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[quote name='Dillinger' timestamp='1384668528' post='8160852']
Callaway is killing it this year or actually technically
2014. The Apex & Apex Pro are something very special
and anything they would give the Big Bertha name to will be special.
Can't wait to see the BB.
[/quote]
While it it appears to be promising, it is a little early to say what you said. Until one can see the club in their hands, address the ball and actually hit the clubs to see what happens when the balls are struck. I don't know how any one can declare winners on just hearing about a name and listening to those who clearly have an agenda being connected to that company. This goes for any club and any company. Over the years I have awaited for something in great anticipation only to find that it didn't work for me in play!! This happens a lot. While some of this will be a positive, there likely will be at least as many disappointed especially for the clubs unseen.

In the bag: Playing --- SIM TaylorMade driver w/Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S. 3wd TM SIM (set @ 16*) with Fuji Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7S. 5 wd TM SIM w/Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X (set @18.5*). HyBrids-Cleveland Hi-Bore #1 (16* plays like 2-Iron) W/Fuji-S.,  SIM Max #4 (set @ 21.5* w/ Fuji Atmos HB Black Tour Spec 9S,  Irons TM M-3 4i bent to 5i, loft TM P760 6-9,PW all w/Fuji Pro 95i-S. SW Cleveland RTX-4 52/10 bent to-to 53/11* w/Dynamic Gold TOUR Issue S-400, LW- TM Hi-Toe 58 Modified-grind bent to 59* w/Dynamic Gold S, Putter-- BOBBY GRACE Night&Day-Custom, M.Coz-Bandsaw Prototype. Ball TaylorMade 2021 TP5.
 Alternates in the Hybrids and TM M-1,4-i depending on what part of the country, course, climate, and conditions.
 

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[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

I'm not totally convinced of what you are saying there, though I understand the principal of your argument. However, where I disagree is that market forces will dictate, that if the dead stock situation does occur, then retailers will simply learn from that, and not order so much of that stock next time around. My Pro, who is quite a large account holder in my area, has at least 30 SLDR Drivers sat on his shop floor from the 2013 season, gathering dust. He recognizes the mistake he has made, and has admitted to me that he will not be ordering as much TM Equipment as last year. It shouldn't mean that retailers go out of business if they simply adjust their stock levels the following season. As for retailers wanting to sell Ping/Titleist equipment, I'm not so sure about that, because they just want to sell equipment that gives them the best profits, regardless of manufacturer.

The flooding of the market from 1 or 2 OEM's is just the way its going, and retailers will simply learn to adjust their order values to account for the dangers of having dead stock. It will be the OEM's loss, not necessarily the retailers, and certainly not the regular Golfers like us, its a great deal for us imo.

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[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.

Callaway Mavrik SZ 9.0 VA Composites Nemesys 65 04
Callaway Mavrik SZ 15 VA Composites Nemesys 75 04
Callaway Mavrik Pro Hybrid 18* Veylix Rome 888 S
Callaway 2019 Apex Pro DOT 4-PW Mits MMT 125 TX/ Vega Mizar Tour Oban CT 115 X
Odyssey WHP #3-Stability Tour, Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2.5, Toulon Long Island Garage-Stability Shaft
Callaway MD5 Jaws Tour Grey 50/54/58 and  Cobra Tour Versatile 50/54/58 Mitsubishi MMT 125TX Graphite
Lamkin Sonar Plus Wrap


WITB Link

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[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1384697508' post='8161532']
[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.
[/quote]

Although that sucks for retailers/fitters its sure nice for holding value
Expecially for HO's around here when u buy a Titleist or PING product, u know the value will still be there in 6 mnths when u dump it
As a guy who has bought and tried everything, and lost my a$$ on most of it, its nice to get some back

But what do i know ..... My whole bag doesnt have one current model in it! Lol!
I get what your saying tho .... And like i said from a retail standpoint, its tough

Titleist TSi3 9.0 | Tensei AV White RAW 65 X
Taylormade M2 15 | RIP Alpha B 70 X
Callaway XHP 21 | RIP Alpha 90 X
Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW | TI DGX100 ssx1
Callaway MD3 RAW 52S / 56W | DGS300
Callaway MD4 RAW 60W | DGS400
Scotty Cameron Special Select FB 5.5 35"

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[quote name='enis750' timestamp='1384698234' post='8161568']
[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1384697508' post='8161532']
[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.
[/quote]

Although that sucks for retailers/fitters its sure nice for holding value
Expecially for HO's around here when u buy a Titleist or PING product, u know the value will still be there in 6 mnths when u dump it
As a guy who has bought and tried everything, and lost my a$$ on most of it, its nice to get some back

But what do i know ..... My whole bag doesnt have one current model in it! Lol!
I get what your saying tho .... And like i said from a retail standpoint, its tough
[/quote]

That is extremely true. Ping and Titleist will hold its value better. It lends credence to my point about the market 'flooders', that there equipment plummets in value very quickly, but at least it gives the consumer a choice. Go with the new stuff from Titleist/Ping if we want to keep second hand values at bearable levels. Or if we want to go for the Callaway/TM gear, wait for 4 months, when the prices/offers will have plummeted etc. It makes no sense to buy the latest and greatest Callaway/TM equipment at full price, but then again, as I said, 'a fool and his money are easily parted'. The Callaway range is undoubtedly strong, but just that 4 month wait will give the Consumer that more buying power and our $$$'s go so much further. If I want Ping/Titleist, I would have no qualms about pre-ordering any of their equipment, but if I want Cally/TM I'll wait for a few months, until May/June, to get better prices. Nice to have that choice.

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[quote name='ZJohnson' timestamp='1384536345' post='8153754']
Holy s***. Holy s***. Holy s***. Callaway has broken the mold with this one boys. I can't post pics or say much, but my goodness. Two drivers, the one Phil hit and was going nuts over is going to revolutionize the industry. I am as giddy as a little school girl. :o
[/quote]

Definitely agree. Thinking out of the box and everything looks amazing

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[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1384706067' post='8162000']
[quote name='enis750' timestamp='1384698234' post='8161568']
[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1384697508' post='8161532']
[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.
[/quote]

Although that sucks for retailers/fitters its sure nice for holding value
Expecially for HO's around here when u buy a Titleist or PING product, u know the value will still be there in 6 mnths when u dump it
As a guy who has bought and tried everything, and lost my a$$ on most of it, its nice to get some back

But what do i know ..... My whole bag doesnt have one current model in it! Lol!
I get what your saying tho .... And like i said from a retail standpoint, its tough
[/quote]

That is extremely true. Ping and Titleist will hold its value better. It lends credence to my point about the market 'flooders', that there equipment plummets in value very quickly, but at least it gives the consumer a choice. Go with the new stuff from Titleist/Ping if we want to keep second hand values at bearable levels. Or if we want to go for the Callaway/TM gear, wait for 4 months, when the prices/offers will have plummeted etc. It makes no sense to buy the latest and greatest Callaway/TM equipment at full price, but then again, as I said, 'a fool and his money are easily parted'. The Callaway range is undoubtedly strong, but just that 4 month wait will give the Consumer that more buying power and our $$$'s go so much further. If I want Ping/Titleist, I would have no qualms about pre-ordering any of their equipment, but if I want Cally/TM I'll wait for a few months, until May/June, to get better prices. Nice to have that choice.
[/quote]

I have never thought about this approach specifically (buying ping/titleist new and waiting a little for cally/tmag), but it makes perfect sense.

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[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1384712878' post='8162414']
Loved the old school BB and hope this new version is as good. Hope they also go back to the old BB feel/sound rather than the RFE.
[/quote]

There was nothing that felt/sounded better than when you would nut a balata ball with a old BB driver!!!!

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[quote name='sbjinx' timestamp='1384712878' post='8162414']
Loved the old school BB and hope this new version is as good. Hope they also go back to the old BB feel/sound rather than the RFE.
[/quote]

I actually like the sound of the RFE better than pretty much any other driver on the market.

It reminds me of a persimmon driver like I used to use 20 years ago.

I added a few grams of hotmelt too :)

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[quote name='enis750' timestamp='1384698234' post='8161568']
[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1384697508' post='8161532']
[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]

Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.
[/quote]

Although that sucks for retailers/fitters its sure nice for holding value
Expecially for HO's around here when u buy a Titleist or PING product, u know the value will still be there in 6 mnths when u dump it
As a guy who has bought and tried everything, and lost my a$$ on most of it, its nice to get some back

But what do i know ..... My whole bag doesnt have one current model in it! Lol!
I get what your saying tho .... And like i said from a retail standpoint, its tough
[/quote]
Its a little hard to say a club "holds" it value because it cannot be discounted if it doesn't sell. A 2yr old model $399 driver or a 2yr old set of irons with the same $899 price tag on it that isn't selling does not retain those values if they don't sell.

In the bag: Playing --- SIM TaylorMade driver w/Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S. 3wd TM SIM (set @ 16*) with Fuji Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7S. 5 wd TM SIM w/Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X (set @18.5*). HyBrids-Cleveland Hi-Bore #1 (16* plays like 2-Iron) W/Fuji-S.,  SIM Max #4 (set @ 21.5* w/ Fuji Atmos HB Black Tour Spec 9S,  Irons TM M-3 4i bent to 5i, loft TM P760 6-9,PW all w/Fuji Pro 95i-S. SW Cleveland RTX-4 52/10 bent to-to 53/11* w/Dynamic Gold TOUR Issue S-400, LW- TM Hi-Toe 58 Modified-grind bent to 59* w/Dynamic Gold S, Putter-- BOBBY GRACE Night&Day-Custom, M.Coz-Bandsaw Prototype. Ball TaylorMade 2021 TP5.
 Alternates in the Hybrids and TM M-1,4-i depending on what part of the country, course, climate, and conditions.
 

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[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1384715700' post='8162596']
[quote name='enis750' timestamp='1384698234' post='8161568']
[quote name='Dscvrr St Louis' timestamp='1384697508' post='8161532']
[quote name='Rustynuts' timestamp='1384671379' post='8160964']
Callaway and tm are systematically trying to run retailers broke, too many releases leaves too much dead stock. For consumers it's great but ask most sales people and they would rather sell titleist or ping equipment.
[/quote]



Working retail, I would beg to differ. At least the diveristy in the Callaway and TM lines allow me to fit more handicap levels more consisely...I cannot do that in Titleist and to an extent Ping..and I still have the entire G15 series on the wall and rack from Ping...two series removed from the current model G25. Outside of the Razr X NG release..I only have this years Callaway on the floor. Titleist I still have 712 irons and 910 woods.

I am not concerned with the number of releases if it makes sense in their lineup strategy...I hate having new product from 3 years ago on the wall that I cannot discount in any way to help move it. Titleist, Ping, and Mizuno are all in that category, they all opt out on our coupon program and thus I cannot work with the customer.
[/quote]

Although that sucks for retailers/fitters its sure nice for holding value
Expecially for HO's around here when u buy a Titleist or PING product, u know the value will still be there in 6 mnths when u dump it
As a guy who has bought and tried everything, and lost my a$$ on most of it, its nice to get some back

But what do i know ..... My whole bag doesnt have one current model in it! Lol!
I get what your saying tho .... And like i said from a retail standpoint, its tough
[/quote]
Its a little hard to say a club "holds" it value because it cannot be discounted if it doesn't sell. A 2yr old model $399 driver or a 2yr old set of irons with the same $899 price tag on it that isn't selling does not retain those values if they don't sell.
[/quote]

Understand where you're coming from, when it comes to stock hanging around on shop floors. But, I think in this case, the poster was referring to second hand retail values. But your argument is perfectly valid for new stock gathering dust on retailers shop floors, and I think that will make some of the savvy retailers from ordering too much stock in the first place. This will affect the OEM's, that want to saturate the market, more than the OEM's that aren't into that policy. But you can't argue the large market share that TMAG have, the numbers speak for themselves, and clearly Callaway want a piece of their pie. It's a bubble that is being created, and from a consumer standpoint, we all hope the bubble doesn't burst. We all talk of choice, and that's good. But the last thing I want to see, when I walk into a retailer, is two OEM's stock from wall to wall. Purely because the other manufacturers are squeezed into corners, or worse still, not at all. That's the downside danger. I hope this doesn't happen, as this affects the consumers choice ultimately. I don't see this happening long term, because as I said in a previous post, retailers become wise to this and good retailers will listen to their consumers need for choice, and if it means retailers are left with Cally/TM stock laying dormant on their shop floors, purely because of volume, then they will simply adjust their orders next year from those companies downwards.

I personally have owned a Golf business in the UK, and we did very well for a few years. But from a Consumers' point of view, I certainly would never buy anything from Cally/TM at launch, not when I know prices on the shop floor will plummet in a few months. The product is great, can't argue with that. But why would I want to spend $399 on a new Driver in January, when I can get it for $249 in May/June. Makes no financial sense to me. But I do understand anyone who wants the new gear asap. If they have money to burn like that, I take my hat off to them, it's totally their choice at the end of the day.

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[quote name='DeepSixer' timestamp='1384714363' post='8162510']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384712528' post='8162394']
I keep hearing something about a new Fubuki ZT shaft that will be in Cally's next flagship driver. Anyone else know anything about this shaft?
[/quote]

Replacement for the fubuki tour I believe
[/quote]

I guess this shaft will be new for 2014 as well?

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Ever year this thread gets created with a different driver but the fact is cor and size are maxed and the only thing left to due is gimmicky weight gadgets or paint colors.

Carry on with your salivation :)

The funny thing is all it takes is one person to start the hype machine and it goes crazy :)

This driver won't be any better than anything else and will be replaced by something else within 6 months.



TM Sim D-Type Tour AD IZ 7s
Mavrik SZ 16.5 Tour AD DI 7s
Cleveland Hibore Xli 3,4,5
TaylorMade P790 6-AW
TM Tour MG Raw 54/58
Evnroll ER-1.2

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I'm very curious about how heavy the weights will be. Also about the total head weight. It takes a lot of weight to move COG to see much difference.

Ping G400 LST HZRDUS Black tipped .5 9'
Taylormade M1 (2016) 15 Fubuki Z S
Rocketballz 19' ATX Green S
X2Hot 22' ATX Green S
Callaway Apex Pro (2014) C-tapers S
Mackdaddy 2's 52 and 58 C-Tapers R
James Ingles Scratch Handmande

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[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384720349' post='8162862']
[quote name='DeepSixer' timestamp='1384714363' post='8162510']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384712528' post='8162394']
I keep hearing something about a new Fubuki ZT shaft that will be in Cally's next flagship driver. Anyone else know anything about this shaft?
[/quote]

Replacement for the fubuki tour I believe
[/quote]

I guess this shaft will be new for 2014 as well?
[/quote]

Yeah, see here for more info: http://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2013/10/08/mitsubishi-rayon-new-shafts.html

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[quote name='DeepSixer' timestamp='1384723041' post='8163062']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384720349' post='8162862']
[quote name='DeepSixer' timestamp='1384714363' post='8162510']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384712528' post='8162394']
I keep hearing something about a new Fubuki ZT shaft that will be in Cally's next flagship driver. Anyone else know anything about this shaft?
[/quote]

Replacement for the fubuki tour I believe
[/quote]

I guess this shaft will be new for 2014 as well?
[/quote]

Yeah, see here for more info: http://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2013/10/08/mitsubishi-rayon-new-shafts.html
[/quote]

Thanks for the link!!!

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[quote name='Anser' timestamp='1384721814' post='8162968']
Ever year this thread gets created with a different driver but the fact is cor and size are maxed and the only thing left to due is gimmicky weight gadgets or paint colors.

Carry on with your salivation :)

The funny thing is all it takes is one person to start the hype machine and it goes crazy :)

This driver won't be any better than anything else and will be replaced by something else within 6 months.
[/quote]

You obviously haven't seen the driver yet...

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[quote name='ZJohnson' timestamp='1384724099' post='8163134']
[quote name='Anser' timestamp='1384721814' post='8162968']
Ever year this thread gets created with a different driver but the fact is cor and size are maxed and the only thing left to due is gimmicky weight gadgets or paint colors.

Carry on with your salivation :)

The funny thing is all it takes is one person to start the hype machine and it goes crazy :)

This driver won't be any better than anything else and will be replaced by something else within 6 months.
[/quote]



You obviously haven't seen the driver yet...
[/quote]

Or hit it like you did:). You lucky dog!!!!

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[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1384724179' post='8163136']
[quote name='ZJohnson' timestamp='1384724099' post='8163134']
[quote name='Anser' timestamp='1384721814' post='8162968']
Ever year this thread gets created with a different driver but the fact is cor and size are maxed and the only thing left to due is gimmicky weight gadgets or paint colors.

Carry on with your salivation :)

The funny thing is all it takes is one person to start the hype machine and it goes crazy :)

This driver won't be any better than anything else and will be replaced by something else within 6 months.
[/quote]



You obviously haven't seen the driver yet...
[/quote]

Or hit it like you did:). You lucky dog!!!!
[/quote]

Which is far more important of course. So is this thing streets ahead of anything on the market atm? If so, I just wonder how. for those that have hit it?

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      Odyssey/Toulon Atlanta putter - 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
      Cameron putters - 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
      Patrick Reed testing TPT shafts 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
       
       
      • 54 replies
    • 2021 Players - discussion and links
      Please post any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Players - Monday #1
      2021 Players - Monday #2
      2021 Players - Monday #3
      2021 Players - Monday #4
      2021 Players - Tuesday #1
      2021 Players - Tuesday #2
      2021 Players - Tuesday #3
      2021 Players - Tuesday #4
      2021 Players - Tuesday #5
      2021 Players - Tuesday #6
       
       

       
      Maverick McNealy's custom 1 of 1 Callaway Apex MB irons - 2021 Players
      Adam Long's Cameron T-5 proto - 2021 Players
      Abraham Ancer's custom Muira irons and custom MMT shafts - 2021 Players
      Bettinardi putters & cover - 2021 Players
      Jon Rahm's bag - 2021 Players
      Xander Schauffele's bag - 2021 Players
      Sergio with a Cameron putter - 2021 Players
      Cameron T11 & 11.5 putters - 2021 Players
      Sergio Garcia's clubs - 2021 Players
      Scott Brown's Odyssey gamer - 2021 Players
       
       
       
      • 52 replies

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