DIY Driver tune up / DIY fitting

[bag302]

This is such a great post.

I've actually found my length, weight and preferred driver SW, but I now reached a crossroad.

I bought 3 Supertri drivers 8.5,9.5,10.5 and various shafts and a weight kit. After a couple of years experimenting. I settled on a 44.5" setup with a RIP alpha 70s at a D5 SW. Very confident with this club and hit the sweetspot more often than not in the smiley face. I'm getting a 1.51 smash factor on trackman and supremely accurate on the course.

However, this combo is short for some reason - only going 220-230. I put in a RIP alpha 60r and immediately gained 20-30 yards. Same day. Same swing. GPS verified. Unfortunately, I lost all control.

I hit my 4 iron 200-205, so having a driver only go 220-230 is unacceptable to me. Conversely, the lack of control is unacceptable to me as well.

Not sure what to do at this point.

[Howard_Jones]

Do you have any LM reports playing those 2 clubs?
A lighter shaft might add some club speed, but sometimes its at the cost of impact spot, and then its useless other than the lucky ones, so if possible, start from your RIP 60, and add weight to the shaft until you get performance back. This IS a weight issue you are dealing with.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1405009910' post='9673853']
Do you have any LM reports playing those 2 clubs?
[/quote]

I'll second that. Really would help to determine if the distance loss was due to what combination of: 1) loss of club head speed, 2) ball speed (low smash), or 3) higher spin (ST's are a bit notorious for for high spin results).

Howard, did you notice shaft flex changed as well as weight? Unless there is a typo, it looks like he went from a rip 70 stiff to a rip 60 regular.

[bag302]

Thanks Howard. I will try adding weight to the 60g shaft as mentioned in your original post.

One thing I forgot to mention is I switched from a black Tour wrap grip to a white one on the RIP 60. The white grips are 7g heavier.

Should I still place the lead tape 14" from the butt end?

Thanks again.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='bag302' timestamp='1405010530' post='9673939']
Thanks Howard. I will try adding weight to the 60g shaft as mentioned in your original post.

One thing I forgot to mention is I switched from a black Tour wrap grip to a white one on the RIP 60. The white grips are 7g heavier.

Should I still place the lead tape 14" from the butt end?

Thanks again.
[/quote]

7 grams on the grip dont change anything other than total weight, but its on a spot of the club where those grams means nothing in performance matters.
Yes add weight 14" inch down from the butt to simulate a higher shaft weight and see if you are improving, and you might even want to go down on SW value (its VERY high if its measured with a 50 gram grip)

Dont forget that a SW scale cant see club length, so when a driver and a iron has the same value, its because the scale is stupid enough to think they had the same length, but since they dont, the scale actually returned a error.

If you play a #6 iron at 37.50" (standard), and a driver of 44 and D2 is good for irons, then D2 is NO GOOD in driver
Sub 2/3 Sw point for each 0.5 longer (44.00 minus 37.50 = 6.5 inch x 2/3 sw point = 4.3 SW point DOWN from D2 on your driver)
So if a #6 iron at D2 feel good, a driver with C7 2/3 SW point is the "matching" SW value on a driver.
Thats why i think you might have gone to far with head weight on your driver.

@Stuart
I did not notice the small r letter, but moving from S to R reduces swing aggressiveness, so it should be visible on a LM report, but it does not make sense here since he improved distance on the good ones, but got to many bad ones on the deal.
If he was to aggressive with the S flex, that club is the one who should have directional problems due to a variable impact spot, not the softer one who should provide more control and feedback in his swing (softer - less stress).

[bag302]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1405010360' post='9673913']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1405009910' post='9673853']
Do you have any LM reports playing those 2 clubs?
[/quote]

I'll second that. Really would help to determine if the distance loss was due to what combination of: 1) loss of club head speed, 2) ball speed (low smash), or 3) higher spin (ST's are a bit notorious for for high spin results).

Howard, did you notice shaft flex changed as well as weight? Unless there is a typo, it looks like he went from a rip 70 stiff to a rip 60 regular.
[/quote]

No typo. The RIP 70 is a stout shaft and I figured I wasn't loading it properly. Probably why my control was so good with it. In my casual searching, I could not find one a RIP70 in reg flex. So I bought a RIP 60 in regular flex.

I had the RIP 70 with an 8.5 head on a trackman not too long ago and the spin numbers were around 2,000 give or take. Ball speed around 142, ss around 94, LA 13-14*. I have an upward angle of attack.

I have no LM info on the 60r. Just better distance and unacceptable accuracy on the course. I got frustrated with it during a round and swung out of my shoes on one hole. Nutted it to 280, a distance I haven't seen in a loooong time.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1405016474' post='9674751']

@Stuart
I did not notice the small r letter, but moving from S to R reduces swing aggressiveness, so it should be visible on a LM report, but it does not make sense here since he improved distance on the good ones, but got to many bad ones on the deal.
If he was to aggressive with the S flex, that club is the one who should have directional problems due to a variable impact spot, not the softer one who should provide more control and feedback in his swing (softer - less stress).
[/quote]

Didnt' make sense to me either which is why I was interested in hearing your evaluation of problem and didn't directly steer the 'solution' away from the weight issues. I was thinking if it might be worth it for the OP to try a heavier head weight with the lighter shaft if the control problem is related to keeping the club on plane but you have more experience in this area than I do.

[quote name='bag302' timestamp='1405020267' post='9675219']
No typo. The RIP 70 is a stout shaft and I figured I wasn't loading it properly. Probably why my control was so good with it.
[/quote]

In reality, loading properly or not is just a perception with no reality to it - although a perception that can cause actual swing changes. It could be causing you to slow down the swing in general (giving up on trying to load it) - which gives you better control and the loss of distance. Another possibility is that it can result in the player actually trying to force the perceived loading - causing more tension and loss of club head speed - although that usually also has a detrimental effect on accuracy as well.

And it could also be the weight differences that is effecting control - the lead tape experiment will help determine if that is part of the issue.

[bwrichmond]

Thanks for posting this Howard. I stumbled onto it today and I think there's some great information in here. Thanks again!

[portland]

Great info here. Thank you

[Howard_Jones]

ive made a few updates to Post #1, because i thought it would be to bad to leave you with "rules of thumbs" in important matters like Length and Lie angles for irons and wedges (and hybrids where lie is adjustable)

Plus fitting parameter #2 Shaft WEIGHT
How to actually simulate the shaft weight and balance difference between the options we think of ?
- Like Wedges from S200 wedge flex to S400 ?
How much is the NET shaft weight difference (any wedge lengths), and WHERE on our club do we add it to "simulate" S400?

or maybe we want to simulate Wedge flex to X100 #8 iron shaft?
...or "My driver is 46" long with a 60 grams un-cuts weight shaft. "How would my club feel like at 44.00" with a 70 grams shaft?"

The weight charts for shafts can also be used for estimations of Total weight, by adding head, grip, ferrule, epoxy and tape, and they can be used for "reversed engineering", where we want to estimate uncut weight of a shaft we have at hand. Its all in there, how to make the fitting at home, with NO advanced tools needed, and you will make it better on your own, then most big box store you can visit.

As always feel free to ask any questions :-)

[Stuart_G]

No idea what the process is - but if any thread should be made sticky - this one certainly should be.

I've certainly lost count of how many times I (and others) have provided a link to it to answer the various questions that show up.

[Jonesy]

I think I'm reading the graph wrong, I want to shorten my 60gram 45" driver shaft to 44.5" playing like a 60gram shaft, if I'm reading the chart correctly do I have to make up 4.2 grams to achieve this? Please excuse my ignorance it's been a long day in the office.... Thanks for all the info Howard!

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Jonesy' timestamp='1429193707' post='11372673']
I think I'm reading the graph wrong, I want to shorten my 60gram 45" driver shaft to 44.5" playing like a 60gram shaft, if I'm reading the chart correctly do I have to make up 4.2 grams to achieve this? Please excuse my ignorance it's been a long day in the office.... Thanks for all the info Howard!
[/quote]

60 gram to 60 gram?
At 45 Play length, NET shaft weight is 56.5 grams, and as 44.50 NET shaft weight is 55.8 grams
A 60 grams uncut at 46.00 raw is 1.30 grams pr inch, and you cut of 0.5 inch = 0.65-0.70 grams

[Jonesy]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1429203280' post='11374045']
[quote name='Jonesy' timestamp='1429193707' post='11372673']
I think I'm reading the graph wrong, I want to shorten my 60gram 45" driver shaft to 44.5" playing like a 60gram shaft, if I'm reading the chart correctly do I have to make up 4.2 grams to achieve this? Please excuse my ignorance it's been a long day in the office.... Thanks for all the info Howard!
[/quote]

60 gram to 60 gram?
At 45 Play length, NET shaft weight is 56.5 grams, and as 44.50 NET shaft weight is 55.8 grams
A 60 grams uncut at 46.00 raw is 1.30 grams pr inch, and you cut of 0.5 inch = 0.65-0.70 grams
[/quote]

Thanks Howard, I thought I was confusing myself to no end!

[Wooderson]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1429185896' post='11371717']
No idea what the process is - but if any thread should be made sticky - this one certainly should be.

I've certainly lost count of how many times I (and others) have provided a link to it to answer the various questions that show up.
[/quote]

I agree. A fantastic post.

[Wooderson]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1429185896' post='11371717']
No idea what the process is - but if any thread should be made sticky - this one certainly should be.

I've certainly lost count of how many times I (and others) have provided a link to it to answer the various questions that show up.
[/quote]

I agree. A fantastic post.

[nikuk]

I've loved this thread ever since I first saw it a couple years ago. Now with the April 2015 update -wow it is even more incredibly useful.

Thank you very very much for your efforts Howard. insight like this Is why I come to this website.

[3 putt Charlie]

Is there a chart that shows BBGM measurements for a variety of driver heads? I assume 1.5" is standard, but how do we know without pulling the head?
Thanks-Charlie

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='3 putt Charlie' timestamp='1430748358' post='11494689']
Is there a chart that shows BBGM measurements for a variety of driver heads? I assume 1.5" is standard, but how do we know without pulling the head?
Thanks-Charlie
[/quote]

Good question, but there is no way to know without pulling the shaft, unless someone did that before you and you can take advantage of what they found by asking on this board. A BBGM of 1.5" seems to be the most common for todays drivers, but it wary a lot on woods and hybrids.

[teamacacia]

Okay, I just want to be sure I'm doing this right...
My current driver is the original TM R11 with 60gm blur shaft. Per specs, it is 45.75" in length. That would give a cut shaft weight of 57.5 with BP 22 3/16 from the butt end.
I would like to try 44" driver with 70gm shaft. Per the chart that would give me 64.2 gm shaft cut weight with BP 21 5/16.
I would then need to put 6.7 gm weight (64.2-57.5) at 23 5/16" from the butt of the shaft (not the grip).

I also have a 60gm Rombax that is same length that I'd like to test as well. I guess the changes would all be the same here as above?

[Howard_Jones]

The latest fitting trends out there is about sets with other length progression than the classic 0.5", and when a player won a round at the PGA tour with a single length iron set it became "fire in the hole".....

 

Tom Wishon has for years advocated sets using 3/8" instead of the classic sets with 4/8". This turns out to be a good solution not only to improve "the length issue", but also to make sets with better balance matching than the classic SW matched sets. Not everyone has the money needed to buy a Digital MOI scale so use of progressive Swing weighting has become a new trend for DIY builds.

 

Many players is very conservative, they have been playing "Constant weight" shaft for years, so they dont consider going Descending weight, but if the player fits to play a Low launch option in the 115 - 120 grams as Uncut Constant Weight, we do have a option overlooked in Descending weight.

 

if we take advantage of DG Sub flex (S200,S300,S400), vi can start out from a set sorted to Ascending weight uncut, to tighten up the weight difference on Net. shaft weight. Depending on what BASE shafts we mix, and what play length progression we choose, we can make a set where weight tolerance is just as good as Dynamic Gold Taper tip in Constant weight, in some cases even just as good as DG Tour Issue who has a tolerance of plus minus 0.5 grams.

 

When we work with parallel tip shafts, we can also tweak flex as we like, we can even make a "Flighted" flex slope to tweak feel and flight in the long, and make sure it keeps down in the low by a tad more tipping progressively.

 

To make it easy for the user, ive made a Excel sheet with 3 pages, where you start it all from your preferred "Base iron" of your own choice (#6 - #7 or #8). Play length progression options is 4/8 - 3/8 - 2/8 - 1/8 - Single length, and you can choose a different length slope for wedges than irons. Progressive SW is automatically calculated vs chosen length progression for IRONS, while the user is free to use another SW progression for wedges. Auto calk of the #8 iron spinner trick for SW and LW included.

 

The purpose of the file is to help out with shaft weight matching, and tip trim to get to your target FCM flex as standard slope of 4.0 or any slope between 4.1 and 5.75 CPM (Flighted) pr. 0.5" club length as you like

 

Further instructions for use on the page READ ME in the file.

it can be used for all steel shafts who respond with 1 CPM for each 1/8, and who uses 0.5" inch as standard tip trim progression on 0.5" sets, but it was designed for DG parallell iron shafts.

 

You can download the excel file from this link

https://www.dropbox.... calc.xlsx?dl=0

 

Here is a screenshot of user interface with #8 iron Base.

RED fields is input, all others is return numbers, the BLUE the most important to watch when we "play around" with numbers.

Here is a example of a hole set 4-LW with a weight match BETTER than DG Tour issue, so there is no reason to hold back, if you play DG and wants to go down about 10 grams in shaft weight, this might be the shafts you overlooked.

The sheets is made to handle all clubs from #1 to LW of your choice.

 

 

[Gwrxace04]

Here is a DIY for Putter balance

 

Counterweight

- Take a "stack of coins" and use tape to fix it to the grip end of the shaft - Test any thing from 30 to 100 grams. Here is how to find out how much weight needed.

 

Take a letter sheet, and align the longest side against your target

- Address the ball on the side close to you, on target line side of the letter sheet.

Now your putter will be half on, half off the sheet at address.

- When you start your take away, pay attention to how the head "moves" out from address:

 

A Blade putter shall move in a slight arc, going off the paper on your side

A Mallet putter shall move in a almost strait line, following the edge of the letter sheet.

 

Here is how its should look when Balance is correct

 

 

On both types of putter, if the head starts by moving IN over the paper, ADD weight grip side.

Test and add weight until its to much, and go down again, to tweak it right.

The need for the letter sheet, is to boost contrast so even small wobbels is visible for your eye.

 

Here is how it would look like, when you need more weight Grip side

 

 

It does not matter if you at the end, use a grip with that extra weight, or if you add it by using lead tape below the grip

Lead tape gives about 25 grams on 1 layer in spiral pattern, filling the same as 1 layer of build up, so if the need is 100 grams, add 4 layers of lead tape as if it was 4 layers of build up.

 

You can also use a insert weight, and even make that insert weight yourself, by using a machine bolt, and tape. Just build it up until it fits the inside of the shaft. Last layer, use grip tape and solvent, so it sticks to the inside of the shaft

 

PUTTER LIE ANGLE

For this task you need a helper who shall stand in front of you as if he was the target (3-4 YARDS)

When the player takes his stance and address the ball, the helper shall LOOK on the putter head.

 

Most, but far from all putters have a FLAT top line, and for the helper its VERY VISIBLE if lie angle is not right for the player. The putter heads top line will tell if lie angle shall be adjusted upright or more flat.

 

 

 

Adjust, look again, and do this until its visible that the putter has a neutral lie angle when the putter head is in address position where the players head is correct over the ball.

 

This is the way i do this, i never use any of the tools ive got for this task, because they cant compete with the accuracy you get from a visual judgement like above. Ive got 3 different Mitchell static fitting tools for putters, but they want get you closer than 1* degree of whats right, butt 1 off is NO GOOD, so just save your time and money and do it without

 

Good luck !

 

Howard-

 

Howard- Nice post on putter fitting.

Do you find that the weight distribution of the putter can cause a loop in the swinging of the putter?

I have always had a bit of an "over the top" loop in my putting stroke and wondered if by getting the weight distribution correct would help minimize this or correct it.

 

Overall, I'm a good putter but have to focus on and make a conscious effort on making sure that my putter face is moving down the ball-target line. If my concentration wavers, I hit pulls or blocks as a result of the "over the top" loop in the putting motion.

 

Any experience with this?

[Howard_Jones]

Here is a DIY for Putter balance

 

Counterweight

- Take a "stack of coins" and use tape to fix it to the grip end of the shaft - Test any thing from 30 to 100 grams. Here is how to find out how much weight needed.

 

Take a letter sheet, and align the longest side against your target

- Address the ball on the side close to you, on target line side of the letter sheet.

Now your putter will be half on, half off the sheet at address.

- When you start your take away, pay attention to how the head "moves" out from address:

 

A Blade putter shall move in a slight arc, going off the paper on your side

A Mallet putter shall move in a almost strait line, following the edge of the letter sheet.

 

Here is how its should look when Balance is correct

 

 

On both types of putter, if the head starts by moving IN over the paper, ADD weight grip side.

Test and add weight until its to much, and go down again, to tweak it right.

The need for the letter sheet, is to boost contrast so even small wobbels is visible for your eye.

 

Here is how it would look like, when you need more weight Grip side

 

 

It does not matter if you at the end, use a grip with that extra weight, or if you add it by using lead tape below the grip

Lead tape gives about 25 grams on 1 layer in spiral pattern, filling the same as 1 layer of build up, so if the need is 100 grams, add 4 layers of lead tape as if it was 4 layers of build up.

 

You can also use a insert weight, and even make that insert weight yourself, by using a machine bolt, and tape. Just build it up until it fits the inside of the shaft. Last layer, use grip tape and solvent, so it sticks to the inside of the shaft

 

PUTTER LIE ANGLE

For this task you need a helper who shall stand in front of you as if he was the target (3-4 YARDS)

When the player takes his stance and address the ball, the helper shall LOOK on the putter head.

 

Most, but far from all putters have a FLAT top line, and for the helper its VERY VISIBLE if lie angle is not right for the player. The putter heads top line will tell if lie angle shall be adjusted upright or more flat.

 

 

 

Adjust, look again, and do this until its visible that the putter has a neutral lie angle when the putter head is in address position where the players head is correct over the ball.

 

This is the way i do this, i never use any of the tools ive got for this task, because they cant compete with the accuracy you get from a visual judgement like above. Ive got 3 different Mitchell static fitting tools for putters, but they want get you closer than 1* degree of whats right, butt 1 off is NO GOOD, so just save your time and money and do it without

 

Good luck !

 

Howard-

 

Howard- Nice post on putter fitting.

Do you find that the weight distribution of the putter can cause a loop in the swinging of the putter?

I have always had a bit of an "over the top" loop in my putting stroke and wondered if by getting the weight distribution correct would help minimize this or correct it.

 

Overall, I'm a good putter but have to focus on and make a conscious effort on making sure that my putter face is moving down the ball-target line. If my concentration wavers, I hit pulls or blocks as a result of the "over the top" loop in the putting motion.

 

Any experience with this?

 

Im not sure if i understand you correct when you say "loop" but maybe its what i call 8 numbers (like the head is drawing the number 8), and yes, a Counterweight helps out with that. Weight in your hands on a putter make the head feel lighter even if we did not remove any weight from it, and it slows down your hands both ways in the stoke so the head can follow as it should. i feel stupid since i did not make a video of how it works since its all visible to a person looking at you putting. if you miss weight grip side, your hands will move to fast (the top of the putter moves to fast), so the head will be hanging after and thats visible on the players wrists, they break in a angle and the players respond would be to "hit the ball " in his attempt to get the head forward.

 

That means putter fitting should be done with a helper who can see how your wrists works during the stroke, but the "letter sheet test" can be done by yourself and will lead to the same. if the head is to heavy compared to the grip side, your putter head will not move as it should, and that makes it way harder to impact the ball in the sweet spot on return. When balance and lie angle is right for you, then you will make it, and you will notice a way better distance control who is important on long puts to be able to get in on 2 if you miss the first. No club in the bag is as important as your putter so give it the attention it deserves.

[300_Straight]

This is a fantastic thread! Thanks for making this. I am going to use impact tape tonight to see exactly where my Driver strikes are. I'm pretty sure I've been hitting slightly off the heel. I shortened my Driver to 44.75" and my misses have definitely been better (previously 45.25"). I will try this to hone in my correct length even more :)

[Gwrxace04]

Howard- You are correct in that my loop is what you call "8" number. Thanks for clarifying this about adding weight on the grip end.

[Howard_Jones]

A small update in post #1 in this tread with a DIY Club length ruler included convertion chart between imperial and metric for European users

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/909991-diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/#entry7861381

[is76550]

A small update in post #1 in this tread with a DIY Club length ruler included convertion chart between imperial and metric for European users

http://www.golfwrx.c...g/#entry7861381

 

Really appreciate you posting this, I am becoming more and more intrigued by MOI matching and being that no one within 100 miles has heard of it I will be reading up on a lot of your and Tom Wishon's posts.

 

Thanks again!

[teamacacia]

A small update in post #1 in this tread with a DIY Club length ruler included convertion chart between imperial and metric for European users

http://www.golfwrx.c...g/#entry7861381

 

Really appreciate you posting this, I am becoming more and more intrigued by MOI matching and being that no one within 100 miles has heard of it I will be reading up on a lot of your and Tom Wishon's posts.

 

Thanks again!

 

I agree, Isaac. I have searched high and low, but the closest opportunity to me is probably an 8 hour drive away. I may have to look at finding the equipment to do it myself...

[ChaosTheory]

When adding lead tape to a shaft to test for the need for a heavier shaft, I do not think it should be added at 14" to keep the swingweight the same. I think it should be added at the balance point of the cut shaft, or even better, spread along both sides of that point, from butt to tip. That is a better representation of where the weight will be in the heavier shaft.

[Howard_Jones]

When adding lead tape to a shaft to test for the need for a heavier shaft, I do not think it should be added at 14" to keep the swingweight the same. I think it should be added at the balance point of the cut shaft, or even better, spread along both sides of that point, from butt to tip. That is a better representation of where the weight will be in the heavier shaft.

 

i dont suggest adding weight at 14" so who was your comment ment for?

If you go to post #1 you will find both a chart, and the way to to the math to find the shafts balance point, thats the correct place to add weight, its no reasons to spread it out, why would you want to do that? If the more heavy shaft version has the same balance point as the shaft you use for testing all added weight would end up at the balance point, so thats the place to add it.