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Changing grips to change swing-weight


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I always thought 5 grams lighter or heavier would change the swing-weight by one point?

 

Swing-weight before with a 52 gram grip was D4.4 and then I put a 48 gram grip on there and it went down to D3.9 - shouldn't the swing weight have gone up?

 

I went from a Titleist tour velvet 360* to a Pure Pro if that helps.

 

I used to play NDMC at 47 grams to help cheat the weight up to where I wanted it but I am done paying $10 a grip. Pure Pro's @ $5.50 are more economical and last longer.

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I tried to go from NDMC's to those super lite Winn's when I tried some graphite iron shafts. The swingweights changed a little. How many wraps did you have under the grips? That adds weight too.

TaylorMade M3 9.5° w/ Tour Issue PX Handcrafted EvenFlow Black 65 6.5
TaylorMade SIM ROCKET 14.5° w/ PX Handcrafted EvenFlow Black 85 6.5
TaylorMade '08 Burner 5W 17.5° w/ p9003TX

TaylorMade '08 Burner Tour Only 7W 19° w/ Matrix RUL 80X
Srixon Z745 3-PW w/ Modus Nippon Modus Prototype ORA X (3I has an E11 Proto in Stiff)
Cleveland 588 RTX CB 52° w/ Nippon Modus Prototype C10 S
Srixon WG-706 56° w/ Nippon Modus Prototype C10 S
Scotty Cameron SS Newport Beach w/ UST Frequency Filter and Rosemark Thorn grip

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Are you using the standard size Pure Pro with a .600 core? Also what color is the Pure Pro? Pure has very tight tolerances on their weights of +/- 1 gram, but the standard weights will vary a few grams based on the color. For example the Orange Pro model is 47.48 grams while the White Pro model is 52.73 grams. If you've weighed both grips and those weights you listed are actuals then something weird is going on.

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I could write a twenty page post on this topic, I really could. Honestly, the way a SW scale measures is flawed for use with light grips. Really, It is flawed in general...

Read this, pay particular attention to the differences in measurement percentage when they change from the STD 14" Fulcrum to a 4" Fulcrum.
- [url="http://blog.hirekogolf.com/2010/02/tricking-the-swingweight-scale/"]http://blog.hirekogo...ngweight-scale/[/url]

With a 14" fulcrum point, the Moment measurement varied by 262g or 4.3%, while going from a 50g to 25g grip. However, with a 4" Fulcrum(Where your hands pivot during impact of a golf swing) - the Moment changed 12g or .1%

A SW scale is telling you that with your 48g grip if you were holding the club at 14" down from the butt of the club you would feel a D3.9, with your 52g grip you would feel a D4.4 holding it 14" from the butt of the club. Well, that's not where you hold it. It may make the head "Feel a bit heavier" but the club itself is lighter. You're basically fooling yourself. Lighter grips and heavier grips may make the club physically FEEL different while HOLDING it, but during the golf swing, You would be hard pressed to tell a difference because the weight of the grip is evenly distributed above and below the 4" fulcrum point of your hands. If you were to measure the difference of a 52g and 48g grip using a 4" fulcrum, it would be a difference of less than .001% - And I can assure you, you cannot feel that during impact.

A SW scale is only measuring the weight distribution throughout the club, based on a 14" fulcrum. Well, you don't hold a club there...
- Read my post in here, it further explains some things. It explains in detail how I can add 1500g to a club and the SW can go from C6 to C4, because of the flawed Fulcrum a SW scale uses.
- [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/874242-is-swing-weight-over-rated/page__st__30#entry7710904"]http://www.golfwrx.c...30#entry7710904[/url]

SW should be used only as a reference point, it does not mean "How the club feels while I'm swinging it", Period.

Edit: TL;DR Version - You should never use a lighter grip to achieve a specific SW. Never.

SLDR 460 8.5° / TEE XCG6 16.5°
2-PW '94 Ram FXTG / Rifle 7.0
Cally Jaws CC SW 55° / LW 60°
Arm Lock Ping Cushin / Salty Grip.
WITB Link

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[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377731717' post='7762095']
I could write a twenty page post on this topic, I really could. Honestly, the way a SW scale measures is flawed for use with light grips. Really, It is flawed in general...

Read this, pay particular attention to the differences in measurement percentage when they change from the STD 14" Fulcrum to a 4" Fulcrum.
- [url="http://blog.hirekogolf.com/2010/02/tricking-the-swingweight-scale/"]http://blog.hirekogo...ngweight-scale/[/url]

With a 14" fulcrum point, the Moment measurement varied by 262g or 4.3%, while going from a 50g to 25g grip. However, with a 4" Fulcrum(Where your hands pivot during impact of a golf swing) - the Moment changed 12g or .1%

A SW scale is telling you that with your 48g grip if you were holding the club at 14" down from the butt of the club you would feel a D3.9, with your 52g grip you would feel a D4.4 holding it 14" from the butt of the club. Well, that's not where you hold it. It may make the head "Feel a bit heavier" but the club itself is lighter. You're basically fooling yourself. Lighter grips and heavier grips may make the club physically FEEL different while HOLDING it, but during the golf swing, You would be hard pressed to tell a difference because the weight of the grip is evenly distributed above and below the 4" fulcrum point of your hands. If you were to measure the difference of a 52g and 48g grip using a 4" fulcrum, it would be a difference of less than .001% - And I can assure you, you cannot feel that during impact.

A SW scale is only measuring the weight distribution throughout the club, based on a 14" fulcrum. Well, you don't hold a club there...
- Read my post in here, it further explains some things. It explains in detail how I can add 1500g to a club and the SW can go from C6 to C4, because of the flawed Fulcrum a SW scale uses.
- [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/874242-is-swing-weight-over-rated/page__st__30#entry7710904"]http://www.golfwrx.c...30#entry7710904[/url]

SW should be used only as a reference point, it does not mean "How the club feels while I'm swinging it", Period.

Edit: TL;DR Version - You should never use a lighter grip to achieve a specific SW. Never.
[/quote]

+1

Changing the butt end weight does NOT change the MOI, therefore the weight of the grip is irrelevant. Use what you want.

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[quote name='Manz60' timestamp='1377739552' post='7762819']
The swingweight scale is a fulcrum based on gravity, measuring weight distribution. If you change the weight of the grip, the scale reading will change but since the grips weight is held in the hands, the change to the [u]heft of the clubhead [/u]is negligible.

M60
[/quote]
I like how this is worded more than my entire post. Simple, effective.

SLDR 460 8.5° / TEE XCG6 16.5°
2-PW '94 Ram FXTG / Rifle 7.0
Cally Jaws CC SW 55° / LW 60°
Arm Lock Ping Cushin / Salty Grip.
WITB Link

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[quote name='Froth' timestamp='1377731717' post='7762095']
I could write a twenty page post on this topic, I really could. Honestly, the way a SW scale measures is flawed for use with light grips. Really, It is flawed in general...

Read this, pay particular attention to the differences in measurement percentage when they change from the STD 14" Fulcrum to a 4" Fulcrum.
- [url="http://blog.hirekogolf.com/2010/02/tricking-the-swingweight-scale/"]http://blog.hirekogo...ngweight-scale/[/url]

With a 14" fulcrum point, the Moment measurement varied by 262g or 4.3%, while going from a 50g to 25g grip. However, with a 4" Fulcrum(Where your hands pivot during impact of a golf swing) - the Moment changed 12g or .1%

A SW scale is telling you that with your 48g grip if you were holding the club at 14" down from the butt of the club you would feel a D3.9, with your 52g grip you would feel a D4.4 holding it 14" from the butt of the club. Well, that's not where you hold it. It may make the head "Feel a bit heavier" but the club itself is lighter. You're basically fooling yourself. Lighter grips and heavier grips may make the club physically FEEL different while HOLDING it, but during the golf swing, You would be hard pressed to tell a difference because the weight of the grip is evenly distributed above and below the 4" fulcrum point of your hands. If you were to measure the difference of a 52g and 48g grip using a 4" fulcrum, it would be a difference of less than .001% - And I can assure you, you cannot feel that during impact.

A SW scale is only measuring the weight distribution throughout the club, based on a 14" fulcrum. Well, you don't hold a club there...
- Read my post in here, it further explains some things. It explains in detail how I can add 1500g to a club and the SW can go from C6 to C4, because of the flawed Fulcrum a SW scale uses.
- [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/874242-is-swing-weight-over-rated/page__st__30#entry7710904"]http://www.golfwrx.c...30#entry7710904[/url]

SW should be used only as a reference point, it does not mean "How the club feels while I'm swinging it", Period.

Edit: TL;DR Version - You should never use a lighter grip to achieve a specific SW. Never.
[/quote]

+1. SW, if it has meaning it should always be done with a 52g split grip regardless of the actual grip you are using. Changes at the grip end have no real meaning.

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When it's all said and done I want that little digital display to read D2 or D4 or whatever it is supposed to be. It's mental and golf is 90% mental. I can't have my 3 wood swing weight higher than my driver or my hybrid higher than my 3 wood or my 3 iron heavier than my PW etc.

I am using the Isle of Capri Pure Pro which has a published weight of 48.80 - I weighed all of the ones that I have and they were 49.3 - 49.5 so close enough but still 3 grams lighter than the Titleist tour velvets.

I regripped my 3 iron with the same grip and it did not alter the swing-weight. I use the same amount of solvent, same amount of tape. I keep all of the variables the same.

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We DONT do anything to Swing weight when going up or down in SW value by grip change, but we do change the feel of the club slightly, and it can best be described as the "Balance control" in a Stereo. When we add weight grip side, we raise the feel of total weight, and because we turned "volume" up at this end, it "sounds" lower in the other end, but the actual "volume" is unchanged head side. When we go down on grip weight below 50 grams, its like turning the volume down on this end of the club, and then you can "hear" the other side better, but volume is unchanged. Nothing is done to actual SW.

The over all feel of weight distribution of the club is important, so some players like more than 50 grams grip, a few like it below.

On my spec forms for clubs, SW is measured in 3 steps to clear any misunderstanding
- Complete club, without grip (Dry SW)
- Complete club with a split 50 gram OEM grip (True SW) - about 9 SW points below DRY
- Complete club as its going to be in play (Play SW) - could be any value, depending on grip weight and tape

We can only use 5 grams grip side = 1 SW point on the scale as a rule of thumb, because weight distribution on that grip influence. A grip like New Decade is "butt heavy" whit another rubber and cord on the upper end, making this 47.5 gram grip to measure just like a 50 grams Tour Velvet

Build up tape is 2 grams for each layer of tape
- New Decade standard build up to mid = 47.5 grams plus 8 grams tape = 55.5 grams
- New Decade MID size strait on = 58.5 grams

Influence from grip weight, is more important for TOTAL weight, than feel of balance, and to take this to the extreme, look at Jumbo Max grips who got a weight above 100 grams. On the SW scale you got a value who say, "head not present", but if you swing that club, it will NOT be the feel of head weight you notice, but the feel of more weight in your hand, and a raise of total weight.

Using grips to tune in a SW value, is not a good idea, its a bit backwards of the way it should be done, since weight distribution of the actual grips will interfere with the reading on the scale.

Find the clubs TRUE value, using a split OEM standard grip, because thats the value who influence on flex, THEN you can do what ever you like grip side, but without knowing the clubs actual TRUE SW value, we dont know what we are dealing with, like with one of my demo clubs who got a Jumbo max MID grip, reading C2.5 while True SW with a OEM grip is D3.

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Though I agree with the idea that changing grip weight won't change the feel but will trick the scale, my recent experience with them was different. I've always used TV .600 that average 49-50g. But I did cut my driver short, installed the same kind of grip. I weight all of them and do write down all the specs of my own clubs so I know it can't be tolerance issues. But immediately, the feel for the head became very difficult for me and had tons of issues trying to feel for my release point or timing it. So I tried those super light grips for the first time GP Tour 25. Weighed in at 25.9 vs the TV 49.9. And right away, though the club felt noticeably lighter overall, when swung, I was able to feel the head much better. Thought I can't explain why that is, the increased feel in sw was very noticeable.

Wishon 919THI 11*/ SF ss75
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JPX - 825H 19*, Fli Hi 22*
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Vokey SM4 50,54,60

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..you turned down "volume" from the speaker on grip side, and then you could her the speaker head side, but it still plays low, the actual SW has dropped, since you went down in club length without adding weight head side.

Normally we need more total weight when we go down in club length, so if both shorter and lighter was right for you, your starting point is strange, but .....whatever works....

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[quote name='ST7' timestamp='1377763075' post='7764065']
Though I agree with the idea that changing grip weight won't change the feel but will trick the scale, my recent experience with them was different. I've always used TV .600 that average 49-50g. But I did cut my driver short, installed the same kind of grip. I weight all of them and do write down all the specs of my own clubs so I know it can't be tolerance issues. But immediately, the feel for the head became very difficult for me and had tons of issues trying to feel for my release point or timing it. So I tried those super light grips for the first time GP Tour 25. Weighed in at 25.9 vs the TV 49.9. [b] And right away, though the club felt noticeably lighter overall, when swung, I was able to feel the head much better[/b]. Thought I can't explain why that is, the increased feel in sw was very noticeable.
[/quote]

In the past, I've found that weight changes (+/-10gm) at the grip end did not seem to affect a club in any meaningful way. Recently, however, I was experimenting with a light driver and found a [i]noticeable [/i]difference in the feel/balance of the club after installing a Winn Lite (25gm) grip . Needless to say, I was surprised. With the Winn Lite grip installed, the driver now weighed 30gm less and the swingweight, as expected, increased from C9 to D5. The most interesting thing, however, is that [b]the balance point of the club moved three inches closer to the clubhead![/b] Perhaps the change in balance point explains the difference in feel...

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