Why Hogan's swing was so great.

[MonteScheinblum]

I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

 

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

 

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

 

That is my 2 cents.

[Shaggie]

I would say it was his hands not his arms
You would have to say that the hands start and finish the swing

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1380682243' post='7940749']
I would say it was his hands not his arms
You would have to say that the hands start and finish the swing
[/quote]

This is the problem. People use the hands too much. Especially in transition.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1380682243' post='7940749']
I would say it was his hands not his arms
You would have to say that the hands start and finish the swing
[/quote]

87 posts, is that you Lane?

[Hoganstriker]

I agree in transition with what Monte said oh yeah and Hogan also said. Also in my opinion theres a cult saying its FOREarm rotation. Nothing further from the truth in my opinion re Hogan its ARM rotation to get there the way he did. Forearms are weak compared to shoulders.

[Shaggie]

not lane holt here but i like his attitude and ideas
he or i is not on here to drum up business
just talk about golf and making it easier

[TheBoomer]

Popcorn out and ready !!!!!

[capt.murphy]

I have to agree with Monte. his transition is the real show. everything else is icing.

[bilbry57]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Monte.

Read somewhere about externally rotating R shoulder in Transition. Can you explain rotating arms inward in transition

Thanks

[dpb5031]

Why was Hogan's swing so great?

Dynamic efficiency, balance, and an unparalleled aesthetic combination of grace with power.

All brought about by natural talent, determination, curiousity, and thousands of hours of digging it out of the dirt.

...cool stuff!

[Darth Leverage]

Check out Monte's lead with the elbow vid

I do think Hogan is put on a pedestal. Don't get me wrong the man earned the ball striking equivilant of a grand master in Kung fu, but most of us mere mortals without the time to dedicate to the quest are better off trying to find their own swing.

Would there have been so much worshipping if the great man hadn't uttered the immortal words "I have a secret". Cue decades of searching for instant fix moves that will instantly lead to golfing nirvana. Marketing mans dream.

For me the real magic is in hogans transition, he gets the shaft 90 degrees to his spine which allows him to power through hard. This gets the shaft pointing directly just below his belly button at impact, right at his chi core. Chi core = centre of the body's gravity. Makes an awfull lot of sense to turn the club at a right angle to the spine around our c.o.g no?

Just my two cents

[nova6868]

[quote name='bilbry57' timestamp='1380718199' post='7941659']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Monte.

Read somewhere about externally rotating R shoulder in Transition. Can you explain rotating arms inward in transition

Thanks
[/quote]

I have the same question.

[lumberman2462]

The best synchronization of arms and body of any player in history.

The most amazing thing to me is how good his leg action was even after his accident.

The video of Hogan playing in Shell's Wonderful World of Golf in the late 1960s when he was 15 years removed from his prime is amazing.

If putts only counted 1/2 a stroke he could have won well into the 1970s.

[vjswing]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1380720498' post='7941815']
The video of Hogan playing in Shell's Wonderful World of Golf in the late 1960s when he was 15 years removed from his prime is amazing.

If putts only counted 1/2 a stroke he could have won well into the 1970s.
[/quote]

Here's a link to that SWWoG appearance...great stuff!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUjYhF8A8ss"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUjYhF8A8ss[/url]

[lumberman2462]

Yep. 7000 yards. Hits first 12 greens and finally makes a birdie.

Very interesting to see how many of those greens he was hitting with a fairway wood.

I'm guessing he was mid 50s by then?

[Darth Leverage]

Scale up with modern distance averages that course would be well over 8000 yards

[bogeypro]

I think the cult like following around this place for Hogan's swing is completely laughable.


flame suit on

[MadGolfer76]

Not a knock on Hogan, but I would rather watch Faxon putt.

[dodger]

Pretty interesting that in 2013 we are still breaking down Hogan's swing as if it holds a key for the rest of us. Probably why handicaps have not dropped despite science, technology... Hogan did not hit every green, was not a terrible putter according to those who played with him in the forties and fifties, and copying his swing has led more golfers to ruin than to greatness. The following is what we can take from Hogan. First, he approached golf in a single minded obsession that as he indicated was designed to make money and survive. Second, he was without question the best dressed golfer ever, he always looked like a professional. Finally, he knew he could be more successful with his mouth shut than open, which is a skill most of us never learn. One should never underestimate what a great athlete he was either. To play like he did after having massive orthopedic injuries is proof of extreme athleticism. The grip change, pronation and whatever else anyone talks about swingwise is fluff. He was a great golfer, one of the three best of all time. He would have won more if not hurt. However his swing holds no secret or key for the rest of us anymore than Nicklaus, Woods, Nelson, Snead or Jones. Take a great athlete, tell them to figure out a way to get a ball in the hole, throw in hunger and desire, and you can get a pretty good golfer. I have seen Monte Scheinblum hit golf balls on video. I appreciate he knows a ton of technique and is a great instructor. But, his talent comes from his being an athlete. He looks different. I played golf a couple times with a NFL hall of famer. He has a really strong grip because he has a bad hand from playing football. He does not hit driver because he cannot get it airborne. But, he shoots in the seventies and hits a four iron 250 yards. He is an athlete. All those of us who have never played a sport well and think we are going to learn some technique from video of a golfer fifteen years dead and be a two handicap are chasing a unicorn.We will never be a better golfer than our athleticism allows, regardless of technique, instruction, effort...

[mshills]

[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1380723184' post='7942017']
I think the cult like following around this place for Hogan's swing is completely laughable.


flame suit on
[/quote]

Agree 100%. It was a great swing for Ben Hogan. If you are not Ben Hogan, it is not advisable to try to swing like Ben Hogan. The worst is when someone who struggles with losing the ball right tries to emulate Hogan's swing. That is not going to work if your natural miss is to the right (unless of course you are a lefty ***grin***).

IBTL. I'm afraid that "Hogan's Humpers" are going to come out of the sub-forum and this will eventually get locked.

[Paul E]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

This post is akin to walking into a kitchen with a leaky gas stove with matches in your hand. This isn't going to end well.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1380728047' post='7942349']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

This post is akin to walking into a kitchen with a leaky gas stove with matches in your hand. This isn't going to end well.
[/quote]

I'd say more like walking into a crack house and telling everyone to put down the pipe. 50/50 on whether they listen, or kill me.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380729717' post='7942487']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1380728047' post='7942349']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

This post is akin to walking into a kitchen with a leaky gas stove with matches in your hand. This isn't going to end well.
[/quote]

I'd say more like walking into a crack house and telling everyone to put down the pipe. 50/50 on whether they listen, or kill me.
[/quote]
Possibly the best wrx analogy ever.....

[Paul E]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380729717' post='7942487']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1380728047' post='7942349']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

This post is akin to walking into a kitchen with a leaky gas stove with matches in your hand. This isn't going to end well.
[/quote]

I'd say more like walking into a crack house and telling everyone to put down the pipe. 50/50 on whether they listen, or kill me.
[/quote]

Since we're talking Hogan, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. This has never been revealed before. Hogan's real surname was Heisenberg. It was changed because it wasn't playing well in Texas back in the day.

Now.

Say, My. Name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKrCs1rFRI

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='mshills' timestamp='1380726048' post='7942239']
[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1380723184' post='7942017']
I think the cult like following around this place for Hogan's swing is completely laughable.


flame suit on
[/quote]

Agree 100%. It was a great swing for Ben Hogan. If you are not Ben Hogan, it is not advisable to try to swing like Ben Hogan. The worst is when someone who struggles with losing the ball right tries to emulate Hogan's swing. That is not going to work if your natural miss is to the right (unless of course you are a lefty ***grin***).

IBTL. I'm afraid that "Hogan's Humpers" are going to come out of the sub-forum and this will eventually get locked.
[/quote]

Just going to play devil's advocate for a second. If someone had a "natural miss" to the right, all we are talking is about the fact that the geometry of their swing produces impact conditions that cause the physics of a right shot. The geometry of hogan's swing didn't produce a right miss so clearly the physics he was producing were great. Anyone who produces that geometry will hit great shots regardless of what their "natural miss" is.

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Care to explain what you mean by both arms rotating inward during transition. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying but having a hard time picturing how both arms can rotate inward during transition. I am seeing external rotation of the right shoulder and SLIGHT internal rotation of the left but not "inward" of both.

[Shaggie]

can the forearms rotate without rotating the hands?
I cant do it
every time i rotate my hands the forearms go along fo the ride
That is just me
some people are built different

[kellygreen]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1380681555' post='7940701']
I find most of the discussion about the greatness of his swing...unimportant to the rest of us.

The one issue that is relevant to all of us getting better is this.

Both his arms rotated inward perfectly in the transition and downswing and connected the rotation of the club to his turn. The rest is just technical nonsense and minutia.

That is my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Hogan swung the club in a fashion so that he timing and rotation of his arms was controlled by the rotation of his body...and so that the club was square-to-nearly-square to his clubpath until deep into his followthrough.

As a result, very few independantly moving-parts that could get out of sync.

[Shaggie]

i disagree i think his clubface was square fore a small instant of time. but trackman proves that the clubface does not have to be perfectly on target to hit a good shot

Do you know Hogans answer to what club he hit 150 yards?

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='Shaggie' timestamp='1380738568' post='7943211']
i disagree i think his clubface was square fore a small instant of time. but trackman proves that the clubface does not have to be perfectly on target to hit a good shot

Do you know Hogans answer to what club he hit 150 yards?
[/quote]

KG said square to club path. Club would only be square to the target for a microsecond.