Why Hogan's swing was so great.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1380824636' post='7948333']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380823616' post='7948235']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1380821760' post='7948097']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380819116' post='7947831']
[quote name='JBOMB808' timestamp='1380816730' post='7947645']
Ok, a discussion is good. I can tell you why Dufner's elbow isn't connected. It's because his address position is far enough away that if it did connect, he wouldn't reach the ball, but if you really want to see another concept of a "connected-core swing"...
[url="http://www.pgatour.com/content/dam/pgatour/blog/2012/08/swing11.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/original"]http://www.pgatour.c...itions/original[/url]

This is probably the most golden advice- the most accurate strikers have a [i]constantly rotating body[/i] through impact and it's not just a coincidence. If the body stalls, the club will release to all sorts of angles.

After impact, the player can do whatever they want, but through impact is where the magic happens.
[/quote]
Again, static images do no good in analyzing this stuff. Furyk does a very good job of timing and linking his swing. He in no way presses his arms against his body, of all people.

[media=]http://youtube.com/watch?v=cTuTrpWCZhU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcTuTrpWCZhU[/media]
[/quote]

I dunno if I'd put it that way. Furyk gets his right arm more behind him than probably anyone below a 5 handicap, sort of a stay stuck and turn swing. You can keep it pretty stable that way, distance will be an issue, and better not fire those arms or 16 tee at Olympic happens.
[/quote]
The point I am making is that even Furyk, as close as his arms are, is not using a physical connection Of pressing his arms against his body to propel his arms.
[/quote]

You sure about that? If you don't think his body isn't influencing his arm movement at all then well......nvm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuUX_eOC7JU
[/quote]
Am I in the twilight zone here??? Never said his body has no influence on his arms. All this started when the suggestion was made that hogan, Mahan, and others literally pressed the arms against the body to create a connection. Examples were of duffner and furyk were put forth so I posted videos showing the arms clearly NOT pressed against the body and moving independently, yet in sync, with the pivot.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1380824353' post='7948311']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380818582' post='7947791']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1380816999' post='7947671']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380816635' post='7947629']
Apples and oranges again KG, classic. All of that is correct, except the fact that none of it relates to the fact that hunter said his INTENT, not "swing key", is to fire his arms as fast as he can. It is not a matter of who makes the best pizza. It's a matter of I say, "I go to John's pizza shop"..... And you say, "we'll maybe the guy who owns that shop isn't really named John. So you are not correct." I get it though, you don't want a back and forth, so lets agree to disagree.
[/quote]

Like I said.

Rational debate becomes pointless.

It is not "apples and oranges". It is the central point here. Regardless of what Mahan's intentions are, biomechanics and anatomy don't ALLOW him to do it. Because the human body doesn't WORK that way. The degree of connection that he maintains between his arms and torso eliminates the necessary degrees of freedom where arm motion is concerned.

Like the old Maine joke, [i]"You can't get there from here." [/i]

The anatomy doens't allow Mahan to actually USE his arms (objectively) in the manner he feels that he is doing (subjectively).

Someone like Fred Couples or Charl Schwartzel? The subjective and objective line up, because they swing in a fashion that allows the right arm a lot more freedom of motion until fairly late in the swing.

Again...the failure to distinguish between the objective and the subjective is why these discussions turn into swamps, and a lot of personal animosity.
[/quote]

Not sure where you are seeing the personal attacks and animosity. When you first stated you felt attacked I apologized. Not sure if you still feel attacked, but I apologize if you do. A lot of times when someone disagrees with a deep emotional belief you posses, it can feel like an attack, that is not my intent.

This discussion started when you stated that Hunter controls the rotation of his arms with his pivot. I stated that that was not possible.
The arms have to do something to keep from being left behind like noodles. Please explain how someone can use completely limp dead arms and control them with a pivot. If you are contesting that the arms are physically pressed against the body and are turned due to that physical connection, then let's just go ahead and agree to disagree. Again, I am not attacking you, and I have no animosity, it's just a discussion.
[/quote]

You have a habit of salting your comments with snarky parentheticals. Perhaps you are not aware that you are doing it....

The arms aren't "left behind like noodles". because of [i][b]unconscious muscle activity[/b][/i]. Even if the muscles are not being used to actively and consciously propel the club, they still are active in providing support, stability, and keeping control of a object that moving in excess of 100mph.


[/quote]
So when Hunter says "I fire my arms as fast as I can", you consider that unconscious muscle activity? Before you stated that he just didn't know what he was doing, his feel was not real. You are kind of painting towards a corner right now. First it was the arms do nothing, then it was a pga player who says he fires his arms isn't really firing his arms, now it is that the arms are active, just not consciously...... Even if a player says he is firing his arms.

[4thand11]

[quote]

It's a pretty weird phenomenon isn't it? The Hogan obsession is like a security blanket for a lot of people, and they try to copy 'perfect.'. It's easier to think "well I'm working on what Hogan did so I'm headed the right direction" rather than playing in tournaments or big money games, totally blowing it, and realizing I have to figure out how to get this ball to go where I want it to go with my own ability.

Pick any one of the best ballstrikers and they all went about it their own way. The obsession with just one guy is really confusing.
[/quote]

Fair enough BUT the reasons for the "Hogan obsession" as you call it are because a)he wrote an instruction book that is fantastic and has probably been read by more golfers than any other and - b)he had one of the most gracefully powerful and aesthetically pleasing swings in history, and as such is a likely candidate for people to want to copy.

The reason people try to copy Hogan (or any pro for that matter) is because what they are doing does not APPEAR difficult, thereby does not appear difficult to copy. The problem is that for many it is often much more difficult than it appears.

Even in Five Lessons Hogan describes his swing as a relatively simple act that anyone of average athleticism can perform. Of course it may have been simple for HIM, but it leads to the natural tendency to look for the secret you are overlooking that will unlock the simplicity he talks about.

[bogeypro]

this is like listening to two nerds fighting over which protractor is better.

You guys are arguing over symantecs, which is why you are here and Hunter is on the tour. he just does what he "thinks" he is doing and doesn't worry about what is actually happens. Give it a rest, it is a pointless arugument anyway.....

[JBOMB808]

Most overlooked Hogan swing. The Original 9-3 drill.
http://youtu.be/6ZgYRS5gCvo?t=17s

[bogeypro]

[quote name='4thand11' timestamp='1380826867' post='7948495']
[quote]

It's a pretty weird phenomenon isn't it? The Hogan obsession is like a security blanket for a lot of people, and they try to copy 'perfect.'. It's easier to think "well I'm working on what Hogan did so I'm headed the right direction" rather than playing in tournaments or big money games, totally blowing it, and realizing I have to figure out how to get this ball to go where I want it to go with my own ability.

Pick any one of the best ballstrikers and they all went about it their own way. The obsession with just one guy is really confusing.
[/quote]

Fair enough BUT the reasons for the "Hogan obsession" as you call it are because a)he wrote an instruction book that is fantastic and has probably been read by more golfers than any other and - b)he had one of the most gracefully powerful and aesthetically pleasing swings in history, and as such is a likely candidate for people to want to copy.

The reason people try to copy Hogan (or any pro for that matter) is because what they are doing does not APPEAR difficult, thereby does not appear difficult to copy. The problem is that for many it is often much more difficult than it appears.

Even in Five Lessons Hogan describes his swing as a relatively simple act that anyone of average athleticism can perform. Of course it may have been simple for HIM, but it leads to the natural tendency to look for the secret you are overlooking that will unlock the simplicity he talks about.
[/quote]

i would bet that most people think Fred Couples swing is more gracefull, but you don't see hoards of followers trying to swing like freddy. Ben swung the way that was best for him - not for the masses. Which is why not every pro in the world is trying to copy his swing. You can take parts of it, but not all of it.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380825759' post='7948417']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1380824353' post='7948311']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380818582' post='7947791']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1380816999' post='7947671']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1380816635' post='7947629']
Apples and oranges again KG, classic. All of that is correct, except the fact that none of it relates to the fact that hunter said his INTENT, not "swing key", is to fire his arms as fast as he can. It is not a matter of who makes the best pizza. It's a matter of I say, "I go to John's pizza shop"..... And you say, "we'll maybe the guy who owns that shop isn't really named John. So you are not correct." I get it though, you don't want a back and forth, so lets agree to disagree.
[/quote]

Like I said.

Rational debate becomes pointless.

It is not "apples and oranges". It is the central point here. Regardless of what Mahan's intentions are, biomechanics and anatomy don't ALLOW him to do it. Because the human body doesn't WORK that way. The degree of connection that he maintains between his arms and torso eliminates the necessary degrees of freedom where arm motion is concerned.

Like the old Maine joke, [i]"You can't get there from here." [/i]

The anatomy doens't allow Mahan to actually USE his arms (objectively) in the manner he feels that he is doing (subjectively).

Someone like Fred Couples or Charl Schwartzel? The subjective and objective line up, because they swing in a fashion that allows the right arm a lot more freedom of motion until fairly late in the swing.

Again...the failure to distinguish between the objective and the subjective is why these discussions turn into swamps, and a lot of personal animosity.
[/quote]

Not sure where you are seeing the personal attacks and animosity. When you first stated you felt attacked I apologized. Not sure if you still feel attacked, but I apologize if you do. A lot of times when someone disagrees with a deep emotional belief you posses, it can feel like an attack, that is not my intent.

This discussion started when you stated that Hunter controls the rotation of his arms with his pivot. I stated that that was not possible.
The arms have to do something to keep from being left behind like noodles. Please explain how someone can use completely limp dead arms and control them with a pivot. If you are contesting that the arms are physically pressed against the body and are turned due to that physical connection, then let's just go ahead and agree to disagree. Again, I am not attacking you, and I have no animosity, it's just a discussion.
[/quote]

You have a habit of salting your comments with snarky parentheticals. Perhaps you are not aware that you are doing it....

The arms aren't "left behind like noodles". because of [i][b]unconscious muscle activity[/b][/i]. Even if the muscles are not being used to actively and consciously propel the club, they still are active in providing support, stability, and keeping control of a object that moving in excess of 100mph.


[/quote]
So when Hunter says "I fire my arms as fast as I can", you consider that unconscious muscle activity? Before you stated that he just didn't know what he was doing, his feel was not real. You are kind of painting towards a corner right now. First it was the arms do nothing, then it was a pga player who says he fires his arms isn't really firing his arms, now it is that the arms are active, just not consciously...... Even if a player says he is firing his arms.
[/quote]

I'm saying that he is perceiving muscle activity that is taking place in the body core as originating in his arms.

There is reason why "Feel isn't Real."

...and why getting into knockdown-drag-out fights over people's swing feels and swing keys is a waste of time. Because I can get 6 guys to make the same motion...and they'll describe how it feels and how they are doing it in 6 different ways.

[BrooklynGolfer]

The real point is...yes, Hogan's swing was great. Tiger's swing is/was great, so was Fred Couples and pretty much every other PGA player in the past 50 years....That's how they got on tour.
I think people need to realize that we (amateurs) need to, as Arnold Palmer said, 'swing your own swing'. We all have little quirks in our swing, we all have different bodies, injuries that we have to work around, etc, so our swing will naturally differ from anyone elses.
Should we try to imitate/copy Hogan's or anyone else's swing? In my opinion NO.
BUT having said that, observing and watching any PGA players swing can help. Practice and ingraining a consistant swing is the key. You may be able to take a little from Hogan, a little 'Tiger move' and combine it into a swing that works for you and makes you better. But trying to imitate someone's swing outright is never going to work.
There's my 2 cents

[gators78]

[quote name='4thand11' timestamp='1380826867' post='7948495']
[quote]

It's a pretty weird phenomenon isn't it? The Hogan obsession is like a security blanket for a lot of people, and they try to copy 'perfect.'. It's easier to think "well I'm working on what Hogan did so I'm headed the right direction" rather than playing in tournaments or big money games, totally blowing it, and realizing I have to figure out how to get this ball to go where I want it to go with my own ability.

Pick any one of the best ballstrikers and they all went about it their own way. The obsession with just one guy is really confusing.
[/quote]

Fair enough BUT the reasons for the "Hogan obsession" as you call it are because a)he wrote an instruction book that is fantastic and has probably been read by more golfers than any other and - b)he had one of the most gracefully powerful and aesthetically pleasing swings in history, and as such is a likely candidate for people to want to copy.

The reason people try to copy Hogan (or any pro for that matter) is because what they are doing does not APPEAR difficult, thereby does not appear difficult to copy. The problem is that for many it is often much more difficult than it appears.

Even in Five Lessons Hogan describes his swing as a relatively simple act that anyone of average athleticism can perform. Of course it may have been simple for HIM, but it leads to the natural tendency to look for the secret you are overlooking that will unlock the simplicity he talks about.
[/quote]

Hogan was a phenomenal ballstriker in his day. His book was wildly popular.

But go to any college event now, or mini tour event, and you'll see everybody has gotten smart. Nobody tries to make their athletic ability fit Hogan's model (or any specific model). They let their athletic ability dictate how they should swing. No offense to Hogan, but Bubba Watson could run laps around him in a ballstriking contest, that's what happens when you have unbridled otherworldly talent, a nuclear imagination, and the fastest hands in the sport. The list keeps going. Rickie didn't try to change his sling release. Keegan didn't adjust his sway. Jordan Spieth didn't change his grip or quasi chicken wing. Patrick Reed jumps all over the place with his driver swing. Tommy Gainey's grip. Stricker's zero wrist hinge. Furyk's entire move. Dustin Johnson's bowed wrist. I could go on and on.

There isn't a problem when people want to get better and have a few things they need to work on. Or look to an instruction book for inspiration. But to think Hogan put in some mystical secret that will make a swing automatic and free of flaw or hiccup if you copy these few moves is basically a great marketing tool. Last I checked they don't give you any trophies for trying to copy Hogan.

[bmellisen]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1380831030' post='7948809']
[quote name='4thand11' timestamp='1380826867' post='7948495']
[quote]

It's a pretty weird phenomenon isn't it? The Hogan obsession is like a security blanket for a lot of people, and they try to copy 'perfect.'. It's easier to think "well I'm working on what Hogan did so I'm headed the right direction" rather than playing in tournaments or big money games, totally blowing it, and realizing I have to figure out how to get this ball to go where I want it to go with my own ability.

Pick any one of the best ballstrikers and they all went about it their own way. The obsession with just one guy is really confusing.
[/quote]

Fair enough BUT the reasons for the "Hogan obsession" as you call it are because a)he wrote an instruction book that is fantastic and has probably been read by more golfers than any other and - b)he had one of the most gracefully powerful and aesthetically pleasing swings in history, and as such is a likely candidate for people to want to copy.

The reason people try to copy Hogan (or any pro for that matter) is because what they are doing does not APPEAR difficult, thereby does not appear difficult to copy. The problem is that for many it is often much more difficult than it appears.

Even in Five Lessons Hogan describes his swing as a relatively simple act that anyone of average athleticism can perform. Of course it may have been simple for HIM, but it leads to the natural tendency to look for the secret you are overlooking that will unlock the simplicity he talks about.
[/quote]

Hogan was a phenomenal ballstriker in his day. His book was wildly popular.

But go to any college event now, or mini tour event, and you'll see everybody has gotten smart. Nobody tries to make their athletic ability fit Hogan's model (or any specific model). They let their athletic ability dictate how they should swing. No offense to Hogan, but Bubba Watson could run laps around him in a ballstriking contest, that's what happens when you have unbridled otherworldly talent, a nuclear imagination, and the fastest hands in the sport. The list keeps going. Rickie didn't try to change his sling release. Keegan didn't adjust his sway. Jordan Spieth didn't change his grip or quasi chicken wing. Patrick Reed jumps all over the place with his driver swing. Tommy Gainey's grip. Stricker's zero wrist hinge. Furyk's entire move. Dustin Johnson's bowed wrist. I could go on and on.

There isn't a problem when people want to get better and have a few things they need to work on. Or look to an instruction book for inspiration. But to think Hogan put in some mystical secret that will make a swing automatic and free of flaw or hiccup if you copy these few moves is basically a great marketing tool. Last I checked they don't give you any trophies for trying to copy Hogan.
[/quote]

After a pretty extensive Google search, I do not believe there is a trophy for trying to copy Ben Hogan.

[notsohard]

.......................and they all lived happily ever after.

[MonteScheinblum]

LOL@bmellison

Well played sir.

[Shaggie]

he was a great ball striker because of the first sentence ot the 1954 article he talked about something a scottish pro had told him about rolling his hands back then rolilng them through.Please Google hogans secret 1954 Life magazine
I know saying hands and feel is subject to suspension on Golfwrx
But darn it I am a rebel and live life on the edge so go ahead and suspend me again

[ALIF]

I have no interest in copying Hogan's of anyone else's swing. I just want to get the little white (sometimes yellow or pink) ball into the hole in as few strokes as possible. I wouldn't mind crushing a drive 350 with a regular driver though like Monte:)

[Jobu]

[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380829939' post='7948741']
The real point is...yes, Hogan's swing was great. Tiger's swing is/was great, so was Fred Couples and pretty much every other PGA player in the past 50 years....That's how they got on tour.
[/quote]

No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.

[wmblake2000]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380865362' post='7951091']

No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.
[/quote]

I remember reading somewhere years ago when some aspiring pro played a round with Hogan and was feeling pretty good. So he asked Hogan if Hogan thought he could make it on the tour. Hogan told him 'no you're not long enough.' The kid said 'but I was hitting it as far as you.' Hogan said, 'I was only swinging 80% but you were going after it full bore.' The author's point was Hogan didn't swing 100%.

[Jobu]

[quote name='wmblake2000' timestamp='1380869165' post='7951165']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380865362' post='7951091']
No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.
[/quote]

I remember reading somewhere years ago when some aspiring pro played a round with Hogan and was feeling pretty good. So he asked Hogan if Hogan thought he could make it on the tour. Hogan told him 'no you're not long enough.' The kid said 'but I was hitting it as far as you.' Hogan said, 'I was only swinging 80% but you were going after it full bore.' The author's point was Hogan didn't swing 100%.
[/quote]

My point was an 80% swing looks a lot different than a 100% swing for most golfers. To me it's quite obvious Hogan hit tee shots as hard as he could without disrupting his mechanics.

[gators78]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380865362' post='7951091']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380829939' post='7948741']
The real point is...yes, Hogan's swing was great. Tiger's swing is/was great, so was Fred Couples and pretty much every other PGA player in the past 50 years....That's how they got on tour.
[/quote]

No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.
[/quote]

coughHoganmysticismbull****cough

[BrooklynGolfer]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380865362' post='7951091']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380829939' post='7948741']
The real point is...yes, Hogan's swing was great. Tiger's swing is/was great, so was Fred Couples and pretty much every other PGA player in the past 50 years....That's how they got on tour.
[/quote]

No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.
[/quote]

Incorrect. Hogan's swing hasn't been replicated because it can't be replicated...It's HOGAN'S Swing. We all swing differently.
For example...If I have a loop at the top of my swing a la Furyk, as long as it's there every time and I can make a consistently good shot that goes where I want it to, who cares whether it's 'sequenced properly'. If it works, it works.
The point is, do what works for you, by trying little things from each person. You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.

[Jobu]

[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']


You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.

[BrooklynGolfer]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]

golf is not baseball.

[Jobu]

[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902703' post='7952485']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]

golf is not baseball.
[/quote]

you're right, a golf ball isn't moving.

[BrooklynGolfer]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902897' post='7952495']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902703' post='7952485']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]

golf is not baseball.
[/quote]

you're right, a golf ball isn't moving.
[/quote]

Sorry, I should have explained further. A baseball bat is round, you can hit the ball with any surface of the bat, so if my forearems over rotate, then I can still hit the ball pretty well. It doesn't have to be perfect. With a golf club, you have to hit the ball with the clubface, in the exact same spot that you line up to. if you do not hit it with the face of the club, well, you know the result.
Also, baseball is not a 'target' sport, so accuracy of where you hit the ball is not all important, so you can go 100% without having to worry is it going to land on target. If you try to hit a homer and end up with a double, you're not that disappointed. If I try to hit the green and end up in the bunker next to the green, I'm not going to be happy with it.

Finally, if it was as easy as it was to copy a baseball swing, I'm sure more people would be swinging like Hogan.

[4thand11]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1380831030' post='7948809']
[quote name='4thand11' timestamp='1380826867' post='7948495']
[quote]

It's a pretty weird phenomenon isn't it? The Hogan obsession is like a security blanket for a lot of people, and they try to copy 'perfect.'. It's easier to think "well I'm working on what Hogan did so I'm headed the right direction" rather than playing in tournaments or big money games, totally blowing it, and realizing I have to figure out how to get this ball to go where I want it to go with my own ability.

Pick any one of the best ballstrikers and they all went about it their own way. The obsession with just one guy is really confusing.
[/quote]

Fair enough BUT the reasons for the "Hogan obsession" as you call it are because a)he wrote an instruction book that is fantastic and has probably been read by more golfers than any other and - b)he had one of the most gracefully powerful and aesthetically pleasing swings in history, and as such is a likely candidate for people to want to copy.

The reason people try to copy Hogan (or any pro for that matter) is because what they are doing does not APPEAR difficult, thereby does not appear difficult to copy. The problem is that for many it is often much more difficult than it appears.

Even in Five Lessons Hogan describes his swing as a relatively simple act that anyone of average athleticism can perform. Of course it may have been simple for HIM, but it leads to the natural tendency to look for the secret you are overlooking that will unlock the simplicity he talks about.
[/quote]

Hogan was a phenomenal ballstriker in his day. His book was wildly popular.

But go to any college event now, or mini tour event, and you'll see everybody has gotten smart. Nobody tries to make their athletic ability fit Hogan's model (or any specific model). They let their athletic ability dictate how they should swing. No offense to Hogan, but Bubba Watson could run laps around him in a ballstriking contest, that's what happens when you have unbridled otherworldly talent, a nuclear imagination, and the fastest hands in the sport. The list keeps going. Rickie didn't try to change his sling release. Keegan didn't adjust his sway. Jordan Spieth didn't change his grip or quasi chicken wing. Patrick Reed jumps all over the place with his driver swing. Tommy Gainey's grip. Stricker's zero wrist hinge. Furyk's entire move. Dustin Johnson's bowed wrist. I could go on and on.

There isn't a problem when people want to get better and have a few things they need to work on. Or look to an instruction book for inspiration. But to think Hogan put in some mystical secret that will make a swing automatic and free of flaw or hiccup if you copy these few moves is basically a great marketing tool. Last I checked they don't give you any trophies for trying to copy Hogan.
[/quote]

Look everyone who reads a book or watches a Youtube video or takes lessons is in a sense looking to copy something. If you go see Slicefixer or any other top pro, you are hoping to copy his very effective method of delivering the club to the ball. People travel from across the country to go see SF. What are they doing if not looking for the "secret"? Why would it be OK to try and copy one particular teaching pro's swing, and not Hogan's?

I do agree that the Hogan myth gets overblown probably because of his interesting life story and the stoic, workaholic way he went about his business. Hogan did not give the impression of being a naturally gifted athlete who was just born with the gift to swing a golf club. He struggled and had to work for it. This naturally appeals to the average struggling golfer out there, who is out beating balls trying to figure it out... they may see Hogan as a kindred spirit if you will. His swing LOOKS like something an average golfer could do if they just master exactly what it is he was doing.

A guy like Bubba Watson on the other hand just seems like someone born with the freakish ability to hit a golf ball. Very few will look to him as a model to emulate because it's obvious after watching him that most of us wouldn't be able to do it.

[JBOMB808]

Seeing an instructor will let you know what is wrong. As will videoing your swing and posting on here for feedback. An instructor can provide "hands-on" attention which is nice. Some people are Do-it-yourselfers which puts the power of change in their own hands. Learning from Hogan is no crime and building a good repeatable swing based on his principles is very possible. Look at MSE, BHSP, Sevam1, and Slicefixer. A lot of current concepts are based off of Hogan because of 5L so in a sense teachers use a derivative of his material. Hogan's swing was so great because it is legend. We must remember that everyone can and will chime in with their own special move and perhaps that's what Hogan intended. He laid the groundwork for everyone to invent and interpret their own "secret."

[bogeypro]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]


Baseball swing is NOT like a golf swing. Baseball swing pivots more on the back foot. Stance is wider in baseball. Release is baseball is much much later than in golf swing. Footwork is different in basebasll swing.

Watch this:
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqXFv-cYgg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqXFv-cYgg[/url]

[AndyC]

[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1380919228' post='7953609']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]


Baseball swing is NOT like a golf swing. Baseball swing pivots more on the back foot. Stance is wider in baseball. Release is baseball is much much later than in golf swing. Footwork is different in basebasll swing.

Watch this:
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqXFv-cYgg"]https://www.youtube....h?v=GIqXFv-cYgg[/url]
[/quote]

I would say that there are far more similarities than differences.

Read this: http://www.stevewozeniak.com/2007/11/golf-just-another-sport-using-a-stick/


Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-zgA0x-q0

[Huntster]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380865362' post='7951091']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380829939' post='7948741']
The real point is...yes, Hogan's swing was great. Tiger's swing is/was great, so was Fred Couples and pretty much every other PGA player in the past 50 years....That's how they got on tour.
[/quote]

No one on tour today had to swing as hard as Hogan did in his day. There are a lot of bad swing sequences on tour because modern equipment allows these guys to swing easy. That's why his swing hasn't been replicated; he's going 100%. Most pros would look like hacks if they swung more than 80%. That's why you see so many "chokers" when adrenaline kicks in.
[/quote]

I don't know about that, at least on tee shots it seems that most pros are swinging 100%.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='bogeypro' timestamp='1380919228' post='7953609']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1380902372' post='7952467']
[quote name='BrooklynGolfer' timestamp='1380902035' post='7952443']
You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.
[/quote]

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.
[/quote]


Baseball swing is NOT like a golf swing. Baseball swing pivots more on the back foot. Stance is wider in baseball. Release is baseball is much much later than in golf swing. Footwork is different in basebasll swing.

Watch this:
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIqXFv-cYgg"]https://www.youtube....h?v=GIqXFv-cYgg[/url]
[/quote]

The differences between a baseball swing and a one-plane golf swing are due to the fact that a baseball hitter is trying to hit a ball that is moving through the air....and a golfer is hitting a ball sitting on the ground.

Other than that, they have more in common with one another than they have differences.

OTOH, there are LOTS of differences between a baseball swing and a two-plane golf swing. The two-plane swing has more in common with a baseball throwing motion, than it does with swing a baseball bat.

[bogeypro]

You should not be trying to 100% replicate a pro's swing, it will not work.

 

It works in baseball and Hogan had a baseball swing.

 

 

Baseball swing is NOT like a golf swing. Baseball swing pivots more on the back foot. Stance is wider in baseball. Release is baseball is much much later than in golf swing. Footwork is different in basebasll swing.

 

Watch this:

 

I would say that there are far more similarities than differences.

 

Read this: http://www.stevewoze...-using-a-stick/

 

 

Watch this:

 

The only similarities between golf and baseball is the sequencing. The guy in the video is wrong. If someone hit the ball like he says, they will have no power and will be slow. Not to mention, they will never hit an inside pitch. The weight never moves over the left side like golf. the angle between trailing arm and bat is held much longer in baseball with release being much later. Right palm is facing the sky at impact in baseball. Elbows don't point down. Baseball players always struggle with high right push slices for this reason.

 

see these impact positions: