonn as having a much better chance of long-term survival. Because (at least outwardly) she comes accross as that low-maintenance woman. She is a world-class athelete in her own right. She's understands and is not going to begrudge the time away from her that he needs to succeed in his career.

..and I'm betting she's a more interesting person to come home and talk to than Elin was.

Ideally, you need someone who has an active, busy life of her own. That way she'll honor your need to pursue your own passions. Rather than spend all your free time at home, trying to make her feel "special".

[jho786]

I am a young guy (27) and like the OP have had 2 relationships where golf was a problem. The common denominator was that I didn't spend enough time with them and more on golf. This usually annoyed me because I felt that I did a good job balancing golf and the relationship. Looking back, both girls weren't working full time jobs and didn't have their own hobbies or interests that took up their free time. Yes it was fun being with them but when I wasn't, constant whining and just asking when I expect to be there just got to be too much.

I agree with the other WRXrs that you need to find a girl who plays golf, has their own hobbies or just understands your passion. From experience, I am always going to say that I play golf on the weekends and thats my thing, otherwise Im almost always available. If they have an issue with it at first, fine no time wasted on them. However, as the relationship continues and then the complaints happen, its' either time for a serious talk or just end the relationship.

You only get 1 shot at life and why put yourself in situations where you're not happy? Now I'm totally fine being single until I find the right girl for me that gets my hobby. You can make a decision to wake up super early and then have the rest of the day to do stuff (which IMO is the best way) or just understand that you won't be able to play as much and be happy with it.

[poops]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375364821' post='7582690']
[quote name='SMAKCruiser' timestamp='1375362917' post='7582494']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375300235' post='7578022']
[quote name='SMAKCruiser' timestamp='1375190785' post='7567768']
How many of you have broken up with their girlfriend/wife/fiance over the game?

I only ask because over the past 4 years I have ended two longish relationships due to my obsession with the game. One was almost two years and the other was one year. Both ended with two memorable quotes, "I wish you worked on us as much as you worked on your golf game" and the other was "wish you cared as much for me as you do for golf" I can't argue with them because I would rather play, practice and BST then spend time with them. Evenings during the week are dedicated to range time, putting and playing some holes and weekends are for as many rounds as I possibly can get in. Neither of them understood the equipment obsession...

So am I a bad guy because I would rather play golf then spend time with my girl (ex's now) or is the game of golf that one lady you don't mess with and it is just weeding out the ones that I shouldn't be with because I will find one that understands it all someday?
[/quote]

Depends....what is your life like in NY during the winter, when you can't play and practice everyday?

[/quote]

In the winter golf gets kicked to the side a bit besides some BST and indoor putting for maybe 10-15 minutes here and there. I play hockey a few nights a week but for the most part I am just sitting around working or waiting for spring. I will go out to the bar scene downtown a lot, so in the winter I am free for quite a bit of time.
[/quote]

Sounds to me like you haven't met the right woman yet.

Like I said earlier, the right woman will add so much to your life that you'll WANT to make room for her in your day...and likewise, she will understand and honor the fact that you have passions for other things.

For example, I had misgivings from Day One when it became known that Tiger was dating Elin...and they only got worse when they decided to get married. The problem I had was the fact that being a professional athlete---and one of the caliber that Tiger was committed to being---takes a tremendous committment of time and energy. Add to that, the fact that a tour pro is living out of a suitcase for up to 6 months out of the year, and you have a situation where there is very limited time to dedicate to nurturing a marriage. Imo, what Tiger needed was a "low-maintenance" woman. One who was independant, and had a life of her own...but was willing to share it with Tiger. Not one who was looking for her relationship with him to give her a life.

...and I've yet to meet a model---former or otherwise---who is that kind of low-maintenance. Trophy wives are never low-maintenance.

OTOH, I see his relationship with Lindsey Vonn as having a much better chance of long-term survival. Because (at least outwardly) she comes accross as that low-maintenance woman. [b]She is a world-class athelete in her own right. She's understands and is not going to begrudge the time away from her that he needs to succeed in his career.[/b]

..and I'm betting she's a more interesting person to come home and talk to than Elin was.

[b]Ideally, you need someone who has an active, busy life of her own.[/b] That way she'll honor your need to pursue your own passions. Rather than spend all your free time at home, trying to make her feel "special".
[/quote]

Plus, they have opposite sporting seasons. She ski's in the winter, he plays golf in the Summer (mostly...). Probably helps...

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='24hrclown' timestamp='1375257713' post='7574404']
I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I took up golf to have something else to share with my boyfriend. I birdied my first hole, and was hooked.

Now, I try to play as often as I can and even hide that from him. I don't ask him to play with me anymore because I know he's just not into it. He used to belong to a country club with a great course but he spends his time in other things. Guys I meet on the course are dumbfounded, but it is what it is.
[/quote]

Do you have a sister that lives in IL by any chance?

[SMAKCruiser]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1375374142' post='7583810']
[quote name='24hrclown' timestamp='1375257713' post='7574404']
I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I took up golf to have something else to share with my boyfriend. I birdied my first hole, and was hooked.

Now, I try to play as often as I can and even hide that from him. I don't ask him to play with me anymore because I know he's just not into it. He used to belong to a country club with a great course but he spends his time in other things. Guys I meet on the course are dumbfounded, but it is what it is.
[/quote]

Do you have a sister that lives in IL by any chance?
[/quote]

Or Rochester NY??? LOL

[_MS22_]

Do whatever it is that makes you happy brother.

Sure they may rightly feel emotionally neglected as you spend 10x more time working on your golf than your relationship but there are other issues at hand as well. The issue more than likely is that these women are about your age? 28-32? Their market value is rapidly decreasing and they know it. They've been to all their friends weddings now, some are popping out kids, etc. Yet here you are, dedicated to a hobby you love. Working for 10 years now you are finally earning a great wage and life as a single guy isn't so bad in terms of lifestyle, financials, options, etc. Your market value is still increasing as a single guy aged 30-35. I realize that it isn't 1940 any longer but society still accepts this moniker. As soon as women hit that age where looks begin to diminish they for the most part freak out. You are seeing this now as they are looking for a serious end-game relationship before their stock drops any further. Sure there are the single women committed to their careers or such but I'm talking about the majority. I'm approaching 30 and have this talk with female friends, my wife's friends, co-workers, etc all the time.

If I were you I'd just keep living how you want so long as you are happy, and if that means enjoying life and playing the DENNIS system forever so be it.

Not posting due to some language but read this:
http://kontramensch.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/ouat.png

[SMAKCruiser]

[quote name='_MS22_' timestamp='1375380978' post='7584724']
Do whatever it is that makes you happy brother.

Sure they may rightly feel emotionally neglected as you spend 10x more time working on your golf than your relationship but there are other issues at hand as well. The issue more than likely is that these women are about your age? 28-32? Their market value is rapidly decreasing and they know it. They've been to all their friends weddings now, some are popping out kids, etc. Yet here you are, dedicated to a hobby you love. Working for 10 years now you are finally earning a great wage and life as a single guy isn't so bad in terms of lifestyle, financials, options, etc. Your market value is still increasing as a single guy aged 30-35. I realize that it isn't 1940 any longer but society still accepts this moniker. As soon as women hit that age where looks begin to diminish they for the most part freak out. You are seeing this now as they are looking for a serious end-game relationship before their stock drops any further. Sure there are the single women committed to their careers or such but I'm talking about the majority. I'm approaching 30 and have this talk with female friends, my wife's friends, co-workers, etc all the time.

If I were you I'd just keep living how you want so long as you are happy, and if that means enjoying life and playing the DENNIS system forever so be it.

Not posting due to some language but read this:
[url="http://kontramensch.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/ouat.png"]http://kontramensch....011/05/ouat.png[/url]
[/quote]

LOL.... The DENNIS system really works too!!! For those who have tried it...

[8thehardway]

Get an AstroTurf bed cover, a Master's Pin Flag and date tall, thin women who look like flagpoles.

[Titleist 670]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375364821' post='7582690']

For example, I had misgivings from Day One when it became known that Tiger was dating Elin...and they only got worse when they decided to get married. The problem I had was the fact that being a professional athlete---and one of the caliber that Tiger was committed to being---takes a tremendous committment of time and energy. Add to that, the fact that a tour pro is living out of a suitcase for up to 6 months out of the year, and you have a situation where there is very limited time to dedicate to nurturing a marriage. Imo, what Tiger needed was a "low-maintenance" woman. One who was independant, and had a life of her own...but was willing to share it with Tiger. Not one who was looking for her relationship with him to give her a life.

...and I've yet to meet a model---former or otherwise---who is that kind of low-maintenance. Trophy wives are never low-maintenance.

OTOH, I see his relationship with Lindsey Vonn as having a much better chance of long-term survival. Because (at least outwardly) she comes accross as that low-maintenance woman. She is a world-class athelete in her own right. She's understands and is not going to begrudge the time away from her that he needs to succeed in his career.

..and I'm betting she's a more interesting person to come home and talk to than Elin was.

Ideally, you need someone who has an active, busy life of her own. That way she'll honor your need to pursue your own passions. Rather than spend all your free time at home, trying to make her feel "special".
[/quote]

Yes, clearly Elin being "high maintenance" was what caused Tiger to sleep with waitresses, hookers, porn stars, and every other woman under the sun whenever he had a free moment.

I'm pretty sure Tiger is just a huge dirt bag, as are a ton of professional athletes - end of story.

[Titleist 670]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1375356146' post='7581942']


Disagree:

Is he unconventional and a bit jaded? Sure.

Miserable? Not necessarily.

He's just someone who has seen through the cultural mythology of "Happily Ever After" that society tries to paint around marriage.

...and most of the problems (which he accurately characterizes, imo, everywhere but in his point #6), stem from the fact that most people get married too young to know who they are themselves, and what they really want out of life...and enter into them thinking that it is the job of someone else to give them a life, and to make them "happy". Which isn't anyone else's job....and that's a good thing, because they can't do it anyway.

Where he gets it wrong, imo, is not that Relationships (in general) are power-struggles. BAD relationships are power struggles...and you tend to find more of them on the Road of Life than you find good ones. Good relationships are shared experience, and maintained with caring an compromise...but they are the ICING on the Cake of Happiness. Not the cake itself.

...and too many people---especially women---are brought up to believe that they are that cake.
[/quote]

You forgot about the part where he compared having a child to owning a pet turtle. You have to be pretty miserable to make that comparison. It's laughable.

[SMAKCruiser]

We can probably go ahead and lock ths.... it doesn't need to be a feud about tiger and Elin!

[Krt22]

This is about turtles not tigers!

[Ezgolfer]

This is endless ..
There are two type of people in this thread ..
Selfish, negative about marriage and Kids , a lot has to do with their personal experience and others who are on the opposite end of spectrum with happy married life.
You will get biased information and should use your filter to take these opinions with a grain of salt and use in your case .
One thing is clear either way casual or serious partners, find the right person and you will be fine .

[SatelliteGuy]

I showed the Dennis System to my wife while I was laughing and all she could say was..


" it really does make the milk go bad quicker "

[sosinsurr]

My fiance and I are both ex- college athletes, and I think that part helped that both being student-athletes, we were on our own schedules. Both of our collegiate careers were ended by injuries, but I stick around the game of golf. Just not where I once was.

I have the same obsession. Always playing and practicing, always having new clubs come to the front door with old ones going out. So what I did was introduce her to the game of golf. Got her a complete set and have begun teaching her the game. She gets frustrated when she misses or doesn't hit it on the sweet spot (and then understood why I get frustrated), but when she does hit it high and straight, she enjoys the s*** out of it.

[BrettB97]

My wife loves that I have a hobby that doesn't involve bar hopping. We are recently married but were dating when I first fell in love with golf. Going on 2 years with this sport and she has only complained when it was necessary. She understands I need a hobby and time to myself. Has rode along twice now and enjoys the whole "getaway" feel you get at a golf course. Definitely a keeper. [/blatant brag]

If your girl doesn't like you playing its one thing but if she thinks its a "dealbreaker", you are better off without her. Women that cant accept a man having an honest outlet typically have bigger issues than your golfing habit. Just give it time till you find one that accepts you.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1375413292' post='7588258']
This is endless ..
There are two type of people in this thread ..
Selfish, negative about marriage and Kids , a lot has to do with their personal experience and others who are on the opposite end of spectrum with happy married life.
You will get biased information and should use your filter to take these opinions with a grain of salt and use in your case .
One thing is clear either way casual or serious partners, find the right person and you will be fine .
[/quote]

Not that simple.

Marriage is simply what it is. Same with raising kids. It is neither "good" nor "bad" intrinsically. Whether it is happy or not has more to do with what you bring to it; what you expect to get out of it...who you do it with; and what they expect to get out of it.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='BrettB97' timestamp='1375424196' post='7588950']
My wife loves that I have a hobby that doesn't involve bar hopping. We are recently married but were dating when I first fell in love with golf. Going on 2 years with this sport and she has only complained when it was necessary. She understands I need a hobby and time to myself. Has rode along twice now and enjoys the whole "getaway" feel you get at a golf course. Definitely a keeper. [/blatant brag]

If your girl doesn't like you playing its one thing but if she thinks its a "dealbreaker", you are better off without her. [i][b]Women that cant accept a man having an honest outlet typically have bigger issues than your golfing habit[/b][/i]. Just give it time till you find one that accepts you.
[/quote]

Ding....we have a winner.

[ctmason_98]

You couldn't get along with two women and so the relationships ended. You wanted to behave differently than they wanted you to behave. Golf had nothing to do with the relationships ending, and in truth never does (even Colin Montgomerie's divorce). Semantics can be great to argue for some people, but as many others have stated, don't over complicate things.

You either want a relationship with a person or not, and you are willing to change behavior in order to accommodate the relationship, or not. People have alluded to "never FEELING like sacrifice," etc. And that can be true.

You already know the answer to this, but if you believe you can continue the behavior you have described and have a successful intimate relationship you're kidding yourself. That has nothing to do with your value as a person. It just says what YOU value as a person. That's fine, and if you don't want an intimate relationship, more power to you, nobody but you is going to care.

[TJCDAS]

I would rather play around with my wife than play a round of golf!!!!!!!!!!!

[310+]

I play golf 5 times a week depending on weather. 3 rounds of 18 and 2 nine holes. I play early Saturday and Sunday. Home for 11am. This means I have rest of day for wife and kids. Weekdays I finish work at 1pm come home and take my boys golfing. We are home by time she gets outta work. She is agolf widow but doesnt complain as our boys are really into it aswell.

[_MS22_]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1375413292' post='7588258']
This is endless ..
There are two type of people in this thread ..
Selfish, negative about marriage and Kids , a lot has to do with their personal experience and others who are on the opposite end of spectrum with happy married life.
You will get biased information and should use your filter to take these opinions with a grain of salt and use in your case .
One thing is clear either way casual or serious partners, find the right person and you will be fine .
[/quote]

Kind of short sided IMO.

I gave the OP advice of doing what it is that makes him truly happy. Not what makes me happy, what makes him happy.

I'm a nearly-30 happily married guy. My wife rocks. As former NCAA athletes we understand having separate schedules and lives away from one another. All too often I see both men and women that try to force a relationship my ingraining one another into every single aspect of their lives. That is stupid. My friends do it all the time, and it fails all of the time as well. A healthy relationship is not based around devoting attention to one another 24-7.

There are times when we'll both be consumed with work and personal lives to the point of barely seeing one another for days at a time. We live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, and yet at times she'll be in bed by the time I'm home and then I'm up and gone by the time she's awake. Yet we function better than most every married couple I see.

The world is more than "selfish, self-absorbed, negative, anti-marriage and anti-kids people" and "devoted, honest, caring, positive" people.

Again I implore you OP: Do whatever it is that makes you truly happy. Don't get locked into some relationship because you are feeling the societal pressures of 'settling down' or any of that crap. And don't settle for some chick that mildly tolerates your personal devotion to your hobbies because once the ring is on and the kids come that'll change. Find a chick with her own real stuff going on more than watching re-runs of Sex in the City and reading People magazine talking to her friends about non-sense and you'll find someone that you can progress with. You need to find a like minded person however hard it may seem. Most females these days lives revolve around: mani-pedi, nutella cupcakes, gossip BS.....or in other words NOTHING of their own. Best of luck man!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1375447597' post='7589754']
You couldn't get along with two women and so the relationships ended. You wanted to behave differently than they wanted you to behave. Golf had nothing to do with the relationships ending, and in truth never does (even Colin Montgomerie's divorce). Semantics can be great to argue for some people, but as many others have stated, don't over complicate things.

You either want a relationship with a person or not, and you are willing to change behavior in order to accommodate the relationship, or not. People have alluded to "never FEELING like sacrifice," etc. And that can be true.

You already know the answer to this, but if you believe you can continue the behavior you have described and have a successful intimate relationship you're kidding yourself. That has nothing to do with your value as a person. It just says what YOU value as a person. That's fine, and if you don't want an intimate relationship, more power to you, nobody but you is going to care.
[/quote]

Not that cut and dried.

Every relationship is a unique thing....unless the OP is using golf as a way of distancing himself emotionally from the women he's involved with (and there isn't much to suggest that based on what he's told us)...then one cannot really say what his overal value system is with regards to relationships.

I know in my own case, I've had girlfriends who turned out to be so *****ly and difficult to get along with that I wound up spending little time with them. OTOH, I've had other women whom I was so well-matched with, that I spent most nights out of the week with them...and didn't feel like I was missing out on anything important.

If he'd rather be playing golf than spend time in a couple of relationships that clearly weren't very satisfying to him...no big deal.

Now if EVERY relationship, finds him wanting to turn his mate into a golf widow...then it may be time to look in a mirror.

[Pweb44]

[color="#000000"]This is a mixed bag and when it comes to mixing hobbies and relationships can be stressful on both sides but sometimes if you want to make it work then compromises need to take place on both sides for it to work otherwise it is best in the long run to go your own ways. Besides making compromises it also comes down to [b]RESPECT[/b] for your significant other and their feelings/needs; if you truly care for them then you must be prepared to makes changes to find a balance between your hobby/passion and the relationship. If you do not have enough respect for your woman to say maybe instead of hitting the range several times a week I could change one of the range nights into a movie night for us and maybe take a day on the weekend and skip a round to go do something together then it is not going to work in the end. The same goes for her, if she does not have enough respect for you understand the Northeast golf season has a smaller window of opportunity and that she may have to sacrifice some time together during the nice weather but know that when the cold weather arrives more time will be available to spend it with each other then it is not going to work in the end. It does help if both parties have hobbies or interests that they can do while the other is doing their thing knowing that once you are done golfing and she is done her thing then your time together is for each other. Respect and compromise is a two way street in a relationship and if either person is not ready to offer both then it is doomed to fail. [/color]

[color="#000000"]You’re still at an age where you want to spend a lot of your available time playing or working on your golf game which is fine and if that makes you happy then more power to you. Based on what you said, the fine weather months are dedicated to golfing and the cold weather months are Hockey (3-4 times a week I think you said) then you are still in the “I want to play” stage because you have the time to do those things. There are plenty of people on this site (myself included) that had been through that stage in life where they can play but once they met the right person they made the choice to give up some of the time dedicated to hobbies to develop a relationship that hopefully will last the rest of their lives. There are lots of people that have put the clubs down more once they started having a family but they know a time will come where the time required for your kids activities will lessen and you can go back to more time for your own interests. My brother-in-law and I had a conversation similar to this and I’ve always said golf is a single mans or retiree’s game cause once you have a relationship and/or family you have less time to golf. That is the beauty of golf; you can always come back to it when the right time allows you to do so.[/color]

[sosinsurr]

MS22,

See that's where I think relationships like ours work ok, being ex student-athletes.

I think both MS22 and I would agree that dating a collegiate athlete makes one aware of the schedules and time limitations. And if both are student-athletes, as in our case, both obviously have an understand of it fully. Especially when ones sport is in the fall and spring seasons, and the others is during winter. You literally always have someone in season.

[rafal]

1. Find a divorcee.
2. Don't marry her.
3. Enjoy all sex and golf you can handle.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1375497661' post='7595012']
1. Find a divorcee.
2. Don't marry her.
3. Enjoy all sex and golf you can handle.
[/quote]

You sir, are a genius.

[falken19150]

Depends on how hot she is. If the girl is stupid hot, then I don't have a problem letting the golf slide a little.